Tomahawks

[foxx]

That's a perfect example of how it can be used in a non-lethal fashion.

The guy swinging the 'hawk was aiming for the head.

You are correct StormCrow! He was aiming for his head. Do you think the bad guy would survive a blow to the head from the Winkler Sayoc, or just be drain bramaged?

[Storm Crow]

Yep, the basic rundown of the story was that during a raid on a drug house in Mexico, one of the baddies tried to wrestle the shotgun away from one of the officers. Said officer tried to retain the shotgun with one hand while drawing his sidearm. Said sidearm was in a new holster that was too tight and could not be drawn out. Another agent (who has posted on ZS before) was unable to shoot the baddie for the possibility of killing his buddy accidentally. So he popped his Winkler 'hawk from its holster and hit the baddie, dropping him pretty instantaneously and ending the fight. It had been aimed at the head, but just hitting the shoulder took the baddie down, and the forward spike penetrated the Kevlar vest he was wearing with no problem.

Foxx - I think the baddie would have been all kinds of messily dead if the blow had struck the intended target. But as Phineas Gage showed, brain damage that you would think would be lethal isn't necessarily so.

[praharin]

That's a perfect example of how it can be used in a non-lethal fashion.

The guy swinging the 'hawk was aiming for the head.

You are correct StormCrow! He was aiming for his head. Do you think the bad guy would survive a blow to the head from the Winkler Sayoc, or just be drain bramaged?

No real way to tell. Brain injury is tricky like that. While I can say with almost certainty that he would be immediately incapacitated by any blow that penetrates to the brain, there is no real way to know what would be affected or how badly without actually seeing the wound. While we have a pretty good general idea of what goes on where in a healthy brain, there's no telling how trauma will change things in many cases.

[foxx]

Over in "Zombie Biology" the topic of the Zombie brain comes up. I've wondered what size tomahawk or spiked tomahawk it would take for the "one hit kill". I know there's lots of factors to consider in these matters, some fictional, some biological, some to do with the user of the Tomahawk and it's size. But, how does a future Zombie killer know what to buy today?

[praharin]

Over in "Zombie Biology" the topic of the Zombie brain comes up. I've wondered what size tomahawk or spiked tomahawk it would take for the "one hit kill". I know there's lots of factors to consider in these matters, some fictional, some biological, some to do with the user of the Tomahawk and it's size. But, how does a future Zombie killer know what to buy today?

Since anything regarding "Zombie Biology" is totally speculation at this point, buy what you want.

[Paul J]

@ turtlewolf, the lads who carry those on their fighting kit have a rather specific and unusual purpose for it, I was under the impression it was carried as a weapon or breaching tool , turns out i was wrong.

The guys at Sayoc designed the RnD hawk for fighting. The guys being issued them are getting trained by Sayoc Global in how to use them properly. Perhaps the guys using them have some special use for it, but I have a sinking feeling that "opsec" is why you aren't telling."



Sorry man I'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying, could you clarify? ETA< I don't know anything about the sayoc hawk, I am refering to the WK2 combat axe and the organization that uses them.

[Bunni]

Hello new to the ZS community. I write for other internet sources on zombies and survival. Couldn't resist this topic. I love both Axes and hawks.

A perfect fusion of useful as a weapon and a tool is the Norse or Danish style war axes. War axes are intended to be used in all aspects of a warriors life, from making ships and houses to the battlefield and duels. American Tomahawk Company and Coldsteel make a Norsehawk that is a little small and lighter than the historical counterpart, but it is by far my favorite axe they make. If you get the longest straight handle it is pretty much a functional war axe. The beard is more shallow than the brow which is a godsend for hooking and deflecting. The only misgivings of Coldsteel tomahawks I've found is the hickory handles need a lot of TLC to get the head to fit secure. I use a small screw under the poll to seat the head.

As a primary tool I went to Harbor freight and found a Felling and splitting double bit Axe. One side has a steeper slope and the other is hollow ground which leads to a thinner edge. Total price $35. Splitting wood with a tomahawk is labor intensive.

