My Blizzard Experience This Weekend

[johndoe]

So my wife was set to fly out of Minneapolis yesterday (Saturday) morning. We planned on driving in from SD Thursday to do some shopping and misc stuff on Friday, with her flying out early Saturday. We checked the weather before leaving and were a bit concerned since "some" snow was predicted. Since it was saying only 3-5 inches on Wednesday, we figured it was still feasible.Driving in late Thursday we were heading up 60 towards Windom, MN when I noticed a lot of ice on the road. Since it was dark and icy, and there were a few cars already in the ditch, I decided discretion was the better part of valor and got a hotel in Windom, still a few hours from our destination. We got in the hotel and I checked the weather, and things sure had changed...now it was forecasting over a foot of snow in Minneapolis. Not good. So I got on the phone with the airlines and switched my wife's flight to St. Louis, 9 hours to the south and out of the worst of the weather. It actually would work out ok since I was planning on driving there after dropping my wife off anyways, so not a big deal.

Well, Friday we wake up early and it was snowing pretty good. 71, our preferred route, was shut down by the DOT. 60 was still open, though, and in town it looked like it wasn't going to be too bad, so we backtracked down 60. The benefit to this plan, we thought, was that according to the forecast, we would miss the bulk of the snow. So off we went.

We quickly found out the forecast was dead wrong. Within 5 miles the wind had picked up and visibility dropped to maybe 50 yards. We knew this wasn't safe, so we began looking for a turnaround. Well, easier said than done. Visibility was going fast and the median turnouts had begun accumulating large snow drifts that I worried we couldn't make it through. We were about 15 miles out from Worthington, MN, and decided to just push on and grab a hotel and move her flight back a day. In the meantime, visibility was maybe 10-25 yards, winds were howling and pushing snow all over the road, causing intermittent whiteouts. But we were still able to make progress by creeping along nice and slow.

While approaching a small bridge I suddenly saw a minivan sideways in front of me, and a tanker semi off to my left partially off the road. Thankfully I was going slow enough to stop, even with the reduced sightlines, and creeped to a halt. I had on a pair of light hiking shoes (Merrells) (EDIT: I forgot to add later, these got soaked quickly, so I changed into my Vasque Summit GTX boots I had with me later on), some jogging pants, a t shirt, my 5.11 Aggressor parka, and some gloves, I got out of the car and got eyes on the driver of the van, who indicated he was ok. I tried to go forward a little more and the truck began rocking a bit trying to get unstuck, and I saw other vehicles now that I had gone forward a little bit. By now the wind had REALLY kicked up, and the exposed skin on my face not covered by my hood was stinging something fierce. I looked back and could barely see my Honda Element which was maybe 20 yards away, so I decided to retreat back to the vehicle.

Once back in the vehicle I called 911 and was advised MHP was en route, but it'd be a while and to "stay safe." At this point I wasn't worried--I wasn't stuck, we had plenty of supplies (two vehicle BOBs which included food for a week, plenty of blankets, water, stoves, filters, firearms, knives, virtually EVERYTHING you would need in a wilderness survival scenario. So no big deal. I kept the car running (full tank of gas) and rocked back and forth every now and then to keep the snow from piling up.

After an hour or so, the semi got free...unfortunately, by then snow had really locked in the minivan, and I had drifts hood high in front of me, even despite my rocking. Behind me and the minivan a couple semis had stopped, one seemingly stuck in a drift. I got out with a snowshovel to try and free us, but within seconds the wind was just cutting through me to the point where I had serious concerns about hypothermia. Plus looking at the snow up close, I could tell it was going to be a LONG project...time I just didn't have in this weather. It's then that I retreated back inside, planning on sheltering in place until the wind died down. Note that with me were my wife and my 65 lb 12 year old boxer/lab mix.

[johndoe]

At this point, I'll be honest, I was not overly concerned, and maybe even a bit smug since I knew we had prepared well and could, literally, weather this storm. We had our two VBOBS that included stoves, filters, food, etc (see here for a discussion of one of them, the other is nearly identical, without the axe and rifle: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=72543&p=1585754#p1585754), plus I had stocked up on snacks for a long road trip (several dozen granola bars and misc other snacks), I had a snow shovel, salt, a full tank of gas that would allow us to idle for 2-3 days, thus giving us plenty of heat, and lots of blankets in case the car died. Plus I had a second 12v battery fully charged in the car and an inverter, allowing us power for laptops, phones, etc in case the car died, or which would allow us to replace the battery if it went tits up.

