Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

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woodsghost
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Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by woodsghost » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:30 pm

Reading this will let you know some recent lessons in patrolling, in using red dot sights, in using 7.62x39 for deer hunting, in using ham radios when deer hunting, in using an AK when deer hunting, hunting around suppressors, and how to properly freeze your butt off.

I got to go deer hunting with some friends. I have hunted with them before and it was a good time. But there were some rough spots and some smooth spots.

I realized as we were hunting that "hunting parties" are a great place to practice "patrolling" or "protecting the hunting lease with a small group....for dummies...." We had a lot that went into coordinating people. A number of the hunters are ham licence holders. The others used FRS radios though I wonder about some of them maybe having more of a GMRS flavor to them. I am a HUGE fan of using radios to communicate and coordinate with friends to make sure things are safe. One needs to plan when/where the targets (deer) will appear and plan safe lanes of fire as we place people in a rough circle 1/2 mile (800km) across and with lots of woods and hills/river beds to create safe zones of fire. If one ever needs to protect your bugout location and hunting lease from some sort of crazy band of one-eyed ninja bikers, it sure helps to have had some practice walking the land and communicating with friends about the features of the land as well as considering how to effectively harvest game from said hunting preserve.

In hauling around an AK, I found the standard grip to be somewhat lacking in comfort. I used a 1 point sling, and found that to not be useful in carrying the rifle but slow to employ when I surprised a deer (Day 2). I feel the 1 point sling is fine for carrying a gun but not for fast engagement on surprise targets (2 point slung on neck only is something I've had better luck with). The Russian style grip is small and I find, uncomfortably angled when carrying for long periods with grip on weapon. I recently bought a Magpul grip and I'm finding that to be a better grip for controlling the rifle. Time will tell if it is comfortable carrying the rifle for long periods. But the stuff I learn in classes about holding a rifle at a fixed indexed point on the shoulder goes out the window when climbing over and under limbs and trees and sliding up and down muddy and icy hills and then suddenly needing to engage a surprise(d) deer. Rifle classes have not prepared me for *patrolling* (long slogs in the woods while hot/cold/wet/bored) and quickly engaging. Maneuvering a safety is tough on an AK when hunting. This is something which needs to be practiced. While I can work it quickly, I ended up carrying it a lot this trip with my hand on the mag and my thumb on the safety. Not the fastest way to do things if surprised by a target. Those Krebs safeties would probably fix my issues.

Day 2 was needed because day 1's rough spots happened. Day 2 involved driving deer and a friend shot one for me. It is delicious. :clap:

Day 1: I got out and promptly froze. I had "thermal" layers and a heavy fleece jacket under my thin blaze orange layer. I used a state legal 5 round mag for the AK. It was fitted with a SightMark Wolverine red dot. I used Federal Fusion 7.62x39. I used a TYT UV8000D for communications with ham buddies. Yes, the TYT with 10w output. I"ll comment on that at some point. My feet FROZE!!! I had to do a lot of isometric exercises and squats to stay somewhat warm while waiting for deer to wander by. I did actually see a number of deer wander by, but before legal light, before it was light enough to safely shoot, and some which were just too far away to ethically try and shoot while at full run (about 150 yards away). I realized I should have moved about 50 yards further East to have been in an optimal position that day, though when I stood that place on Day 2 there were NO deer. No fooling them twice.

I decided to shoot with ear protection. I used electronic ear muffs and used a wire and adapter for 2 pin radios to adapt to 3.5mm pins which I then plugged into the radio. You can find the same thing on BaofengTech.com, or whatever the site is. I was able to monitor radios perfectly with no sound blasting out and giving away my position. Those hams I talked to using my TYT complained bitterly about the quality of my audio. The adapter is designed to have a headphone/microphone plug in, and I just used a male 3.5mm to male 3.5mm adapter to connect the radio and the headphones. I thought I'd use the radio's microphone and I don't know what is happening with the programming, but the audio was pretty garbled. Readable, sorta, but very difficult. On Day 2 I used my Baofeng the same way and got the same results. I stopped using my radios with the adapter plugged in. The setup only works well for monitoring other people talking, it does not work well when trying to chat with others. Also, the cords kept getting caught up in the rifle sling. Not much fun. Yes, I can lay the cords over the sling, but then I cannot take the rifle off my body without a total mess happening. So the $16 was not wasted, but it was of limited utility.

