Bowmanship Thread

[northernxposure]

Howard was an anomaly.

FWIW, I may poke fun at you all across the sea and your obsession with the war bow, but it is a great piece of your history and I can understand why you choose to pursue it. I don't understand it's place in modern archery, but at the same time there's a great many things that we can do on this side of the pond that you don't have as much access too over there.

Archery, to me, is much like the Lexus moniker - the relentless pursuit of perfection (at least to the level that I can control it).

NXP

[Quietus]

The traditional bow's place in modern archery is the same as any other bow's.
It performs a task and does it well. simple as that.

Unlike more modern designs, it relies heavily on skill rather than mechanical aids. But at the end of the day, both do the same job.

Newer does not equal better.

[Ad'lan]

I know I'm being a dick, but I've actually got to agree with both of you. Nxp is correct, it's not yet a proper warbow weight, nor is it quite the technique I'd call proper, and if you need to do it with a 55lb bow, it's a little
Excessive. But without seeing it in person, I can't offer any major improvements (well, I could watch the video in depth, but I haven't the time really). I recommend the English warbow society, and keep practicing.

And to nxp, the warbow has the same place in archery as the American flatbow, or the hunting recurve. If the objective is get an arrow to the target, a compound is objectivley better. But if the objective is to hit the target, why don't we all get rifles?

Newer does and does not equal better. For different values of better.

[SavageArcher]

I'm making the transition to traditional archery. I've learned that my stance is more compressed for lack of a better term so my usual 31 inch draw length with a long ATA compound is closer to 29-291/2 inches with my recurves. Also learned that my 31" 340 spined carbon arrows work well enough with both in my 48# @ 30'' Howatt Hunter and my Bear Grizzly 50# @ 28". My biggest issue at the moment is maintaining my brace height since I have both bows strung with B-50 Flemish strings, they look nice but I'm constantly having to add twist to them as they stretch on me. After about 20-30 shots my bow starts getting noisy and my accuracy drops as my brace height lowers. I'll probably go back to an endless loop type string but since both bows are over 30 years old I stick with dacron instead of using Fast Flight strings.

[northernxposure]

I know I'm being a dick, but I've actually got to agree with both of you. Nxp is correct, it's not yet a proper warbow weight, nor is it quite the technique I'd call proper, and if you need to do it with a 55lb bow, it's a little
Excessive. But without seeing it in person, I can't offer any major improvements (well, I could watch the video in depth, but I haven't the time really). I recommend the English warbow society, and keep practicing.

And to nxp, the warbow has the same place in archery as the American flatbow, or the hunting recurve. If the objective is get an arrow to the target, a compound is objectivley better. But if the objective is to hit the target, why don't we all get rifles?

Newer does and does not equal better. For different values of better.

Get off the fence, damn you.

I'm just being insufferable. I know what both you and Quietus are saying, I do - and I do agree with both of you (even Quietus, though s/he is just as insufferable as myself). Tradition has it's place and meaning, but time and technology afford us the opportunity to continue that tradition with better materials and higher standards. I suppose I could drive to and from work with a steam powered tractor, but my Toyota gets me there just fine.

I like that last comment - Newer does and does not equal better; for different values of "better". I think that sums it up nicely.

I'm making the transition to traditional archery. I've learned that my stance is more compressed for lack of a better term so my usual 31 inch draw length with a long ATA compound is closer to 29-291/2 inches with my recurves. Also learned that my 31" 340 spined carbon arrows work well enough with both in my 48# @ 30'' Howatt Hunter and my Bear Grizzly 50# @ 28". My biggest issue at the moment is maintaining my brace height since I have both bows strung with B-50 Flemish strings, they look nice but I'm constantly having to add twist to them as they stretch on me. After about 20-30 shots my bow starts getting noisy and my accuracy drops as my brace height lowers. I'll probably go back to an endless loop type string but since both bows are over 30 years old I stick with dacron instead of using Fast Flight strings.

Instead of B50 (Dacron) switch to B55, it has similar characteristics to Dacron but has less issues with stretch. Otherwise you can pre-stretch them before shooting, or twist the bejezus out of them and let them settle in (if you're still adjusting your BH after 150+ shots, take a good look at that string - it shouldn't be stretching that much.)

Endless loop strings have their pluses and minuses - but work best for modern no-stretch fibers. If you're using Dacron or B55, a flemish twist is still the best option - IMO.

NXP

[Ad'lan]

Instead of B50 (Dacron) switch to B55, it has similar characteristics to Dacron but has less issues with stretch. Otherwise you can pre-stretch them before shooting, or twist the bejezus out of them and let them settle in (if you're still adjusting your BH after 150+ shots, take a good look at that string - it shouldn't be stretching that much.)

I agree, leave a string on to stretch for a few days, and that shoudl be enough, especially after a few score arrows.

[DunutDude67]

Hey I just had a random question, I shoot a 95lb long bow and it is awesome but I was wondering if the poundage will make the arrow splinter if it comes into contact with something as hard as a human skull.
Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[Ad'lan]

Hey I just had a random question, I shoot a 95lb long bow and it is awesome but I was wondering if the poundage will make the arrow splinter if it comes into contact with something as hard as a human skull.
Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Depends on the arrow, and how you construct it. I've had carbon arrows break at the nock when they've hit a hard object, but a skull should be fine.

What kind of arrow?

