The Lobo from WWZ

[xombiechow]

Hey i have read through WWZ numerous times and I know people have mentioned the Lobo at different times but I have never seen anyone come up with a sketch of what it might look like...it's supposed to be a mix between a shovel and double bladed battle axe but in my mind you have to throw in the situation it was created in. (PAW) when the military was using steel from junked cars to mass produce these.

So the design would have to be simple to assemble...maybe even one solid piece...light enough to carry long distances...thinking no longer that 40" total...and double as an entrenching tool as well...

I have played with multiple designs trying to mix the two styles but haven't really come up with anything that i think would say was fantastic or something I could say looks believable. I found this spec ops patch with something that might be a starting point or at least inspirational to a design.

If you're interested lets try to come up with something. If we can I'd be willing to try to get it made. Here's the patch:

[ninja-elbow]

Cold Steel Special Forces Shovel, based off Spetznav spade. I have two of them and they work moderately good at a lot of stuff.

http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/cs_shovel.html

Could maybe use a longer handle but I like mine a lot.

[Hoppy]

soooo. a shovel like pole arm. a monks spade?

[muscleman_coffeemesto]

I have the cold steel shovel too. It throws great too when you're bored.

[andygates]

Sounds like an excuse for a design competition.

[congochris]

Wait, you mean I gotta set my forge back up? Damnit, that thing is heavy as all hell, and I need to replace the legs.

[BEar667]

my understanding of the Lobo was an entrenching tool,with the shovel folded at 90 degrees and had a double bladed axe head welded/attached to the opposite side. At least that's how I read it, I could be mistaken tho.


*edited for clarity

[xombiechow]

Bear: That's a new way to look at for me...that makes sense too. that would give it more of a "ho" use as opposed to a shovel with the swing of an ax but it might be a bit awkward.

Andy: Yes sir it does.

Ninja: Hey i've actually seen that before and I'm thinking that it would more along this line with maybe an alteration to the head design...

If anyone can post a sketch or something of their ideas we can all brainstorm. Thanks for the comments guys!

*you know i got to thinking that maybe if you take the basic shape of the spade on the patch and take a slight crescent shape out of the top third (sort of like the shaolin spade's botttom blade) you might have something practical that could dig and have an effective weapon for slashing and jabbing to the bridge of the nose area. Does that make sense? Input?

xc

[congochris]

an ax head on one side and a shovel thing on the other? eh.. I have one of those. It's more like a hoe/mattock than a shovel, but trust me, that tool is a treat for digging out stumps. No need to change tools when you hit a root. just flip around, chop, and drive on. Found it at home depot. They call it a landscaper's axe, but I've also seen it called a pulaski.

[Ellie With An Axe]

my understanding of the Lobo was an entrenching tool,with the shovel folded at 90 degrees and had a double bladed axe head welded/attached to the opposite side. At least that's how I read it, I could be mistaken tho.

Somebody's gonna have to tell me what page the Lobo is referenced on because I'm having a brainfart and can't find it. I know Wainio talks about it, but then again, Wainio talks about an awful lot of stuff for a long, long time.

The Lobo I pictured looked kind of weird, but I didn't spend a lot of time trying to figure out what it looked like. What I imagined looked something like this:



Crossed with this:

[Big A]

From World War Z, by Max Brooks

(top of page 146, last paragraph of interview with Arthur
Sinclair, Jr.) Taken verbatim:


(Sinclair points above my my head to the opposite wall. On it
hangs a heavy steel rod ending in what looks like a fusion of
shovel and double-bladed battle-ax. It's official designation is the
Standard Infantry Entrenching Tool, although, to most, it is
known as either the "Lobotomizer," or simply, the "Lobo.")

Nowhere does it describe anything being at a 90-degree angle!

It DOES sound a lot like the Spetnaz shovel, but with a steel handle.

That's my take on it, anyway.

[ninja-elbow]

That was my take on it. Spetsnav spade with a tad longer metal handle; not too long though.

Swinging my spade around, I gotta say: That sucker is easy to handle as it is now and I would not really want a longer handle. Maybe metal, but not longer. Plus, if I'm fighting zeds with my spade, I best be runing real quick or you can have my spade. It's name is 'Spanky'. The newer one 'aint got a name yet.

