SHTF and you can only have one gun

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Cthulhu 669
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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by Cthulhu 669 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:53 pm

Man, that's a thinker. I guess an high quality AKM with a folding stock, LED tac light and laser sight combo if the scenario is full on WROL, a Glock 21 with laser and light combo on the accessory rails if there is still a military/National Guard presence. And plenty of high capacity mags for both.

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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by yossarian » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:30 am

Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Man, that's a thinker. I guess an high quality AKM with a folding stock, LED tac light and laser sight combo if the scenario is full on WROL, a Glock 21 with laser and light combo on the accessory rails if there is still a military/National Guard presence. And plenty of high capacity mags for both.
That's a pretty sick combo for sure. But if we're relying on battlefield pick ups and health packs, I really think a shorty suppressed AR and a Ceiner conversion would be a better choice than your folding Commie gun.
" So, brave knights,
if you do doubt your courage or your strength, come no further,
for death awaits you all with nasty, big, pointy teeth."

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moab
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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by moab » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:21 am

yossarian wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:30 am
Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Man, that's a thinker. I guess an high quality AKM with a folding stock, LED tac light and laser sight combo if the scenario is full on WROL, a Glock 21 with laser and light combo on the accessory rails if there is still a military/National Guard presence. And plenty of high capacity mags for both.
That's a pretty sick combo for sure. But if we're relying on battlefield pick ups and health packs, I really think a shorty suppressed AR and a Ceiner conversion would be a better choice than your folding Commie gun.
LMAO! Lay off the new guy. He doesn't even know what a ceiner conversion is! (still laughing...)
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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by Stercutus » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:21 am

yossarian wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:30 am
Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Man, that's a thinker. I guess an high quality AKM with a folding stock, LED tac light and laser sight combo if the scenario is full on WROL, a Glock 21 with laser and light combo on the accessory rails if there is still a military/National Guard presence. And plenty of high capacity mags for both.
That's a pretty sick combo for sure. But if we're relying on battlefield pick ups and health packs, I really think a shorty suppressed AR and a Ceiner conversion would be a better choice than your folding Commie gun.
C'mon man the hood will be lousy with AK47's laying all over the ground after the first wave hits. Biggest issue will be being careful enough not to trip over them. Most will still be at least half full, wherever it jammed at.
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by moab » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:30 am

Stercutus wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:21 am
yossarian wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:30 am
Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Man, that's a thinker. I guess an high quality AKM with a folding stock, LED tac light and laser sight combo if the scenario is full on WROL, a Glock 21 with laser and light combo on the accessory rails if there is still a military/National Guard presence. And plenty of high capacity mags for both.
That's a pretty sick combo for sure. But if we're relying on battlefield pick ups and health packs, I really think a shorty suppressed AR and a Ceiner conversion would be a better choice than your folding Commie gun.
C'mon man the hood will be lousy with AK47's laying all over the ground after the first wave hits. Biggest issue will be being careful enough not to trip over them. Most will still be at least half full, wherever it jammed at.
Ok. I just choked on my coffee. It's ok though. It's decaf. LMAO!!!

But really all the AK's are going to be from all the invading Chinese that died at the hands of my Ninja slipper spikes.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by moab » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:35 am

Stercutus wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:21 am
yossarian wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:30 am
Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Man, that's a thinker. I guess an high quality AKM with a folding stock, LED tac light and laser sight combo if the scenario is full on WROL, a Glock 21 with laser and light combo on the accessory rails if there is still a military/National Guard presence. And plenty of high capacity mags for both.
That's a pretty sick combo for sure. But if we're relying on battlefield pick ups and health packs, I really think a shorty suppressed AR and a Ceiner conversion would be a better choice than your folding Commie gun.
C'mon man the hood will be lousy with AK47's laying all over the ground after the first wave hits. Biggest issue will be being careful enough not to trip over them. Most will still be at least half full, wherever it jammed at.
And what are you doing up at this hour? Isn't it lights out at your mother's basement?
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

