A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

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Ryder358
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A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by Ryder358 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:36 pm

Just had a car drive down our street shooting a gun at a guy running away.

I didnt hear the shots but my daughter was inthe front of the house and asked Mom if that was fire works. Being light out my wife looked out to see this car chasing down a guy running away and firing at him.

We and the neighbors are fine. Cops were called quickly by several people and arrived in a few minutes.

I don't know what happened to the runner or the group (2-3) in the car. I gathered from witnesses that they turned around at the corner and crashed the car into a dumpster at the church parking lot then bailed. The cops may have caught one person involved. Don't know if car belongs to the driver or was stolen. Witness saw one person shoot a "normal" handgun around 8 times and another saw a different person with what looked like an Uzi with a long mag but that was never fired so no telling if it was auto or semi.

I did get to talk to a few neighbors we don't normally talk to and find out a few of them also choose to conceal carry so that's a silver lining I guess.

Is it weird when the wife says "Honey grab your gun" and I stop to think "The Saiga and Bullpup look too 'tatical' with police on the way, better grab the pump shotgun" to keep next to me at the door, on addition to the concealed pistol?
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by Ryder358 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:41 pm

Forgot to add that I did do a walk through of my property looking under cars, in the garage and other possible hiding spots with my concealed carry pistol on my side and wife watching from the house. Makes me realize I have no idea how to properly clear an area or room.
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by TacAir » Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:43 pm

A couple of observations

1) Unless you really know your neighbors, telling folks you have firearms may not be a good choice. Dunno, YMMV.

2) I wouldn't be carrying a visible weapon when you know cops are headed your way - responding to a shots fired call. Could go badly for you....

3) Is this common? Might be worth talking the kinder and tell them to either lie down or get inside and (into the tub?) IOW, a plan to deal with the situation, should it happen again.

I get something like this in my AO about once a week or so... A couple of blocks away, but you can still hear the shooting. And yes, as soon as the wife retires, we are moving yet again.
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by Ryder358 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:12 pm

1) They mentioned that they were carrying or went and grabbed their conceal carry gun

2) I did not have a visible firearm outside of my house at any point for exactly those reasons. I did set the shotgun next to the front door while I was assessing the situation and then felt I'd be better off with it away and concealed pistol only.

3) Very uncommon on this side of town. She's 6 so I'm not sure what the appropriate level of engagement for "Honey sometimes a bad guyb you don't know might shoot bullets into our house" is. There's a balance between knowledge and causing excessive fear and anxiety that needs to be observed carefully.
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by TheZone » Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:25 am

Carrying a weapon at all was unwise. That's the sort of thing that will bounce you straight into Person of Interest status at the least.

You have a drive-by, and Mr. Ryder happens to be poking around the scene with a weapon? Maybe he was the shooter, maybe they were shooting at him. Maybe he's a Walter White. Best do some digging.

Bad idea. Let the police do their job. Speaking from experience, the officers responding are going to be hyper-alert when they roll up. Spotting a suspicious male with a concealed handgun is going to lead to a series of orders issued over the barrel of a sidearm, and mistakes have been known to happen.

Best to just avoid the entire business.
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by EODTech256 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:58 pm

My two cents here. I think the OP did things just fine.

He didn't say he went to the scene and was poking around he said that witnesses told him what had happened out of his view.

He also said that the shotgun stayed by the front door. Getting something bigger then a pistol is a good idea with the potential for things to go to foot like they did here.

As for it being smarter to not carry at all; one concealed means concealed cops don't have X-ray vision, and two going unarmed with suspects potentially still on the loose and in the area is very unwise.

As for not knowing how to clear rooms and areas. Get some training and have your wife attend it too. Clearing alone is bad news.

I agree with TacAir on talking to the kid. The hard part will be approaching it the right way.
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by TheZone » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:36 pm

EODTech256 wrote: As for it being smarter to not carry at all; one concealed means concealed cops don't have X-ray vision, and two going unarmed with suspects potentially still on the loose and in the area is very unwise.
Not if just stays in the house and let the police handle it.

Over the years I've seen this sort of thing end badly all too often.

