Katrina Experiences - Note this is very long

[Brash]

I showed this thread to my girlfriend and she actually had nightmares.

[Jamie]

I showed this thread to my girlfriend and she actually had nightmares.

My wife asked me why we have so much food/water in the pantry, and I showed her the OP...Thanks Raptor!

nfa

[raptor]

It really depended on the situation and the person. I would look at the person and see what they may want at the time. The bribe might be as simple as a cold coke or Gatorade or may have been a few hundred dollars. Let me also stress no one ever said to me I will let you do "it" for $100. My experience is that the only people uttering phases like that outside of the movies are about to either set you up or they are so corrupt that your life is possibly in danger. View it as if you are giving a tip.

I have lived in 3rd world countries and can generally "read" people, especially officials.

When paying cash I would hand them a drink and discretely use a $20 bill or $100 as the "napkin" wrapped around the drink. I would then offer my hand in a handshake and keep the same smile on my face. No winks, nods or anything else like that.

When I traveled, I kept an ice chest with soft drinks, Gatorade or water along with MREs and about $1,000 cash in $10, $20 or $100 in my pocket separate from my wallet and ID.

Never, ever take out your wallet, reach in and take out money, nor should you whip out a huge wad of cash. Do not say "how much will it take", do not be overt or crude. You will be surprised how much you can do with a smile, pleasant banter and something a person wants. The most overt I got was to hand the guy my papers, let him tell me "to get the hell out of his face" and then ask him what I had to do to get where I wanted to go. I would wait for his reaction. If he offered information I would then say "well you seem to be charge could you approve it?" I would wait for the response and either conclude the deal knowing it would be expensive or go elsewhere. If his reaction was belligerent and negative, no amount of persuasion would work, you should leave immediately and either try later or some where else.

I also gave out suntan lotion, mosquito repellant, ice, clean towels, baby wipes. These were always welcomed.

I also would give out MREs and drinks to people (looters or survivors) as well a $10 or even $20 bill on occasion. My logic for this was; I did not like the MREs and if I could avoid a confrontation and danger to me and or my group for an MRE, cold coke and $10, that is a cheap transaction. Beside a magazine or cylinder of bullets can cost more than the $10.

What is interesting is that most "looters" were generally satisfied with a cold coke and few kind words. Having said that, I always kept a compact 9mm or 357 snubbie in my pocket and when I was "being nice" to the looters/survivors I also was ready to end the conversation suddenly and if necessary violently.

Finally try to use the same checkpoints so people there know you. Just like in business it is not what you know or what you have, so much as who you know. I used 2 main check points and I became known as "Ben" (Ben Franklin is on the $100 bill). I knew I had made when one sentry waved and shouted to his commander "it’s OK, it is Ben!" When that happened, there were Cokes all around for everyone and everyone needed a "napkin" to reinforce the positive experience of seeing me. They never asked for money but they remembered me and treated me well. I always took care of them (There were 6 guys at that command post/ check point working the day shift and they were there for 6 weeks). I was kinda sorry to see them go.

One final note, the value of bater goods changed rapidly due to supply and demand. Initially real MREs (with a heater of all things!) were in high demand. Then they became the proverbial fruit cake; people them gave to you, but nobody really wanted to eat them. Gas was worth its weight in gold and diesel was even more valuable initially, but once the supplies were up and available they lost thier value beyond retail for barter purposes. Personal toiletries like sun tan lotion, mosquito repellant, BABY WIPES! of all things, hand sanitizers and clean towels all were very useful to trade.

The one item that held its value was a cold soft drink or bottled water! I suspect in cold climes a hot drink will hold the same value.

[raptor]

This is my stores inventory I have omitted quantities because your needs should be dictated by the number of people you will have to provision for as well as the climate. Colder areas require more calories than the tropics.

You will also note that it relatively protein poor and have a lot of starches. I normally eat a lot of fresh vegetables and fruit with smaller portions of meat poultry and fish. I eat out a lot also so I am used to a wide variety of foods when I do eat. Clearly the general advice to provision as you would normally eat is good advice but impossible in my case. I have yet to find freeze dried sushi, Waldorf salads, crab meat salads or beef Wellington. Neither can I find shelf stable entrees that taste good beyond the grilled chicken patties.