I have been finding the limits of my SightMark Wolverine. Basically, it works well when the lighting is optimal (mostly "bright"), and when shots are closer range. Theoretically, I have a 2moa dot. In point of fact, that dot stars out and becomes a 4-8 moa dot quite frequently. This mostly happens in dim lighting, on very overcast days, before/during dawn, during/after dusk, in the rain, and other times most sane shooters are not actually out shooting. The only way I can get this thing to actually produce a 2moa dot is if I can get it down to a super dim dot on a bright day, which is ok for target shooting but not great for hunting. And there is not enough fine adjustment in the dot to allow the sight to work in those conditions. Also, I was constantly farting around with dot brightness as I was standing out there waiting for deer. I was checking "am I too bright? Too dim? Can I see anything?" Later in the day, after 10am, the sight was mostly fine for inside 100 yard shots with the brightness needed for fast sighting.

As it was, when I suddenly saw a deer close enough to shoot things went south. I brought up the rifle and put a round in the deer. Center mass. Those who hunt will know this is not where you shoot a deer to kill it quickly. Or keep any meet. But I have been trained by YEARS of paper target shooting. And after analyzing all the wound tracks which eventually were created, and thinking back over the last 6 years of shooting deer, I consistently fail to lead moving targets and I consistently hit back of where I should be hitting. I really need to learn to shoot moving targets and I need to learn to lead a bit. I bring my gun up, aim, freeze/lock in, and fire. That locking in is what is allowing the deer to move before my shots goes off and I keep getting kidney/gut shots. Well, not always, about half my deer have good shots, but I'm beginning to think those were accidents. Anyway, this shot was at about 40 yards on a fast moving deer. Every shot I have ever taken has been on a moving deer. Usually trotting.

Anyway, the deer jumps high in the air, spins around and around, then charges me. Right at me!! I suspect the deer was surprised to be shot and picked a random direction to run. I was rather surprised too and after thinking it through (one can do a LOT of thinking in 2 seconds) I decided to put the dot center of the chest and fire again. By this point the deer was less than 10 yards from me. I then got out of the deer's way as it charged past me, but having a rifle go off in it's face seemed to have stunned it and it ran past me and stopped about 10 feet from me. I decided to end any misery quickly and put that dot right on it's brain and fired a third shot.

Some of you will have noticed things already, but for those who don't know, there is something on some guns called "height over bore." It means the sight(s) are an inch, or two inches, above the barrel and anything you shoot close range, the round will be 2 inches lower than what you aim at. I've dealt with this in class, and I sucked at it. I thought I had fixed my problem. I have not, and that deer took a round to the face rather than the brain. That was a pissed and sad deer. I was sad. I'm still sad. I stopped shooting at that point because I pretty much felt like an utter failure, and in some ways, yeah, that fits.

I figured now I had shot it twice in the chest and it would die in a few minuets. I noticed it was pretty mild mannered at this point and let me follow at about 30 yards while it wandered about aimlessly. After 60 minuets of this I figured this deer had suffered enough and I pulled out my .357 and shot it again in what I was thinking was a "quartering away" shot. My new rule of thumb is "if you can see the ass hole, it is not a quartering away shot." I know I hit that deer, and I assume the round got near the lungs, but I can assure you most of what that round did was mess up the guts. Along with my first around, as it happened. Then I followed it some more and it laid down. I stood near by and waited about 30-45 minuets until it was slower in getting up. Then I got in there and wrestled it to the ground and cut it's throat. I was sick and tired of this poor animal suffering and the only way I could figure out how to kill it was to finally cut it's throat. I was not happy at this point but things had to be done. As I examined the wounds on the animal I realized my many errors with shooting. The face shot was known immediately (I'd been looking at it for almost 2 hours), but the other 3 shots took some examining. Apparently Shot #2 entered right into the chest and passed over the heart and between the lungs. That is what one might call "too much" accuracy from the red dot when the deer was charging me. The entry wounds were about .3 inches and the exit wounds were about 1.5 inches across, with good penetration. The bullets were better than the Russian soft points I have used in the past. I hate sighting in a gun with bullets costing $1.20 each, but the effects on the deer were good. If I had been a better shooter, I think they would have turned in a steller performance.

