Cold weather layering and all things related

Other provisions not covered above that may make survival easier if your life is tossed out of the norm. This section is for discussing everything from arc welders to underwear.

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Cold weather layering and all things related

Post by tinythief » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:40 am

This recent cold front has me thinking.

How would you deal with weather?

Suggested temperature is around 50F to 20F. Starting out with Jeans, t-shirt and regular boots. But not necessary to stick to suggested temperature.

+ How does one layer up in these times of cold and rain?
- On various budgets
- Shedding while sheltered (indoors/ in- vehicle/ at camp)
- Retaining shed items

+ How is movement affected when layered?
- While carrying out tasks
- Over terrain
- With loads ( backpack/fighting gear)
- With firearms (concealed carry/ long gun)


Free free to expend or include pictures.

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Re: Cold weather layering and all things related

Post by tinythief » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:41 am

I'll start.

General everyday wear for me is jeans, a t-shirt and a pair of boots. I dislike underarmour style base layers as I feel they are uncomfortable and the "mini-turtle neck" gets annoying.
I like to stay cool (pun intended), warm and stuffy environments gives me nausea and light headedness.

Around 60F to 50F's
- Is still somewhat comfortable as is. Depending on the wind, a hoodie or Carhett will be thrown on.
- Moving indoors, the hoodie is usually not shed. Sleeves are rolled till the elbow for better cooling. Carhett has to be unzipped.
- Working and heavy movement, second layer has to be removed. It gets too warm for me.

50F-40F's
-If not moving or working, this is around the sweet spot for a second lower layer.

40F- High 20F's
- Carhett goes over the hoodie, zipped up tight. Light gloves such as Mechanicx will work at this temperature. Double socks may be a possibility.
- Driving ( 30Fs. Traveling speed tops at 70mph. Jeep topless/windowless/doorless/ no heater. Don't ask :crazy: ) Both the hoodie and Carhett on. T-shirt tucked in for better heat retention. A condor multi-wrap to keep wind out of the ears and face. A shemagh or scarf would have worked better.
- Both gloves and socks have to be dried when possible as I have sweaty palms/feet.
- Moving indoors, Carhett gets removed, hard to retain it as it usually gets "borrowed".
- Movement ( walk - fast movement. Climbing rocks and general bouncing around with a DSLR camera taking pictures offroad) Down to the hoodie, sleeves rolled. Majority of body heat is retained by the hoodie.
- Mechanicx gloves help keep the fingers warm and safe while grabbing rocks/trees.
- Work ( Low 30F. Digging up a septic tank to get it pumped) Ditched Carhett and hoodie. Gloves also get in the way. Body generated enough heat to stay warm in low winds, could not stop for more than 5 mins.
- Work ( High 20F, no wind. Great tree cover. Setting up tent and gathering firewood from downed trees and branches.) Carhett gets removed. Hoodie with sleeves rolled with surffice but kept down with gloves worn. This was done to keep scratches to a minimum. Got somewhat warmer and comfortable when limbing branches with a knife. Dragging branches and logs did not keep body temperatures up as well as limbing.

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Re: Cold weather layering and all things related

Post by Mikeyboy » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:38 am

tinythief wrote:This recent cold front has me thinking.

How would you deal with weather?

Suggested temperature is around 50F to 20F. Starting out with Jeans, t-shirt and regular boots. But not necessary to stick to suggested temperature.

+ How does one layer up in these times of cold and rain?
- On various budgets
- Shedding while sheltered (indoors/ in- vehicle/ at camp)
- Retaining shed items

+ How is movement affected when layered?
- While carrying out tasks
- Over terrain
- With loads ( backpack/fighting gear)
- With firearms (concealed carry/ long gun)


Free free to expend or include pictures.
You southern/warm weather guys crack me up.

