If you didn't have a firearm...

[Lycosa]

I'm not much of a firearm guy, not because I don't think they are superior as a weapon or for hunting, but because I enjoy primitive/improvised weapons as a hobby.

I don't hunt with a firearm either. Since I don't hunt with a firearm, and I do hunt, I have to spend quite a bit of time target shooting in order to remain a capable hunter.

My question is:

Let's suppose you are in a PAW situation and you are no longer able to use a firearm. Perhaps they were taken, maybe you ran out of ammo killing the massive hordes of zombies, or whatever hypothetical situation that separated you from all of your firearms. Whatever scenario you want to dream up, it's what has happened to you.

Now.. you are in a situation that required you to hunt for food.

What are you able to improvise that will put food on the table? Please don't tell me that you'll trap game.. I know that's quite possible, but I'm more interested in finding out what people have already done to improvise a weapon for hunting.

Myself, I've made several bows from wood and now PVC. I've made primitive arrow shafts and improvised fletching out of different materials. I've also put together some hunting capable slingshots and I've even messed around with a sling (god help me if I have to rely on my 'sling' skills). I've also practiced with rabbit sticks on occasion. I've made several other weapons at different times, but honestly, I could only say that I'm proficient enough with a slingshot or bow to put food on the table.

The point is, what have you done to be proficient with a weapon that is not a firearm? What have you built? I think everyone should at least pick one weapon that they can build themselves and be proficient with. I'm not saying do it because a PAW is around the corner, but rather it's sort of a confidence builder for anyone that spends a lot of time out hiking and camping like myself to know that if you had to.. you could rely on 'insert weapon of choice here' to hunt and defend yourself if you found yourself in a survival situation that required it. It's the same reason you learn to make a hand or bow drill to start a fire before you go out camping. If you ever need the skill, it's best to be proficient with it before an emergency that required it.

[Kutter_0311]

Spear.

If I have a knife, I can make a spear.

A spear handles much like a fixed bayonet, and I have some degree of training in bayonet fighting...

Hopefully, I can use this to get my rifle back

[bae]

I don't know why you'd want to rule out traps and snares. I used to run a trapline for profit when I was a kid, the nice thing is that it works while you are in bed or off to school or playing football

Fishing, not with rod-and-reel, but with nets and fishtraps is also a wonderfully lazy way to go.

In a PAW, I'd think you'd want maximum yield for minimum effort. While I'm quite good with a bow or spear, I think traps and nets are superior to stalking through the woods with a hand-held weapon.

If I truly had to deal with a weapon, I'd go with a spear, bow or atlatl.

[Lycosa]

I don't know why you'd want to rule out traps and snares. I used to run a trapline for profit when I was a kid, the nice thing is that it works while you are in bed or off to school or playing football

Fishing, not with rod-and-reel, but with nets and fishtraps is also a wonderfully lazy way to go.

In a PAW, I'd think you'd want maximum yield for minimum effort. While I'm quite good with a bow or spear, I think traps and nets are superior to stalking through the woods with a hand-held weapon.

If I truly had to deal with a weapon, I'd go with a spear, bow or atlatl.

I absolutely agree with you on traps. I am just more trying to find out what people have done to think outside the box. In a PAW, if I were forced into a situation that required that I kill game to eat, trapping would be my number 1 choice. I would however improvise a weapon of some sort for an opportunity shot or maybe just for that extra feeling of having a ranged weapon on hand for defense. I would just like to know if people have taken the opportunity to learn to create an improvised weapon and if they are proficient with it. I thought it would be interesting to see what people have come with, if anything. Primitive and improvised weapons are a real interest of mine and I think it's not a bad idea to have learned at least to create something that works and further to have practiced with it enough to actually be able to use it.

[Tater Raider]

Outside the box I'd trap, and that's not me being a smart-ass. Everyone will have to be calorie efficient in the PAW and I'm only one guy so trapping is the route I'd go with the exception of deer, and then I prefer to find why they hang out and then drive around until one jumps through my windshield.

F*****g deer.

