Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you do?

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by wamba » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:35 am

I'm with Squinty, I don't have a lot of faith in the politicians & bureaucrats to destroy the records much less resist occupiers. Although he does give them more credit than I would for having justified reasons.

Berkum you'd be surprised just how many people here do pay with cash, not to mention how many only buy guns from individuals (no paperwork). Distrust of government & individualism are still considered to be a normal American trait in some areas here. As for the occasional accessory we might buy off the net or with a card, everybody has a friend or relative that shoots. "Oh that scope mount was for poor uncle Ralph, that worthless nephew sold most of his stuff so he could buy meth while Ralph was battling cancer!"
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it, & you can bet they'll whine that nobody warned them.

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by Tater Raider » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:57 am

I'd head for Indiana and buy a lot of fireworks. Why allow the invaders to get settled in their first night? Put on a light show to really keep them going "WTF?"

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by Trent » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:14 am

I think it would take quite some time for any large scale anti-partisan sweeps to occur. The US military is larger than the next four put together; any invading army is going to have it's hands full at the frontlines between occupied and independent territory. Last thing the occupation forces would want is to be dealing with widespread revolt on top of that.

Did the Axis in WWII collect weapons in conquered territories? I don't think, but am not totally sure, that the US did either in Vietnam or Iraq. Going door to door would probably be the worst way to do it for the invaders. If they tried, I'd expect a system where weapons are traded for increased supplies, electricity, and as payment for punishments. Want an extra 25% rations? That'll be four rifles. Cousin Joe tried to rob a supply warehouse? Ten firearms. Etc.

In the first six hours though, I'd imagine that if you stayed in your house you'd be relatively safe. Government buildings, military bases, police stations, etc would be the top priority, not rooting around in a million potential ambushes. In the next few days, then you might get trouble.

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by squinty » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:15 am

Berkem, if you're trying to convince us that an occupying force would be brutal and coercive...we're convinced.
That's why I am, as of right now, becoming a pacifist and divesting myself of any and all firearms and firearm accessories. All my wicked wicked guns are going into the bottom of Raccoon Spittle Lake today. Guns...Ugh! Never want to touch another one.
(Tuneless whistle...)

I don't have a reasonably sustainable (if primitive) off the grid rural BOL to hide out in or near, either. Nor could I count on any friend or family member to shelter me or hide my stuff.

I do remember an article on NPR where they interviewed a Croatian man who'd been about 12 when his ethnically mixed city got occupied by Serbian Nationalist forces. A lot of the fighting age men got rounded up and incarcerated. His Dad and older brother hid out in the woods for a long time, and he dropped off food and supplies to them at at some discreet location, when he could. That went on for a while. Every neighbor and acquaintance in the town knew the father and brother were still at large, and had a pretty good idea where to find them, but for the longest time nobody turned them in.

Instead, they used it as leverage to settle personal scores or enact petty extortion on the family. The grocer would sometimes accept money from the kid, but hold onto some or all of the bags of groceries he'd just bought, and say "no food for Muslims today" or some such. The upstairs neighbor would drop by unannounced for tea, and when she did the mom would scramble to make some for her. The lady would say "lovely china" or "I really like that dress" or "what a nice rug" and give the mother a pointed look. The next day the rug or dress or whatever would be presented to the neighbor lady as a gift. People would stop by and collect monetary debts that the family had already paid three times over, or ask them for 'favors' - do my laundry, I have some shirts that need mending, I wonder if your son could come clean my gutters, etc. The unspoken threat was always, give in or we'll inform on you to the occupiers. These were friends, neighbors, co-workers, that the family had known and trusted for years. The high school gym teacher finally ratted out the dad and the son iirc.
George Orwell wrote:Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by squinty » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:20 am

Trent wrote:I think it would take quite some time for any large scale anti-partisan sweeps to occur. The US military is larger than the next four put together; any invading army is going to have it's hands full at the frontlines between occupied and independent territory. Last thing the occupation forces would want is to be dealing with widespread revolt on top of that.

Did the Axis in WWII collect weapons in conquered territories? I don't think, but am not totally sure, that the US did either in Vietnam or Iraq. Going door to door would probably be the worst way to do it for the invaders. If they tried, I'd expect a system where weapons are traded for increased supplies, electricity, and as payment for punishments. Want an extra 25% rations? That'll be four rifles. Cousin Joe tried to rob a supply warehouse? Ten firearms. Etc.

In the first six hours though, I'd imagine that if you stayed in your house you'd be relatively safe. Government buildings, military bases, police stations, etc would be the top priority, not rooting around in a million potential ambushes. In the next few days, then you might get trouble.
I thought that a lot of doors got kicked in during weapon searches in Iraq? Plenty of Iraq war vets here to correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there was a maximum number of weapons any family could have for sport/personal defense, and anything above that quantity was subject to confiscation/considered evidence the family was aiding insurgents.

