Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

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moab
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Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by moab » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:21 am

I'm assuming the square flat area is for batoning? These really confuse me. lol. What is the intent of this blade?

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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by RickOShea » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:25 am

Best I can come up with....

"The M-18 has come to be the flagship of T.M. Hunt custom knives. It was designed as a wilderness tool capable of many tasks. The large chopping end is given mechanical advantage by the hollow ground draw knife/froe section of the blade and chops like a axe. The versatile hand purchases used with the lanyard for support offers the blade to be used for fine cutting chores and breaking down and skinning game. One tool to take the place of many."


Last edited by RickOShea on Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by yossarian » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:38 am

moab wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:21 am
lol. What is the intent of this blade?

To part a fool from his money as near as I can tell.
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by moab » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:38 am

Ah. It's a draw knife and a hatchet of sorts. I get it now. For bushcraft. You can shop down the poles and skin them with one blade. I guess. lol. I'd hate to have to sharpen it!
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by woodsghost » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:40 am

I like this guy's vids. Here he basically makes that same tool, but in a much cheaper and maybe more useful package.



He is also one of the winders of the Alone TV series. I have not watched the episodes, but I"ve followed him on forums and YT for a while.
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by moab » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:02 pm

Wow. That video should be its own post. Ill post it if you dont. I suddenly need a machete like never before.
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by woodsghost » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:11 pm

moab wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:02 pm
Wow. That video should be its own post. Ill post it if you dont. I suddenly need a machete like never before.
Did I not post it right? Please go ahead. I'm pretty impressed with machetes too. Especially after his video. I believe he is known as Pict over on BCUSA.
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by flybynight » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:27 pm

Pretty neat … til I checked the price. :shock:

https://www.bladehq.com/item--TM-Hunt-C ... ade--72366
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by raptor » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:58 pm

flybynight wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:27 pm
Pretty neat … til I checked the price. :shock:

https://www.bladehq.com/item--TM-Hunt-C ... ade--72366
$475? You can buy a chainsaw for that price. Still good quality is not cheap.

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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by moab » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:30 pm

Ya. I will never pay $475 for a knife. I'm sorry. I don't care how much money I had. That's highway robbery. It's not made out of unobtainium. Or cut with space lasers.

The other thread I started about this in Bug Out Gear has some very interesting videos on how to make a similar blade out of a machete. Very eye opening. I didn't think one blade could do all that.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=121661&p=2705616#p2705616
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by flybynight » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:10 pm

moab wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:30 pm
Ya. I will never pay $475 for a knife. I'm sorry. I don't care how much money I had. That's highway robbery. It's not made out of unobtainium. Or cut with space lasers.

The other thread I started about this in Bug Out Gear has some very interesting videos on how to make a similar blade out of a machete. Very eye opening. I didn't think one blade could do all that.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=121661&p=2705616#p2705616
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by crypto » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:30 pm

People will take any cheap tool and customize it until its ridiculously expensive.

I've seen people selling forged machetes for $200. Or CNC'd shit.

Machetes are supposed to be cheap as hell and made out of stamped flat stock, but whatever, people can buy what they want I guess.

a $200 machete certainly isnt better than 5 regular ones lol.
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by moab » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:24 am

I remember the vegamatic and the ginsu chef knife (still have one lmao) and the one that "slices! dices: and makes julian fries! LOL!

But check these vids in the other thread I started. Interesting take on sharpening a cheap machete to make it do a number of things:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=121661
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by Storm Crow » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:12 am

I think purpose and design has been covered decently in the video (is there a non-extreme survival situation?). Just a couple of comments from a knifemaker's perspective.

$475 for a hand ground knife that size with a Kydex sheath is not outside the realm of the marketplace by any means. I won't pay $40,000 for a pickup truck, but that is a reasonable price in the market. I won't pay $2000 for a rifle, but plenty of folks are happy to do so. Hunt seems to sell these as fast as he can make them, meaning there are plenty of folks willing and able to pay that price. There are many segments of the knife market, and this is a different segment than you're in. That's all. :)

Crypto - I sell forged bush swords for several times $200. Fairly simple designs, inexpensive materials, but high performance. It keeps me busy. I've had to close books while I catch up on orders.