Stay put and let the police do their job. That's what we're paid for.
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by EODTech256 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:02 pm

From how I read the OP he stayed at or near his home.

While the cops are amped up when responding they are not dumb. They can see the difference between a group of neighbors standing there talking about what just happened and the guys that just bailed out of a car after shooting at a guy. Most of the time that's because they will have un-a**ed the area or hid in a hurry since they were just committing a felony.

Again as long as the op wasn't running from dark spot to dark spot or openly displaying his firearm he would be fine to carry.

As for stay put and let the cops do their job I don't think I or the op said anything to lead one to think we were advocating anything more then having a lawful means of protection while talking with neighbors after the incident was over.
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by TheZone » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:11 pm

EODTech256 wrote:From how I read the OP he stayed at or near his home.

While the cops are amped up when responding they are not dumb. They can see the difference between a group of neighbors standing there talking about what just happened and the guys that just bailed out of a car after shooting at a guy. Most of the time that's because they will have un-a**ed the area or hid in a hurry since they were just committing a felony.
Speaking as a police officer and supervisor of 25+ years and counting, I disagree. As I have said, I've seen far too many of these exact situations go badly. Leave the scene for the officers. Stay put until its all over and dealt with, then go and admire the bullet holes.
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by woodsghost » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:36 pm

The op was very clear. He looked around his property for BGs hiding. He was not at or near the crime scene. The bullet holes and shooting were at the other end of the block and by the church dumpster (more than a block away).

Maybe it is wise to avoid leaving your house for any reason if you are within several blocks of a shooting?
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by Zimmy » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:10 pm

The OP and Tac need to move.

No way would I live around that foolishness. I'm glad your family is OK, Ryder.
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by TheZone » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:28 pm

woodsghost wrote: Maybe it is wise to avoid leaving your house for any reason if you are within several blocks of a shooting?
Until the situation is sorted out, yes. That was my point.

Because just because a homeowner assumes the shooting is over does not mean the shooting is over.

There's the switchback, the bluffer, and the waylay, to use our local street terms.

Stay in, stay away, and wait. When the police depart, give it thirty minutes, because odds are we (the police) are also counting down.

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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by EODTech256 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:43 pm

@TheZone Again not saying to go down to an active crime scene. That would be bad armed or other wise. I am saying that a private citizen that is lawfully armed can go about his property to check it out. People, contrary to what happened in recent situations do not have to cower in fear while the police do there business a block or more away.

Woodsghost it maybe wise avoid leaving and but for how long? The one thing the op didn't give us is a time frame. We are all assuming that this happened right away. From what it sounds like he did wait a while till things were calm as he states that he felt comfortable putting the shotgun up then went outside looked around and meet with neighbors.

Zimmy I agree. Time to find a new place.
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by Stercutus » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:29 pm

Ryder358 wrote:Forgot to add that I did do a walk through of my property looking under cars, in the garage and other possible hiding spots with my concealed carry pistol on my side and wife watching from the house. Makes me realize I have no idea how to properly clear an area or room.
Yikes. Don't recommend doing that again till you learn how.

Not if just stays in the house and let the police handle it.
Nice if he has that kind of time and police have those resources. Where I live response times can run into the 20 mins plus range and may only be one guy showing up because he has that half of the county. A lot can happen in 20 minutes. The last thing I would recommend would be running around with a gun during a response to a shooting but hiding in the bathtub might not be the best option either.
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by grennels » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:38 pm

Most bathtubs are fiberglass these days. Don't think they would do much to stop a bullet.
Down the basement would be better if you have one.
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by Ryder358 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:45 pm

I want to thank everyone for their comments, advice and concern.

We all stayed in the house until after the police arrived, secured the scene and starting the interview process with the neighborhood about a block away from where the shooter's car crashed and was abandoned. By then all the neighbors were milling around talking in clusters. At NO point was any weapon of mine visible to ANY person outside of my own house and that includes being mindful of windows and doors. I have a legal permit to conceal carry and will choose to do so. I will also respect the officers doing their jobs and not interfere by being even close to the taped off scene.