To save space in a pack I highly recommend removing the head and storing it in the pack. It will help deter rust and make storage of a bulky tool easier. In the case of long term migration keep the head but make a new handle using the tomahawk when you arrive at a destination that will require a long term presence. I keep a Norsehawk head and a Rifleman's head in belt pouches on some of my different load outs. I keep spare handles in the sleeping rolls for those load outs. It is a very PC and civil way to carry an axe in public.

[MaconCJ7]

The 'hawk has arrived!! A little delayed due to sending a snail mail check from other parts of the world, and Bill's busy schedule. Unfortunately, it didn't arrive while I was at home. It was a couple of days after I left. All well, I saw it on video and it's sexy. Expect a good review posted mid Julyish. Might be sooner, we'll see what the summer brings.

[Hanzo]

Love this guys hawks...don't know how functional they would be but the look badass

http://americankami.com/axe.html

[URBAN ASSAULT]

If I'm gonna spend a firearms-level amount of money of a Tomahawk, I think I want something that screams death and insanity is coming down if you fuck with me. Here's these from the same guy...



Completely impractical, but what the hell.

-urban

[foxx]

I got this in the mail a few weeks ago. So far I have only tested it on a thawed out Turkey breast. It's high speed, low drag for sure...A swing from the elbow sliced through the whole rib cage..
It's not for throwing, it may not kill Zombies with one swing, but it's a great hook, and the rear spike has lots of other uses.
The kydex sheath makes it quiet and quick for deployment in CQB situations.

[izzyscout21]

I got this in the mail a few weeks ago. So far I have only tested it on a thawed out Turkey breast. It's high speed, low drag for sure...A swing from the elbow sliced through the whole rib cage..
It's not for throwing, it may not kill Zombies with one swing, but it's a great hook, and the rear spike has lots of other uses.
The kydex sheath makes it quiet and quick for deployment in CQB situations.

Nice! I've been wanting one of those for a while now. Definitely a badass piece of kit.

[Bunni]

I love those table mats they are so cute. I like the ax a lot too.

[Code Injection]

This is the cold steel norse hawk i acquired recently. Nothin special, but i like it.

[ForgeCorvus]

Hows it cut?

[Bunni]

Cuts better than a typical hatchet. If you try chopping down a tree though it will stick every time once you get started because of the thin profile. For wood working chores it is very nice. The Spine will need a little work until it seats really well, just shave off the lip every time it develops one or put a layer or 2 of electrical tape under the head, to keep it from shaking loose.

[ineffableone]

Hello new to the ZS community. I write for other internet sources on zombies and survival. Couldn't resist this topic. I love both Axes and hawks.

A perfect fusion of useful as a weapon and a tool is the Norse or Danish style war axes. War axes are intended to be used in all aspects of a warriors life, from making ships and houses to the battlefield and duels. American Tomahawk Company and Coldsteel make a Norsehawk that is a little small and lighter than the historical counterpart, but it is by far my favorite axe they make. If you get the longest straight handle it is pretty much a functional war axe. The beard is more shallow than the brow which is a godsend for hooking and deflecting. The only misgivings of Coldsteel tomahawks I've found is the hickory handles need a lot of TLC to get the head to fit secure. I use a small screw under the poll to seat the head.

As a primary tool I went to Harbor freight and found a Felling and splitting double bit Axe. One side has a steeper slope and the other is hollow ground which leads to a thinner edge. Total price $35. Splitting wood with a tomahawk is labor intensive.

To save space in a pack I highly recommend removing the head and storing it in the pack. It will help deter rust and make storage of a bulky tool easier. In the case of long term migration keep the head but make a new handle using the tomahawk when you arrive at a destination that will require a long term presence. I keep a Norsehawk head and a Rifleman's head in belt pouches on some of my different load outs. I keep spare handles in the sleeping rolls for those load outs. It is a very PC and civil way to carry an axe in public.