Customer photos, sent to me yesterday:

Imageminifridge by James Helm, on Flickr

Imageminifridge2 by James Helm, on Flickr

When I started forging, making my own machetes was one of my goals, precisely because I knew what a useful tool they are, and they're always cheaply made. There is a great deal more enjoyment in using one well-made tool than five cheaply-made tools. I've done a mighty much lot of work with cheap machetes, I'm not knocking them, I'm just saying that it is reasonable for someone to want something better.

I really don't understand the comment about "CNC'd shit". CNC machining is a very powerful tool for making all kinds of stuff, including blades, and one of its hallmarks is precise quality. I've been in the long, slow process of setting up to make low-level production knives with CNC machining, and see plenty of high-end knives, folders and fixed blades, built using the process. For prices well above $475, sometimes. A design can be bad, but bad CNC machining usually means failure in the process.
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by crypto » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:23 pm

I'm sure your blades are top tier, man. All your work is great.

I just don't see how they do a machetes job better than a $40 stamped machete like the 100 million made before it, is all.
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by moab » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:49 pm

Storm Crow wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:12 am
I think purpose and design has been covered decently in the video (is there a non-extreme survival situation?). Just a couple of comments from a knifemaker's perspective.

$475 for a hand ground knife that size with a Kydex sheath is not outside the realm of the marketplace by any means. I won't pay $40,000 for a pickup truck, but that is a reasonable price in the market. I won't pay $2000 for a rifle, but plenty of folks are happy to do so. Hunt seems to sell these as fast as he can make them, meaning there are plenty of folks willing and able to pay that price. There are many segments of the knife market, and this is a different segment than you're in. That's all. :)

Crypto - I sell forged bush swords for several times $200. Fairly simple designs, inexpensive materials, but high performance. It keeps me busy. I've had to close books while I catch up on orders.

Customer photos, sent to me yesterday:

Imageminifridge by James Helm, on Flickr

Imageminifridge2 by James Helm, on Flickr

When I started forging, making my own machetes was one of my goals, precisely because I knew what a useful tool they are, and they're always cheaply made. There is a great deal more enjoyment in using one well-made tool than five cheaply-made tools. I've done a mighty much lot of work with cheap machetes, I'm not knocking them, I'm just saying that it is reasonable for someone to want something better.

I really don't understand the comment about "CNC'd shit". CNC machining is a very powerful tool for making all kinds of stuff, including blades, and one of its hallmarks is precise quality. I've been in the long, slow process of setting up to make low-level production knives with CNC machining, and see plenty of high-end knives, folders and fixed blades, built using the process. For prices well above $475, sometimes. A design can be bad, but bad CNC machining usually means failure in the process.
I don't think anyone can compare your knives with cheap machetes. Two different animals. Your's aren't just for cutting brush and starting fires. Your's are for making things dead, breaking things apart AND cutting brush and what have you. But more importantly they have a design value that appeals to many people. Me included. I would love to spend $200 or $300 on one of your smaller blades. I think you were selling some of your smaller designs for that much. Maybe I remember incorrectly. But I currently can't afford to buy a $475+ knife from anyone.

Unless I was going overseas as a soldier or Marine. And needed it for my job. Then I would take a loan out on my car. Just to properly outfit myself.

The reason I can't afford it. Is because many other areas of my prepping life need financial attention. Way worse than my chosen knives.

The thing about your knives vs other knives in that price range. Is that I wouldn't be afraid to use yours and beat the shit out of it. Big selling point in a lot of your pics. You don't build safe queens. You build knives, machetes and hawks to be used. On a daily basis. To be road hard and put up wet. The $475 knives I really can't stand are the ones with the super shiny finishes. Where the silver is perfectly polished. And the chrome blade is too nice to even think about sharpening it again. And you can almost see your reflection in the wood. Those are like "Come on. What are you gonna do with that thing?! Except handle it once every few months. Wipe off your finger prints. And put it back in it's dry sock or box for safe keeping." Those knives are never gonna get used. Whereas a sub $100 ESEE is gonna get all the abuse you can feed it.

So in my current preps the ESEE lite machete fits my needs. Nice enough blade. Certainly nicer than most central american machetes. (The ESEE is made in El Salvador.) Micarta handles I can take off and inspect and clean the steel underneath. And handles/scales you can reshape to fit your own ergonomic needs. But again, the biggest reason is cost. For $50 I take the other $150-$300 and put that into firearms or ammo or better lighter gear. But again, if I were using this blade everyday on assignment in Brazil lets say. I'd totally buy a stormcrow blade. And use the shit out of it on a daily basis.