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flybynight
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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by flybynight » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:46 am

moab wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:30 am
Stercutus wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:21 am
yossarian wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:30 am
Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Man, that's a thinker. I guess an high quality AKM with a folding stock, LED tac light and laser sight combo if the scenario is full on WROL, a Glock 21 with laser and light combo on the accessory rails if there is still a military/National Guard presence. And plenty of high capacity mags for both.
That's a pretty sick combo for sure. But if we're relying on battlefield pick ups and health packs, I really think a shorty suppressed AR and a Ceiner conversion would be a better choice than your folding Commie gun.
C'mon man the hood will be lousy with AK47's laying all over the ground after the first wave hits. Biggest issue will be being careful enough not to trip over them. Most will still be at least half full, wherever it jammed at.
Ok. I just choked on my coffee. It's ok though. It's decaf. LMAO!!!

But really all the AK's are going to be from all the invading Chinese that died at the hands of my Ninja slipper spikes.
Help me understand what you wrote . which of these most closely portrays your remark
Image

Image

Image

Image


and are the spikes carbon or stainless?
As of now I bet you got me wrong

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moab
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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by moab » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:53 am

Image

I think they're pot metal. Thats code for magic steel.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

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flybynight
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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by flybynight » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:57 am

moab wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:53 am
Image

I think they're pot metal. Thats code for magic steel.
majic spikes. Ok I don't want them. I NEED THEM !''


But where do the hands come in? It doesn't matter . Need trumps logic every time
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by moab » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:09 am

flybynight wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:57 am
moab wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:53 am
Image

I think they're pot metal. Thats code for magic steel.
majic spikes. Ok I don't want them. I NEED THEM !''


But where do the hands come in? It doesn't matter . Need trumps logic every time
When you talk about them you have to say the words "Magic Steel" real quick. Like - MAGIC STEEEEEL!!!
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

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flybynight
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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by flybynight » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:37 am

moab wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:09 am
flybynight wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:57 am
moab wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:53 am
Image

I think they're pot metal. Thats code for magic steel.
majic spikes. Ok I don't want them. I NEED THEM !''


But where do the hands come in? It doesn't matter . Need trumps logic every time
When you talk about them you have to say the words "Magic Steel" real quick. Like - MAGIC STEEEEEL!!!
Bet that's specified right in the included owners manual. If those came in camo, I could rule the world
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by RickOShea » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:45 pm

One gun to rule them all. :clownshoes:




Image
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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by woodsghost » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:54 pm

flybynight wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:37 am
moab wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:09 am
flybynight wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:57 am
moab wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:53 am
Image

I think they're pot metal. Thats code for magic steel.
majic spikes. Ok I don't want them. I NEED THEM !''


But where do the hands come in? It doesn't matter . Need trumps logic every time
When you talk about them you have to say the words "Magic Steel" real quick. Like - MAGIC STEEEEEL!!!
Bet that's specified right in the included owners manual. If those came in camo, I could rule the world
Come on guys. This is the Internet, not a toy. We need to be serious.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by flybynight » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:56 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:54 pm
flybynight wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:37 am
moab wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:09 am
flybynight wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:57 am


majic spikes. Ok I don't want them. I NEED THEM !''


But where do the hands come in? It doesn't matter . Need trumps logic every time
When you talk about them you have to say the words "Magic Steel" real quick. Like - MAGIC STEEEEEL!!!
Bet that's specified right in the included owners manual. If those came in camo, I could rule the world
Come on guys. This is the Internet, not a toy. We need to be serious.
Quiet you.
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:00 pm

moab wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:09 am
flybynight wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:57 am
moab wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:53 am
Image

I think they're pot metal. Thats code for magic steel.
majic spikes. Ok I don't want them. I NEED THEM !''


But where do the hands come in? It doesn't matter . Need trumps logic every time
When you talk about them you have to say the words "Magic Steel" real quick. Like - MAGIC STEEEEEL!!!
I prefer to go gray man with my ninja spikes...

Image
They see me trollin', they hatin'.... keyboardin' tryna catch me typin' dirty
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Her secondary offense will be nagging.

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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:01 pm

To keep it on track, I've always like the PLR16 from KelTec.

I've def said that before...
They see me trollin', they hatin'.... keyboardin' tryna catch me typin' dirty
Halfapint wrote:There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
zero11010 wrote:The girlfriend is a good shot with a 10/22.
Her secondary offense will be nagging.

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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by moab » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:57 pm

Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Man, that's a thinker. I guess an high quality AKM with a folding stock, LED tac light and laser sight combo if the scenario is full on WROL, a Glock 21 with laser and light combo on the accessory rails if there is still a military/National Guard presence. And plenty of high capacity mags for both.
OK. TO be serious. I like how this guy thinks. Except all the battery operated stuff. Except I'd take the .22 conversion for the pistol. Just a normal one. Cause I can't afford the Ciener. (Ok. So I'm not totally serious.) ;)

My actual PAW gun is a side folding stock (don't do the underfolder. not stable enough.) AKM and a Glock 19. I also have a backup AR15 10.5" pistol in 5.56. So welcome aboard, Cthulhu 669! Good choice.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by Cthulhu 669 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:13 am

moab wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:57 pm
Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Man, that's a thinker. I guess an high quality AKM with a folding stock, LED tac light and laser sight combo if the scenario is full on WROL, a Glock 21 with laser and light combo on the accessory rails if there is still a military/National Guard presence. And plenty of high capacity mags for both.
OK. TO be serious. I like how this guy thinks. Except all the battery operated stuff. Except I'd take the .22 conversion for the pistol. Just a normal one. Cause I can't afford the Ciener. (Ok. So I'm not totally serious.) ;)

My actual PAW gun is a side folding stock (don't do the underfolder. not stable enough.) AKM and a Glock 19. I also have a backup AR15 10.5" pistol in 5.56. So welcome aboard, Cthulhu 669! Good choice.
Well, to be honest, I hate the 9x19mm and the jam prone AR15/M16 (the U.S. military claims to have fixed the jam issues with every iteration, yet at gen 4 it still is a jam prone rifle/carbine platform, and the M855.SS109 rounds punch a narrow, little, thru and thru .22 caliber hole that requires multiple solid hits to put the enemy down. I'm from the Hampton Roads/Tidewater, VA area, a big military area, and have grown up with family and friends telling me about that shitty M16/M4, and I used to own a Beretta M92FS 9mm and it was jam crazy[and I take care of my guns and use factory mags, but this bitch was jam prone as hell. Plus, the 9x19mm is a "maybe" round (maybe it will do the job, maybe you plug him 6 times in the center mass and he still keeps shooting at you). Give me a .45 ACP and 7.62 any day

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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by yossarian » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:06 pm

Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:13 am


Well, to be honest, I hate the 9x19mm and the jam prone AR15/M16 (the U.S. military claims to have fixed the jam issues with every iteration, yet at gen 4 it still is a jam prone rifle/carbine platform, and the M855.SS109 rounds punch a narrow, little, thru and thru .22 caliber hole that requires multiple solid hits to put the enemy down. I'm from the Hampton Roads/Tidewater, VA area, a big military area, and have grown up with family and friends telling me about that shitty M16/M4, and I used to own a Beretta M92FS 9mm and it was jam crazy[and I take care of my guns and use factory mags, but this bitch was jam prone as hell. Plus, the 9x19mm is a "maybe" round (maybe it will do the job, maybe you plug him 6 times in the center mass and he still keeps shooting at you). Give me a .45 ACP and 7.62 any day
If the 9mm Parabellum is good enough to protect the largest retail shopping complex in the US, its good enough for me 8-)
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if you do doubt your courage or your strength, come no further,
for death awaits you all with nasty, big, pointy teeth."

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Stercutus
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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by Stercutus » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:15 pm

omega_man wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:24 pm
majorhavoc wrote:Mini-14 w/ underbarrel Taurus Judge and under-underbarrel 37 mm flare launcher.
Well played good sir, well played indeed. Would that be considered a game changer?
Mini14 and Taurus anything and I am in.

Is that going to be SXS or Under and under?
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by moab » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:00 pm

Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:13 am
moab wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:57 pm
Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Man, that's a thinker. I guess an high quality AKM with a folding stock, LED tac light and laser sight combo if the scenario is full on WROL, a Glock 21 with laser and light combo on the accessory rails if there is still a military/National Guard presence. And plenty of high capacity mags for both.
OK. TO be serious. I like how this guy thinks. Except all the battery operated stuff. Except I'd take the .22 conversion for the pistol. Just a normal one. Cause I can't afford the Ciener. (Ok. So I'm not totally serious.) ;)

My actual PAW gun is a side folding stock (don't do the underfolder. not stable enough.) AKM and a Glock 19. I also have a backup AR15 10.5" pistol in 5.56. So welcome aboard, Cthulhu 669! Good choice.
Well, to be honest, I hate the 9x19mm and the jam prone AR15/M16 (the U.S. military claims to have fixed the jam issues with every iteration, yet at gen 4 it still is a jam prone rifle/carbine platform, and the M855.SS109 rounds punch a narrow, little, thru and thru .22 caliber hole that requires multiple solid hits to put the enemy down. I'm from the Hampton Roads/Tidewater, VA area, a big military area, and have grown up with family and friends telling me about that shitty M16/M4, and I used to own a Beretta M92FS 9mm and it was jam crazy[and I take care of my guns and use factory mags, but this bitch was jam prone as hell. Plus, the 9x19mm is a "maybe" round (maybe it will do the job, maybe you plug him 6 times in the center mass and he still keeps shooting at you). Give me a .45 ACP and 7.62 any day
I hear what your saying. But you also have to keep in mind what kind of ammo will be available in a PAW or SHTF situation. (although I'm not sure we've identified exactly what is meant by "SHTF" for the purposes of this thread. I'm assuming it's a total breakdown.) 7.62 is going to run out long before 5.56 unfortunately. And .45 will run out before 9mm. SO it might not be a bad idea to have a back up AR or something that shoots 5.56. And something that shoots 9mm. Food for thought.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by moab » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:03 pm

yossarian wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:06 pm
Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:13 am


Well, to be honest, I hate the 9x19mm and the jam prone AR15/M16 (the U.S. military claims to have fixed the jam issues with every iteration, yet at gen 4 it still is a jam prone rifle/carbine platform, and the M855.SS109 rounds punch a narrow, little, thru and thru .22 caliber hole that requires multiple solid hits to put the enemy down. I'm from the Hampton Roads/Tidewater, VA area, a big military area, and have grown up with family and friends telling me about that shitty M16/M4, and I used to own a Beretta M92FS 9mm and it was jam crazy[and I take care of my guns and use factory mags, but this bitch was jam prone as hell. Plus, the 9x19mm is a "maybe" round (maybe it will do the job, maybe you plug him 6 times in the center mass and he still keeps shooting at you). Give me a .45 ACP and 7.62 any day
If the 9mm Parabellum is good enough to protect the largest retail shopping complex in the US, its good enough for me 8-)
What ever happened to the good ole nightstick? I don't see cops carrying those anymore. Too much liability? Seriously curious. Night sticks remind me of the old mall cop that wasn't allowed to carry gun and could only have a night stick. I think security guards used to be the same too. Seemed to be a huge shift away from them.

I was also looking up collapsible batons the other day. Cause I have a cheap one from way back when. And thought I'd throw it in the door holder in my Jeep. But man all sorts of laws have passed and you can't carry those even in your car locked up anymore. Or maybe that's just Kommiefornia where I live. Don't recall. But I was shocked you basically could not own them.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by NT2C » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:47 pm

moab wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:00 pm
Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:13 am
moab wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:57 pm
Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Man, that's a thinker. I guess an high quality AKM with a folding stock, LED tac light and laser sight combo if the scenario is full on WROL, a Glock 21 with laser and light combo on the accessory rails if there is still a military/National Guard presence. And plenty of high capacity mags for both.
OK. TO be serious. I like how this guy thinks. Except all the battery operated stuff. Except I'd take the .22 conversion for the pistol. Just a normal one. Cause I can't afford the Ciener. (Ok. So I'm not totally serious.) ;)

My actual PAW gun is a side folding stock (don't do the underfolder. not stable enough.) AKM and a Glock 19. I also have a backup AR15 10.5" pistol in 5.56. So welcome aboard, Cthulhu 669! Good choice.
Well, to be honest, I hate the 9x19mm and the jam prone AR15/M16 (the U.S. military claims to have fixed the jam issues with every iteration, yet at gen 4 it still is a jam prone rifle/carbine platform, and the M855.SS109 rounds punch a narrow, little, thru and thru .22 caliber hole that requires multiple solid hits to put the enemy down. I'm from the Hampton Roads/Tidewater, VA area, a big military area, and have grown up with family and friends telling me about that shitty M16/M4, and I used to own a Beretta M92FS 9mm and it was jam crazy[and I take care of my guns and use factory mags, but this bitch was jam prone as hell. Plus, the 9x19mm is a "maybe" round (maybe it will do the job, maybe you plug him 6 times in the center mass and he still keeps shooting at you). Give me a .45 ACP and 7.62 any day
I hear what your saying. But you also have to keep in mind what kind of ammo will be available in a PAW or SHTF situation. (although I'm not sure we've identified exactly what is meant by "SHTF" for the purposes of this thread. I'm assuming it's a total breakdown.) 7.62 is going to run out long before 5.56 unfortunately. And .45 will run out before 9mm. SO it might not be a bad idea to have a back up AR or something that shoots 5.56. And something that shoots 9mm. Food for thought.
9mm and 5.56 are going to be hoarded more than gold in a PAW though, which will put quite a crimp in the supply chain, even with the vast amounts. I'm thinking that .22 LR will be pretty available, maybe .22 WMR too, and various gauges and types of shotgun ammo, other than 00 or slugs, should also be available. Thus, the ideal single gun would be a tri-barrel shotty with the center barrel being .22 WMR (which I believe will work with .22 LR too) :mrgreen:
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Re: SHTF and you can only have one gun

Post by NT2C » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:48 pm

moab wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:03 pm
yossarian wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:06 pm
Cthulhu 669 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:13 am


Well, to be honest, I hate the 9x19mm and the jam prone AR15/M16 (the U.S. military claims to have fixed the jam issues with every iteration, yet at gen 4 it still is a jam prone rifle/carbine platform, and the M855.SS109 rounds punch a narrow, little, thru and thru .22 caliber hole that requires multiple solid hits to put the enemy down. I'm from the Hampton Roads/Tidewater, VA area, a big military area, and have grown up with family and friends telling me about that shitty M16/M4, and I used to own a Beretta M92FS 9mm and it was jam crazy[and I take care of my guns and use factory mags, but this bitch was jam prone as hell. Plus, the 9x19mm is a "maybe" round (maybe it will do the job, maybe you plug him 6 times in the center mass and he still keeps shooting at you). Give me a .45 ACP and 7.62 any day
If the 9mm Parabellum is good enough to protect the largest retail shopping complex in the US, its good enough for me 8-)
What ever happened to the good ole nightstick? I don't see cops carrying those anymore. Too much liability? Seriously curious. Night sticks remind me of the old mall cop that wasn't allowed to carry gun and could only have a night stick. I think security guards used to be the same too. Seemed to be a huge shift away from them.

I was also looking up collapsible batons the other day. Cause I have a cheap one from way back when. And thought I'd throw it in the door holder in my Jeep. But man all sorts of laws have passed and you can't carry those even in your car locked up anymore. Or maybe that's just Kommiefornia where I live. Don't recall. But I was shocked you basically could not own them.
Yeah, they're pretty verboten for civilians in most areas that I'm familiar with and have been for a long time now.
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto

Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

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