AT pulk trip.

Share a survival experience with us and explain what you learned from it. You might help someone.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
Woods Walker
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 9404
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:15 pm
Location: CT

AT pulk trip.

Post by Woods Walker » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:53 pm

AT pulk trip.

The trip I had planned for last weekend got delayed so decided to go mid week instead. Took the pulk sled, EMR, Kifaru 4-man tipi with liner, Kifaru small stove on the Appalachian Trail for a little winter camping.

Image

Image

Loaded the Kifaru EMR with large POD on the pulk and headed off.

Image

Image

The classic 4-man tipi camp.

Image

The temperature was dropping like a stone so cut extra wood for the stove. But overdid it. My fingers froze during the 45 minutes spent finding then cutting up small stove sized wood chunks. Even now my finger tips don’t feel right. Should have set the stove up first then cut the bulk of the wood. The stove was burning though wood much faster than normal. The weather was a bit funky. Felt like a very large cold air mass was moving in.

Image

I used a very fluffy down sleeping bag and the Downmat 9DLX. This is a whole lot of down.

Image

Corn beef hash. Canned food is one of the advantages for using a sled.

Image

Messing around in the bush looking for wood, some light snow and sitting on my butt chopping wood resulted in some wet clothing. The stove dried it all out.

Image

Tipi liner keeping the frozen condensation off my back and reducing drafts.

Image

The pulk was a nice way to take a load off my back. Also worked good to push cut wood into the tent. I was on a 5-mile stretch that didn’t have any steep climbs beyond 1000 feet with good switch backs. I don’t think the sled would have worked as well in the higher elevations. Was a fun trip but got cold on the trail during some downtime and looking for wood.
Image

"There's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing"
"Do not mess with the forces of Nature, for thou art small and biodegradable!"

Best of Woods Walker's posts.

User avatar
Molon Labe
* * * * *
Posts: 5076
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:45 am
Location: Glendale, AZ

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Molon Labe » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:18 am

Sounded like my kind of fun. 8)

Why do you think the pulk wouldn't have worked as well in the higher alts.? The sleds my plt. used in Alaska worked flawlessly, for the most part.
Molon labe: Underwater Fire Starter-
"Tis' not shackles of iron that will chain the people, but apathy. Twill' not be weapons of steel that will keep them free, but the will to act."
Thor wrote: Never did sling load that Gama Goat.
Image You can't stop the signal.

User avatar
Woods Walker
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 9404
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:15 pm
Location: CT

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Woods Walker » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:48 am

The terrain in those sections of the AT would be less friendly to the pulk. On the level it is a free ride. Basically your load has almost has no weight or at least it feels that way. I had 75-80 lbs in the sled. Now going downhill it pushes on my harness. Uphill it drags some. With snow shoes or spikes that is not so bad and still far easier than humping a pack. But scampering over large rocks and ledge is another matter.
Image

"There's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing"
"Do not mess with the forces of Nature, for thou art small and biodegradable!"

Best of Woods Walker's posts.

User avatar
Molon Labe
* * * * *
Posts: 5076
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:45 am
Location: Glendale, AZ

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Molon Labe » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:18 am

Woods Walker wrote:The terrain in those sections of the AT would be less friendly to the pulk. On the level it is a free ride. Basically your load has almost has no weight or at least it feels that way. I had 75-80 lbs in the sled. Now going downhill it pushes on my harness. Uphill it drags some. With snow shoes or spikes that is not so bad and still far easier than humping a pack. But scampering over large rocks and ledge is another matter.
Ah, so it's a more rocky type of terrain, gotcha. Yeah, areas like that can be a bitch on sleds.
Molon labe: Underwater Fire Starter-
"Tis' not shackles of iron that will chain the people, but apathy. Twill' not be weapons of steel that will keep them free, but the will to act."
Thor wrote: Never did sling load that Gama Goat.
Image You can't stop the signal.

User avatar
Lenny
* * * * *
Posts: 1968
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:04 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: All of the them, even the super cheesy unrealistic ones.
Location: Orygun

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Lenny » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:20 pm

Thanks for the post. In two weeks I was planning on trying this idea for my self. I have never done it this way. I have NO idea what do about a harness. Could you please post a picture of your harness or idea's on how to rig one. Thanks, Lenny
Oderint Dum Metuant

"A knot ....is either exactly right or it is hopelessly wrong. Make only one change...and either an entirely different knot is made or no knot at all may exist." Clifford W. Ashley

User avatar
crypto
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 16637
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: City of Saint Louis

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by crypto » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:26 pm

In a pinch, web gear like a LBE or a molle FLC would get the job done for cheap.
MF'N TEAM LEADER

"Some people think that the best way to stop the leopard is to cut the horns off the gazelle. This, my friends, is insane."