So, my wife and I popped in an audiobook, reclined our seats (Element seats fold into a bed--we didn't make the beds yet, but we had plenty of room to be cozy, fed the dog (we had a 40lb bag of food for him) and settled in for what we figured would be a long day and night, since the latest weather on our phones was saying it wouldn't clear until the next morning.

And then the highway patrol showed up.

[Tperkins]

Hm, interesting. Best part of all is that you had your BOB's all loaded up. I'm so glad I have my truck, 4-wheel drive, and good tires (90% Goodyear Wrangler Kevlar AT's) and my dad finally switched from his crappy 31" Yokohama's to 33" 7-Ply E-Load Goodyear Duratrac's (Toyota Landcruiser). I dont like that my dad now has 33's while I have 31's, haha.

That's pretty near that the Element's seats fold into a bed, and would have been very convienent if you would have had to sleep it out, or if you were stuck on the highway for the good part of a day. However, this situation leads me to ask a question, do you have tow straps for your vehicle, and if you do, do they hook onto your vehicle. I had to tow a passenger car out of a drift once, and to the owner's and my suprise, he did not have tow hooks, and both our tow straps only had loop ends. Luckily, I had a 3/4" shackle I put through the "tow hole" and got him out, but you might want to double check your recovery equipment, if you do have some, and get some if you dont. Kudos to being prepared for the worst though, as the great majority of those are not prepared, and I also feel envy towards you having your spare battery. A spare for me would put me out about $170, as truck batteries are not cheap.

[johndoe]

To try and cut down the length here, long story somewhat shorter, the trooper had a 4wd suburban DOT truck and was going to "rescue" all of us and take us to Worthington. I explained that the snow drift right in front of me was all that was keeping me from going, and said I would follow him in since he'd break up the drift and I'd be fine. He refused, and said my wife, dog and I had to go with him. While he was saying this, the minivan occupants--5 mexican migrant workers, ran from the van and began loading up in the suburban's back seat. Oh hell no, I thought. The trooper was adamant that I had to go with him, despite my protests.

Realizing that I wasn't in a position to argue at this point, I told him we had plenty of supplies and gas and said "If you want to take them in and the truckers back behind me, and come back and get us, we'll be fine until then." My thought was that at least then there'd be more room for us to bring a BOB or two, or at least some luggage. No, that wasn't gonna cut it either. We had to go with him, now. (He wasn't being a dick, he was a nice guy, but I don't think he considered us to be in a position to take care of ourselves). Fine, I asked how much room we had for a bag or two, and he said none. I finally got him to consent to me bringing along a Timbuk2 messenger bag that I could fit in my lap. I quickly dumped its contents and threw in my CPAP machine, a change of clothes for my wife and me, my Gerber LMF II knife from my BOB, a Leatherman Wave, my Springfield XD45 and a spare mag, phone charger, a garmin GPSMAP 62st, a SPOT emergency GPS locator beacon, and some toiletries. In my Aggressor Parka's pockets I had some winter EDC goodies, namely a Victorinox Ranger swiss army knife, a proton LED light, a tiny Frontier straw water filter, a Solo Adventurer laser lighter with built in compass, a Blackhawk MQD auto opening knife, and a KelTec P3AT.

Overall, I was probably a little overboard on the guns and cutting instruments, but I had seconds to throw things in the bag and I really didn't stop to think about what I had on my person.

[johndoe]

Hm, interesting. Best part of all is that you had your BOB's all loaded up. I'm so glad I have my truck, 4-wheel drive, and good tires (90% Goodyear Wrangler Kevlar AT's) and my dad finally switched from his crappy 31" Yokohama's to 33" 7-Ply E-Load Goodyear Duratrac's (Toyota Landcruiser). I dont like that my dad now has 33's while I have 31's, haha.

