On 3 year olds and forced marches

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On 3 year olds and forced marches

Postby Ricky Romero » Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:37 am

Yesterday was one of my days to have my son (his mom and I are split up). My new GF took the car to work, leaving us at home. I had a $15 gift card to a chain grocery store that I got from my employer for Christmas, and a newly assembled hydration pack/mini-BOB just itching to get some miles put in. Right as I was about to suggest a trek, (not sure, but I think the grocery store is about 3 miles away) my son asks me for a banana. Yes! We have no bananas. So off we go.

It was a great start. Talking about everything going on around us (this was a semi-urban hike), stopping regularly to hydrate, introducing my boy to the fine art of public urination (recently stopped wearing diapers). I was very proud. Kids these days don't walk ANYWHERE. And here was a 3 year old holding his own on a 3 mile hike. :D He was great all the way to the store. At one point, he fell down on the sidewalk, hurting his right knee. No tears, but he did want me to carry him for a little while. I put my mini-BOB on his back, and put him on my back. This was not only more comfortable than carrying him in my arms, but he thought it was way cool to wear my "packpack". 8)

At the store, he had time to rest in the shopping cart. We got his bananas and a cheap toy, along with other food items for our PAW pantry.

The walk back was a little more difficult. In order to make things interesting, we took an alternate route back, cutting through our miniscule downtown area. He wanted to stop at every bench and every bus stop and sit down. We opened up some Cheez-its, had a drink, and kept walking. He never got whiny, but it took constant coaxing to get him to make it home on his own power.

I did this exercise with the intention of testing my ability to do a walking bugout with mini-BOB loaded to actual weight, including 2 liters of water, and 3 year old in tow. Here are some tips if you must bug-out on foot with a kid:

1. Anticipate needs- Don't let the nagging start before you address Jr.'s desire to pee, take a drink, or stop for a second. Initiate these activities yourself. You'll make better time than if you have to stop for 10 minutes having to clean up a "meltdown". And your stress level will be lessened.

2. Keep your kid distracted by things that are 20 yards ahead of you on your path. This works by the carrot-on-a-string principle. Kid continues to walk just so he/she can look at, or touch something interesting. Then redirect them to something ahead of you again.

3. Keep talking- a silent walk feels longer.

4. Have toys on hand. Ideally, have a toy that a kid can play with with one hand while you hold the other. They will keep walking, but on autopilot mode. Kind of like walking on a treadmill while you watch TV.

5. Piggyback rides are the way to go. Sooner or later, they're going to just quit on you. If your kid is light enough, shoulder rides would be easier on your back, but anything is easier that carrying a kid in your arms.

Other suggestions for future hikes would be welcome.
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Postby Ben » Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:45 am

Have you considered having a waggon?
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Postby Ricky Romero » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:25 am

Yeah, I was going to make one of my suggestion to put wheels under the kid, be it a stroller, wagon, shopping cart, bike trailer, etc. I just thought that addressing the possibility of wheels not being an option would make for a more interactive thread. Even if you had not planned ahead (not likely here), and found yourself without wheels, a shopping cart would not be hard to find.
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Postby Jamie » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:46 am

I've been geocaching with my son since he was 2.5, and it was a great way to get him used to walking for any distance in the outdoors...water, snacks, breaks, toys, rides...all of these work well...

Also, I've found that with my boy, letting him carry a compass or GPS unit and talking about landmarks or milestones ahead of us helps him to keep going...

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Postby Ricky Romero » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:57 am

Cool. I think I'd like to do something outdoors with my boy everytime I have him. Making him an integral part of what's happening i.e. carrying the compass, is a great idea
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Postby Jamie » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:24 pm

You should check it out at their homepage...

http://www.geocaching.com/

Type in your zipcode, and you'll be surprised by how many geocaches there are within just a few miles...try ones with 1-2 star ratings on difficulty and terrain to start with, especially with a young kid...

We sold the idea of geocaching to our son by comparing it to "Indiana Jones" and hunting pirate treasure...bring cool band-aids along, and it'll be a blast!!!

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Postby Ricky Romero » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:38 pm

He'll totally go for hunting pirate treasure.

What kind of stuff do people put in those boxes?
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Postby Jamie » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:53 pm

People put things like stickers, matchbox cars, compasses, coins, flashlights, toys, bottle-openers, etc. into geocaches as trade-items.

The idea is that they are low-value prizes, and that if you take something, you should leave something of similar quality/value/coolness...you don't have to trade, but you should sign the log to show that you were there, and to share a record of your experience.

I always bring something that I know my son would like, just in case there isn't anything cool inside the cache we find...he's found about 40-50 geocaches in the 2 years he's been caching, I've found 232 since starting...in NY, CT, ME, VT, UT, CA, AZ, NV, as well as Anguilla and St. Maartin...it's a blast, and a great way to challenge yourself in the outdoors...it may sound funny, but it gets me off the couch and into places I would never have otherwise visited

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Postby Dave_M » Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:47 pm

nfa-

After reading your post it piqued my interest. I checked and there are several in my area. I went out and found my very first one this afternoon! Very cool! I left an Iraqi dinar in it. I think I've found something new for the G/F and I to do.