I planed on using the MREs protein to mix in with other fresher ingredients. Now my plan is to procure fresh products in an as yet undetermined method

I get the shelf stable stuff from 2 places:

http://www.longlifefood.com/ They sell quality MRES, but they also sell entrees separately so you can stock up in things like Grilled chicken breasts w/o the expense of all of the other stuff that is put in MREs

http://www.nutrisystem.com/ (yes it is diet food but is long lived and has a wider variety than MREs)

I retain a supply of MREs because of its convenience and handiness. I view it as more of a last resort or a standby supply.

By the way, I buy the canned and dry stuff at Sam’s and check the expiration date. I recycle 1/3 of everything every year. I donate the oldest goods to the local food kitchen or homeless shelter and restock every May. The water and soft drinks I continuously use and keep these as minimum stocking levels.

I store all of the goods in a climate controlled storage room on the ground floor. This is potential weakness due to the possibility of flooding. Next time I have to evacuate (Katrina was the first time I ever fled the city) I will move as much as I can upstairs.

I was able to drive to Baton Rouge to buy groceries, but the place reminded me of refugee camp! Be sure to bring a couple of ice chests (with ice) for any frozen or refrigerated stuff, the drive home can be 2 or more hours!

My palate is likely different from yours, it is New Orleans after all, even after Katrina food is king here. Some of these things may be foreign to you. This works for me though.

Note because the house lost power (I have to manually start the generator and switch over to generator power) for a week all of the food in the refrigerator and freezer was ruined. So all I had was the items below. However, once I cleaned out the refrigerator (yuck! I would rather change diapers!) I could obtain fresh food and keep it fresh. Most people will not be so lucky as to have a generator.

Dry goods
Spaghetti
Rice
Macaroni and cheese mix
Dirty rice mix
Jambalaya mix
Bisquick biscuit mix
Pancake mix
Instant potatoes
Quick grits mix
Instant milk
Dehydrated whole eggs

Canned goods
Canned spaghetti sauce
Canned Green beans
Canned Ravioli
Blue Runner Red beans
Pork & beans
Chili with & w/o beans
Canned Ham (not spam)
Beef stew
Chicken noodle soup
Beef vegetable soup
Fruit salad
Pineapples
Tuna

Miscellaneous
Honey
Peanut butter
Salt
Pepper
Tabasco sauce
Crab boil
Vegetable oil
Olive oil
Vinegar
Canned butter
Sugar

Long Shelf Life food
MRE enough for 1 meal per day for group for 14 days
Grilled chicken breasts (from long life depot MRE style)
Assorted entrées from Nutra System
Canned dehydrated vegetables

Snacks
Popcorn (both regular and microwave)
Cheese and cracker packs
Rice crispy treats
Oreo cookies in snack packs
Nuts
Saltine crackers
Ritz crackers
Powered donuts in snack packs
Granola bars in snack packs

Drinks:
Coffee – Lots and lots of it!
Tea
Gatorade mix – gallon mix 1 case
Water in 20oz bottles 24 per case 6 cases
Water in 5 gallon jugs 10 bottles
Coke regular – 4 cases
Coke diet – 1 case
Dr Pepper – 2 cases
Orange juice 32 oz cans
Pineapple juice 32 oz cans
Gatorade in 16 or 20oz bottles – 2 cases

[Duxman]

Raptor - very good tips and information here.

Did you encounter a lot of folks who were coming over to your place ?

Or did you encounter most of the folks on your way to friend's home on the street etc.?

Also for the LEO types who came over - were they in pairs, squads or larger groups?

[raptor]

Jefferson Parish sheriff deputies (JPSO) did come to my house and pass by every day. They are the local police force were I live. The NG patrolled only Orleans Parish and the flooded areas. The JPSO & NOPD always patrolled in cars or trucks in groups of mainly 2 sometimes 3 people. The out of state LEO groups always tended to congregate in groups of 4 or more but I saw them most often guarding a fixed position, check point or building so my observations my be skewed. The NG did likewise though they tended to control intersections and check points on the parish border. The regular army seemed to always have either 2 or 4 people and generally traveled in pairs of Humvees and were either mobile or camped out en mass in the parking lot for Wallyworld or a similar store.

There was no mandatory evacuation of Jefferson Parish (JP) and in fact there were road blocks making sure streams of refugees did not come in to JP initially. In fact there was a shameful incident on the Mississippi River Bridge where flood refugees were turned away and shot at by the City of Gretna PD (a small incorporated city in JP with its own police force). http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/ ... 9440.shtml

Like the Danziger bridge incident, the facts are in dispute and I will withhold judgment until the case is adjudicated. It has been turned into a racial incident though it likely was not racial, but rather just a bad day in a string of bad days.