I also discovered my red dot was rattling back and forth and had been doing so for some time. I realized later that it must have got loosened when driving to the hunting area due to some bumpy roads. One of the mags I had with the rifle in the trunk was all dinged and scratched up (use a padded case, not a duffel bag to transport guns). The sight mount I used is a Barska sight mount. It is Russian(?), and a 2 piece design. The picitinny rail is screwed on to the mount itself. Well, those screws came loose. I have since locktited them down when I reinstalled the sight, but upon discovering the loose sight I removed it and ran with irons the rest of the day and the next hunting day. If you are going to run a red dot, I STRONGLY recommend a means of quickly removing it or co-witnessing with irons. At this point, I just feel irons are the only thing I can trust. They work in every weather condition, they work at every range, in every lighting condition (if you can't see the sights, it is probably too dark to hunt), they are simply the only thing I can really trust. Although, shooting a moving target is easier with the red dot.

Some careful readers might have noticed that I blame myself for poor shots when I also noticed my sight was so loose it was rattling around and I think it loosened before the hunt began. Well, yes, but I don't *remember* the sight moving or rattling while moving to the hunting spot or waiting for deer. I could have just not noticed in all the excitement. Or the shivering. Or the sight was simply loosened but only lost zero after shot #1 or somewhere between shots 1 and 3. I don't know. I don't have a clue. There was a lot going on once I started shooting. The rattle could have been subtle enough I did not notice it earlier and just got bad after I started shooting. I"ll never know.

The deer was used to feed some of the local wildlife. When I got in to field dress the deer, there was an obscene amount of poop coming out of the cavity. All the experienced hunters with me told me immediately I should NOT keep the deer. It was a mess and I just need to do better next time. I"m not totally sure if all rounds missed the lungs, or if maybe the .357 hit a lung and collapsed it, but the other lung kept the deer going? I don't know how any critter can go on living for close to 2 hours with 1 lung. And trot around for most of that time.

Well, my wife just told me to wrap this up now, so a quick note on hunting around suppressors: you CAN still hear those things go off. Especially if you are wearing ear pro which enhances sound. Super sonic rounds make things less damaging on your ears, but folks can still hear you just fine, and it is especially so with hearing enhancements.

So, lessons:

Use radios to coordinate.

Consider the limits of radio doodads. They can be useful, but can also be detrimental.

Be aware of your equipment and don't assume the Russians staked or locktited any screws.

Have irons as a backup. Be able to quickly remove any red dots. Train with those irons.

Train and practice for your needs. In particular, train on moving targets.

Dress for the weather.

Train in the weather you expect to use your equipment in.

Hunting is one of the best training grounds I have ever found. I can do ok punching holes in paper on a bright sunny day at 5-25 yards, but it is in hunting that I have found the greatest holes in my craft and faced my greatest failures as a shooter. Knights trained for battle through hunting, and I feel those who consider themselves defenders of the home must get out and test their craft in a highly dynamic environment. Actually, a very boring environment which suddenly gets exciting for very brief moments.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by Stercutus » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:33 pm

You better hope that deer did not have friends.

In seriousness though,
Be aware of your equipment and don't assume the Russians staked or locktited any screws.

Have irons as a backup. Be able to quickly remove any red dots. Train with those irons.
Barska and Sight Mark are low end gear. Often the cheapest that can be found with any kind of recognizable name. You can get them to work but you need to manage your expectations when dealing with low quality stuff. If you want a higher level of confidence in your gear you need to buy better gear. It doesn't need to be a lot more either. Sig and Bushnell scopes are about twice as much but are about ten times better built. Sure, having BUIS is always a good idea but equipment failures are more common with the cheap stuff.
The Russian style grip is small and I find, uncomfortably angled when carrying for long periods with grip on weapon.
You are not the only one who after using the AK in the field has discovered this.
I used a 1 point sling, and found that to not be useful
I find single points are useful for getting in and out of vehicles and when wearing large, bulky, heavy body armor. The sling avoids getting tangled and caught up in stuff. The rest of the time not so much.