On hunting: When I do the gathering/roaming around in the ZPAW I'd keep an eye out for animal sign, features that would attract critters, and maybe even the critters themselves but not hunt them, just scout the lay of the land. When I think I've found where my best odds are, I'd set up a stand and wait. Rabbits and squirrels are obvious exceptions because they are everywhere.


EtA: bow hunting FWIW.

[free0352]

I have a big knife that can make a spear (using my skills to make cordage and find wood) not to mention the knife is's self. That takes care of close and medium range. For longer range, I'm make a bola out of rocks and more cordage. 3-5 good sized rocks, make and tie netting around each rock, and a lanyard from each net connecting at the bottom. Contraption can be thrown to entangle and trip an opponent or you can whack someone on the skull with it like the old medieval Mace-and-Chain. That will stun an animal if thrown or horrifically smash the skull of an intended target... like the walking dead. As for further range, have to go with a recurve torque bow and arrows. That of course assumes I can find or kill a bird for fletching or improvise some other material.

[Lycosa]

I have a big knife that can make a spear (using my skills to make cordage and find wood) not to mention the knife is's self. That takes care of close and medium range. For longer range, I'm make a bola out of rocks and more cordage. 3-5 good sized rocks, make and tie netting around each rock, and a lanyard from each net connecting at the bottom. Contraption can be thrown to entangle and trip an opponent or you can whack someone on the skull with it like the old medieval Mace-and-Chain. That will stun an animal if thrown or horrifically smash the skull of an intended target... like the walking dead. As for further range, have to go with a recurve torque bow and arrows. That of course assumes I can find or kill a bird for fletching or improvise some other material.

I've never tried a bola. I've seen them used, but I have no idea of how hard it would be to throw them properly. They look like they would be quite effective, but without any sort of mechanical advantage, I don't know what kind of range you'd get. I can make accurate weapons that would shoot outside 15 yards, but of course the more accurate, the more time I'd spend making it. I'm guessing a bola would be as good for as far as a person could throw a rock, but how does throwing one so that those rocks spread out in flight affect distance?

[Lycosa]

Outside the box I'd trap, and that's not me being a smart-ass. Everyone will have to be calorie efficient in the PAW and I'm only one guy so trapping is the route I'd go with the exception of deer, and then I prefer to find why they hang out and then drive around until one jumps through my windshield.

F*****g deer.

On hunting: When I do the gathering/roaming around in the ZPAW I'd keep an eye out for animal sign, features that would attract critters, and maybe even the critters themselves but not hunt them, just scout the lay of the land. When I think I've found where my best odds are, I'd set up a stand and wait. Rabbits and squirrels are obvious exceptions because they are everywhere.


EtA: bow hunting FWIW.

I agree with you too about trapping and I'm well versed about risk vs reward in the calorie game. Trapping is the best method for getting game if you are trying to conserve calories and I would never debate that. I still believe there's very good reason to be able to improvise a capable hunting weapon that you are proficient at using. Even with lots of traps, there's no gaurantee and having that weapon on hand for that suprise opportunity to hunt some food has merit. I guess depending on your location, a bow can be fashioned easily enough, but a powerful and accurate bow takes considerably more work.. unless you have some PVC on hand. I was pretty blown away at how powerful and easy to make those bows are.

A spear, as has been mentioned can certainly be effective, but have any of you that mentioned it attempted any practice with one? I haven't really spent any time trying it so I"m wondering how much practice it would take to be accurate. The only thing I'd argue about a spear I suppose is that using your knife as a spearhead is pretty much a no-go in my book.

Never tried an atlatl but I think I might give it a go. Definitely easier to make than a bow, but again, might take a lot of practice and as I understand it, takes a much longer arrow to be accurate.

