Simple heat treating simple steels for (and by) simple minds

[huntingohio]

So.. i wanna make a brake drum forge to do this, but i cant find a brake drum big enough to do larger knives.

Would it be that har to make something like a kuhkri, I have one I like for a shape to go from, proper heat treating would be my main worry

[Fixxxer]

A standard brake drum should do fine. The drum is really just a means of holding your coal. The actual "hot spot" should be no bigger than the size of a baseball. Work your blade in sections using the hot spot and when you want to heat it for quenching, slide the blade slowly back and forth through the hot spot until it's evenly headed.

[maddmatt]

What do you think of A2 tool steel? It's my understanding it's air-hardening.

Oh god, A2 gives me nightmares. I have tried forging it, and it crumbles under my hammer blows, I have tried cutting it with and acetylene torch, it cut like crap, I never could get the stuff annealed in my wood ashes. I still have a bar of 3/8"x4"x4' that I'm trying to figure out what to do with it. I may see how our table cuts it at work, and making it into steels for my lathe. Starting out I would avoid A2 like the plague, and stick to a good 1095 or O-1.

[jnathan]

This thread is fantastic! The LM105 Micarta project that Kyle linked to produced some amazingly tough Micarta. Tougher than I've ever seen by a considerable bit.

The subject of this post reminds me of a video on YouTube which I watched about a year ago. The presenter demonstrates how to make a knife from a file (presumably a Ferrier's file) from start to finish:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ysKd1cswlo

The presenter also explains how he got his fire hot enough to heat-treat the steel after it had been annealed and shaped.

Homemade knife making is a great project to undertake because you can develop blacksmith/tool making skills, fine woodworking (or Micatrta working) skills and leather working skills.

When it's warmer, I'd like to try my hand at this. It might make a great project for chapters to work on as a group.

-Jeff

[Storm Crow]

So.. i wanna make a brake drum forge to do this, but i cant find a brake drum big enough to do larger knives.

Would it be that har to make something like a kuhkri, I have one I like for a shape to go from, proper heat treating would be my main worry

You might try a Tim Lively style forge: http://www.google.com/images?q=tim%20li ... =en&tab=wi

They're designed to be flexible in length to allow a longer fire for heat treating for longer blades or smaller to conserve fuel while shaping. Tim's a great guy who made an excellent video on low-buck no-electricity knife making. He's retired now.

[Sealegs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTIyqfA4avs

Found a video of a re-handling technique I've seen before but never tried myself.This would work quite well as a cheapskate handle seating of a rat-tail knife I think. The bit of pipe makes it a kind of reverse axe handle seating with the actual knife tang as the wedge.

Wood needs to be fresh when seating, or it'll crack from the pressure. The subsequent burning checks it for weakness and dries it out. Allowing for a good finishing carve of the handle. This is very close to the old "re-handle your Mora with a branch out in the bush" method. (featured here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJWkU-QQbqA )

[Gixxer1237]

I'm hung up on the guys heat treayment
Will a hardwood campfire really getcha up to 1100+ degrees?
Wondering if you rigged up an air compressor (or leaf blower/shop vac?) to a BBQ briquet chimney starter... would that work? I have to think the heat treat is critical to a project like thi!

I have forged knives in hard wood fires, but its not easy. Barely gets hot enough. And a leaf blower is way to much air. A camp air pump for air matresses will work. The best way to get a differintial Hardening is to coat the back of the blade with refractory cement and let it dry. Heat the blade up quickly to just past magnetic(if using simple carbon steel), leave it there for 30 seconds to a minute, and quench is the oil of choice. Then put it in your home oven(even better is a garage sale toaster oven) at 400 degrees for 3 cycles of 1 hour, letting it cool naturally inbetween to room temp. This should give you a good middle of the road hardness. Temper it after hardning fast, don't leave it sitting around to long, they are very brittle. Then finish sanding it and get it good and sharp. Leave em thick for hardening, or the edge may crack.

[Dedsquirrl]

That link is awesome.

I have some old lawnmower blades stacked up in the greenhouse.
Would that be good enough steel?
I will probably give it a go anyway just to get a feel for the process.

[Storm Crow]

Lawnmower blades tend to be a bit more of a crap shoot than spring, but there are a lot of folks who make good knives out of 'em. Test harden a piece as I describe in my thread on heat treatment, and if it hardens appropriately, have at it!

Free material is free.

[Jeriah]

I am loving the idea of a ZSC:20 chapter project where we get together and build knives.

My place is out, by the way, I live in an apartment.

[Osiris Risen]

Definitely going to try this; I'm looking online for steel, but can't seem to find much thinner than 1/4". I'd like to start with a smallish knife for my first try and that seems a little thick. Should I just go with that and file it down some?

[doctorwho42]

http://www.hossom.com/jonesy/

I saw this years ago and have been trying to find it off and on to post it here. Someone on another forum linked to it today, so here y'all go.

The only thing I would take exception to would be to please use veggie oil instead of used motor oil to harden the blade, particularly if tempering afterwards in your kitchen oven like he's showing.

This is a lot of work, but I can pretty much guarantee that if you do it right (shaping as well as heat treatment), this will outperform anything you can buy for under $100.

And, quite frankly, I'd rather see a lot more folks posting things like this that they've made than asking, "I have a $20 budget and want a great knife. What can I get?" or any of the blue phone cord ninja nonsense.