That's pretty near that the Element's seats fold into a bed, and would have been very convienent if you would have had to sleep it out, or if you were stuck on the highway for the good part of a day. However, this situation leads me to ask a question, do you have tow straps for your vehicle, and if you do, do they hook onto your vehicle. I had to tow a passenger car out of a drift once, and to the owner's and my suprise, he did not have tow hooks, and both our tow straps only had loop ends. Luckily, I had a 3/4" shackle I put through the "tow hole" and got him out, but you might want to double check your recovery equipment, if you do have some, and get some if you dont. Kudos to being prepared for the worst though, as the great majority of those are not prepared, and I also feel envy towards you having your spare battery. A spare for me would put me out about $170, as truck batteries are not cheap.

Yes, I forgot to mention I also have a vehicle emergency kit with jumper cables, a beefy strap, flares, and all that stuff. The only reason I have the spare battery is I was planning on camping in the car on the road trip, and I use it to power my CPAP. It's a nice side benefit to use it for the car also, though I doubt I'd likely ever need it since last month I put a yellow top Optima in the Element just for that purpose. I'm still paranoid about killing the battery, though, so I haven't really tried powering the CPAP off the incar battery all night yet.

[johndoe]

So my wife gets in the front of the suburban with the dog on the floor, and I jump in the back seat with...get this, FIVE of the minivan occupants. The truck was a DOT sign truck so all we had was the one row of backseats and the rest was taken up with equipment. I wish I could draw a picture to show he we fit, but basically, there were three of us sitting on the bench seat, the other two guys each had a buddy on their laps, and the last guy was laying down on a little shelf thing up by our shoulders. It's a damn good thing these were tiny guys, because it was TIGHT.

Well off we go, and visibility is horrible. The cop is all over the road, and my wife is trying to help him by calling out when she gets a glimpse of the left side road stripe. Of course, you know where this is going...within 30 minutes of creeping along at 10mph the cop slides off the road and drives us smack dab into a ditch.

After trying to dig a bit and rocking back and forth, it's clear we're not getting unstuck without help. He gets on the radio and calls in a couple snow plows to come get us. An hour later (which feels like 10 given the cramped conditions) they show up and snatch us out with a tow strap, and we follow the snow plows into Worthington at about 5mph the whole way. Even at this speed, we can't see the plows if they get more than 20 yards in front of us, even with their huge size and flashing lights. This was seriously bad weather.

Eventually the cop dumps us off at a truck stop filled with truckers and other "rescued motorists". Unfortunately, this truck stop's furnaces have stopped working, so not only is it like -7 outside (around -35 with the windchill I think), it's probably in the 40s inside. It is seriously cold.

I buy the last cheap flannel blanket and give it to my wife, then use the spare clothes I packed to make a little bed for the dog on the cold tile floor. The poor pup is shaking cold and totally miserable.

Well, we end up sitting in that truck stop for almost 24 hours, freezing the ENTIRE time. We just sat there shaking and trying to catch a little sleep in the hard plastic chairs the whole night. At one point I walked the aisles brainstorming and found some HEET and was giving serious thought to making a small alcohol stove to get a tiny bit of warmth from it, but I'm sure they would have thrown us out on our butts if we fired that up inside, and there was no going outside in that wind and snow.

So, this morning the trooper came and got us and took us and one of the mexicans in the minivan back to the cars. I dug my car out with my shovel and then and helped the mexican guy with his van since he didn't have a shovel or anything. Of course, the cop didn't have one either. We made it back to the truck stop and sat in the parking lot idling with the heat on for 4 hours this morning, enjoying the heat and waiting for the roads to reopen. They finally did around 3pm, and we bolted, and here we sit in a hotel in Sioux Falls, thawing out.

[johndoe]

So I guess the main reason for this lengthy post was to share my thoughts on our preps, and where we came up short. First, I think between our car kit, our BOBS, and everything else we had, we could have sheltered in place comfortably for at least a week, and we were more than ready to survive in the wild.

The problem was we weren't prepared to be forcibly evac'd, and when we had to leave all our supplies to shelter in an urban "shelter", all that wilderness survival stuff didn't come in very handy. Instead, what would have been nice is a lot of "comfort" items like blankets, hand warmers, scarves, travel pillows, etc. Stuff we don't "need" to survive, but that would make our stay in a shelter environment more tolerable when we can't roll in carrying a big BOB.

So, I've decided to add a small "urban" shelter bag for each of us to the BOBS we carry in the car. I envision something like a small backpack or messenger bag, with stuff we can just grab and go if a similar situation presents itself, rather than trying to assemble something from our BOBs on the fly.