Thanks!
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Postby Jamie » Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:52 pm

DavePAL84 wrote:nfa-

After reading your post it piqued my interest. I checked and there are several in my area. I went out and found my very first one this afternoon! Very cool! I left an Iraqi dinar in it. I think I've found something new for the G/F and I to do.

Thanks!


Awesome!!! Welcome ot the addiction! If you, or anyone else, has any questions about geocaching, please feel free to ask me...

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Postby Vindex » Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:01 pm

I figure on a bug out I may need to run for my life; when my kid was that young I simply planned on sticking her into the stroller (jogging type with big fat wheels), 'cause a kid that young can't run for real.

Having timed the walk to the BOL from home, and comparing the times when walking alone and when walking with the kid, the kid makes the walk take 35 percent longer.

As my daughter grows older, and she gains more experience on longer walks, I'm hopeful the travel time will improve.

You may find that it helps not to tell the child the destination; if the child remembers how long it took to get there the last time, the child may put up some resistance.
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Postby jamoni » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:47 pm

Great post, and great ideas. My son is pretty hardy, and loves hiking, but we run into the same troubles. They only have so much stamina at that age. Jog strollers are great, and can also be a place to store your gear. That way they can sleep and recuperate while you move, which is harder to do with a piggy back.
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Postby TheLastRifleMan » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:55 pm

nfa and Rickey, great stuff!

I have always wondered about how my two nieces (8 and 10) would endure on such a trek. Granted, they are a bit older then your children but some of those tips woudl still work.

And yes, geochaching is great fun! It will sure teach you quick about the capabilities of your GPS and can also be a great way to get excersize and practice some basic compass and map reading skills.
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Postby Mad_Maxx » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:56 pm

Well, another idea, in case of tshtf scenario, keep a cut-off zombie head (minus teeth) in your pack, and each time the kid wants to stop, you just bring it out, going "OOOGA BOOOGA!" or something like that :P
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Postby The Ron » Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:35 am

+20 on finding new ways of spending time with your kids!
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Postby The Enforcer » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:46 am

Excellent post, Ricky! Great tips, and you actually DID it instead of being an "armchair bugout expert." Good for you to be so patient with the little trooper, too... Keep it up!

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Postby Politenessman » Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:02 am

I used to hike on Dartmoor back in the UK many years ago (for those who don`t know Dartmoor, think Hound of the Baskervilles, and Sherlock Holmes).

Each tor usually had a buried ammo can with a guest book, ink pad and stamp. The idea was you would search the tor for the box, once you found it you could sign the guest book and put a stamp on the back of your map.

Many of us used to take great pride in the stamps we had accumulated, especially the lesser known or hard to get stamps. It was also fun to have your name in a guest book on days like Christmas day, which many folks would try and do .. and Dartmoor in December is not a fun place to be.

(Unless you like hiking in gale force winds and horizontal rain) :D
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Postby Dr Tran » Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:02 pm

I really need to get/borrow a GPS and try out some geocaching. I checked there are dozens within walking/biking distance. This might become my next hobby.

Good job with your kid Ricky.
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Postby SkullGirl » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:47 pm

What a great thread. I am really inspired by this thread to take up a new hobby.

I tell ya this forum is just filled with so much valuable information. I can surf it all day long.... oh yeah and I have been since I got off work.
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Postby Jamie » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:55 pm

SkullGirl wrote:What a great thread. I am really inspired by this thread to take up a new hobby.

I tell ya this forum is just filled with so much valuable information. I can surf it all day long.... oh yeah and I have been since I got off work.


My son and I have found a number of the geocaches in NYC...if you do find some, look for logs by nfa...

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Postby RadioShooter » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:55 pm

Reminds me of an all night SAR mission to one of the local state parks. A woman had camped with her two children (4yrs and 6yrs) and decided to make the trip up the nearby mountain trail. The trail was rated strenuous for adults and they left the camp at 3:30 pm for a 6 hour walk. The group did not come back to the campsite to meet another adult and this person reported them missing to the chief park ranger. Due to the lateness of the day and the small children present, the chief ranger called the sheriff's office who notified Emergency Management for a rescue callout. To make a long story short, she and the kids made the 5 mile walk up the trail, then got turned around on the wrong trail. They got off the trails and covered up with leaves and spent the night cozy, while SAR teams were calling their names nearby. They were found the next morning by one of our teams that spent the night on the mountain. No one in our group could believe that the 4 year old made the trip up there, but we are believers now as to what kids can do when they want to.

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Postby Vampire » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:59 am

Actually, I'm not sure how far I walked when I was 3. My parents took us on walks through the forest and stuff, but how far that was...
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Postby Czechnology » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:35 pm

Re: wheels

The german military, in both WWI and WWII heavily utilized small infantry "assault" carts. They were not generally taken into combat unless combat was forced upon them while marching, but they were a good way to haul the heavier items an infantry company has to lug around long distances. They were primitive and slow, but did the job when needed. This gives me a precedent to say "yes" to a small, well built cart in a Bug-Out situation.

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Postby herbalpagan » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:31 pm

This was a great post! I have been wondering how I was going to keep my grandson busy when he comes to visit. I am also going to show my husband the site about geocaching...I think he may get hooked!
Thanks again Ricky and NFA for the tips.
I will say one thing *with great aged wisdom*...kids today are lazy and don't get out and do enough things outside, this is wonderful for their health, their minds and their relationship with their parents! Keep it up. :)
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