What scout belt to get for a 26" waist

[GOODdaysir]

I've been looking around and could not find any ALICE belt systems, do you guys have a place where you buy them?

[TacAir]

GUNNYS SURPLUS has ALICE parts
http://www.gunnyssurplus.com/

Spcifically
http://www.gunnyssurplus.com/field-equipment.html

[GOODdaysir]

Sweet! But is there a full system?

[Jeriah]

Sweet! But is there a full system?

Depends what parts you want, but yeah, lots of people sell assembled kits.

It's easy to find a belt and a Y-harness on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=alice+harness

Some people prefer the H-harness, but I don't run into them as often used; USCAV has 'em new though: http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?p ... &TabID=548

US Cav has all the other stuff you need, too: canteens + covers, mag pouches, etc. It's going to cost more if you're buying it new like that, though. If you have a local army-navy you can find 'em used for super cheap, but condition may become an issue. I've typically done everything on eBay.

The traditional setup is belt, suspenders, buttpack, 1 canteen, 1 shovel, and 2 3x30 mag pouches, plus a first aid dressing on your left suspender. You can sometimes find kits set up like this for sale, but usually you'll just buy the components and connect 'em. You may choose to add or subtract things: I prefer 2 canteens, but no shovel, for example.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Is it for style, or do you want a comfortable usable belt and harness/chest rig?

'Cuz compared to anything else on the market, ALICE rigs suck. I'm actually looking at trying a $10 NCstar vest rig and turning it into a woodsbummin' rig, but for a quality battle rig, or if you want something that will last, look into sigboy's scout belt thread.

[GOODdaysir]

Oh. I was looking at it for a woodsbumming belt

[Doctorr Fabulous]

If you don't mind spending a bit, something like an ATS or even a BLACKHAWK! padded belt is soooooooooooooooooooooooo much more comfortable. I'm looking at the cheapo vest because I have a relative who can get me a couple for less than shipping on an ATS belt would cost, and I don't mind doing so stitching and alteration to make it into what I want. I figur eif it doesn't work out, it becomes a cheap halloween/Con costume, and I start on an ATS rig with their H or X harness.

[sigboy40]

ALICE is very cost effective for a woods bumming belt, and attracts very little attention.

That being said, if money wasnt a factor, I would jump into a ATS padded belt, or a HSGI belt, or the Viking Tactics Brokos Belt. As Doc Torr said, they are more comfortable and just as modular.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

ALICE gear is solid, but it's not the best. Unless you mod it. I just wish there was a way to mod an ALICE H rig to run my MOLLE gear. And to not rub as badly.

[GOODdaysir]

ALICE gear is solid, but it's not the best. Unless you mod it. I just wish there was a way to mod an ALICE H rig to run my MOLLE gear. And to not rub as badly.

What exactly is the problem with ALICE gear?

[sigboy40]

The belt is too stiff
The rig does not stay in position
The suspenders are not comfortable and do not ergonomically disperse the load
Pouch selection is limited
Keeper system is flawed
Unit is heavy and over engineered with no real benefit for the extra weight

Want me to keep going?

[Towanda]

Does a Y-harness attach to an ALICE padded belt, or does some kind of connection have to be improvised?

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Does a Y-harness attach to an ALICE padded belt, or does some kind of connection have to be improvised?

For the Y harness and belt to attach, you have to disassemble he belt and the reassemble it. The full kit together is referred to as "Deuce gear" or "782 gear" for the form that was used to requisition it, Form 782. A google search can show you the specifics, and there were a couple variances between the metal and plastic belt models.

Short answer, they are designed to attach. In boot camp, we used them to carry 6 rifle mags, 2 canteens, a poncho (rolled up and banded to the back of the belt) and two magazine pouches. They can take the weight, but the word comfort never enters into the equation.

[Towanda]

Thanks, Doc Torr.

/begin minor thread hijack
A friend wants a harness for her drum (djembe, not firearm accessory) that puts most of the weight around her waist instead of on her shoulders. I'm looking at ways to modify padded backpack hip belts and load-bearing suspenders to suit her requirements. In this case, the suspenders would be more for stability than anything else. I'll keep Googling and sketching.
/end minor thread hijack

[GOODdaysir]

Well, if not alice then what? I have the unusual problem of having a 26" waist and absolutely none of the nice Molle rigs fit me...

[omega_man]

The belt is too stiff
The rig does not stay in position
The suspenders are not comfortable and do not ergonomically disperse the load
Pouch selection is limited
Keeper system is flawed
Unit is heavy and over engineered with no real benefit for the extra weight

Want me to keep going?

Most of this is not entirely correct.

I wore a Y-harness/Alice rig during 7 months of combat in Ramadi in 2005. I continued to wear it during a MEUSOC deployment in SE Asian jungles. It has a lot going for it, especially for the price. The only reason I got into "high-speed" gear is because that became more acceptable by the powers-that-be (or were, don't know anymore). AKFTW has a good example of an Alice belt rig on the "Ultimate" belt thread.

BTW, the belt is suppossed to be stiff and the suspenders are way comfy as long as the belt weight is evenly dispersed. Guess what? You can also use Malice clips to snugly attach pouches. I've found that a loose fitting Alice belt, with properly distributed weight/pouches, with Y-suspenders is a great system (psst, another thing, you can unbuckle the shit and lay prone).

I have nothing against the newer stuff, I have a shit-ton myself and use it; but, I cannot let Sigboy's statement (and I have nothing but respect for you) go unchallenged. I've been in more than a few fire-fights wearing Alice gear (some down to my last mag) and I'm still here.

I should start a new thread: An Ode to Alice

[Boondock]

I also liked the old ALICE rig. It took a few years of tinkering to get my LBE just right, but once I did I loved the heck out of it.