Image
Image

User avatar
Woods Walker
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 9404
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:15 pm
Location: CT

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Woods Walker » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:43 pm

crypto wrote:In a pinch, web gear like a LBE or a molle FLC would get the job done for cheap.
Yup in fact I use a MOLLE 1 harness and it works great as the belt attaches to the load bearing vest. The FLC of later Gen molle gear has a much thinner belt. This is the only part of the trash Molle 1 system I like and only do so because of the pulk. Guessing the newer FLC would work almost as well. I have two 200 round saw pouches and a zippered medical pouch on the vest. The belt gets one canteen pocket. This system works great as I can drink and access clothing items like hats etc that are sometimes removed so I can cool down. Here are some photos from last year.

Image

Image
Image

"There's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing"
"Do not mess with the forces of Nature, for thou art small and biodegradable!"

Best of Woods Walker's posts.

User avatar
Zoltan
* * * * *
Posts: 2631
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:41 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead; Dawn of the Dead(remake); 28 Days Later; 28 Weeks Later; Army of Darkness; Dead & Breakfast; I am Legend; Pet Sematary;
Location: NorCal
Contact:

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Zoltan » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:52 pm

Wow, that is pretty cool!! Shoulda brought a doggie to pull the sled for you and for company!! j/k

That Kifaru stove looks really nice, how much does it weigh? And is it only really good to bring along when you have something like the sled to drag it on?
ZSC:XV -- California Chapter Forum

"Doctrine is the last refuge of the unimaginative." - General James "Chaos" Mattis, USMC
CLEAR CUT wrote:Chloroform soaked rag in a ziplock baggie, Duct tape, ten milligrams of Ketamine in a syringe, and a bottle of Roofies....It must be date night!
Image

User avatar
Lenny
* * * * *
Posts: 1968
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:04 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: All of the them, even the super cheesy unrealistic ones.
Location: Orygun

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Lenny » Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:23 pm

Thanks a lot!
Oderint Dum Metuant

"A knot ....is either exactly right or it is hopelessly wrong. Make only one change...and either an entirely different knot is made or no knot at all may exist." Clifford W. Ashley

User avatar
Woods Walker
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 9404
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:15 pm
Location: CT

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Woods Walker » Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:40 pm

Zoltan wrote:Wow, that is pretty cool!! Shoulda brought a doggie to pull the sled for you and for company!! j/k

That Kifaru stove looks really nice, how much does it weigh? And is it only really good to bring along when you have something like the sled to drag it on?

Without that add on homemade stack robber around 3lbs and packs down to smaller than a lap top. I backpack the thing all the time and it is part of my BOB for the coldest winter months.
Image

"There's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing"
"Do not mess with the forces of Nature, for thou art small and biodegradable!"

Best of Woods Walker's posts.

User avatar
Zoltan
* * * * *
Posts: 2631
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:41 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead; Dawn of the Dead(remake); 28 Days Later; 28 Weeks Later; Army of Darkness; Dead & Breakfast; I am Legend; Pet Sematary;
Location: NorCal
Contact:

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Zoltan » Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:19 pm

Damn, that's pretty good and I can definitely see why you bring it. That thing is a morale booster like no other in the freeze!!
ZSC:XV -- California Chapter Forum

"Doctrine is the last refuge of the unimaginative." - General James "Chaos" Mattis, USMC
CLEAR CUT wrote:Chloroform soaked rag in a ziplock baggie, Duct tape, ten milligrams of Ketamine in a syringe, and a bottle of Roofies....It must be date night!
Image

User avatar
Woods Walker
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 9404
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:15 pm
Location: CT

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Woods Walker » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:37 pm

Zoltan wrote:Damn, that's pretty good and I can definitely see why you bring it. That thing is a morale booster like no other in the freeze!!
When you been out for a few days in the cold it is nice to remove the clothing, heat up some water and take a hot fake shower using a camp towel in an over 100 degree shelter. Something that is taken for granted every day is oh so good given the right environment.
Image

"There's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing"
"Do not mess with the forces of Nature, for thou art small and biodegradable!"

Best of Woods Walker's posts.