Training for room clearing for the wife and I is a good idea. Even without the training I did make sure to have her from a safe distance help watch my back but this is no substitute for real training. Even though the car crashed and people fled a block away about 20 mins before I was even out of the house I wanted to confirm that there wasn't anyone using my fenced back yard or driveway for a hiding spot.

We do have a basement and that's a wonderful idea. Thanks Grennels.

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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by TheZone » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:29 pm

EODTech256 wrote:@TheZone Again not saying to go down to an active crime scene. That would be bad armed or other wise. I am saying that a private citizen that is lawfully armed can go about his property to check it out. People, contrary to what happened in recent situations do not have to cower in fear while the police do there business a block or more away.
Nobody suggested cowering in fear. But bullets can travel further than a block, and its not unusual for a false run (switchback, as I've already mentioned) to draw the police to block A while the real business is done at block B.

In short, do as the OP did: wait.

The police exist for a reason And that whole 'private citizen lawfully armed' doesn't fly in criminal or civil court when the question is leveled: "you got a gun and went outside because you wanted to shoot someone, didn't you, Mister Smith?"

I've seen three civil suits lost, one funeral, and one family man do time for the sort of thinking you're espousing, just pulling cases off the top of my head. Five families ruined because some civilian strapped on his legal firearm, went out onto his own property, and found himself in something he was not truly prepared for.

I'm repeating this for the benefit of the others who read this thread. Its the same thing we tell in countless community outreach, service club, and Neighborhood Watch speeches: let the police deal with it.
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by EODTech256 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:05 pm

Remind me where I said to run out in the middle of the shooting or right after to get involved? I didn't. I said that afterwards there is nothing wrong with a person being able to walk his property and look things over since the cops obviously didn't in this case.

I too have seen people get in over their heads in going out looking but that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about whether he should have gone out after it was done with his gun on and looked over his place and had it as he talked with his neighbors. Are you saying that there is no place for self defense and legally armed citizens?

And you as a officer should know that courts have ruled you don't exist to protect citizens only to investigate crimes.
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by Stercutus » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:39 pm

EODTech256 wrote:
And you as a officer should know that courts have ruled you don't exist to protect citizens only to investigate crimes.
Dude, that is one court rulin' I'd like to see!
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by Ryder358 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:18 pm

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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by woodsghost » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:34 pm

Ryder358 wrote:Image

Done. What is step #2?
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by Broken1 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:50 am

Stercutus wrote:
EODTech256 wrote:
And you as a officer should know that courts have ruled you don't exist to protect citizens only to investigate crimes.
Dude, that is one court rulin' I'd like to see!
Warren v. District_of_Columbia
DeShaney v. Winnebago County
Castle Rock v. Gonzales
https://www.google.com/search?q=police+duty+to+protect
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by Stercutus » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:19 am

Broken1 wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
EODTech256 wrote:
And you as a officer should know that courts have ruled you don't exist to protect citizens only to investigate crimes.
Dude, that is one court rulin' I'd like to see!
Warren v. District_of_Columbia
DeShaney v. Winnebago County
Castle Rock v. Gonzales
https://www.google.com/search?q=police+duty+to+protect
Could you point out where it says:

"don't exist to protect citizens only to investigate crimes" I could not find it. Poor education on my part I imagine.
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Re: A drive by in my Neighborhood tonight

Post by TheZone » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:11 am

EODTech256 wrote: Remind me where I said to run out in the middle of the shooting or right after to get involved? I didn't. I said that afterwards there is nothing wrong with a person being able to walk his property and look things over since the cops obviously didn't in this case.

I too have seen people get in over their heads in going out looking but that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about whether he should have gone out after it was done with his gun on and looked over his place and had it as he talked with his neighbors. Are you saying that there is no place for self defense and legally armed citizens?
One word for you:

Zimmerman.

Just because its legal does not mean it will be a positive experience.
EODTech256 wrote:
And you as a officer should know that courts have ruled you don't exist to protect citizens only to investigate crimes.
I think you're misinterpreting something. A lot of people get confused by case law that absolves the police from a responsibility to prevent crimes in an abstract sense, or to ensure that person X is not victimized, but if you run 'duty to act' through any decent legal library you should get that cleared up.
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