I think we all have different budgets. The common denominator for me is "am I gonna use this?". And the answer to stormcrows blades and the others I've posted. Yes. They're gonna get used. This one with the fancy contour in the blade for skinning trees might get used a lot too. It's not to fancy. But at $475. If I had to buy a blade at that price? It would be stormcrow all the way.

I do look forward to your cnc production knives. I like being able to contour micarta to my liking. (assuming your going to make a flat cut knife with some form of scales made in another material like micarta or G10.) Ergonomics in the scales is very important to me. I have smaller hands. And most square-ish scales don't ride well in my hands. Tends to make blisters and sore spots. Especially on the joints in my thumb and forefinger. So it will be interesting to see how your production knives on the cnc turn out. :)
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by Storm Crow » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:01 pm

As a preamble, I'm not trying to drum up sales, take offense, or give offense. It just struck me that my interjection could be seen as such. Just trying to give a bit of insight into an area of manufacture that is my niche that a lot of people aren't as engrossed by as I am. :mrgreen: The big point I wanted to make is just that the price of the M-18 is in line with certain segments of the knife marketplace that I would consider it fitting into.

Crypto - Blades, like anything else, are of varying performance. Knives are our most primal tools after hammers, and their roles cover the gamut from utilitarian tool to sculpture with an edge. Some are high art, some are disposable. The price range reflects that. No analogy is perfect, but consider blade performance like vehicle performance. A base-model Neon, a Humvee, and a Corvette ZR1 will all get you from Point A to Point B. Speed of getting there is only part of the performance. Handling is part of the package, but that's not all either. I might take a ZR1 around a corner much faster than I would in a Humvee, but I sure am not going to try to do any river fording or rock climbing in it. Style is also a factor, and price. There's a lot going into what vehicle you choose, and all will get you from Point A to Point B. Just "cutting" is like going from Point A to Point B. There's more to the appeal of a blade beyond the fact that they all cut.

The bush swords *do* a machete's job better, but a potential customer has to weigh whether the difference in cutting ability plus all other performance and style factors make the price difference worth it to them or not. I don't try to persuade folks to buy something of mine; there's a reason I make custom knives and not buy them. I drive a 1997 Chevy half ton with 402,000 miles on it. :lol:

Moab - Sounds like you've got it pretty well. Just keep in mind that those higher-finish knives have folks that love and use them too. I've seen plenty of pictures of fancy-shmancy Damascus with gorgeous wood handles covered in blood and hair from processing out game both here and on other continents. Some are safe queens, some are not. Some of the most beautiful, high-dollar knives out there are used by professional chefs daily.

That's one of the greatest things about custom knives: everyone uses them, everyone has their own needs and wants for them, so making them can be approached from soooooo many different directions. Some people pursue Damascus patterns and hamons, some pursue brute toughness to withstand things a blade should never be subjected to, some pursue edge retention, some art, some war, etc. And folks making things on the opposite ends of the spectrum from each other can appreciate what the other guy is doing. Look up the work of Johnny Stout. He likes my work and I like his.

I'll start a separate thread on the mid-tech knives. :)
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by Halfapint » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:40 pm

I can attest to what stormcrow is saying. I bought one of his designs (back when he took customs orders :mrgreen: ). This thing does things a regular parang or matchete cannot even dream of doing. I use it daily on my property to beat back ivy and take small trees down. I have a cheap machete that works for what a matchete is suppose to do, cut thing jungle vines. I would never use it to batton wood, or go at the base of a 4” thick ivy trunk.

As stated there are different reason why you get a tool like that. And from what stormcrow says he’s apparently selling them like hot cakes. Not everything has to be utilitarian and basic.

Anywho, stormcrow, when you start taking orders again, please let me know! I want a his/hers knives!
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by Storm Crow » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:58 pm

Thanks, Halfapint! Yep, at this point it's more a matter of trying to get work out the door than generate more interest, for which I am grateful.

Shoot me an e-mail. I have some small blade pre-forms that I was going to forge for Blade Show and ran out of time. They might fit the bill for what you're wanting.
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by JeeperCreeper » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:00 pm

When I first read Moab's posts... I was like, "yeah, I agree, expensive knives suck!"

The when I read Storm Crow's posts... I was like "yeah, I agree, crappy quality knives suck!"