So no there were not throngs of people coming to my house, nor did the NOPD or NG come to my house.

I encountered a wide variety of people on trips into the city with my friends to check on their businesses and/or property. While I live in JP, I have business interests in Orleans Parish (some of which were flooded) which similarly required many days and a few nights in the “field”. I also went with other authorized commercial responders in a boat for one day, until for some reason the short handed, understaffed, under equipted authorities decided volunteers were a liability. That is where I encountered the little old lady whose pet was shot. I encountered her sitting on the ground weeping while waiting for ride to bring her to God knows where. At the time I could not tell if she was telling the truth or just in shock, though I do believe her story now, I have no way of proving it since I have no idea who she was.

Most of the people I encountered were either at check points or on the street. Remember when you went in you generally had to spend the day since you were not sure you could get back in the next day. On occasions I had to spent the night for that reason and the fact that I was uncomfortable traversing the streets at night.

[TheLastRifleMan]

Raptor, this has been an incredible post and thanks for sharing all this information. I don't think a value could ever be placed on it!

I like what you said about a generator being loud and conspicuous. The car muffler idea is a good one, as well as a tri fuel one.

I have a small Honda generator that I purchased used but in excellent shape about ten years ago. I am not sure if they still make them this line of machines, but it is very quiet when running and does not have the signature "generator" sound.

One small hint: I use my generator a few times in the summer to power my electric weed trimmer. It let me now if there are any problems with it, such as not starting, and burns up older fuel. If it works OK for the weed wacker, it will work when I need it.

[cougar]

(snip)"Finally I would also point out that it was not just the NOPD & LA National Guard breaking into homes and dragging people out. It included Texas, New York, Arkansas, CA, and other state police, wildlife and fisheries agents as well as NG units and regular army! All I encountered proved bribable; greed is hardwired into the basic human brain."


Well now, thats food for thought.

[raptor]

Excercising the generator is good idea. Mine are set to crank up and run for 30 minutes every 7 days. I have them checked and serviced each May. I change the coolant , oil and fan belt at that point. I change the starting battery every 3 years At that time I run them for several hours under load to make sure the transfer swich is opertational and the generator is running normally.

[Duxman]

Raptor -

This is definately one of the best - if not the best real world PAW type experience post. Definately a worth a bookmark.

Thank you so much for sharing.

[Georgewelds]

I gave a 2 week pay advance to everyone before they left telling everyone to be safe

Dude, you are the man. I'd feel honoured to be your employee. That is just plan old integrity.

[raptor]

memory dump on this subject.

Are there any questions that I failed to answer from those who posed questions?

[zXzGrifterzXz]

Hell of a write up, thank you.

[raptor]

Oh you know what, there is one final story that I forgot to relate. It is simply a local color story though.

My business partner who has significant wealth had a home that was flooded. Inside the home was as I refer to it “name brand art”. Originals whose artist names would be recognized by most people. the collection was worth a lot of money. He lived in an enclave which has a pool house over 3,000 sg ft, never mind the main house or guest house. Anyway a few of his neighbors hired Blackwater to provide security while the place was flooded. We could not move the art out since the risk of “name brand” art in a boat is too risky for the insurance company. The art was hanging on the wall about 3 feet above the water level and was safe but we just could not get to it safely because of debris, etc.

So these Blackwater guys hunkered down on the second story of his home and a couple of his neighbors homes and kept looters out. They lived there for over 2 weeks.

Anyway the water finally goes down and we drive in with a truck with several guys including my partner and I. We chainsaw and yank trees out of the street so we can drive the truck up to the front yard and load up the art work.

There about 6 of us and 2 of my guys are providing “security” but we were not openly carrying weapons because we knew the Blackwater guys were around. We had them stashed away so we were not mistaken for looters. Anyway this non-descript guy with a Glock and two mags in a holster comes walking up to my partner non-chalantly. My partner hands him his card and says what was obviously a password to this guy. The guy is cool and everybody goes to do their thing.

Meanwhile the Blackwater guy and my partner are talking. I notice something about the BW guy that does not look right. I could not place it at first, but then it hit me. His pants were pressed and he was wearing a clean tee shirt. Meanwhile I look around at our guys and everyone is drenched in sweat and looks like a bum, especially me. However then it really dawns on me, not only is the guy clean but he is not sweating very much at all. I then eye the guy and I realize he is one of those very lean, muscular people, who because they have so little body fat, hardly sweat. It is then that I realize his non-chalant walk was really just that. He did not need that Glock to kill everyone there. He could probably rip everyone’s head off and kill them without need of a weapon. We were absolutely no threat in his eyes.