I hunt a little differently than you do. While I do stalk hunt I don't wander through the woods looking for them. I find out where the deer are going to be and then go there and shoot them. Adapting of course for changes in patterns of life in humans when hunting season opens. I try to avoid shooting running deer. If you start a deer and it runs it will dump adrenaline in to the muscle tissue in an attempt to escape. This gives it a flavor I find less palatable.

Where to shoot the deer?

Image

I am sure you are aware for clean kill shots there are only three target areas. The chart however is a little deceptive. The largest and easiest area to hit is actually the neck/ brain spinal column. Think of it as all one continuous target area. It also spoils the least amount of meat, is much more likely to result in a DRT with zero running away, makes dressing and cleaning a snap... every advantage and no disadvantage. It does require accuracy which if I am hunting with a RDS, I always use a magnifier to achieve.

Chest hits on OTOH have multiple issues, some of which you encountered. Hitting it in the pump house (heart) is hardly guaranteed even when the bullet enters the body right over the heart. Bullets do funny things after hitting ribs, especially if the animal is moving. I have seen deer live and run for quite a while and ways with a bullet in the aorta cavity but never once have I ever seen one run away with a severed spinal cord. Lung shots, unless they go through and hit both lungs (and even then) almost never result in a DRT. The animal does not need to breathe to run and walk around and yes with one working lung it can last as long as you let it. Using a larger round such as 308 or .30-06 can help to ensure proper and direct penetration which are more reasons why they are so popular.

After shooting the animal and (hopefully) dropping it from the spine/ brain hit if is still alive (rare but happens) then I go ahead and kill it right away. It's going to die anyway. And, if I still have my rifle, this is the obvious best choice to dispatch the animal with rather than with a comparatively weak and difficult to aim handgun. In fact, I don't even carry a handgun anymore when hunting deer. It is kind of a paperweight and doesn't bring much added value. I may have 20-40 rounds for the rifle and that should cover just about any situation I can envision (such as encountering a pack of hogs or Chai Vang) when deer hunting or just about anything else.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by flybynight » Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:41 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:33 pm
You better hope that deer did not have friends.

In seriousness though,
Be aware of your equipment and don't assume the Russians staked or locktited any screws.

Have irons as a backup. Be able to quickly remove any red dots. Train with those irons.
Barska and Sight Mark are low end gear. Often the cheapest that can be found with any kind of recognizable name. You can get them to work but you need to manage your expectations when dealing with low quality stuff. If you want a higher level of confidence in your gear you need to buy better gear. It doesn't need to be a lot more either. Sig and Bushnell scopes are about twice as much but are about ten times better built. Sure, having BUIS is always a good idea but equipment failures are more common with the cheap stuff.
The Russian style grip is small and I find, uncomfortably angled when carrying for long periods with grip on weapon.
You are not the only one who after using the AK in the field has discovered this.
I used a 1 point sling, and found that to not be useful
I find single points are useful for getting in and out of vehicles and when wearing large, bulky, heavy body armor. The sling avoids getting tangled and caught up in stuff. The rest of the time not so much.

I hunt a little differently than you do. While I do stalk hunt I don't wander through the woods looking for them. I find out where the deer are going to be and then go there and shoot them. Adapting of course for changes in patterns of life in humans when hunting season opens. I try to avoid shooting running deer. If you start a deer and it runs it will dump adrenaline in to the muscle tissue in an attempt to escape. This gives it a flavor I find less palatable.

Where to shoot the deer?

Image

I am sure you are aware for clean kill shots there are only three target areas. The chart however is a little deceptive. The largest and easiest area to hit is actually the neck/ brain spinal column. Think of it as all one continuous target area. It also spoils the least amount of meat, is much more likely to result in a DRT with zero running away, makes dressing and cleaning a snap... every advantage and no disadvantage. It does require accuracy which if I am hunting with a RDS, I always use a magnifier to achieve.