I am from PA so 50 degrees I'm still wearing a just a T-shirt and jeans, and just barely considering a light jacket. I have been swimming in a pool in Los Angeles at 65F while locals don winter jackets. On the flip side heat over 95F degrees makes me melt. I don't know how you guys walk around outside on a regular basis when 100.

That said look into poly base layer. They breathe and keep you warm and are very thin. It also dries fast in case you get wet. Its weird I can wear a poly bottoms and jeans down to Zero , yet be just slightly warm at room temp.

Fleece keeps you warm but breathes. Fleece also dries fast, and beads light rain but not very waterproof in a downpour. Plain Fleece is not wind resistant and will leak in cold, hard wind though, so you need a wind breaker on top in cold windy days. If I am in the outdoors hiking and camping that would my rain gear. Most winter coats are basically a waterproof "shell" and a warm insulation layer underneath. Most rain gear either breathes slightly, or does not breathe at all like a trash bag. With winter jackets or outer layers you have hard shells which are close to what most rain gear is made out of and soft shells which is a weird softer Fleece/hard shell hybrid outer layer that breathes better than a hard shell. Having a soft shell jacket is like a jack of all trades but a master of none. Unless you pay big bucks, most soft shells are only good in the rain for so long, eventually the water stops beading off and starts soaking in, but we are talking all day heavy downpour rain. Soft shells do breath a bit better than hard shells and are quieter when you move around. You want to be able to vent some heat. If you get too hot you sweat. When you sweat a lot you get wet, cold and wet is not good.

So for me just for casual wear its the following.

Jeans and T shirt down to 70
Add a long sleeve shirt, with a T shirt underneath down to 60
Add a Soft shell jacket to 40 or add a fleece down to 40 and add a rain jacket/wind breaker in heavy rain or wind.
From 30 to 0 if I plan to be out all day a poly base layer would go under the pants. Also this is when the legit "winter jacket" hat and gloves comes out or I would start layering if I didn't have a winter jacket with me

Here is a list of gear for an AT thru hiker. Its what my outdoors hiking system and BOB clothing is based on. In that case I would work it like this.

http://www.backpacker.com/november_08_p ... cles/12659" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image

So if I want a outdoor clothing system that can cover me from 100 to 0 I would get

A Poly T shirt or two
Hiking pants and shorts or 2 pair of zipoffs. Avoid Jeans or cotton.
A lightweight Base Layer
A Midweight Base layer
A fleece jacket
A lightweight "puffer" jacket
Rain jacket and pants
Wool socks - 2 Pair of lightweights, 2 pair of warmer thicker sock
A light fleece beanie and a heavy fleece hood balaclava
Gloves - I don't have the perfect system tested yet, but the plan for me is a pair of lightweight water resistant gloves and a pair of heavyweight glove/mittens where you can pop off the mitten part to expose you fingers for shooting and doing things. The PITA is finding the perfect lightweight gloves that have the dexterity of Mechanix gloves, but do not soak up water like a sponge when wet, and provide just basic protection while breathing and not making your hands sweat.

With all that on and layered up I could face standing still outside all day in zero degrees with no problems. Basically you can remove and add layers depending on the temps and your activity level.

The funny thing is, there are a lot of places to get this gear. You can get all top of the line stuff and spend a lot of money, or you can get everything for real cheap at Walmart, Target and outlet stores. Just remember to stick with Poly, wool, Nylon and avoid cotton. Cotton kills.

