Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

For those who live in areas where firearms are not an option and those that are smart enough to have a back up.

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Svremeto
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Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by Svremeto » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:07 am

Hello, folks!

I live in Bulgaria. A country in easter Europe with a lot of corruption, a country of criminaks. I was brought here by sorrow. I live in a relatively dangerous place where is almost illegal to defend your self or your home. Its extremely hard for most people to get a fire arm for self defence so i've started to think about home defence with an airgun. I found there is a relativly cheap semi automatic airgun called Hatsan Sortie. It has approximately 20-22 jaules of energy and muzzle velosity of 700 fps. I.'ve found also that if i get .22 slugs which are twice heavier than the regilular pellets the stoping power will increase and i suppose they will be enough accurate for 15-20 yards. If i put a red dot and with its big magazin (12 shots) i suppose its enough to defend my home (me or my wife) from 2-3 attackers.

What dou you think about it?

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Re: Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by Mad Mike » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:36 pm

I'm sure it is better than throwing rocks.
There are much bigger, more powerful airguns made - perhaps you should look into them?
Also, be sure of your legal standing if you do happen to use an airgun for defense.

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Re: Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by flybynight » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:43 am

I live in a relatively dangerous place where is almost illegal to defend your self or your home.
Without the capacity to instantly disable an attacker. Most weapons would only serve to infuriate an attacker . But the more telling is the portion I quoted. Even if the airgun was capable of being used to defend yourself. What good will it do you if you successfully use it only to be thrown in jail?
Is moving to another safer place an option?
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Re: Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by Svremeto » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:25 am

Mad Mike wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:36 pm
I'm sure it is better than throwing rocks.
There are much bigger, more powerful airguns made - perhaps you should look into them?
Also, be sure of your legal standing if you do happen to use an airgun for defense.
Thanks for your advice. Yes, i saw such but it should be compact at all. Thats my viewpoint as there is a big chance to be used inside a house. in my country, the average hallway width is about 1 meter. But often there is a wardrobe in it and the width is 70cm. So I suppose for tactical purposes it's an advantage if you have a short gun. Of course, its best to have just one 9mm (or such) pistol but... Then i will not be here asking for advice. :D

The big bore airguns as they called it are very big. At least 90-100cm. That's why I`m looking for something compact with enough power to stop the intruder.

But fix me if I'm wrong.

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Re: Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by Svremeto » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:30 am

flybynight wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:43 am
I live in a relatively dangerous place where is almost illegal to defend your self or your home.
Without the capacity to instantly disable an attacker. Most weapons would only serve to infuriate an attacker . But the more telling is the portion I quoted. Even if the airgun was capable of being used to defend yourself. What good will it do you if you successfully use it only to be thrown in jail?
Is moving to another safer place an option?
I have AK47. But if i use it against the intruders who are often armed with axes and knives i will "exceed" the thread and then i will go to jail for sure even if they are 10 and i am only 1. Thats why I suppose its better to use an air rifle which will be confiscated (eventually) and also i suppose that i will not "exceed" the thread if I`m using a nonfirearm weapon which is the airgun.

About the moving - I`m not a sheep. My ancestors fought for this land. I will not give it up to the invaders.

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Re: Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by Stercutus » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:49 am

Honestly I would go with a crossbow if I could get one. Ideally I'd go with Joerg's six shot pump action crossbow. A little tougher to work than a shotgun but a bolt travelling 150fps will likely have a much better chance of taking down an attacker than an air pistol.

If I could not get one then a short spear would be next. Not so much for throwing but for thrusting. It is simple and easy to use and can be devastating to an attacker.

If you go with the air pistol it will have to be all face shots. An air pistol can easily destroy an eye and make your attacker blind for the rest of his life. Without sight he will lose all will to fight right away. Hitting an eye is no easy trick and then dealing with the legal issues of making someone disabled for the rest of their life might be daunting.
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Re: Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by JayceSlayn » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:21 am

Use of any force (deadly or less-lethal) has to be carefully considered before you get into the situation, because your split-second reasoning may not always be the most advised. It is a good sign that you are considering your options now, of course.

I am not familiar with the kinds of laws restricting weapons and their usage cases in your country, but it would be best to try to know them as thoroughly as you can. In some places in the US for example, there are legal precedents to defending your home from an invader, but even then the depth of legal ramifications vary greatly case-to-case.

I advise people who are considering whether they should own a firearm for home defense etc. to also consider under what conditions they would actually use it. One of the things to consider is the value of what you are trying to protect vs. the value of potential consequences. If someone is only interested in stealing a TV from your home, maybe killing them to prevent that loss is literally "overkill". However, if someone is imminently intent on killing you or a loved one (or you can show that you reasonably thought so at the time), then you may be justified in trying to kill them first. Another thing to consider is what level of force is required to achieve the desired result. You have to imagine that a similar game of risk vs. reward is playing out in the other person's mind: simply threatening them with a baseball bat may be enough to get a particular person to leave your house, while in other situations they may be more determined. Trying to gauge how fast to escalate your response is a difficult skill, but you don't want to be caught behind the curve or push it higher than it needs to go.