Chest hits on OTOH have multiple issues, some of which you encountered. Hitting it in the pump house (heart) is hardly guaranteed even when the bullet enters the body right over the heart. Bullets do funny things after hitting ribs, especially if the animal is moving. I have seen deer live and run for quite a while and ways with a bullet in the aorta cavity but never once have I ever seen one run away with a severed spinal cord. Lung shots, unless they go through and hit both lungs (and even then) almost never result in a DRT. The animal does not need to breathe to run and walk around and yes with one working lung it can last as long as you let it. Using a larger round such as 308 or .30-06 can help to ensure proper and direct penetration which are more reasons why they are so popular.

After shooting the animal and (hopefully) dropping it from the spine/ brain hit if is still alive (rare but happens) then I go ahead and kill it right away. It's going to die anyway. And, if I still have my rifle, this is the obvious best choice to dispatch the animal with rather than with a comparatively weak and difficult to aim handgun. In fact, I don't even carry a handgun anymore when hunting deer. It is kind of a paperweight and doesn't bring much added value. I may have 20-40 rounds for the rifle and that should cover just about any situation I can envision (such as encountering a pack of hogs or Chai Vang) when deer hunting or just about anything else.
Interesting. How many deer have you put down with neck shots? It does make sense from decapitating shot view, but how much harder is it since the neck/head could be moving in four directions?
Not all those who wander are lost

John Titor was right <--- :ohdear: Way past the point of going gray man. See you on the other side ( or not :wink: )

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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by boskone » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:09 pm

flybynight wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:41 pm
Interesting. How many deer have you put down with neck shots? It does make sense from decapitating shot view, but how much harder is it since the neck/head could be moving in four directions?
FWIW, I mostly shoot deer in the neck, but will shoot head (I care basically not at all about racks), and lastly in the chest.

Shooting in the neck is my favorite because when head-on or oblique, you're shooting through all sorts of important stuff: spine, carotid artery, esophogus, with the head on one end and lungs/heart on the other. Nice large area, with a lot of potentially quickly lethal things to go through.

Head is kind of a waiting game. Anticipate where the head will be for a time (e.g. down in low grass, up and forward if looking around), then put your reticle about where the head will be and wait. When they get their head into position to eat or look around, you'll have the better part of a second to center up and fire.

If I shoot rear-oblique, I shoot for the lungs and such, basically from behind the "on-side" shoulder to the base of the neck. Head shots are too chancy, IMO.

I won't shoot from directly behind at all usually. I did shoot one in the noggin from behind, but I was on a ~20ft hill shooting down. One of my cousins literally shot one in the butt hole, and it was awful. Quick kill but stinky half-digested grass all over the cavity from ruptured digestive organs, ruptured bladder...just no.

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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by woodsghost » Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:30 pm

A friend dropped a deer this season with a 300BO to the neck. His first neck shot and first DRT in 30+ years of hunting. I kinda suspect he will try again. Thanks for the heads up on target location.

I'll be running with irons for a while. I'll save up for a better mount and sight. And I'm tempted to go with a 1-4x or 1-6x scope. It seems to be the smarter route for a hunting rig. Or get a magnifer for the red dot. That definitely seems needed for hunting. But I've used irons for all but this last deer, and they have always worked. I just have to wait for deer to be inside 100 yards.

I never minded the small grip on the AK before, but I always used a 2 point sling too. I feel the position of the gun and carrying changed with the 1 point. I don't know.

Anyone with hunting stories they want to share, I'm all ears.

Also, FYI, the party I hunt with always field dresses thr deer and then processes them the next day. It is always a 2 day operation and I didn't expect to get a "Day 2" of hunting, but got the opportunity with a friend. Which is where things got kinda interesting, processing wise.

We quartered out the deer in the field. I suggest a pully for this, though there are vids showing how to do it without a pully. I didn't have much good happen with the deer on the ground, but hoisting it up in a tree sure made things easier. I used my BCUSA tarp to wrap the meat and have decided the BCUSA tarps are THE BEST for anything one can imagine. I have beat mine to death and it is still ok. I probably should have used a blue tarp, but didn't.

I think an ALICE frame with shelf would have been just the ticket for hauling the quartered deer parts out of the woods. As it was, I just scooped them in my arms (in the tarp) and that was an interesting walk.