[sigboy40]

Omega_man maligns sigboy and his opinion.....

Why sir, I should be offended! I never said using an ALICE rig would get you killed!
/fake outrage

I too was also issued the old LBE rig when I did my stint as an Infantry soldier. You think I mod my gear now? You should have seen it than!

The old rig did have advantages. I used to love the fact that I could buckle a 4" extension into it and let it hang by the suspenders. Thats harder to do with a MOLLE belt. If I would even use a ALICE rig over some of the other crap thats out there. But......I would not trade my Brokos belt for an ALICE web belt. That was actually the point I was trying to make.

[RickOShea]

Well, if not alice then what? I have the unusual problem of having a 26" waist and absolutely none of the nice Molle rigs fit me...

The "small" size padded ones should fit you.

When they describe the end-to-end length, you have to keep in mind that the padding makes for extra total length (like around 4" or 5" more than your actual waist size).

[BullOnParade]

Well, if not alice then what? I have the unusual problem of having a 26" waist and absolutely none of the nice Molle rigs fit me...

The "small" size padded ones should fit you.

When they describe the end-to-end length, you have to keep in mind that the padding makes for extra total length (like around 4" or 5" more than your actual waist size).

Looking at the Condor Battle Belt (What I have, and a good starting point for the average person), Small (37"), approx. waist size: 30 - 34. With that in mind, mine is a Medium (40"), approx. waist size: 36 - 40, but my pants are 32-34. I vote a small would fit you well.

Condor Battle Belt

[TacAir]

Does a Y-harness attach to an ALICE padded belt, or does some kind of connection have to be improvised?

For the Y harness and belt to attach, you have to disassemble he belt and the reassemble it. The full kit together is referred to as "Deuce gear" or "782 gear" for the form that was used to requisition it, Form 782. A google search can show you the specifics, and there were a couple variances between the metal and plastic belt models.

Short answer, they are designed to attach. In boot camp, we used them to carry 6 rifle mags, 2 canteens, a poncho (rolled up and banded to the back of the belt) and two magazine pouches. They can take the weight, but the word comfort never enters into the equation.

If I may



Lots of folks attached the Y or H harness to the butt pack (as designed) then a pair of canteens, then a pair of mag pouches - as shown. The area 'in front' is blank, to better allow you to hug Mother Earth when called for. '
Hook your poncho and FAK on the butt pack and GTG.
The one thing often overlooked about the ALICE gear is that it is backward comparable to a lot of the gear issued as far back as the turn of the last century.
For example - the canteen carrier and pistol mag carrier will work with the ALICE belt.




There is better, if you have the dough.

There are alternatives to mil-spec gear as well


Hot Shot field gear is damn good field gear, just a bit bright in color


and the issue USFS field gear isn't all bad


Good luck.

[RickOShea]

Well, if not alice then what? I have the unusual problem of having a 26" waist and absolutely none of the nice Molle rigs fit me...

The "small" size padded ones should fit you.

When they describe the end-to-end length, you have to keep in mind that the padding makes for extra total length (like around 4" or 5" more than your actual waist size).

Looking at the Condor Battle Belt (What I have, and a good starting point for the average person), Small (37"), approx. waist size: 30 - 34. With that in mind, mine is a Medium (40"), approx. waist size: 36 - 40, but my pants are 32-34. I vote a small would fit you well.

Condor Battle Belt

I have a couple of the HSGI Suregrips in "large" size (41.5" end-to-end) and I wear a 36-38. I had to let the inner belt out a couple of inches.

I suppose the OP could find whatever type of duty belt that will fit him, then throw something like a TT duty belt pad on it:

http://www.tacticaltailor.com/accessories/belts/duty-belt-pad

[omega_man]

Omega_man maligns sigboy and his opinion.....

Why sir, I should be offended! I never said using an ALICE rig would get you killed!
/fake outrage

I too was also issued the old LBE rig when I did my stint as an Infantry soldier. You think I mod my gear now? You should have seen it than!

The old rig did have advantages. I used to love the fact that I could buckle a 4" extension into it and let it hang by the suspenders. Thats harder to do with a MOLLE belt. If I would even use a ALICE rig over some of the other crap thats out there. But......I would not trade my Brokos belt for an ALICE web belt. That was actually the point I was trying to make.

First off, to "malign" (according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary) as a verb is, "to utter unjuriously misleading or false reports about". None of which I did. I also mentioned (and have posted numerous pics) my current set-up (which is quite hi-speed and costly). None-the-less, nothing previously mentioned maligns Alice gear as second rate gear, especially if on a budget. If my personal first-hand accounts of the effectiveness of Alice gear in combat does not suffice as a reasonable validation there-of, then I don't know what else to say. It was just a fucking opinion, and a well earned one that. Furthermore, at no point did I marginalize your opinion. You listed bullet points as though they were facts, and I simply disagreed. Putting a holster, knife, canteen, and E&E gear on a VTAC belt and starting a thread about it on a fictional monster-themed web site doesn't make anyone an expert on belts. Including myself.

BTW; I never said that you said that Alice would get you killed (in response to your first snarky and ill-informed statement).

[AKFTW]

I have a similar "problem" to the OP- having a 28" waist. I have found that for skinny fuckers like us, you just don't have enough real-estate to do a full "belt rig" and carry all the crap you need. Maybe for just a woods-walking belt, but certainly not for a "battle belt". I would go with the ALICE belt, and then put MOLLE pouches on it with Short Malice Clips. Much better than the stupid metal keepers, quieter, lighter, more comfortable, and it allows you to use whatever pouches you want on it. See my belt on the bottom of the picture for an example: