SHTF and you can only have one gun

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
woodsghost
* * * * *
Posts: 3104
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by woodsghost » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:02 pm

moab wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:03 pm
yossarian wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:06 pm
Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:13 am


Well, to be honest, I hate the 9x19mm and the jam prone AR15/M16 (the U.S. military claims to have fixed the jam issues with every iteration, yet at gen 4 it still is a jam prone rifle/carbine platform, and the M855.SS109 rounds punch a narrow, little, thru and thru .22 caliber hole that requires multiple solid hits to put the enemy down. I'm from the Hampton Roads/Tidewater, VA area, a big military area, and have grown up with family and friends telling me about that shitty M16/M4, and I used to own a Beretta M92FS 9mm and it was jam crazy[and I take care of my guns and use factory mags, but this bitch was jam prone as hell. Plus, the 9x19mm is a "maybe" round (maybe it will do the job, maybe you plug him 6 times in the center mass and he still keeps shooting at you). Give me a .45 ACP and 7.62 any day
If the 9mm Parabellum is good enough to protect the largest retail shopping complex in the US, its good enough for me 8-)
What ever happened to the good ole nightstick? I don't see cops carrying those anymore. Too much liability? Seriously curious. Night sticks remind me of the old mall cop that wasn't allowed to carry gun and could only have a night stick. I think security guards used to be the same too. Seemed to be a huge shift away from them.

I was also looking up collapsible batons the other day. Cause I have a cheap one from way back when. And thought I'd throw it in the door holder in my Jeep. But man all sorts of laws have passed and you can't carry those even in your car locked up anymore. Or maybe that's just Kommiefornia where I live. Don't recall. But I was shocked you basically could not own them.
I believe the issue was that police were actually using those batons as intended. I'd guess the liability got too high, and with tasors/pepper spray available, there were other options?
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by flybynight » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:09 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:02 pm
moab wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:03 pm
yossarian wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:06 pm
Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:13 am


Well, to be honest, I hate the 9x19mm and the jam prone AR15/M16 (the U.S. military claims to have fixed the jam issues with every iteration, yet at gen 4 it still is a jam prone rifle/carbine platform, and the M855.SS109 rounds punch a narrow, little, thru and thru .22 caliber hole that requires multiple solid hits to put the enemy down. I'm from the Hampton Roads/Tidewater, VA area, a big military area, and have grown up with family and friends telling me about that shitty M16/M4, and I used to own a Beretta M92FS 9mm and it was jam crazy[and I take care of my guns and use factory mags, but this bitch was jam prone as hell. Plus, the 9x19mm is a "maybe" round (maybe it will do the job, maybe you plug him 6 times in the center mass and he still keeps shooting at you). Give me a .45 ACP and 7.62 any day
If the 9mm Parabellum is good enough to protect the largest retail shopping complex in the US, its good enough for me 8-)
What ever happened to the good ole nightstick? I don't see cops carrying those anymore. Too much liability? Seriously curious. Night sticks remind me of the old mall cop that wasn't allowed to carry gun and could only have a night stick. I think security guards used to be the same too. Seemed to be a huge shift away from them.

I was also looking up collapsible batons the other day. Cause I have a cheap one from way back when. And thought I'd throw it in the door holder in my Jeep. But man all sorts of laws have passed and you can't carry those even in your car locked up anymore. Or maybe that's just Kommiefornia where I live. Don't recall. But I was shocked you basically could not own them.
I believe the issue was that police were actually using those batons as intended. I'd guess the liability got too high, and with tasors/pepper spray available, there were other options?
http://weaponlaws.wikidot.com/state-baton-laws

I'm Still living in the land of the free . I Keep a Club on my GHB. Got one next to my bed. And there's a large economy sized one right here next to my chair
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13276
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Time Out

Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by Stercutus » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:41 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:02 pm
moab wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:03 pm
yossarian wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:06 pm
Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:13 am


Well, to be honest, I hate the 9x19mm and the jam prone AR15/M16 (the U.S. military claims to have fixed the jam issues with every iteration, yet at gen 4 it still is a jam prone rifle/carbine platform, and the M855.SS109 rounds punch a narrow, little, thru and thru .22 caliber hole that requires multiple solid hits to put the enemy down. I'm from the Hampton Roads/Tidewater, VA area, a big military area, and have grown up with family and friends telling me about that shitty M16/M4, and I used to own a Beretta M92FS 9mm and it was jam crazy[and I take care of my guns and use factory mags, but this bitch was jam prone as hell. Plus, the 9x19mm is a "maybe" round (maybe it will do the job, maybe you plug him 6 times in the center mass and he still keeps shooting at you). Give me a .45 ACP and 7.62 any day
If the 9mm Parabellum is good enough to protect the largest retail shopping complex in the US, its good enough for me 8-)
What ever happened to the good ole nightstick? I don't see cops carrying those anymore. Too much liability? Seriously curious. Night sticks remind me of the old mall cop that wasn't allowed to carry gun and could only have a night stick. I think security guards used to be the same too. Seemed to be a huge shift away from them.

I was also looking up collapsible batons the other day. Cause I have a cheap one from way back when. And thought I'd throw it in the door holder in my Jeep. But man all sorts of laws have passed and you can't carry those even in your car locked up anymore. Or maybe that's just Kommiefornia where I live. Don't recall. But I was shocked you basically could not own them.
I believe the issue was that police were actually using those batons as intended. I'd guess the liability got too high, and with tasors/pepper spray available, there were other options?
Police still carry them around here. Not sticks though. Too big, heavy, bulky etc. A lot of police carry extendable batons with built in state exemptions. These are less noticeable than a night stick.


We have no extendable baton laws in my state. Most states don't have them. Baton laws are dumb IMO. Kind of like automatic knife laws. I have seen plenty of bludgeonings. Not once was an extendable baton ever used.
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

User avatar
woodsghost
* * * * *
Posts: 3104
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by woodsghost » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:13 pm

NT2C wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:47 pm
moab wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:00 pm
Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:13 am
moab wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:57 pm


OK. TO be serious. I like how this guy thinks. Except all the battery operated stuff. Except I'd take the .22 conversion for the pistol. Just a normal one. Cause I can't afford the Ciener. (Ok. So I'm not totally serious.) ;)

My actual PAW gun is a side folding stock (don't do the underfolder. not stable enough.) AKM and a Glock 19. I also have a backup AR15 10.5" pistol in 5.56. So welcome aboard, Cthulhu 669! Good choice.
Well, to be honest, I hate the 9x19mm and the jam prone AR15/M16 (the U.S. military claims to have fixed the jam issues with every iteration, yet at gen 4 it still is a jam prone rifle/carbine platform, and the M855.SS109 rounds punch a narrow, little, thru and thru .22 caliber hole that requires multiple solid hits to put the enemy down. I'm from the Hampton Roads/Tidewater, VA area, a big military area, and have grown up with family and friends telling me about that shitty M16/M4, and I used to own a Beretta M92FS 9mm and it was jam crazy[and I take care of my guns and use factory mags, but this bitch was jam prone as hell. Plus, the 9x19mm is a "maybe" round (maybe it will do the job, maybe you plug him 6 times in the center mass and he still keeps shooting at you). Give me a .45 ACP and 7.62 any day
I hear what your saying. But you also have to keep in mind what kind of ammo will be available in a PAW or SHTF situation. (although I'm not sure we've identified exactly what is meant by "SHTF" for the purposes of this thread. I'm assuming it's a total breakdown.) 7.62 is going to run out long before 5.56 unfortunately. And .45 will run out before 9mm. SO it might not be a bad idea to have a back up AR or something that shoots 5.56. And something that shoots 9mm. Food for thought.
9mm and 5.56 are going to be hoarded more than gold in a PAW though, which will put quite a crimp in the supply chain, even with the vast amounts. I'm thinking that .22 LR will be pretty available, maybe .22 WMR too, and various gauges and types of shotgun ammo, other than 00 or slugs, should also be available. Thus, the ideal single gun would be a tri-barrel shotty with the center barrel being .22 WMR (which I believe will work with .22 LR too) :mrgreen:
First, let's define SHTF:

1) short term event. 14 days or less of chaos uncontrolled by LE/gov. (Flood, tornado)

2) Medium term event: 15 days to 60 days without LE/gov control. (BIG fire, BIG earthquake)

3) Civil Wars.

4) TEOTWAEKI (Book of Eli, The Road, The Walking Dead)

Once we start to define some of that I think we can start to have a better conversation?

Second, I think ammo will be plentiful in all but #4. Based on historical evidence. It is even worth debating how important ammo really is in #1 & #2.

boskone
* * *
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:07 pm
Location: Aggieland-ish

Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by boskone » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:41 pm

NT2C wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:47 pm
Thus, the ideal single gun would be a tri-barrel shotty with the center barrel being .22 WMR (which I believe will work with .22 LR too) :mrgreen:
That's a negative: .22WMR is longer and wider-bodied than .22LR. You may be thinking of the old .22XL, which was a longer .22LR, but AFAIK didn't actually have any actual advantages over .22lr and died out mid-last-century.