User avatar
Lenny
* * * * *
Posts: 1968
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:04 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: All of the them, even the super cheesy unrealistic ones.
Location: Orygun

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Lenny » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:40 pm

This may interest anyone else who wants to pulk.
http://www.skipulk.com/images/pulkbook.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Oderint Dum Metuant

"A knot ....is either exactly right or it is hopelessly wrong. Make only one change...and either an entirely different knot is made or no knot at all may exist." Clifford W. Ashley

User avatar
Woods Walker
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 9404
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:15 pm
Location: CT

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Woods Walker » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:07 pm

Lenny wrote:This may interest anyone else who wants to pulk.
http://www.skipulk.com/images/pulkbook.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ed is a stand up guy. I got the pole kit from him and used my own Paris sled.
Image

"There's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing"
"Do not mess with the forces of Nature, for thou art small and biodegradable!"

Best of Woods Walker's posts.

Dark Cloud
* * *
Posts: 502
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:35 am
Location: Southern Appalachia

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Dark Cloud » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:15 am

You're bumming me out. This is some of the kind of stuff I sued to do in 10th Mountain, but bad lungs (bronchitis/pneumonia - never could get hooked on cigarettes) limit my field tiem to blue skies and sunshine in summer.
Dark Cloud

Sometimes, somebody's gotta cry.

User avatar
WILLIE
BANNED
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:29 pm
Location: Florida

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by WILLIE » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:03 pm

Wow, great post. You are far better set up for northern winter camping then most. Good information along with fantastic photos. Does the snow on the ground inside the tent melt? If so, does that create a messy situation, or does it dry/evaporate as it melts?
Image

User avatar
mk_ultra
* * * * *
Posts: 3880
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:14 pm
Location: Mpls , Mn

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by mk_ultra » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:28 pm

WILLIE wrote:Wow, great post. You are far better set up for northern winter camping then most. Good information along with fantastic photos. Does the snow on the ground inside the tent melt? If so, does that create a messy situation, or does it dry/evaporate as it melts?

Yeah , I am wondering about this as well , and also what sort of condensation issues you have to deal with .

As always , great post . :D
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence - Vyvyan

User avatar
Woods Walker
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 9404
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:15 pm
Location: CT

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Woods Walker » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:14 pm

To melt snow and ice takes a massive amount of BTUs. If the snow base is under 18 inches I stomp and kick the stuff aside often leaving maybe a few inches. The stove will melt the snow 18 inches all around. I think there is a photo of frozen condensation on the outside of my liner up against the tipi’s outer wall. Often unless it is snowing etc the frost raises to about the height of the stove. Check the frost photos in this thread for a reference. But once the stove dies down the whole inside of the shelter if conditions are right can frost over with the exception of the small area just above the candle lantern that is sometimes run all night. The lantern lights up the inside of the shelter and adds 5-10 degrees if the floor gaps are covered. But if the wind hits the tent hard and overnight conditions were just right I can get a little frozen mist inside the tent. This will be dried up after ½ an hour of AM stove burn. If using the liner I have ZERO condensation issues at any time.

Now if on a deep base of 2-5 feet I need to float the whole camp. I stomp down the snow with the snowshoes and allow it to set for 45 minutes. Use this time to construct the stove, chop wood and do all the camp jobs minus setting up the shelter. Once the snow hardens I use a pole platform to support the tent and stove. Use snow pegs for the tie-offs. Later this weekend I am going to make some new snow pegs for a trip upstate. The snow is about 3-4 feet deep in the mountains. The stove will the melt this base some but not enough to affect the pole/stove support. The next day I add a little powder under the platform which by now has some hard ice from the previous day’s melt.

Condensation is more of a personal preference as to its effects. All single walled shelters will develop condensation issues. A wood stove is one of the best anti condensation device known as the heat unlike propane is very very dry. So even with any melt the stove will dry off clothing items as was done on this trip. I have taken hot snow baths inside my shelter with an outside temp far below zero. Water dripping all over the place but after a few hours the stove ate it all up. As stated a liner puts a stop to all of this as it does not allow any drips to fall back into the shelter. My smaller Paratipi does not have a liner however between the stove and my general lack of too much consern for these issues it is not a problem.
Image

"There's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing"
"Do not mess with the forces of Nature, for thou art small and biodegradable!"

Best of Woods Walker's posts.

User avatar
Woods Walker
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 9404
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:15 pm
Location: CT

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Woods Walker » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:37 pm

On a side note here is a trick for pitching a grounded tarp shelter over moderate snow. I use a combo a Ti nail pegs with 6-8 inch tie-off loops and Easton tubular Aluminum pegs without loops. This way I can follow the contours of the ground and raise the shelter a bit higher.

Image

Then I kick snow over the gaps.

Image

So inside the shelter it is less drafty and will hold stove/body heat better.


Image

The same would work for any grounded tarp pitch. Just remember to allow some air flow into the shelter but this would not be a problem with more commonly setup modified A-frame tarp shelters. Still even with those open ended tarps covered sides do help keep the wind out if pitched with sides to the prevailing winds.
Image

"There's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing"
"Do not mess with the forces of Nature, for thou art small and biodegradable!"

Best of Woods Walker's posts.

User avatar
mk_ultra
* * * * *
Posts: 3880
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:14 pm
Location: Mpls , Mn

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by mk_ultra » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:02 am

Awesome , thanks for the new info . :D
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence - Vyvyan

Dak Kovar
* * * * *
Posts: 1549
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:24 pm
Location: Stacking mags on Candy Mountain

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Dak Kovar » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:15 pm

Another great post. Nice use of the Molle harness. I really like your tent.

DK
"I don't wan't to be the ruler of this world... I want to be the ruler of another world."
"Well he should have armed himself...if he's gonna decorate his saloon with my friend."
"...And you can keep that silly fat wanker. The lads can't lift him."

Image

User avatar
Zoltan
* * * * *
Posts: 2631
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:41 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead; Dawn of the Dead(remake); 28 Days Later; 28 Weeks Later; Army of Darkness; Dead & Breakfast; I am Legend; Pet Sematary;
Location: NorCal
Contact:

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Zoltan » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:14 pm

Cool, nice post. I like the idea of kicking the snow to cover the gaps.

What about tents that come with floors? Are you against them, or it's just that the Kifaru tent has the exhaust opening for the stove and you can't use a tent with a floor because the stove might damage it?

Have you found a good tent with a floor tough enough to lives up to your needs when you aren't using the stove?
ZSC:XV -- California Chapter Forum

"Doctrine is the last refuge of the unimaginative." - General James "Chaos" Mattis, USMC
CLEAR CUT wrote:Chloroform soaked rag in a ziplock baggie, Duct tape, ten milligrams of Ketamine in a syringe, and a bottle of Roofies....It must be date night!
Image

User avatar
Woods Walker
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 9404
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:15 pm
Location: CT

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Woods Walker » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:00 am

Zoltan wrote:Cool, nice post. I like the idea of kicking the snow to cover the gaps.

What about tents that come with floors? Are you against them, or it's just that the Kifaru tent has the exhaust opening for the stove and you can't use a tent with a floor because the stove might damage it?

Have you found a good tent with a floor tough enough to lives up to your needs when you aren't using the stove?
The no floor thing is hard for people to get a handle on. The wood stove would trash the floor. A floor adds more weight and bulk to a tent. A floor traps water. I can walk into the tent with my boots on. I can scoop up snow to melt inside the tent. Dump water and not worry about it. I can pitch the tent over rocks etc and not worry about it. Take a snow bath when the stove is running hot. I do use a ground cloth under my sleeping pad/bag. Also hang out on a closed cell pad/mat but would do that in winter with a floored tent too. Being a tarp camper at heart I am often drier under a tarp/floorless shelter during extended rain as I know where and how to pitch the shelter/tarp.

But I am not against tents with floors. In heavy bug season I like a floor but can keep most out with the bug net doors. I did have this big nasty spider crawl on my eye one Fall outing in the tipi. Tossed the SOB into the stove. Also a waterproof floor is nice if the shelter is pitched on ground with poor drainage but this can’t be counted on 100%. For some a floor adds a feeling of security. Sure that for the most part is physiological but still it can’t be discounted. I get the opposite feeling with a floored tent. I don’t like not being able to see around me. So the Hennessy hammock or tarp and bivy combo is the most comfortable shelter when it comes to the things that go bump in the night for me. I like my Golite Hex as it can be used floorless or with the addition of bug nest a fully enclosed shelter for heavy bug season. Also own an OR double bug bivy that in effect is a little inner floored tent that I add a tarp over the top. Basically a floored tent in all but name. I sometimes use a Gortex bivy tent. This is like a USGI bivy but has small poles and a door with bug netting. It is nice and keeps the wind off my face. Sometimes use the USGI 2-man tent for car camping.
Image

"There's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing"
"Do not mess with the forces of Nature, for thou art small and biodegradable!"

Best of Woods Walker's posts.

User avatar
Towanda
* * * * *
Posts: 3662
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:02 am
Location: Ypsilanti, MI

Re: AT pulk trip.

Post by Towanda » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:36 am

Nice photos! Sounds like a good trip. Thanks for the essay about floorless tents, too. I've looked at the Golite Hex before because Kifaru is simply out of my range.
Holding a grudge is like swallowing poison and expecting someone else to die.

Image
SMoAF wrote:You could have your very own Trunk SMoAF. That'd HAVE to have some practical value for you.

Post Reply

Return to “Survival Experiences”