[xombiechow]

i'm glad to hear your input...i agree that it would look military style...simplisitic...not fantasy weapon ya know? something they could stamp out on an assembly line...i like the spets but how do you guys think you could mix the double bladed battle axe description...to read it it sounds like he's exaggerating a bit but there's probably some aspect that sets it apart from a normal entrenching tool and makes it ideal for cracking zed heads.

[Ellie With An Axe]

Behold, my bad (as in sub-par and rockin') artwork. It's a "Bad Axe" with the shovel bit still on there, and a metal handle.

[ninja-elbow]

That's pretty sweet Ellie. Seriously, F'in sweet.

[Jeriah]

Behold, my bad (as in sub-par and rockin') artwork. It's a "Bad Axe" with the shovel bit still on there, and a metal handle.

Hey, good thinkin'! I totally believe that as the lobo. Nice work!

[xombiechow]

Ellie that rocks! i think that's a great mix...simple...anyone have any mods to it? Or any other design ideas? what would it look like with a small slight concave crescent as opposed the convex curve? or a more spets like point? That's awesome! Thanks Ellie!

[Jeriah]

Ellie, hope you don't mind but I took the liberty of making a suggested modification to your design:



Sharper point, primarily for digging but seconarily as a thrusting point.

The point is concave, allowing it to function like a scoop or shovel, but the axe area is still flat. My e-tool coconut test showed that trying to split a skull with a curved edge SUCKS.

I'm not 100% on the idea, but it seems like we're headed in the right direction.

When we get it perfect, we should try to get Brooks to authorize a Cold Steel Lobo replica based on our design.

[xombiechow]

hey that looks great too! Keep those ideas coming. That'd be sweet since the movie is in the works...ya never know we may see thousands strapped to PAW soldier's backs I definately think we're headed in the right direction..i'll post a couple little doodles of different head designs later today. Thanks for the participation guys!

[Packin' Heat]

shouldn't we send this to cold steel? or maybe zombietools.net?

the sooner we do, the sooner they can make it.

[ninja-elbow]

Through experience with my Spetz, the concave in the head does limit it's chopping and splitting capabilities. Like I have always mentioned - the Spetz is mediocre at a lot of things. It is shallower than other e-tools but will still get bound up on logs wider than my forearm (12-13 inches).

I also see pressing out a compound concave/flat piece would be a real PITA. So, I say keep it flat.

[Vampire]

Perhaps a little more rounding of against getting stuck?

[Ellie With An Axe]

Through experience with my Spetz, the concave in the head does limit it's chopping and splitting capabilities. Like I have always mentioned - the Spetz is mediocre at a lot of things. It is shallower than other e-tools but will still get bound up on logs wider than my forearm (12-13 inches).

I also see pressing out a compound concave/flat piece would be a real PITA. So, I say keep it flat.

Yah. Would also make it difficult to throw. I mean, if it had to be. The head would need to have more weight on it for throwing, but the "heavy metal rod" would need to be slightly longer, but not much. But I like the more pointy tip Jeriah added. I don't think it would necessarily need to be concave... but perhaps it could be bent to a slight angle.

If the Marines were making these things, they would probably just want to build something badass, tough, but simple and mean, and get it into the fight asap. So... I don't see why the whole thing wouldn't have been stamped out in one piece of stainless, and then given a black finish, and maybe the handle wrapped in <strike>telephone</strike> paracord, and then shipped out. They could get thousands of these things made every day. (ninja edit: with enough production facilities.)

But when Max says "heavy steel rod", I think solid metal, with more of a round shape. I also think unfinished steel. Tacticool black is neat and everything, but there also isn't much of a reason to make them difficult to see, since the enemy doesn't really give a crap.

This is a one-piece stamped-out axe:



I did some reading and the tomahawk gained small popularity with some Marines during Vietnam. Here's the company that made them, and they still make them today: American Tomahawk Company

[Vampire]

Through experience with my Spetz, the concave in the head does limit it's chopping and splitting capabilities. Like I have always mentioned - the Spetz is mediocre at a lot of things. It is shallower than other e-tools but will still get bound up on logs wider than my forearm (12-13 inches).

I also see pressing out a compound concave/flat piece would be a real PITA. So, I say keep it flat.

But will it hold when used as a shovel? Perhaps some reinforcements than, something among the style of the "bumps" in that battleaxe?