'

ok... i like the idea of making knives and will be working with some leaf spring steel this summer in trying to create a fixed blade... but i think it is a bit of false advertising to say you can make something that can outperform anything made under $100. Ultimately the overpriced stuff you can get off of some sites but there are plenty of nice steel you can buy under 100 that is really nice steel.

Mainly i point this out to stress the fact that it would take a lot of practice to get the same craftsmanship that say a nice high-carbon steel blade made in japan by some of the best blade companies for the lower priced smaller stuff

[evisceration]

I made a forge that I use for my knives out of two old brake drums. I dug a hole in the ground where I stuck an old blown heat gun that just blows air to feed the fire, above it sits the brake drums in a clam fashion. I just stuff MDF and baltic birch in the bottom drum stick my blade in and close it. I have a slot where the handle sticks out. If you ever have any useless brake drums they work wonders.

[Storm Crow]

Definitely going to try this; I'm looking online for steel, but can't seem to find much thinner than 1/4". I'd like to start with a smallish knife for my first try and that seems a little thick. Should I just go with that and file it down some?

Thinner high carbon steel is definitely available. Where are you looking? http://www.admiralsteel.com/pdf/bladesteel.pdf Unfortunately, they don't list their 5160 sizes, which is the alloy I'd recommend, but you can call and see what they have.

Doctorwho - Wait, you telling me that someone might have to practice/have some natural hand skill/know what they're doing to some degree/actually know what constitutes a good knife in order for a knife they make to be of quality? Get right out of town! What kind of world do we live in? Oh wait, that's why I have the caveat "if you do it right (shaping as well as heat treatment)".

Evisceration - Careful with that setup. From how I'm envisioning your description, it makes it where you can't really see the blade while heating (of course, a solid fuel forge always makes it harder to see the steel in it, meaning you have to be a bit more careful with them), and it can easily overheat and burn the steel. I've had it happen plenty of times, most recently on the second-to-last heat on a three pound hammer head I was making at a workshop.

[Sealegs]

Inspirational video time:

Parang maker:
http://youtu.be/ZIjl2YX-DnI
Not in English but you get a nice inspirational view of it.

Kris maker:
http://youtu.be/RkvTpr4rz5s
Same as above.

[doctorwho42]

was more trying to point out the that being able to make your own that is better than most you could pick up below 100 dollars is not entirely correct

[Storm Crow]

Based on the production knives I've seen, I stand by my original statement.

ETA: YMMV

[rustyboy]

here's admiral steel online catalog. There 1075/80 is a good place to start.

[Cpt_Jack]

Inspirational video time:

Parang maker:
http://youtu.be/ZIjl2YX-DnI
Not in English but you get a nice inspirational view of it.

Kris maker:
http://youtu.be/RkvTpr4rz5s
Same as above.

If you want a translation just message me and I'll do it but there isn't a huge amount there that you can't see or you won't read in my ramblings below. I actually know of this guy, becuase I hope he will be casting the Kris I'll carry when I marry, we call him Pak Mazin. He learned from his father who learned from his father who used to be the royal sword maker. He himself started making his first blades aged 12, been doing it ever since and has cast the Kris the local Sultan uses, the work on them is incredible, crap connection right now but I'll try and post some pics later. Unfortunately it's a dieing trade and none of his 12 children (!) want to carry it on, the government gave him a grant to build a museum but such a shame to see it die.

Also, someone was asking about Kukuris? The method of making them is a bit unique but message me and I can put your questions to a proper Nepalese Kukuri maker I vaguely know, he is one of the group that forges them for the Gurkha regiments.

And as for this, if anyone hears of a large fire engulfing downtown Kula Lumpa, tell them I was forging blades on my balcony with a forge made out of biscuit tins and you tried to warn me not to No, I'd never do something so stupid... would I? I'd use a cracker tin at least...

[Sealegs]

Thats just plain awesome. You could see from the vid he knew damn well what he was doing.

Hehe, enjoy forging on the balcony while you can! Such stunts get very difficult once married.

[Cpt_Jack]

Yes, he certainly does, made me a bit pissed off to read one comment on that vid from some prick who thought he knew better...

His work is actually reasonably affordable when you consider the work that goes into it (something not mentioned on the vid is how he spends days in the jungle finding the right materials). Starting price 500RM (US$165) which I don't think is that bad for what is really a work of art.

And that is why I'm doing it now, while I live a few hundred miles away ;-P Hunting for a bit of steel right now and I hope to do the actual work on it sometime after my exams next month. The forging is the only hard bit for me to do, I just can't see how I'm going to have the space, I don't even have an oven. Anyone got any ideas?

[Sealegs]

Some day I hope to own a knife like that.

I have all my stuff in a garage right now so I'm out of space as well. Looking to rebuild the old smithy on my farm in the original style. Log cabin and slate roof.

[Storm Crow]

The forging is the only hard bit for me to do, I just can't see how I'm going to have the space, I don't even have an oven. Anyone got any ideas?

I have all my stuff in a garage right now so I'm out of space as well.

Go all Tim Lively on it:



The whole idea of this thread is making knives with minimal resources, including space. The method in the OP's link ( ) could easily be done in a college dorm room with the possible exception of heat treating, which can be done in a buddy's back yard with a charcoal grill, a har dryer, and a toaster oven or kitchen oven.

This guy is making awesome knives on an apartment balcony in Eastern Europe using an angle grinder: http://www.tomasrucker.com/knives/Custo ... Rucker.htm

[Chef]

There's something about makeshift workshops that's really inspiring to me.