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/may/24/world/fg-guns24" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
George Orwell wrote:Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by Kommander » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:04 am

Berkem wrote:
I wonder if our foreign friends quite understand how little record is kept of who owns what gun in our country. We keep better records of car ownership
Yes in know about that.But still you register guns in some states.
Does "I sold them all at a gun show" work better for you? And no keeping paperwork for such things is not required here.
They migt say-No,our soldier was killed a couple of blocks away from here,that doesnt work for us.We think you are hiding guns.
Well assuming that I buried them in the desert they can search where I live and find nothing and/or torture me until I tell them where I burried them. Of course doing this for all one million plus gun owners in my city will take quite some time.
Berkem wrote:
No there isn't. If the gun shops destroy all the records
Do you always pay for your guns in cash?How do you pay for your gun-related stuff from the i-net?
The records for such transactions are all electronic now and kept in data centers spread over the entire country. Said records Even if they got complete records sifting through 20 years of 300 million peoples bank records for references to gun stores is simply not economical.
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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by raptor » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:26 am

Let me inject a note of reality.

This thread is talking about a country/power that is strong enough to build up an invasion force on our borders without our knowledge. A force so big and strong that they can physically invade and potentially occupy the continental US lower 48. Such a build up would take quite a while and a lot of sophisticated efforts at intelligence gathering.

Based upon such an overwhelming effort is it not logical to think that possibly such a force would employ a computer spy network that would be sophisticated enough to tap into the various public and private computerized databases and have that information before such an invasion occurred and the data could be destroyed?

It would not matter if you bought only with cash and wore a hoodie when you bought your stuff. A force that sophisticated would figure it out.

Now the realty...Do you really think that a force that tried to engage in such a build up on our border coupled with multiple cyber attacks would be able to surprise anyone?

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by Tater Raider » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:28 am

raptor wrote:Let me inject a note of reality.
Party pooper.

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by phil_in_cs » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:46 am

Rev wrote:
Berkem wrote:There is lots of info other than that for any one who invades . There are many ways to get more or less complete list of gun enthusiasts in town.
Pretty much everyone in the entirety of Appalachia?

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Everyone between the Appalachians and the Rockies, with a goodly number of folks on the coastal sides of those ranges.
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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by Gingerbread Man » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:58 am

raptor wrote:Let me inject a note of reality.
An invasion would never happen. Even if there were a force big enough, they'd have to defeat the best submarine, the best surface fleet, the best coast guard and the premier Air Force in the world. And that's not even hitting land yet. Let's not forget, our forces are battle hardened from 10 years of fighting on two fronts. Never gonna happen however, for amusement purposes, it's kind of fun. Kind of like a Slide Fire, fucking retarded but I'm sure everyone wants to shoot one.
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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by Tater Raider » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:59 am

Regular Guy wrote:
raptor wrote:Let me inject a note of reality.
An invasion would never happen. Even if there were a force big enough, they'd have to defeat the best submarine, the best surface fleet, the best coast guard and the premier Air Force in the world. And that's not even hitting land yet. Let's not forget, our forces are battle hardened from 10 years of fighting on two fronts. Never gonna happen however, for amusement purposes, it's kind of fun. Kind of like a Slide Fire, fucking retarded but I'm sure everyone wants to shoot one.
I think Isreal has the US beat on Air Force, but that's splitting hairs really.

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by Kommander » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:12 am

One would think that they would conduct a through electronic survey and whatnot but history shows that invaders are often unprepared for the actual conditions on the ground. I would actually not be surprised if an invader completely disregarded our armed citizenry as a bunch of hunters and rednecks.
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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by Berkem » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:18 am

think it would take quite some time for any large scale anti-partisan sweeps to occur. The US military is larger than the next four put together; any invading army is going to have it's hands full at the frontlines between occupied and independent territory. Last thing the occupation forces would want is to be dealing with widespread revolt on top of that
Wrong.Germans couldn't afford to pull significant numbers of troops from the frontlines to control the territoty ,like USA in Iraq, and that is a reason why the measures they were taking were simple and effective.Taking hostages,burning down the villages with population for one killed soldier and such stuff.Also they needed people on occupied territories work fo them on farms plants mines(and they took younger people to Germany as slave labour)-in modern wars occupants dont care much about that, but who knows.To enforce that, they had police(recruited from the locals)and lots of informants.
In the first six hours though, I'd imagine that if you stayed in your house you'd be relatively safe. Government buildings, military bases, police stations, etc would be the top priority
Yes only if some patriots haven't found their blades of grass on your loan.

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by Gingerbread Man » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:26 am

Tater Raider wrote:
Regular Guy wrote:
raptor wrote:Let me inject a note of reality.
I think Isreal has the US beat on Air Force, but that's splitting hairs really.
One on one, Israelis are better pilots, however, they have a around 400 jet fighters. We have somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,000 and in that number we have around 300 next gen fighters those being the F-22, F-35 and F-18 Super Hornet. The Izzys have no next gen.

However, props to them because they are the only pilots to stand toe to toe with the US Air Force.