As it stands I envision including:

small wool blanket
inflatable travel pillow
toilet paper
Leatherman Wave
deck of cards
book
basic FAK
spare gloves, scarf, knit hat, socks
small radio w/earphones
spare cell phone charger
toothbrush, toothpaste, small container of Dr Bronner's soap
bandana
frontier water filter
lighter
small FRS radios


I'll probably add a little more as I have time to fully think this through--I'm still digesting this whole thing.

One thing I will include that I bought the moment I pulled into Sioux Falls was a handheld digital trunking scanner. I found one of the frustrating things was not knowing what was going on. When we were riding with the trooper we got to hear the DOT and Highway patrol discussing road conditions and clearing progress, and I figure being able to monitor these conversations in a shelter would be priceless. At the very least we'd quickly become the life of the party, as we saw how EVERYONE was desperate for the smallest bit of rumor or information at the truck stop. This would certainly help a lot.

[Tperkins]

But they were from the goverment, they were there to help?

In all honesty, if it was me, I would have just stayed. They have no right to forcible evacuation unless some State of Emergency has been declared, IIRC. I mean, obviously I would never show physical resistance (withholding exceptions that I do not wish to get into, but relate to a "sheriff" that "rescued" stranded motorists before, while his "deputy" stayed behind and looted the cars). Based on your level of preparedness, if you could have stayed it may have ended up a much better outlook ya' know? One thing, if you have space, that you might want to add to your vehicle would be one of those 110V electric heaters. You could potentially run that in a car if CO2 ingression into the car was experienced when using vehicle heat, or possibly at a shelter, but that might lead to everyone either loving you or hating you, and sadly the latter could be more likley.

I always thought some type of heater for a car would be good; they talk about running you heat while your in your car, and how you should open your window some. I wondered; well, if it's that damn cold out, opening my window might very well negate the heat I'm producing, and possibly make it worse if the winds are very high.

[johndoe]

But they were from the goverment, they were there to help?

In all honesty, if it was me, I would have just stayed. They have no right to forcible evacuation unless some State of Emergency has been declared, IIRC. I mean, obviously I would never show physical resistance (withholding exceptions that I do not wish to get into, but relate to a "sheriff" that "rescued" stranded motorists before, while his "deputy" stayed behind and looted the cars). Based on your level of preparedness, if you could have stayed it may have ended up a much better outlook ya' know? One thing, if you have space, that you might want to add to your vehicle would be one of those 110V electric heaters. You could potentially run that in a car if CO2 ingression into the car was experienced when using vehicle heat, or possibly at a shelter, but that might lead to everyone either loving you or hating you, and sadly the latter could be more likley.

I always thought some type of heater for a car would be good; they talk about running you heat while your in your car, and how you should open your window some. I wondered; well, if it's that damn cold out, opening my window might very well negate the heat I'm producing, and possibly make it worse if the winds are very high.

I definitely need to look into an electric heater. I just wonder how long we'd be able to power it without the car running. Vehicle heat shouldn't be a problem if it's running as long as you keep the tail area clear near the pipe and your exhaust is in good shape, but if the car's dead I'd have had to rely on blankets. If an electric heater could run off the battery for a sufficient time it might make a world of difference cycling on and off to boost the temp a bit. I'll definitely look into it.

And I definitely thought about refusing to leave. The problem is, he could easily have come up with a BS pretext criminal offense I was committing (something stupid like reckless driving, obstructing the road or something) and dragged me away against my will. That's the unfortunate reality of dealing with cops...you might win in the long term when their case doesn't hold up in court, but in the short term, they have the power and, for better or worse, the presumption of correctness. As they say, you might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride.

[dukman]

I would have refused to leave on the grounds of entrapment. He could have written someone up for not having their seat belts on because the vehicle was overloaded at his orders.

[Tater Raider]

The State has the right to close a public road. When they close it, they will remove people from said road.

What they did to you was legal and I think it's great that you are figuring out a plan to deal with this situation if it happens again.

Might I recommend you look up 50,000 Watt AM News Radio Stations in addition to a weather radio? Also remember that 511 gives you road conditions and closings in most states.

[the_alias]

The State has the right to close a public road. When they close it, they will remove people from said road.