I think it really comes down to the law of diminishing returns. If I spend a shit ton of money on a knife, it better be better than what I can buy for $15. I don't always think that expensive means better, and I value value.

Obviously it depends on role and user.
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by moab » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:46 pm

I could afford a $400 knife. But I have so many plans for improving other gear i need more - its holding me back. But im not sure that will change.

Maybe if i were just a guy in the military or only concerned about my personal blade. I could invest that much in a knife.

But i have so many other preps waiting to be bought. I can't justify it. I still need a lot more ammo. More weapon optics. More work done on my bug out vehicle. More things to get lighter weight. Not to mention actual home preps ie water storage, fuel storage, long term food items etc. That spending that much on a knife just doesn't make sense. I don't even have any caches.

Which isn't to say a $400 knife isn't worth it. I think it is if your the right person in the right situation. Like a soldier who only has to concern himself with personal gear or a single guy with a lot of disposable income. That just wants to prep for hunting or bugging out or some other more limited activities. Or someone in a different financial situation or one whos already purchased the necessary bug out and prepping suppliez.

I would have much rather bought a 5 inch blade from stormcrow than my esee 5. But it fit the bill between a cheap mora (which i also use. No hate for the moras) and a more expensive blade like stormcrows.

And i need to buy blades for my other two family members too. I have blades for them already from ones I've collected over the years. But if i had to buy new I'd probably settle for something in the $100 range. But that's just me and the financial and gear collected category that I'm in.

I personally can't wait to see his cnc production stuff. As it may be closer to my price category. I love his blade design. Would also like to see a more ergonomic handle design. But that's just because i have smaller fat hands. Lol. And can't afford a custom order.

I have trouble with most blades handles except those contoured ergonomically and smaller around.

The esee 5 has terrible stock scales for me. So the g10s were a huge improvement. I think on a cnc production knife id have the ability to more easily customize some micarta scales. I much prefer micarta over g10. Micarta has a much better grip and natural feel to me.
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by Storm Crow » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:54 pm

Moab - You have the right idea with priorities. :)

I don't try to convince people to buy anything from me, I just post pics and explain my thoughts and construction details. What I make will be appropriate for some folks, and not appropriate for many more. There was a fellow who came on ZS years ago, posted a wall of pictures of the knives he made, then his second or third post was, "Ok, let's make the official ZS knife! Some kind of big ol' Bowie." Most folks said that a scandi ground puuko would be what they'd look for. Then he had a thread on why custom knives were necessarily better than factory knives. A lot of folks disagreed with him. He disappeared off this forum, and a couple of years later disappeared from the knife world with a lot of angry people who had paid deposits and not gotten knives. :roll:
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by moab » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:12 pm

Storm Crow wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:54 pm
I don't try to convince people to buy anything from me, I just post pics and explain my thoughts and construction details.
I find that refreshing. And I love that you stay around here. Many have gone. And you're still hear. Speaks volumes.

So what small blades do you have planned? I mean "small for you". lol! Like in the 4-5 inch range.

Lastly, were you at all impressed with the video of the guy from Alone sharpening his knife that way? To help it do a number of things? Your a machete guy (that's an understatement). I figure you must have a ton of insight into machetes.
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Re: Can someone explain this style of blade to me?

Post by Storm Crow » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:23 am

My Little Rok design is about a 4" blade. Every once in a while someone wants a 3" blade from me, but 4" is about as short as I go.

Imagemidtech03 by James Helm, on Flickr

Tall flat grind with a secondary bevel (not present in that pic as it hadn't been sharpened yet).

The video with the machete is interesting. The philosophy of what he did is very similar to the philosophy of the Tracker or M18, on a longer, thinner blade. I've spent a lot of time on the back end of a machete, but it's mostly been on Tramontinas. I haven't gotten to run an Ontario, but I'd take a Tramontina over my Cold Steel Latin machete any day.

1095 (that Ontario uses) is a good blade steel, though higher carbon than I'd probably run on a machete, m'self. The Rockwell on their HT seems appropriate, and 1/8" is going to be on the stouter end for a machete. In my experience, wooden machete handles tend to be blocky and short for my paws, with plastic handles being much more ergonomic and appropriately sized.

All in all, seems like a good choice for his starting point and reasonable, well-thought out mods. The size is big enough for most tasks while staying compact and light weight. Just from watching the video, I can see why he would end up winning his season of Alone.
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