Fly, Fight, Win. Fuck yeah.
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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by Tater Raider » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:28 am

Regular Guy wrote:
Tater Raider wrote:
Regular Guy wrote:
raptor wrote:Let me inject a note of reality.
I think Isreal has the US beat on Air Force, but that's splitting hairs really.
One on one, Israelis are better pilots, however, they have a around 400 jet fighters. We have somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,000 and in that number we have around 300 next gen fighters those being the F-22, F-35 and F-18 Super Hornet. The Izzys have no next gen.

However, props to them because they are the only pilots to stand toe to toe with the US Air Force.

Fly, Fight, Win. Fuck yeah.
And the planes we do sell them they improve. F-15I and F-16I are great examples. Planes v. pilots, I'll take pilots. Could be argued either way though. :mrgreen:

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by Gingerbread Man » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:37 am

Tater Raider wrote:
Regular Guy wrote:
Tater Raider wrote:
Regular Guy wrote: I think Isreal has the US beat on Air Force, but that's splitting hairs really.
One on one, Israelis are better pilots, however, they have a around 400 jet fighters. We have somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,000 and in that number we have around 300 next gen fighters those being the F-22, F-35 and F-18 Super Hornet. The Izzys have no next gen.

However, props to them because they are the only pilots to stand toe to toe with the US Air Force.

Fly, Fight, Win. Fuck yeah.
And the planes we do sell them they improve. F-15I and F-16I are great examples. Planes v. pilots, I'll take pilots. Could be argued either way though. :mrgreen:
In Vegas, baby, I'm taking 10:1 odds. :mrgreen:
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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by Trent » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:16 pm

Let's say you make the decision to get out of the area before your backyard becomes the front lines. There are American and foreign military forces engaging all over the place, with the little salients and pockets that develop during an offensive. You can hear explosions, gunfire, and see smoke only a few miles away, but your immediate area is relatively quiet.

What would be the best way to dress, gear up, and escape without getting waxed by a jumpy soldier?

Replies backed up by real life anecdotes most appreciated.

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by Tater Raider » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:21 pm

If I need to evacuate within the first 6 hours because I'm about to be on the front lines just go ahead and lay down arms...

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by raptor » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:33 pm

Kommander wrote:One would think that they would conduct a through electronic survey and whatnot but history shows that invaders are often unprepared for the actual conditions on the ground. I would actually not be surprised if an invader completely disregarded our armed citizenry as a bunch of hunters and rednecks.

Underestimating an enemy is a common failing.

Though in this case I think the real failing would have to come from us allowing this massive military force to build on the border for months and then being surprised when this massive force of armor and troops makes a "surprise" push into the US.

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by bae » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:45 pm

raptor wrote: Though in this case I think the real failing would have to come from us allowing this massive military force to build on the border for months and then being surprised when this massive force of armor and troops makes a "surprise" push into the US.
Here's the view from behind my blade of grass at my beach house here, looking into Canada. I can drop rounds from my Barrett across the border if I have a mind to, I suspect.

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If they start a buildup here, and try to push down into the Pacific NW, I'll post here and let y'all know before I hop out and start setting up the M1919s and M2HBs on the beach and up on the mountain.

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by raptor » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:28 pm

bae wrote:
raptor wrote: Though in this case I think the real failing would have to come from us allowing this massive military force to build on the border for months and then being surprised when this massive force of armor and troops makes a "surprise" push into the US.
Here's the view from behind my blade of grass at my beach house here, looking into Canada. I can drop rounds from my Barrett across the border if I have a mind to, I suspect.

Image

If they start a buildup here, and try to push down into the Pacific NW, I'll post here and let y'all know before I hop out and start setting up the M1919s and M2HBs on the beach and up on the mountain.


OK BAE you are in charge of keeping an eye on that part of the Canadian Border.

Let us know if you see any overwhelming invasion forces building up. :lol:

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by bae » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:10 pm

raptor wrote: OK BAE you are in charge of keeping an eye on that part of the Canadian Border.

Let us know if you see any overwhelming invasion forces building up. :lol:
I observed a Steller Sea Lion making a close-in recon patrol just this afternoon, the border is tense!

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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by Rev » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:18 pm

bae wrote:
raptor wrote: OK BAE you are in charge of keeping an eye on that part of the Canadian Border.

Let us know if you see any overwhelming invasion forces building up. :lol:
I observed a Steller Sea Lion making a close-in recon patrol just this afternoon, the border is tense!
Keep us apprised of the situation, but do not endanger yourself comrade! Long live the Republic!
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Re: Invasion Right Now! The first six hours, what would you

Post by squinty » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:03 am

Rev wrote:
bae wrote:
raptor wrote: OK BAE you are in charge of keeping an eye on that part of the Canadian Border.

Let us know if you see any overwhelming invasion forces building up. :lol:
I observed a Steller Sea Lion making a close-in recon patrol just this afternoon, the border is tense!
Keep us apprised of the situation, but do not endanger yourself comrade! Long live the Republic!
Canadians are too polite to invade without knocking first.
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