New experiences....
Last edited by woodsghost on Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by flybynight » Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:31 pm

So I'm wondering if this would also be good for archery. On the one hand the arrow won't have the kinetic energy of a bullet for breaking the spine , but on the other side with good broadheads , severing the artery would cause more rapid blood loss and and cause loss of consciousness from no blood to the brain.
Not all those who wander are lost

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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by Stercutus » Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:39 pm

I shoot about 80% of the animals in the neck.

For getting animals out of the woods or tight spots I use either a cart or a wheelbarrow with a very wide tire. Ideally I don't shoot them in tight spots but have had some interesting nights recovering them. Best bet is to shoot them in an open area and then pull a trailer around, load up and take them off to process.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by yossarian » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:32 pm

Best place to shoot a deer.......close to the truck. I've never taken a neck shot, but I've seen one taken. Didn't twitch, didn't jerk, didn't move. She just fell over like she'd been tipped.
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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by RonnyRonin » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:39 pm

forgetting loctite on optic mounts has been my nemesis for years. Nothing like spending a few bucks in ammo to have your $700 optic shake loose, have to drive home and spend a few bucks on more ammo sighting in later. Now that I have a 2 hour round trip to the nearest public range the problem is even more upsetting.

I only carried an AK one year hunting and am trying to recall how I carried it. I seem to remember a lot of time spent carrying it by the mag area/receiver, or with it partially supported by my front pack. I also think I spent a good amount of time with the gun muzzle up, bottoming out the single point, so the gun was mostly balanced against my shoulder. not great for quick shots, but where we were hunting it seemed less important.
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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by lailr » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:55 am

Scouting hunting land has ben the basis of wartime movement of scouts since the beginning of time, great thread.


I will say this.....Pushing the deer after shooting it leads to it being flooded with Adrenaline, and staying on it's feet longer. If you'll let it run, it'll usually go a spell, lay down, and bleed out, even gutshot ones

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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:45 pm

Woodghost: If you want to learn more about patrolling, is the State Guard an option for you?

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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by woodsghost » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:55 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:45 pm
Woodghost: If you want to learn more about patrolling, is the State Guard an option for you?
Ahhhhh no. My wife is the child of two retired Navy folks. When I married her, she said I was not joining any branch, as she had done her time.

My chance was before I married her, and I was not wired right at the time. Joining the Guard would be a lot of fun, good financially, and a very useful career move. She still says no. I keep asking every 2 years.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:04 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:55 pm
MPMalloy wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:45 pm
Woodghost: If you want to learn more about patrolling, is the State Guard an option for you?
Ahhhhh no. My wife is the child of two retired Navy folks. When I married her, she said I was not joining any branch, as she had done her time.

My chance was before I married her, and I was not wired right at the time. Joining the Guard would be a lot of fun, good financially, and a very useful career move. She still says no. I keep asking every 2 years.
Would it make a difference that this would be the State, not National Guard. State Guard are not federalized & not deployed outside of the state? The State Guard works solely for the Governor & not the President.

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flybynight
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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by flybynight » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:11 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:55 pm
MPMalloy wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:45 pm
Woodghost: If you want to learn more about patrolling, is the State Guard an option for you?
Ahhhhh no. My wife is the child of two retired Navy folks. When I married her, she said I was not joining any branch, as she had done her time.

My chance was before I married her, and I was not wired right at the time. Joining the Guard would be a lot of fun, good financially, and a very useful career move. She still says no. I keep asking every 2 years.
Every two years? Sounds like marriage enlistment :awesome:
Not all those who wander are lost

John Titor was right <--- :ohdear: Way past the point of going gray man. See you on the other side ( or not :wink: )

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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by woodsghost » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:24 pm

flybynight wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:11 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:55 pm
MPMalloy wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:45 pm
Woodghost: If you want to learn more about patrolling, is the State Guard an option for you?
Ahhhhh no. My wife is the child of two retired Navy folks. When I married her, she said I was not joining any branch, as she had done her time.