If you are unfortunate enough to suffer a situation where you have to actually decide these kinds of options, hopefully you'll be better prepared by thinking them out ahead of time, but also unfortunately it is not likely to be an entirely favorable outcome either way. I recall a saying something like: "If you decide to start a fight with someone, it is going to ruin your day." Meaning that you either get the immediate pain of losing the fight, or you "win" the fight, but are still in major trouble afterwards. The same is true of someone deciding to invade your home, but you don't get to decide on whether your day will be ruined in the first place.
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Re: Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by Dabster » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:59 am

Is bear spray an option? I expect it would be more reliable than an air gun.
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Re: Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by MacWa77ace » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:14 am

Krum's Dynasty, former Bulgarian citizen, and just a guy on a forum, describes Bulgaria as:
Krum's Dynasty wrote:[Bulgaria] Definitely the most liberal weapon laws in Europe, no other country can beat.
https://www.theslingshotforum.com/threa ... ost-402548

https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/bulgaria These guys categorize it as restrictive, but that is relative to all the other countries as you know.


More internet data, according to these, as a country Bulgaria doesn't seem crime ridden IMO.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/B ... icide-rate
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-in ... aria/Crime
https://www.osac.gov/Content/Report/082 ... f4aebacc78



Can't find the actual self defense law, but I'd guess its a 'Duty to Retreat' country and at worst this would include your house [Castle].
Its very important to know the law first, then create a plan of action, then acquire the tools you'll need, all to act within your legal limitations.
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Re: Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by jor-el » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:35 am

If you could direct us to your local government/LE website it would be best if we read for ourselves what restrictions you live under and provide a more informed counsel as to what you counld use for self defense.
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Re: Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by NT2C » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:45 am

Time for me to step in here as a moderator and state that any and all "legal" advice given by the members of this forum is only an opinion and should not be depended upon as being valid. You are always advised to consult with a legal professional licenced to practice in your area.
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Re: Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by jor-el » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:48 pm

Simple answer: if the locality in question uses the UK restriction of a 12 foot pound limitation on energy, the answer is no.
Typical .22lr as a 40 grain bullet at standard velocity of 1000 fps is 90 foot pounds; a 29 grain .22 short at 750 fps is 35.
A CB cap of 20 grains and 500 fps I think fits the spec and that would be real skectchy for pest control let alone defense against humans.
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Re: Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by Svremeto » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:41 am

Thanks for your opinion. I`m not from UK. My country allows all airguns but the point is that i think should be something compact (as the hallways are not width enough) and should be semi-automatic (without reloading each time).
jor-el wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:48 pm
A CB cap of 20 grains and 500 fps I think fits the spec and that would be real skectchy for pest control let alone defense against humans.
I`m not sure what you want to say. Can you explain in a different way?

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Re: Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by taipan821 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:14 am

jor-el wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:48 pm
Simple answer: if the locality in question uses the UK restriction of a 12 foot pound limitation on energy, the answer is no.
Typical .22lr as a 40 grain bullet at standard velocity of 1000 fps is 90 foot pounds; a 29 grain .22 short at 750 fps is 35.
A CB cap of 20 grains and 500 fps I think fits the spec and that would be real skectchy for pest control let alone defense against humans.
Australian firearms laws in general consider a gun using compressed air a weapon and falls under firearm laws (paintballs and air guns cat A)
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Re: Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by jor-el » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:21 am

Svremeto wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:41 am
Thanks for your opinion. I`m not from UK. My country allows all airguns but the point is that i think should be something compact (as the hallways are not width enough) and should be semi-automatic (without reloading each time).
jor-el wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:48 pm
A CB cap of 20 grains and 500 fps I think fits the spec and that would be real skectchy for pest control let alone defense against humans.
I`m not sure what you want to say. Can you explain in a different way?
There is some correlation between locales and weapons restrictions; each state tends to copy from another state the text of law. California enacts a ban on bayonet lugs, Washington, Massachesetts and New York enact similar bans with similar language.

The UK currently has a foot pound power restriction on air guns. (I believe u are from Bulgaria?) your nation may be inspired to enact a nearly identical restriction based on the terms of the UK restriction in its future.

Te CB cap is a .22LR cartridge with a foot pound power level about equal to the UK restriction. It is considered a "gallery gun" round, not suitable for anything more rigourous. The .22lr case size allows it to feed through manually operated .22lr firearms.
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Re: Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by jor-el » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:45 am

The OP's request gun

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Hatsan_S ... /4433#8951

That's quite a toy.

You do know this comes in a 6.35mm bore? You would be better served with the most throw weight

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/Seneca_2 ... _83ct/1469

That puts you in the .22 short power levels.
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Re: Home defence with an airgun? Countries with no fire arms allowed

Post by buck85 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:01 pm

https://www.airgundepot.com/hatsan-sort ... hetic.html
better a bow and arrow, crossbow or a slingshot
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