I have a Wetterlings axe but no hawk, however I have used other people's hawks and have been considering getting a hawk recently.

One of the great thing about traditional tomahawks is the easy of rehafting, as mentioned you can just pack the head and craft your own handle when needed. Makes for a decent BOB or INCH axe for your pack. For this reason I tend to dislike the modern material "tactical" hawks. To me they loose the main plus for a hawk which is the simple round handle that can be easily crafted in the field and the ability to remove the head to make the hawk a multi use tool. It is this plus that made frontiersmen choose hawks over axes, and is a reason for people choosing them these days for camping instead of axes. Personally I like the geometry of a good axe, makes for a good splitting wedge, while a hawk geometry has poor ability for splitting. Both axes and hawks tend to chop and delimb well, it is the splitting that is the big difference in performance. Hawks get hung up on their eye while axes have the wedge to move the wood around their eye. Also weight of the axe head helps propel it through the wood, while hawk heads tend to be lighter for size than axe heads. Hawks however have that bonus of easy field repair for the handle and ability to remove the head for using it as other hand tools. For this reason I have debated getting a decent hawk to pack just the head in my INCH bag.

Hawks I have been looking at are
A Coal Creek forge http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blacksmith-Hand-Forged-Poll-Tomahawk-Axe-Hatchet-Camp-Tool-Collectors-Item-/230778965238?pt=Collectible_Knives&hash=item35bb7f8cf6

Craig Barr http://www.ebay.com/itm/Craig-Barr-Hand-Forged-5160-Hammer-Pole-Tomahawk-Head-16-/360451523163?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D360450157085%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7859215038342161044

JW Blacksmith http://www.ebay.com/itm/JW-BLACKSMITH-1060-HIGH-CARBON-STEEL-HAND-FORGED-WAR-AXE-POLE-TOMAHAWK-/160732427145?pt=Collectible_Knives&hash=item256c663389

Though, I have also considered going the cheaper route and getting a cold steel hawk and storing that head in my INCH bag.

Still I prefer my Wetterlings axe as a camping axe. I tend to like a good 24" handle vs the shorted hawk handles and the wedge axe blade vs the hawk thin blade.

However the hawk's ability for easy handle removal makes it also a multi function tool. removal of the hawk head can turn the hawk into many different tools. I have even seen them turned into an adze which can be a great useful tool but one you tend not to carry in a SHTF situation. This versatility with a hawk is something that makes them a great choice for a SHTF tool.

So to axe or hawk? Hard question, I honestly would want both, but if I had to choose just one, it depends on the situation. Longer term I think a hawk has the benefits of multi use and easy rehafting that would make me choose it. Shorter term I think my Wetterlings wins due to the better functionality of it for its intended purpose.

LOL, actually I think writing this post has actually convinced me to get a decent hawk soon, I think I will probably be picking up one the beginning of next month.

[ForgeCorvus]

Of the three that you just posted the Craig Barr has the best cross-section for a working axe.
Its more of a wedge then a blade and eye, if you get what I'm talking about

Whatever you end up with, post a review will you ?

[ineffableone]

Of the three that you just posted the Craig Barr has the best cross-section for a working axe.
Its more of a wedge then a blade and eye, if you get what I'm talking about

Whatever you end up with, post a review will you ?

Yep, that was part of what attracted me to the Craig Barr hawks, the better wedge shape of the heads. Not to mention he just makes high quality hawks. Each unique hand forged. Just sort of nice to have a one of a kind piece. Of course with his stuff for me it all depends on how high the auction price goes. I have bid on his hawks a couple times and been out bid at the last minute and more quite a few times I have seen his stuff sold at higher than I would have gone. Though there have been plenty of his hawks that sold at prices I would have paid, I just missed them. One of these days I will get one of his.

Coal Creek is my secondary choice but again pricey. I know someone who has bought from them and is a big hawk collector. He loved the Coal Creek stuff and had nothing but good praise for their work.