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Re: Cold weather layering and all things related

Post by Boondock » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:41 pm

Rock6 had a nice discussion on the topic:

http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 4&t=110263

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Re: Cold weather layering and all things related

Post by Crimson Phoenix » Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:18 pm

I live in South Texas and also work in walk-in coolers and freezers on a frequent basis. I wear regular black slacks at work with regular cotton boot socks and thorlos boot socks over those (I work on concrete all day, so they're more for the cushion and moisture wicking than insulation) with my regular boots. I also wear grid-fleece long underwear and a long sleeve t-shirt under my work uniform or my street clothes on particularly cold days and a zippered fleece jacket. If it's colder than 50F, I'll put on a fleece-lined softshell jacket which usually does me until it gets below 20F. I wear a wool watch cap as needed. I tend to have the habit of pushing the sleeves up and unzipping the fleece jacket as it warms up, then just tying it around my waist when it gets too warm. I work until late evening, so it's usually cooled down by then and I don't like walking back to the coat hooks in the stockroom to get to something. In the rare times I'm outside in temps below the 30s where I'll spend most of my time outside, especially if the weather is misty or somewhat rainy, I'll take out my field jacket with liner. I rarely encounter temperatures below 15F that aren't artificial or protracted. The walk-in freezers at my job are usually kept around -15-20F, but you don't spend more than 10-15 minutes in there unless you're rebuilding pallets of frozen goods.

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Re: Cold weather layering and all things related

Post by buck85 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:10 pm

good read!!!!
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Re: Cold weather layering and all things related

Post by Woods Walker » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:19 pm

tinythief wrote:This recent cold front has me thinking.

How would you deal with weather?

Suggested temperature is around 50F to 20F. Starting out with Jeans, t-shirt
Maybe considering starting out differently. Rain with cooler temps aren't friendly towards cotton jeans and t-shirts. The pants will wick water nearly to the belt and the t-shirt will get wet and stay that way. For street clothes sure as your exposure is generally limited. But if yea can't get out of the cold rain you will be in trouble.
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Re: Cold weather layering and all things related

Post by Dragon80 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:18 pm

tinythief wrote:This recent cold front has me thinking.

How would you deal with weather?

Suggested temperature is around 50F to 20F. Starting out with Jeans, t-shirt and regular boots. But not necessary to stick to suggested temperature.

+ How does one layer up in these times of cold and rain?
For rain, the smallest and simplest method is the $.99 ponchos you can buy at the Dollar Store or Wal-Mart. If you want dedicated rain gear, go for it but try to get your jacket with armpit vents/zippers. I try to keep my layers lightweight, synthetic, and form fitting.
- On various budgets
Most of my layering is very low budget and I've gotten a lot of it at TJ Maxx or Marshalls at the end of fall and through winter for VERY cheap. Also use Amazon.
- Shedding while sheltered (indoors/ in- vehicle/ at camp)
I like zippered layers so that shedding them is easier than pulling them over my head.
- Retaining shed items
Gotta have a place to put them or hold them. During cold months I keep a spam drawstring backpack in my car filled with extra layers. I can always take it with me if I have to abandon my car and carry it on my front or attach it to my bag via carabiner.

+ How is movement affected when layered?
With my layers, movement isn't affected hardly at all.
- While carrying out tasks
Just fine.
- Over terrain
Because of the form fitting style I choose, terrain isn't a problem.
- With loads ( backpack/fighting gear)
Layer choices can help to wick sweat and keep you from overheating during extreme movement.
- With firearms (concealed carry/ long gun)
Another great benefit of the form fitting style.

Free free to expend or include pictures.
I don't have any pictures but I will explain a bit of what I have. With my base layers I prefer merino wool but I also have insulated poly layers. I prefer the merino over poly because poly makes me stink very quickly. I normally only do one single base layer and then my next is a form fitting grid fleece like the Under Armour 4.0 Baselayer Crew which only ran me $30 at TJ Maxx and is normally over $100. My layering of course depends on my activity level and other factors of weather. If it's bitter cold and windy I'll add a zip-up grid fleece shirt, my Arc'Teryx Atom LT jacket, and a shell like my Fjallraven goretex outer layer. If it's not that cold I can just do a soft shell, or if it's windy and not as cold I can eliminate a layer or two and just do the soft shell which is wind/water resistant. I always carry differing layers so that I have a choice and my system can adapt to what's going on around me. If I'm cold weather camping, I add poly fleece pants and a sweater to sleep in because I love the fleece feeling.

My lower body I always layer less. If it's cold then I've got merino base layer and pants. If it's VERY cold I can add another layer, poly if I'm moving a lot or fleece if I'm sitting/standing around. If it's snowing badly or windy I have Columbia Omni-Tech snowboarding pants that can go over anything else I put on.

For headgear I always have a baseball cap but if it's cold I have beanies to wear. Having a lightweight poly beanie is also great because I can layer it with another beanie if I'm sitting around doing nothing. A balaclava or some type of facial protection isn't to be taken for granted either. Luckily I've never had frost nip or bite on my face and I've spent a lot of time outdoors in winter.

Socks and gloves!!! Anytime I'm on my feet in boots I wear poly boot liners plus socks. I can go merino wool, blend, or poly socks depending on temps and even double up if it's cold enough. The poly liners save my feet from blisters all the time and I've got all of my friends hooked on em now. Gloves I have three pair. I have a cheap pair from TJ Maxx that are neoprene and lycra/rayon type stuff with tacky rubber grip surface, a Seirus All Weather Glove that's layered, and a cheap set of goretex and poly insulated mittens I got at Wal-Mart for like $6. The Mittens can go over either of the other glove providing serious warmth and protection. I spent a few hours out at around -16 F with 20-30mph winds a month ago with my cheap gloves and mitten combo and my hands never got cold at all.

Sorry for being so long winded, I am a bigtime layer person and a firm believer in new technology when it comes to clothing. My full layer system weighs less than a set of Carharts and allows me to be faster and more agile plus they're warmer. if anyone wants further detail into my layers I can get you proper info.
BOB also used for backpacking
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=114606

GHB dedicated thread in need of serious updating!!!
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=112108

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Re: Cold weather layering and all things related

Post by tinythief » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:54 am

Woods Walker wrote: Maybe considering starting out differently. Rain with cooler temps aren't friendly towards cotton jeans and t-shirts. The pants will wick water nearly to the belt and the t-shirt will get wet and stay that way. For street clothes sure as your exposure is generally limited. But if yea can't get out of the cold rain you will be in trouble.
understood, It made sense as a starting point as it is almost daily wear for me. Jeans also blend in easier. That said, I'm slowly learning to check the weather forecasts before I leave home and learning to layer the right way. From the time of the original post, I have gotten some wool socks and light base layers.

Dragon80 wrote: Socks and gloves!!! Anytime I'm on my feet in boots I wear poly boot liners plus socks. I can go merino wool, blend, or poly socks depending on temps and even double up if it's cold enough. The poly liners save my feet from blisters all the time and I've got all of my friends hooked on em now. Gloves I have three pair. I have a cheap pair from TJ Maxx that are neoprene and lycra/rayon type stuff with tacky rubber grip surface, a Seirus All Weather Glove that's layered, and a cheap set of goretex and poly insulated mittens I got at Wal-Mart for like $6. The Mittens can go over either of the other glove providing serious warmth and protection. I spent a few hours out at around -16 F with 20-30mph winds a month ago with my cheap gloves and mitten combo and my hands never got cold at all.
I presume the poly boot liners go over the feet then get covered with socks? Would the liners have issues with sweating feet?

Sorry for being so long winded, I am a bigtime layer person and a firm believer in new technology when it comes to clothing. My full layer system weighs less than a set of Carharts and allows me to be faster and more agile plus they're warmer. if anyone wants further detail into my layers I can get you proper info.
No sir, you and every one have been great help. Since starting this thread, my Carhart jacket has not seen the light of day. It might get passed on, seeing as I just grabbed a nice softshell for $50. I do have some observations and more questions.

1. Still on the lookout for an "all around" cold weather glove, but it seems impossible to find. I might be better off with a pair of "hard use (shooting/doing stupid stuff) gloves" and a pair of "my hands are nice and toasty but I still can use my pistol" gloves.

2. Pants! Basically something to replace jeans when I plan to go out in the cold/wet. As Mikeyboy posted earlier, I might be looking into a set of hiking pants. Being able to concealed carry IWB would be a great plus.

Thanks for all the advice and taking the time and patience to teach this young-ling

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Re: Cold weather layering and all things related

Post by 74 or more » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:43 am

tinythief wrote: 1. Still on the lookout for an "all around" cold weather glove, but it seems impossible to find. I might be better off with a pair of "hard use (shooting/doing stupid stuff) gloves" and a pair of "my hands are nice and toasty but I still can use my pistol" gloves.
My system for gloves is like so: Merino liners, rag wool finger mittens, and a pair of michanix.

tinythief wrote: 2. Pants! Basically something to replace jeans when I plan to go out in the cold/wet. As Mikeyboy posted earlier, I might be looking into a set of hiking pants. Being able to concealed carry IWB would be a great plus.
I'm love my 5.11 TacLite pro pants. I have 3 pairs. Just a suggestion.
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Re: Cold weather layering and all things related

Post by Dragon80 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:32 pm

tinythief wrote:
Woods Walker wrote: Maybe considering starting out differently. Rain with cooler temps aren't friendly towards cotton jeans and t-shirts. The pants will wick water nearly to the belt and the t-shirt will get wet and stay that way. For street clothes sure as your exposure is generally limited. But if yea can't get out of the cold rain you will be in trouble.
understood, It made sense as a starting point as it is almost daily wear for me. Jeans also blend in easier. That said, I'm slowly learning to check the weather forecasts before I leave home and learning to layer the right way. From the time of the original post, I have gotten some wool socks and light base layers.

Dragon80 wrote: Socks and gloves!!! Anytime I'm on my feet in boots I wear poly boot liners plus socks. I can go merino wool, blend, or poly socks depending on temps and even double up if it's cold enough. The poly liners save my feet from blisters all the time and I've got all of my friends hooked on em now. Gloves I have three pair. I have a cheap pair from TJ Maxx that are neoprene and lycra/rayon type stuff with tacky rubber grip surface, a Seirus All Weather Glove that's layered, and a cheap set of goretex and poly insulated mittens I got at Wal-Mart for like $6. The Mittens can go over either of the other glove providing serious warmth and protection. I spent a few hours out at around -16 F with 20-30mph winds a month ago with my cheap gloves and mitten combo and my hands never got cold at all.
I presume the poly boot liners go over the feet then get covered with socks? Would the liners have issues with sweating feet?

Sorry for being so long winded, I am a bigtime layer person and a firm believer in new technology when it comes to clothing. My full layer system weighs less than a set of Carharts and allows me to be faster and more agile plus they're warmer. if anyone wants further detail into my layers I can get you proper info.
No sir, you and every one have been great help. Since starting this thread, my Carhart jacket has not seen the light of day. It might get passed on, seeing as I just grabbed a nice softshell for $50. I do have some observations and more questions.

1. Still on the lookout for an "all around" cold weather glove, but it seems impossible to find. I might be better off with a pair of "hard use (shooting/doing stupid stuff) gloves" and a pair of "my hands are nice and toasty but I still can use my pistol" gloves.

2. Pants! Basically something to replace jeans when I plan to go out in the cold/wet. As Mikeyboy posted earlier, I might be looking into a set of hiking pants. Being able to concealed carry IWB would be a great plus.

Thanks for all the advice and taking the time and patience to teach this young-ling

Yes the poly liners go on the feet first and reduce the overall friction on your skin. They wick sweat away so that really isn't an issue. My feet sweat no matter what I wear on them so I can't really say if they make it better or worse.