[elektrik]

Lycosa
I did onions and arrows, but to get to a target the big skill is necessary, it is necessary to train much if the person isn't able to shoot from onions that to waste time on firing from onions there is no sense, it is necessary to study in advance, the same principle and in other types of weapon which than or shoots

ru
Lycosa
я делал лук и стрелы, но попасть в мишень нужна большая сноровка, надо много тренироваться, если человек не умеет стрелять с лука то тратить время на стрельбу с лука нет смысла, надо учиться заранее, такой же принцип и в остальных видах оружия которое чем либо стреляет

[Tetra Grammaton Cleric]

The translation for bow = onion is an interesting one.

Перевод лук = лук интересным.

We used to make fish spears out of wild bamboo to catch Yabbies (small freshwater crustaeceans) when we were kids like this one on the right with varying degrees of success.

Мы использовали, чтобы рыба копья из дикого бамбука поймать Yabbies (мелкие ракообразные пресной воды), когда мы были детьми,как в один по правую сторону этой картины с разной степенью успеха.



-

[Yeti]

Spear, can make it with a knife if you have one or with paitence a rock sharpening it.
I'm actually faced with the situation of not having a firearm everyday I walk into the office. Federal building in DC, they frown on things that go bang around here.
So it's definitely something that has rolled around my brain housing group before. I'm 40 miles from where I parked as well, so my office GHB is stocked accordingly.

[majorhavoc]

I know OP has defined the starting parameters of this thread. But his central question is predicated on a fundamental assumption, and this wouldn't be ZS without someone questioning that assumption.

Primarily, I wouldn't hunt.

I'd grow/raise most of my food. In my AO, fishing could also work, assuming the oceans aren't polluted by whatever precipitated the disaster.

At my age, lack of hunting/tracking experience and middle-aged eyes, the time/energy expenditure to become proficient with a primative weapon system would likely be a poor survival strategy. As for small game? Easy peasy. My Beeman RS2 airgun.

[HKTackDriver]

I love improbable WWYD threads.

"If you were one armed, lived in a hobbit house, couldn't cut firewood and rabbid bunnies were outside your door and all you had was a toothpick, hand grenade pin and some strawberries, WHAT WOULD YOU DO!?"

In this scenario, I do have guns, I do have ammo, I do have a compound bow and a good number of arrows, traps, snares, etc. So I plan on using them. Making an inferior bow, or a speer I have to get in closer with or something else handmade is the last of my concerns in the PAW. Want to hunt "tribal" now? Sounds fun, let us know how the hunt goes. And when the under powered bow you created, causes undue pain and suffering for whatever you shot, I hope you reevaluate your home made weapons. Unless they're feral hogs. I hate feral hogs.

[ZombieGranny]

If my hens were gone, I would hunt for & gather fertilized eggs of the ducks down at the lake, hatch them out and eat eggs, drakes & the occasional duck for many years.
Lots of fish, clams, scallops, kelp, etc too.
The Indians around here used to smoke salmon for winter food and for trade.
I love hard-smoked salmon.

[Mr. E. Monkey]

If my hens were gone, I would hunt for & gather fertilized eggs of the ducks down at the lake, hatch them out and eat eggs, drakes & the occasional duck for many years.
Lots of fish, clams, scallops, kelp, etc too.
The Indians around here used to smoke salmon for winter food and for trade.
I love hard-smoked salmon.

We have lots of quail running around wild down here, so I'd probably try something along those lines too.

And be anxiously engaged in building a flintlock rifle or something along those lines, if I don't get around to trying it before the ZPAW.

[Lycosa]

I love improbable WWYD threads.

"If you were one armed, lived in a hobbit house, couldn't cut firewood and rabbid bunnies were outside your door and all you had was a toothpick, hand grenade pin and some strawberries, WHAT WOULD YOU DO!?"

In this scenario, I do have guns, I do have ammo, I do have a compound bow and a good number of arrows, traps, snares, etc. So I plan on using them. Making an inferior bow, or a speer I have to get in closer with or something else handmade is the last of my concerns in the PAW. Want to hunt "tribal" now? Sounds fun, let us know how the hunt goes. And when the under powered bow you created, causes undue pain and suffering for whatever you shot, I hope you reevaluate your home made weapons. Unless they're feral hogs. I hate feral hogs.

LMAO!