What they did to you was legal and I think it's great that you are figuring out a plan to deal with this situation if it happens again.

Wow...Land of the Free...

What a load of bull.
I'd also have refused to move/leave my vehicle.
Maybe look at camouflaging the vehicle from the inside to make it look abandoned next time so the .gov won't come and 'help' you.

[johndoe]

Good call on the AM radio tater. We kept checking 511 but they don't really give any projections, just the current state. The thought with the scanner is that we could hear what's going on from the DOT and cops themselves. But an AM radio definitely needs to be in there. (In hindsight, I had my Droid and internet access--they have "scanner" websites that would have allowed me to hear some of the radio chatter had I thought about it)

As for refusing evac orders, I think it's important to not confuse legal theory with practical reality. In theory, the law may or may not allow you to refuse to evac. I agree it should if it doesn't, and I don't like the idea of the government telling me I need to leave any more than any of you.

But apart from the legal theories, there is practical reality. Cops do stuff they "can't" do all the time, and in real life if a cop wants to screw you over, they can do it. Part of my law practice centered around going after these cops that went off reservation and violated people's civil rights in fact. But in truth, once the damage is done it's done, and arguing with a cop in what they perceive to be a life and death situation is rarely going to end well. When I lived in FL I used to see similar situations where cops would order people out of their homes during hurricane evacs, the citizen would refuse, and the cops would suddenly find some BS reason to arrest them to get them out of there. Obviously the charges were always dropped down the road, but by then you're evac'd.

My theory on dealing with cops in these situations is be polite, recognize they're trying to help (even if they're not), often risking their own lives to do it, try to reason with them and if it doesn't work, generally cooperate. They're usually amped up from adrenaline and that's never good, and I never want to give one the reason to escalate the situation. No, it's not fair. No, it's not right. But it is. You have to remember, the government is like a force of nature...there is no arguing or reasoning with it, and they're rarely going to be swayed by logical or legal discussions of fairness. So I treat them appropriately and try to keep them from making my situation any worse than they already are. Yep, it sucks. But it'd suck worse to have some frustrated cop haul me out in cuffs or crack me upside the head, which happens ALL the time in these sort of situations.

[FanaticalModerate]

OP, you done good!

A common theme in any account like this is contributing poster's distrust and discomfort with authority figures ...comes up all the time in WWYD and this subforum. I respect your practical approach and ability to maintain priorities under stress.

[Tater Raider]

The State has the right to close a public road. When they close it, they will remove people from said road.

What they did to you was legal and I think it's great that you are figuring out a plan to deal with this situation if it happens again.

Wow...Land of the Free...

What a load of bull.
I'd also have refused to move/leave my vehicle.
Maybe look at camouflaging the vehicle from the inside to make it look abandoned next time so the .gov won't come and 'help' you.

Well see here's the thing...

Here in the US driving isn't a right. It's a privilege and as such it can be revoked in half a heartbeat, without forethought, in the interest of public safety or whatever other reason The State deems sufficient. Your operator's licence grants you the ability to legally drive on public roads and the registration on your car grants that car the ability to be legally driven on public roads but the roads themselves, the roads not privately owned, mostly belong to The State.

Now if you are sitting in your car in your driveway they cannot do much of anything (there are a few laws that still apply that private property rights do not trump - rightly or wrongly).

Please note: I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with this. I'm saying that this is how it is, at least in the US, and that people should plan accordingly. It is my personal opinion that johndoe is doing well to plan how to avoid this happening again and that we would do well to do likewise.

[the_alias]

I won't engage further in a derail, I don't want a warning.

My suggestion was the takeaway point I wished to make. If the car had looked already abandoned would the deputy have even bothered to look in beyond a cursory glance?

Well off we go, and visibility is horrible. The cop is all over the road, and my wife is trying to help him by calling out when she gets a glimpse of the left side road stripe. Of course, you know where this is going...within 30 minutes of creeping along at 10mph the cop slides off the road and drives us smack dab into a ditch.

From this quote it sounds like the OP was put in considerably more danger from being removed from his vehicle by the policeman through the individuals reckless driving.

[lukem]

Several vendors sell 12v heaters, which would probably be more efficient in a car than the 110v heaters.