[Kissing-Tom]

Yes, really the best is, to ask the local archers near by you.
I build my own longbows and arrows, not laminated, traditionel wooden longbows. When I started with archery, I thougt:"Cool, medieval english warbows, 120 pounds, heavy bodkin,..yes!"
But then I want to pull a bow like these. I can´t. And I´m a treeworker in Bavaria/Germany(not someone of the Lumberjack-Guys ). I started in our local Archeryclub with Recurve-Bow and Carbon arrows with 35# (always the same spine is better, so you can see, the mistakes make the archer).
Now I´m shooting 8 years, and I´m going to learn more and more. My favourite bow in this time is a 45# Recurve-Hunting-Bow from Fred Bear with carbon express arrows. I love this bow. I have super results!

But for me, is to shoot the english warbow the king-class. But with this heavy bows its very hard to aim. And you must know so much about wood, spine, strings, technology and your own body. It isn´t easy.

a little bit epic :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsbp4w-4E68

[Ad'lan]

BigBowBrum is a top bloke and can be found at the EnglishWarbow Forums, or could. I've not been there for a while.

[Kissing-Tom]

I know some of his videos on youtube. It´s amazing. Anytime I must travel to Britain and buy an original yewwarbow.
I never build a bow of yew, only ash, maple and elm. Few members of the South-Germany/Austria bowbildersclub can make very good yewbows.
I´ve looked, when their made some on our bowbuilders-meeting. But I think, I must learn much more for making a english warbow.

[Ad'lan]

I know some of his videos on youtube. It´s amazing. Anytime I must travel to Britain and buy an original yewwarbow.
I never build a bow of yew, only ash, maple and elm. Few members of the South-Germany/Austria bowbildersclub can make very good yewbows.
I´ve looked, when their made some on our bowbuilders-meeting. But I think, I must learn much more for making a english warbow.

The Traditional Bowyers Bible is pretty good, and there are some pretty warbows comming out of Hungary from what I know.

[Kissing-Tom]

I know the bible, I read the german translation, very interesting. May be I´m feared to build a bow from a 200 Euro stave, when I build shit, 1-2 days and much money is for the ass.

[Ad'lan]

Build one or two in ash or hickory first.

[DunutDude67]

I Just use standard 28" wood arrows made of ceder I think. I only ask because two days ago I missed the target and hit a rock and my arrow completley shattered. Should I use different arrows?

[Ad'lan]

Rock =/= Skull

[ninja-elbow]

Most arrows that hit a rock will not fair well.

[Kyle Ryder]

Ok some answers to some of the critics.
Everyone's technique is different.
I am going to say some things that some of the recurve / flatbow folks may not realise.
An English longbows of 50 lb is not the same as a recurve bow of 50 lb. The latter is easier to draw by a long chalk. A flatbow is thinner and somewhat easier to use.
I can draw the bow without squating / bending the knee's but it's a darn sight more comfortable. Smaller / stocky folks don't need to do that as much but I'm nearly 6 foot tall and not big-built like a lot of our US cousins are
So let me get on with my technique as I am certainly not kow-towing to a school of thought on camp A when I do things my way and not the dogma way

My idea of archery is to get your arrow into the target first and worry about how cool I look with 'proper target stances' later, so far so good

I can draw the bow to my cheek ok. To my ear will come later

[Quietus]

I Just use standard 28" wood arrows made of ceder I think. I only ask because two days ago I missed the target and hit a rock and my arrow completley shattered. Should I use different arrows?

No. You should stop hitting rocks.

Random thought. Am I the only one here who finds it strange that someone shooting a 95lb longbow, does not know for sure what his arrows are made of?
That kind of bow is after all a piece of kit that requires massive amounts of training to use. Generally years, since it is as much a feat of technique as strength.

One would think that basic knowledge about the tools of the trade would be gained within that time.

[Shiloh]

I'm a sucker for the English longbow/warbow. It might not be the fastest, or most compact, or most quiet, but it's place in history as a devastating weapon on the battlefield is undeniable. And after I saw a guy at a local Renfaire shooting his 110# @ 32" bow with the properly tapered arrows (3/8" at the nock, 1/2" behind the point ) I was hooked. No way in hell I could draw one, but I'd like to think one day I'll be able to.

[DunutDude67]

I Just use standard 28" wood arrows made of ceder I think. I only ask because two days ago I missed the target and hit a rock and my arrow completley shattered. Should I use different arrows?

No. You should stop hitting rocks.

Random thought. Am I the only one here who finds it strange that someone shooting a 95lb longbow, does not know for sure what his arrows are made of?
That kind of bow is after all a piece of kit that requires massive amounts of training to use. Generally years, since it is as much a feat of technique as strength.

One would think that basic knowledge about the tools of the trade would be gained within that time.

Lol bro im 15 so chill out.
Anyway I have been shooting for a year mainly because it is an awesome workout using an English warbow. I just hit a boulder and I reminded myself that you kill zombies by penetrating the skull and since bone is harder than concrete I was wondering if you would only get limited use from wood shafted arrows and if there is a more durable material to use other than wood. You do have a point though about my arrows, I looked into it and they are definatley ceder, is that a problem or should I use a different kind of wood?

[Kissing-Tom]

No, Cedar, especially the Port Oxford Cedar is, in my opinion the best wood for arrows. Also I use for my 65# Elmbow tapperd Arrows of fir. But to make this arrows isn´t simple.
I think, when you start to shoot a bow is the best to use carbon-arrows. Always the same spine. To get the same constant in wood you must buy so much shafts. Ant then, when you have 20 arrows of well-spined, equal weight, same feathers, usw,...you will get angry, when an arrow brokes.
I use for a constant training only carbon.

[Ad'lan]

Lol bro im 15 so chill out.

And apparently you didn't read the rules. This Forum is 18+ as you agreed to when you joined the site. When you are 18, you can return to the site, but not before then.

[ArrowMaster]

Dude, your 15 and you can shoot a 95lb Longbow? Is that even possible or do you just take steroids.