I know the parameters that I set in the beginning could seem a bit extraordinary. Then again, I set them that way so that every response wouldn't be "They'll never get my gun" or "I'll trap, and only trap". The purpose of this thread was to maybe get a couple folks thinking about the idea of practicing with an improvised weapon. IMO, the idea has merit.

I'd really have to disagree on creating undue suffering. I do hunt with primitive weapons as it's legal here in Florida on private land and some wildlife management areas open up for primitive hunting as well. The PVC bow that I build tillers at near 40 lbs which is more than adequate for a clean kill in the hand of a skilled hunter. If I wanted, there are several PVC bow designs that have tillered at 80 lbs and a quick youtube search will yeild plenty of results. There are a lot of weak designs out there for survival bows, but again that's why I brought up the point of learning to build an effective weapon and practicing how to use it well before you find yourself in a situation that required it. I have slingshots that are more than capable of instant kills on small game if shot placement is correct. On the other hand, trapping is a legitmate form of collecting game and can be quite a bit more brutal than a primitive weapon.

Spears.. I'm not a big fan of them since I would never sacrifice my knife as a spearpoint. But.. I must admit that the spear was an extremely accurate weapon in the hands of someone skilled in using one. There's no doubt that spears can take out big game and are still used to take out hippos and elephants by tribesman. My thought is if you were really good at using one.. definitely a skill to develop before finding yourself in a situation that required you to hunt with one, then it's plenty powerful to make a quick kill.

Feral hogs.. ya I'm not a fan of them either.. but I love bacon.

Again, I'm not promoting primitive weapons over firearms. I'm simply trying to provoke a little thought on why someone might consider picking a weapon they can put together that is capable of hunting and that they can be proficient with so that a clean kill can be accomplished without undue suffering. After all, it's not impossible to find yourself in a survival situation without a firearm or with a firearm but short on ammo.

[JustInCase]

Fishing poles, nets, crab traps.

[Murph]

"Any problem on earth can be solved with the careful application of high explosives. The trick is to not be around when they go off."

I'm thinking you could do some serious fishing with dynamite.

[Rev]

Why are we hunting? Doesn't your future dinner just come when you call?

[Lycosa]

"Any problem on earth can be solved with the careful application of high explosives. The trick is to not be around when they go off."

I'm thinking you could do some serious fishing with dynamite.

ya.. that'll definitely put food on the table. As a bonus, it'll arrive precooked on your plate.

Why are we hunting? Doesn't your future dinner just come when you call?

nice... I can see it now.. "Daddy, where's Fluffy?" "Don't worry honey, just finish your dinner".

[Rev]

While true, I was referring to something a bit more bovine.

[Lycosa]

While true, I was referring to something a bit more bovine.

Oh ok, I completely misinterpreted that.

I don't want to derail my own thread, but I guess it could be argued that having cows in a PAW could be a real challenge. I raise chickens and everything wants to kill my chickens.. especially raccoons. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to defend cows against hungry humans.

[Rev]

While true, I was referring to something a bit more bovine.

Oh ok, I completely misinterpreted that.

I don't want to derail my own thread, but I guess it could be argued that having cows in a PAW could be a real challenge. I raise chickens and everything wants to kill my chickens.. especially raccoons. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to defend cows against hungry humans.

My cattle tend to realize that they weigh over a thousand pounds and the local dogs and coyotes are very fragile in comparison.

EDIT: Our cattle are very mixed, but this is the primary genetic stock. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hereford_%28cattle%29

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Trapping is already on my "do" list for food. Much easier/more efficient than shooting at things.

For defense, I'm gonna go old school and get a rock. Maybe a sharp rock (I have no other weapons, right? No knife?) Then I'm gonna knock down a tree. Then I'm gonna make that young tree into a pointy stick. Then I'm gonna find whoever has my guns, and poke him with the stick until he gives them back.

If I have to fight without a gun, I've always fought [fighting style redacted for OPSEC]

So yeah, its guns, or I'm just gonna do my [pop culture reference redacted for OPSEC] impression.