On the topic of opting out of being evacuated, perhaps letting the officer know that you're uncomfortable leaving your rifle(s) unattended in the car would help convince him to let you stay? I'd present it as a "I was transporting it to a gunsmith, and I'd really hate to have them fall into the wrong hands officer" situation.

[raptor]

Great post thanks for sharing your experience. It sounds like you were prepared for the situation and were safe if there was no outside assistance offered.

I think you were right in this case to obey the LEO's instructions. It does not sound like he was not trying to deprive you of your rights only ensure that you were safe.

[Evan the Diplomat]

Excellent preps, excellent use of common sense and judgement in a difficult situation and an excellent post of your lessons learned.

You should explain what a CPAP is to your readers.


How do you make a vehicle look abandoned in a blizzard? You can't. Opening the hood, or doors to make it look like you broke down and left is not good for you or the car. Neither is moving the car off the road or allowing snow to pile up around it.

Worse, the well intentioned LEO might start a search looking for the missing motorists.

John Doe we will all remember your name for such a great post.

[riverjoe47]

IMHO a 12 volt electric heater would be a voracious eater of batteries .
Any type of fuel would give you thousands more btus but higher risk in a closed car unless a camper type direct vent .
Heres a link tho to 12 volt electric blanket only 50 watts ,but it puts the heat where you need it .http://www.roadtrucker.com/12-volt-heat ... eets-1.htm

[johndoe]

Thanks everyone. And good suggestion--a CPAP machine is basically an air pump with a facemask that pushes pressurized air into you to help people with obstructive sleep apnea breathe while sleeping. More than anything, though, it's a giant pain in the ass.

I have a few pics I hastily took I figured I'd post, though I really, really wish I had taken more. For obvious reasons, documenting the experience wasn't high on the priority list though.

First is a view out the front windshield while stopped--total whiteout. When we were driving about every 10 minutes or so it'd get this bad for about 30 seconds, and then it'd clear a little so we could at least see the road, barely. After we got stopped, it got worse and it was like this, or worse, pretty much the rest of the night. As you can see, we can't even see the whole hood of the car.



The next morning after recovering our vehicle. As you can see, things had improved dramatically, and the plows had pretty well cleared the road, though it was 4 more hours before the roads were officially reopened. That's "the" minivan in front of us.




This is at the truck stop, AFTER having driven 10-15 miles from recovering my car. The whole engine bay was packed with snow and ice. I cleaned it out as best I could, but even still, there's a good amount of snow in the cracks and crevices.



EDIT: I just found another photo on my phone I took when stopped and there was a "break" in the wind enough to see. You can see the minivan, and just barely in the distance you may be able to see the vague hint of the semi.:

[raptor]

[quote="johndoe"]

This is at the truck stop, AFTER having driven 10-15 miles from recovering my car. The whole engine bay was packed with snow and ice. I cleaned it out as best I could, but even still, there's a good amount of snow in the cracks and crevices.




A stupid question from a tropical sea level creature. I am surprised to see this much ice and snow under the hood. Was your engine temperature at normal operating range within this time frame?

[johndoe]

This is at the truck stop, AFTER having driven 10-15 miles from recovering my car. The whole engine bay was packed with snow and ice. I cleaned it out as best I could, but even still, there's a good amount of snow in the cracks and crevices.




A stupid question from a tropical sea level creature. I am surprised to see this much ice and snow under the hood. Was your engine temperature at normal operating range within this time frame?

Honestly, I don't know. I've spent most my life in Florida and am just now learning about all this winter stuff. Maybe someone else knows?

Edit: Yes, the engine was at normal temps.

[Tater Raider]

Heavy snow + 50 mph winds = a lot of snow packed into the motor. That's not normal for winter, but it is normal for getting stuck in a blizzard as are doors freezing shut and a whole host of other stuff. Also, if snow hits anything the least bit wet it sticks and snow that sticks will have more snow stick to it in a cascade of "oh crap that's a lot of snow and ice."

If I'm coming across as a know-it-all I'm really not one, I just grew up with this stuff and have dealt with more of it since moving north of the land I grew up in about 100 miles. Like if you want info on chaining laws I'm clueless - Iowa is pretty flat so we don't have chain laws. I figured (back when I was trucking) that if I had to chain up I had no business being on the road and parked the rig.