My chance was before I married her, and I was not wired right at the time. Joining the Guard would be a lot of fun, good financially, and a very useful career move. She still says no. I keep asking every 2 years.
Every two years? Sounds like marriage enlistment :awesome:
I imagine I'm getting more perks from marriage than anybody ever got from service in a branch. ;) But there are costs too. I'm learning more about what a "relationship for life" actually means. I don't regret it, I just didn't really know what I was doing or getting into when I said those vows. I don't think I even could have known.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by woodsghost » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:35 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:04 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:55 pm
MPMalloy wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:45 pm
Woodghost: If you want to learn more about patrolling, is the State Guard an option for you?
Ahhhhh no. My wife is the child of two retired Navy folks. When I married her, she said I was not joining any branch, as she had done her time.

My chance was before I married her, and I was not wired right at the time. Joining the Guard would be a lot of fun, good financially, and a very useful career move. She still says no. I keep asking every 2 years.
Would it make a difference that this would be the State, not National Guard. State Guard are not federalized & not deployed outside of the state? The State Guard works solely for the Governor & not the President.
1) I had no clue they existed! But Nebraska doesn't seem to have anything? Nothing active, anyway.

2) and she she is threatening to ground me from my internet friends. She said I don't need to be getting ideas.... Oh well, there are some auxiliary units which could use my skills and help in disasters and such. No patrolling, but I have looked briefly at those.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:04 am

woodsghost wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:35 pm
MPMalloy wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:04 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:55 pm
MPMalloy wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:45 pm
Woodghost: If you want to learn more about patrolling, is the State Guard an option for you?
Ahhhhh no. My wife is the child of two retired Navy folks. When I married her, she said I was not joining any branch, as she had done her time.

My chance was before I married her, and I was not wired right at the time. Joining the Guard would be a lot of fun, good financially, and a very useful career move. She still says no. I keep asking every 2 years.
Would it make a difference that this would be the State, not National Guard. State Guard are not federalized & not deployed outside of the state? The State Guard works solely for the Governor & not the President.
1) I had no clue they existed! But Nebraska doesn't seem to have anything? Nothing active, anyway.

2) and she she is threatening to ground me from my internet friends. She said I don't need to be getting ideas.... Oh well, there are some auxiliary units which could use my skills and help in disasters and such. No patrolling, but I have looked briefly at those.
There's always the spontaneously-constituted something-or-other. :mrgreen:

Also: Your neck-of-the-woods ( :rofl: ) doesn't recognize my permit Individual Constitutional 2A Right to peaceably be.

I wuz reading USCCA. :mrgreen:

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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by woodsghost » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:46 am

MPMalloy wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:04 am
woodsghost wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:35 pm
MPMalloy wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:04 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:55 pm
Ahhhhh no. My wife is the child of two retired Navy folks. When I married her, she said I was not joining any branch, as she had done her time.

My chance was before I married her, and I was not wired right at the time. Joining the Guard would be a lot of fun, good financially, and a very useful career move. She still says no. I keep asking every 2 years.
Would it make a difference that this would be the State, not National Guard. State Guard are not federalized & not deployed outside of the state? The State Guard works solely for the Governor & not the President.
1) I had no clue they existed! But Nebraska doesn't seem to have anything? Nothing active, anyway.

2) and she she is threatening to ground me from my internet friends. She said I don't need to be getting ideas.... Oh well, there are some auxiliary units which could use my skills and help in disasters and such. No patrolling, but I have looked briefly at those.
There's always the spontaneously-constituted something-or-other. :mrgreen:

Also: Your neck-of-the-woods ( :rofl: ) doesn't recognize my permit Individual Constitutional 2A Right to peaceably be.

I wuz reading USCCA. :mrgreen:
What? Nebraska recognizes non-professional permits from Iowa. I confess I don't know what a Professional Permit is. I assumed it meant a security contractor's permit. If that is what you have, I wonder if I need to look into such a thing. I wonder what Nebraska's version of that permit is?
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:02 am

woodsghost wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:46 am
MPMalloy wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:04 am
woodsghost wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:35 pm
MPMalloy wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:04 pm
Would it make a difference that this would be the State, not National Guard. State Guard are not federalized & not deployed outside of the state? The State Guard works solely for the Governor & not the President.
1) I had no clue they existed! But Nebraska doesn't seem to have anything? Nothing active, anyway.