He had been camping out in a flooded house for 2 weeks and was going home and he looked better than we did after being on the job less than hour!

No lesson just local color.

[variable]

raptor,

It's good to have you here. Always good to have people with the same mindset close. Great posts...

[JWarren]

Thanks for your experiences Raptor!

I went through it on the other side of the lake, and didn't evacuate. It was basically an 8 Week SHTF for us. I've been working on a SHTF primer for TheHighRoad.org from a rural perspective, and I'd love to talk to you about some of your perspectives.


By the way, I used to live in your neck of the woods. I lived in the "Bucktown" area of Metairie for a number of years--but my career took me out of there about 10 years ago.


John

[raptor]

Nothing personal JWarren, but the reason I chose this board and this forum was to get the experiences I had out in the public domain while maintaining some privacy and anonimity.

I am hoping that society as whole will come to the realization, that civilization can evaprorate with a simple blackout and therefore prepare better than we do now. A prepared society is an aware society and disaster are less likely to happen if everyone is prepared for them and hoepfully tries to prevent them which is the ultimate preparation strategy.

Having said that. I would be more than happy to communicate with you on the subject on this forum.

[variable]

raptor,

Just so I don't bother anyone who is not interested, I take you would not be interested in having meetings down here like they do in St. Louis?

[raptor]

Variable, but I am happy to communicate with you and anyone else via the forum.

I would point out that in the event of another evacuation, this forum may provide a very useful alternate means to communicate with one another since it is available via the net. After katrina many of the other local BBS were choked with messages.

[variable]

raptor,

That's cool. I was just thinking if I found enough people who live in our area we might be able to start our own chapter like some of the other areas. I just want to make sure I don't "bother" anyone not interested in that. I appreciate your honesty.

Again great posts. I was able to learn a few things for next time...

[raptor]

JWarren I looked at thehighroad.org forum. It appears to be a very interesting forum. I will make a point to visit it. But it reminded me of a point I wanted to make.

I am going to climb on my soapbox now and I am not addressing to anyone in particular.

Too many people think planning and preparation involves having the best rifle, the best shotgun, the best pistol and enough ammunition to hold off an army. Too many people turn it into some kind of video game. When the SHTF it will not be pretty or fun, it will be dirty, grimy and smelly and not something that you want to do. I would prefer never to have to go thought that situation every again. However, two monster storms have hit in my lifetime (Camille and Katrina) I certainly expect another so I deal with it.

Preparation involves many more skills than firearms and gunsmithing, stock piling food and water. In addition to worrying about the adequacy of an arsenal you should worry about how do I perform basic plumbing jobs, how to disconnect or reconnect an electrical meter from a house, how to fix the generator, flat tire or nail on a tarp or shingles to patch a roof. Basic electrical, plumbing, car repairs and carpentry skills are always skills that you can use and if necessary trade for goods in a prolonged SHTF situation. Knowledge and skills are fundementally valuable.

In Orleans Parish there was one guy who stayed open and did nothing but fix flat tires on cars. He had a skill very much in demand and no one messed with him because he was “harmless and useful”. A perception of harmless and useful is a very good position to be in.

Fundamentally you cannot stock pile enough food, water and ammunition to last the rest of your life. However, knowledge and skills do not go stale nor can anyone take them away. Technology may change but you can adapt your skill set.

The other skill is the mindset of survival/awareness, identifying potential risks and how they evolve, coping with the stress and thinking outside of the box. I like to quote a movie line, the hero when asked what was his favorite weapon said “My brains”. I am not saying firearms are not necessary, all I am saying is training and knowledge are every bit as important.

I will get off my soapbox now.

[Brash]

I will get off my soapbox now.

Go ahead and stay up there. I've gotten a lot from reading your posts.

[TheLastRifleMan]

+1. I have learned more on this thread over the last week then I can really fathom...

[jamoni]

One thing, and I hope no one from Louisiana takes this the wrong way, is that bribery will work a lot better in Louisiana than in most places. I lived there for 3 years, and found the police there to be far more corrupt than in any other area I'd lived in. This was statewide, from what I could tell from traveling to Baton Rouge, NOLA, Shrevesport, Lake Charles, etc. Something that would get winked at in Louisiana may very well get you locked up anywhere else.