On the gloves, I looked for some of the same things when choosing. The cheapo gloves I have are Head brand and they have a rubber tacky stuff on the palm and fingers that allows me to still use my pistol while wearing them. They're not super warm but that's why I've got big mittens, to put over any other gloves I have on. I've only bought one pair of gloves marketed toward being an "all around" glove and those are m Seirus'. They're great but the slick gripping surface makes most tasks difficult and others impossible. Unfortunately I don't think there's a glove that can do everything or even close to it.

I love tactical and hiking style of pants because most of them have a gusseted crotch allowing me a larger range of motion. There's nothing I hate worse than trying to climb over something and getting stuck because my pants won't allow it, or ripping the crotch in half as I've done several times before. I'm not super picky on pants, my current heavy wear pants are from LA Police Gear called the Operator Tactical pants. Got them on sale for like $13 per pair and they've held up well so far.

No problems here, clothing is something I don't skimp on as weather can be very unpredictable here in Indiana so I've learned to have what I need.
BOB also used for backpacking
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=114606

GHB dedicated thread in need of serious updating!!!
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=112108

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Re: Cold weather layering and all things related

Post by manowar1313 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:03 pm

As a college student I typically ride my motorcycle everywhere, so these recommendations have been tested in 20 degrees with a 60 mph wind chill. I try and only wear clothing that fits tight enough not to be tugged by the wind but not restrict motion.
Generally for my legs I start with a pair of underwear, on top of those I put some Fruit of the Loom long underwear a pair of thin ankle socks and pull a pair of insulated socks over them. Next come whatever pants I am wearing for the day. I top this off with a pair of thin snow pants and boots.

On my top half I start with a long sleeve tee, then a work shirt, possibly a hoodie depending on the outside temperature, and finally my leather jacket. My jacket is actually pretty thin and mostly provides wind proofing, I prefer a light jacket that I can layer under versus a heavier jacket. I wrap my neck with a scarf and cover my hands with a pair of long wool gloves topped with a pair of long moose leather gloves, all of this tucks into my coat. I always wear my helmet with a beanie under it or Tractor Supply hat with a beanie rolled up on the ears.

When I retreat indoors I generally switch to tennis shoe and remove my snow pants and insulated socks. I drop my coat, hoodie, scarf, gloves, and hat. I either keep these in a bag or in my locker at work.


I don't typically carry a gun on my bike but my 35lb back pack and laptop and even with these I really don't find my mobility limited, I can still run the block from my bike to class in under one bell. The bulk of my gloves do make it harder to do finer tasks like hitting my horn or giving someone the finger but really don't affect my ability to ride. I don't find myself being really slowed by my set up, I can still walk around in it and not tire out to quickly, the big thing is I can comfortably sit in the wind for 30-45minutes and not die of exposure.
Again this is what I wear on a daily basis, hope that helps.

Image

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Last edited by manowar1313 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cold weather layering and all things related

Post by bacpacjac » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:45 pm

Our thermometers came up to that range at the end of last week. (Didn't last long though, we're back in the deep freeze this week, with temps in the double digits before the wind.) When we hit about 20F (-6C) on Thursday, I saw a teenager walking home in his shorts. We Canuckians tend to be a little more hardy when it comes to cold, but teenagers are in their own world. ;)

Personally, once we start getting into this the OP temp range in the fall, usually around Octoberish, hats/mitts/thick socks become EDC, my long johns tops and bottoms go on, and I pretty much live in them until June. Everything else gets layered on top. When I saw said teenager, I was in my Jeep wearing: underwear & bra & merino hiking socks, merino long unders (top & bottom), cotton t-shirt (work), BDU-style pants, a fleece jacket, down vest and winter hat & mitts & winter boots. My shell & lined fleece jacket were beside me, after having been worn when I went for a hike. I changed my out of my fleece jacket and into my lined-fleece anorak for the hike. I got a bit sweaty while I was hiking though, so I had my pit zips open while I hiked and took the shell off completely when I stopped for a break so I could de-sweat. I also bring a pair of light rain pants, for hiking in the cold and wet, but it was just cold last week so they got no action.
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