2) and she she is threatening to ground me from my internet friends. She said I don't need to be getting ideas.... Oh well, there are some auxiliary units which could use my skills and help in disasters and such. No patrolling, but I have looked briefly at those.
There's always the spontaneously-constituted something-or-other. :mrgreen:

Also: Your neck-of-the-woods ( :rofl: ) doesn't recognize my permit Individual Constitutional 2A Right to peaceably be.

I wuz reading USCCA. :mrgreen:
What? Nebraska recognizes non-professional permits from Iowa. I confess I don't know what a Professional Permit is. I assumed it meant a security contractor's permit. If that is what you have, I wonder if I need to look into such a thing. I wonder what Nebraska's version of that permit is?
That's what a professional permit is: employment. I must have mis-read something.

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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by PistolPete » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:40 pm

A little late to this thread but I thought I would share some of my thoughts and experiences. First, it sounds like it was a pretty traumatic experience for you overall, and one that didn't result in a successful harvest. Hopefully your next hunt will be more successful using what you learned this year!

As far as neck and head shots, personally I've only ever taken one of each. The neck shot was at a running doe that another hunter shot in the rump. The deer was injured, but would have maybe taken days to die from infection and I wanted to put it down for him without damaging any meat, so I took a neck shot. The deer dropped mid stride. The head shot I took on a buck who was on the edge of my shooting distance (75 yards or so) in the woods. I kept seeing bits of him, but there were too many trees to guarantee a good shot. He finally presented a head and I took it. He of course dropped immediately.

Which leads me to hunting ethics. Each person must choose their own hunting ethics. I have chosen that I will not take a shot unless I can be certain it's a killing shot. This leads to passing on lots of deer that I could probably take, but can't guarantee it. That isn't a judgment on anyone, nor an attempt to say that's the only way to hunt, just how I do it. With a properly placed shot I've never had a deer go more than 40 yards before dropping for good. And I've never had to take more than one shot in the last 20 years. Except this year, just to keep me humble. My first shot was a killing shot, but the deer dropped immediately and got back up and I put another in it just to be sure. Turns out I didn't need to. So it goes.

My method is to wait 5 minutes after the shot to approach the deer. This gives the deer time to drop and bleed out. Often times if you go towards the deer right away it'll jump back up and run on adrenaline. That means a longer chase, more suffering and it can also give the meat an odd taste. Best to let it die peacefully. My personal method is to eat an apple after the shot. It forces me to take the time before moving after the deer, and a bit of a snack before the hard work of field dressing and pulling the deer out of the woods back to camp can't hurt.

You learned a lot about your equipment! I used to use a red dot for deer, but my area now has antler restrictions which means you can't take a buck unless it is an 8 pointer. At a distance it can be hard to tell a 6 point from an 8 point and because of that I switched to a traditional magnified scope. A modern 1 - 4 or 2 - 7 or something along those lines are great choices in the woods for me. Two point sling is the way to go, and practicing using the sling to tighten up your stance goes a long way. (often referred to as a "hasty sling")

Is 7.62 x 39 enough for deer? I'd say yes. For my area for the size of deer I consider that the lower level for an ethical kill. If you handload- look into CFE Black powder. I am getting 100 fps more using that powder (which was designed for 300 BLK) than I get out of factory ammo. Every little bit helps!

Thanks for sharing your story! It sounds like you had quite the experience. We often learn more from failures than successes. It sounds like solid patrolling practice as well. Good luck on your future hunts!
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Re: Hunting & Patrolling - (Graphic)

Post by woodsghost » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:35 pm

PistolPete wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:40 pm
A little late to this thread but I thought I would share some of my thoughts and experiences. First, it sounds like it was a pretty traumatic experience for you overall, and one that didn't result in a successful harvest. Hopefully your next hunt will be more successful using what you learned this year!

...Good luck on your future hunts!
You are not at all late and I appreciate your contribution! I have appreciated all the responses.

For the reasons listed above and some reasons I didn't list because there was no lesson value to them, this was the toughest hunt I have had. And I plan not to repeat many of these mistakes and keep documenting so I can remember and others can learn.

Thanks for the powder recommendation! I have the gear to load 7.62x39, but not the powder or bullets. Not yet. I've been waiting till after I get a 7.62x39 bolt action. Or that was my plan. I don't know, it might change.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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