I've always been fascinated by .22WMR and .22 Hornet, but they're just in such a weird space between the much more common .22LR and .223.

Apropos of the actual thread and assuming something on the "social and logistical collapse" end of the scale, I think I might get a combo gun like the Chiappa M6, 20ga/.22LR. It's not a great setup, nor in an ideal situation a great gun on it's own merits. However, .22LR's cheap and tiny while still being adequate for small game, and 20ga takes less reloading supplies than 12ga while being adequate for (in a pinch and with slugs) up to medium game.

For a less severe scenario, I'd just carry my EDC CC pistol for personal defense.

User avatar
NT2C
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 7575
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:37 pm
Location: Outside of your jurisdiction officer

Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by NT2C » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:33 am

boskone wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:41 pm
NT2C wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:47 pm
Thus, the ideal single gun would be a tri-barrel shotty with the center barrel being .22 WMR (which I believe will work with .22 LR too) :mrgreen:
That's a negative: .22WMR is longer and wider-bodied than .22LR. You may be thinking of the old .22XL, which was a longer .22LR, but AFAIK didn't actually have any actual advantages over .22lr and died out mid-last-century.

I've always been fascinated by .22WMR and .22 Hornet, but they're just in such a weird space between the much more common .22LR and .223.

Apropos of the actual thread and assuming something on the "social and logistical collapse" end of the scale, I think I might get a combo gun like the Chiappa M6, 20ga/.22LR. It's not a great setup, nor in an ideal situation a great gun on it's own merits. However, .22LR's cheap and tiny while still being adequate for small game, and 20ga takes less reloading supplies than 12ga while being adequate for (in a pinch and with slugs) up to medium game.

For a less severe scenario, I'd just carry my EDC CC pistol for personal defense.
0.016 difference in case diameter. :(

Code: Select all

   	        .22LR   .22WMR
Bullet Diameter	.222	.224
Neck Diameter	.226	.242
Case Length	.613	1.055
Rim Diameter	.278	.294
I wonder if you wrapped a little bit of aluminum foil around it would a .22 LR work in a .22 WMR single shot? I happen to have a .22 WMR bolt action. I may have to test this. In a SHTF situation where you need to hunt some food but the only ammo you have is a box of .22LR it could be important. :mrgreen:
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto

Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

boskone
* * *
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:07 pm
Location: Aggieland-ish

Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by boskone » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:36 am

NT2C wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:33 am
boskone wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:41 pm
NT2C wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:47 pm
Thus, the ideal single gun would be a tri-barrel shotty with the center barrel being .22 WMR (which I believe will work with .22 LR too) :mrgreen:
That's a negative: .22WMR is longer and wider-bodied than .22LR. You may be thinking of the old .22XL, which was a longer .22LR, but AFAIK didn't actually have any actual advantages over .22lr and died out mid-last-century.

I've always been fascinated by .22WMR and .22 Hornet, but they're just in such a weird space between the much more common .22LR and .223.

Apropos of the actual thread and assuming something on the "social and logistical collapse" end of the scale, I think I might get a combo gun like the Chiappa M6, 20ga/.22LR. It's not a great setup, nor in an ideal situation a great gun on it's own merits. However, .22LR's cheap and tiny while still being adequate for small game, and 20ga takes less reloading supplies than 12ga while being adequate for (in a pinch and with slugs) up to medium game.

For a less severe scenario, I'd just carry my EDC CC pistol for personal defense.
0.016 difference in case diameter. :(

Code: Select all

   	        .22LR   .22WMR
Bullet Diameter	.222	.224
Neck Diameter	.226	.242
Case Length	.613	1.055
Rim Diameter	.278	.294
I wonder if you wrapped a little bit of aluminum foil around it would a .22 LR work in a .22 WMR single shot? I happen to have a .22 WMR bolt action. I may have to test this. In a SHTF situation where you need to hunt some food but the only ammo you have is a box of .22LR it could be important. :mrgreen:
Maybe, but I think accuracy and reliability would be problematic. The bullet might have enough space to tumble a bit before it engages in the barrel.

I'd also test, thoroughly, with a string or something from pretty far away. I get nervous where phrases like "Should be fine, but might blow your eye out" are reasonable. 8-)

I'd probably just see if there's a .22lr barrel for your rifle. I know the CZ 455 is just a barrel-swap between .17HMR, .22LR, and .22WMR.

Post Reply

Return to “What Would You Do?”