If I get out bid on a Craig Barr maybe I will pick up a Cold Steel until I can get one from Craig Barr. That way I would have a cheap one while I wait to get a better quality one. Honestly I sometimes hate the whole auction thing on ebay, you can't just pay what it is worth and get it, you have to try and stay on top of an item and try to not over pay but not get out bid. LOL

[Bunni]

I hope I don't get flamed for saying this:

Cheap tools are designed and made for people to misuse and treat like crap. Fine tools are made for specific purposes, and are so expensive they rarely get misused. So every time I need or want a tool, I ask myself "What is it supposed to be used for, and in what ways am I in all likely hood going to misuse it and not take care of it."

That being said I have a hammerhead stamped in 1964 I found in the woods sanded and got a shaft for. Its the only hammer I will ever own in my life I am sure. It cost me $2. I would not be sad if I lost it. Does the same job as one of those all metal $40 custom master carpentry hammers at home despot. Its rusty and ugly splattered with paint from an angry paint can and I couldn't care less because it still does the same job and does it well.

I know prepping becomes a collector's obsession. I'm in the same boat. I just want to remind you of priorities. I wish I could remember who said this. "Specialization brings us one step closer to becoming obsolete."

BTW I just picked up a pick/adz at good will for $.99. I took it home sanded and sharpened it(Carbide tip was a nightmare to sharpen with a hand stone) Splits a log better than the splitter maul we have in Wisconsin. Before you tell me its not the designed purpose, I know but reference the statement about misusing tools.

[Jeriah]

That being said I have a hammerhead stamped in 1964 I found in the woods sanded and got a shaft for. Its the only hammer I will ever own in my life I am sure. It cost me $2. I would not be sad if I lost it. Does the same job as one of those all metal $40 custom master carpentry hammers at home despot. Its rusty and ugly splattered with paint from an angry paint can and I couldn't care less because it still does the same job and does it well.

My favorite hammer is one I found, rusted and neglected, in the sand on the beach. Cleaned the rust off, painted the head black and coated it with poly, sanded, stained, and sealed the wood, and wrapped the grip in cord. It's great. Kept me from getting raped on the way home from school for two years in Baltimore, and still going strong.

[mk_ultra]

Never knew 6 foot plus gingers were such a hot commodity in B-more .

[foxx]

I know where you are comming from Bunni. That hammer from 64' is a good because it was properly forged. I'm sure there are plenty of great old tools out there that function very well, toss on a good handle, and it's good to go.
I know a CS Tomahawk can do the same chores that a much more expensive hawk can do. The big difference, to get a properly made, heat treated, properly ground and sharpened, and good haft, and maybe a useable sheath on a new forged hawk, well that's gonna cost at least $100. Think about the maker's labor, materials, tools, forge, shop, and the sheath, all that costs money, in today's market none the less.
After you train with a certain weapon, and get to try many types, you can understand what elements make one better. One aspect is in the feel, weight, balance, mass distribution, and the handle design/length. Another aspect is the geometry of the weapon, how it's design actually performs the tasks it was intended for, how well does it cut, puncture, or destroy. Handling is extremly important, how well it swings, changes directon, or stops can affect the outcome of a fight.
Maybe, for most people, there is an element of fantasy in the context of fighting, say after the PAW. Martial arts have been practiced during war and peace, for a long time, and will be for a long time to come.
Tomahawks are both tools and weapons(most of them) and when camping, a very important one at that. If your hammer breaks on the job, you can borrow, or go buy a new one. Most of us will not just find another forged hawk head in the forest, if you do take it home and fix it up.

[NamelessStain]

If I'm gonna spend a firearms-level amount of money of a Tomahawk, I think I want something that screams death and insanity is coming down if you fuck with me. Here's these from the same guy...



Completely impractical, but what the hell.

-urban

There's a Mr. Death here and he says he's come about the reaping?

Gotta love monty.

They look more like Kamas.