Guys at the Front Door, 4AM

[BlakeS]

This just happened

I just moved to my new house in NH about 30 minutes from my old house. This is my first house so I picked a little bit of a fixer up, I got a good place out of town. Very quite farming community , a house about every 1/4 mile. So second week I'm there its about midnight and the baby is having a hard time sleeping so my wife asked me to go get her better bottle that she left out in the car (its about 2 a.m.) . So I grabbed my .45 from its home in the living room , and walked though my house out into my garage and opened the garage door though the garage , I walked up to the door as it was opening , the moment it was full open a man out of the pitch black moved at me very quickly with his fists up and looked very agitated ( drugged up / drunk ) , I pulled my gun very quickly and he stopped right in his tracks and put his hands up. Told him to stop , he stopped put his hands up and was sizing me up it looked like , I asked him what the fuck he was doing , he was having a hard time talking and breathing. He was VERY drunk and drugged up. I asked what he was doing again and he said do you have a light? I Told him no and asked who he was and where he was from , He told me WAY to much , told me the family he was staying with , there address , his name , where he was from(NJ), what kind of car he drives(civic) and he told me he was alone (which was a lie). I told him to wait here (didnt have my phone on me and I wanted to call the police) the second I moved away he ran for it (and I could hear his friend running after) I called the police after I had made sure everything was where it should be and locked up. They told me that they had had 2 other people call in and say there cars have been broken into and were gone though all that was taken was cigarettes though , no money or gps or anything else just ciggs. So I told the police officer what he said and he said oh i know exactly where that car is parked I was checking it out the other day. the next day he was arrested.

[Phoenix David]

One thing, please get a lock for the outer door.

this ^^^^^

[Tribunal Power]

One thing, please get a lock for the outer door.

this ^^^^^

Working on that. The lock on that door is broken, and that door takes some real elbow grease to latch. It sucks.

Also, someone mentioned that they probably didn't break in because of the TV going? The TV was not loud enough to be heard from the outside even before I turned it down, and is not visible from any windows. Whatever kept them from breaking in, it didn't have much to do with me. Either they were drunk and realized they were at the wrong house, or they just had a change of heart. Thank God.

[Number_D]

I can't honestly say that in that moment I would've called the police immediately. I would've turned a light on or something that's visible from outside the front door to let these guys know this house is occupied and the person inside is awake. If they would have turned and burned out that would be a pretty good indication that they weren't just lost. But even if you did call the police, which is a great idea, worst case scenario is the cops do a drive by and the guys are already gone but any and all suspicious activity is legitimate grounds to alert the police.

[squinty]

Sleep well tomorrow night wondering if they'll come back...
Sounds like some unnerving stuff, Trib. You did OK.

[Jeriah]

Having drunkenly entered the wrong house late at night before (opened the front door, saw that it was the wrong house, as evidenced by the cop standing there, taking off his duty rig after a day's work... ... ...), I'm glad you didn't shoot first or anything similarly rash.

A few days ago a guest of a neighbor in our apartment complex accidentally entered our apartment. Steph said, "Hello?" And he said..."Oh, shit, wrong apartment." Apparently they had a conversation and he wasn't sketchy or weird or anything, so no harm done.

My point is, as you know, it COULD HAVE been innocent. My hunch, based on the impression that you're in a single family home and not an apt. or condo where all the units look the same (as was the case in my 2 experiences), they probably WERE nervous burglars...but you erred on the right side, I'd say. Which isn't an error at all. You done right.

Take it as a learning experience to beef up home security. Front gate with lock? Front door with locks, inner and outer? Dogs are a big commitment, get 'em if you want 'em and can care for 'em. Gun safe so they don't get your guns if they break in while you're not home.

[Phoenix David]

Doors should always be locked unless you are actively using them. Now in the cooler months I do leave the sliding glass doors to the back yard open with a fan in front of them, but I do have 1 large and 1 medium dogs who do take ownership of the back yard seriously and I always have a firearm within reach.

Broken locks should be repaired immediately, not put on a to-do list.

[Power Fail]

I'd work with the dogs, train them to bark when the door or windows are messed with. It can be done pretty easily.
As for escalating, it's your house, and STL has castle doctrine. They have no right to be there, and you do.
Here's a good tip: Answer the door like Mr. Robinson.
http://www.savemefromboredom.com/4image ... age_id=235

Mr. Robinson's good, but Mr. Finkle is better.

[WOLF308]

Motion sensor for the porch light would be a good idea. perhaps even upgrading the light to a flood would be good.

[squinty]

Jeriah: Please be careful WRT which door you open, please! It behooves the defender to correctly identify targets and properly assess threats, but that doesn't mean they'll always do a good job of it!

I had an awkward shoving match with a drunk on my doorstep who wouldn't go away, he kept demanding I let him speak to "jessica." I guess she was the previous owner. In retrospect, I could have defused the situation better but I went straight to bellowing "Whoodafork is jessica/geddafuckoffamy porch!" and it turned into a sweaty little junior high close dance/wrestling match until he lost his balance and fell into my bushes.

If it happened today I'd leave the door closed.

[jamoni]

Yup. If I'm not expecting company, the door stays locked until I decide it's someone I want in my house. I've kept repairmen waiting until I called the landlord. There's just no reason to open your door for someone you don't know and trust implicitly.

[Kutter_0311]

Tribunal Power, you did just fine! I think I would have called the cops, but I call them for pretty much any suspicious behavior I observe. Sometimes I wait-n-see a few minutes, but in this, no. At that time of night, I think about 30 seconds is the longest i would wait to call 911, and most of that would have been brass-checking my pistol, and maybe grabbing my carbine, if it was in the same room. B&E is not the minor offense it sounds like, it's a gateway crime to robbery, and often rape and murder beyond that. Once you get comfy violating people's secured private spaces, violating their property and selves can become much easier.

[shrapnel]

Someone tried my door like half an hour ago (and apparently left. I was too much of a wuss to look outside and see). I called the police, who told me that there is some party going on a few blocks away, and that they've gotten some complaints about it. Then they asked if I wanted someone to come by when they have a chance, and I declined. I'm still sitting on the couch holding the AK, though, because eeek.

[Kutter_0311]

I'm still sitting on the couch holding the AK, though, because eeek.

HAHA been sitting on the couch with the AK doing mag change drills on and off for 3 hours now...

[squinty]

The thought of any small statured woman sitting on her couch cradling an AK gives me a warm fuzzy. As long as you aren't attacked by bacon I think you'll be OK .

[younggun85]

Well in the case you described the folks would be at the side door of my house. My response would be to let my american bulldog out the front door. If I hear barks followed closely by screams and crunching noises I know they were bad guys . If I hear barking and a scream and maybe more barking rather than crunching I go see whats up cause they are probably just a couple of drunks. I live in the boonies no one who belongs at my house comes out at 4am.

[Tribunal Power]

There's a noise at the door...

Normal people: open the door, inquire.

Zombie Squad: load up, lights off, NVGs on, rock back and forth in front of the couch cradling a rifle reciting excerpts from Catcher In The Rye.

I love you guys.

[Braxton]

Well in the case you described the folks would be at the side door of my house. My response would be to let my american bulldog out the front door. If I hear barks followed closely by screams and crunching noises I know they were bad guys . If I hear barking and a scream and maybe more barking rather than crunching I go see whats up cause they are probably just a couple of drunks. I live in the boonies no one who belongs at my house comes out at 4am.

Um..

How does your dog know the difference between drunks and bad guys?

[squinty]

I also distinguish between a noise and a knock. "knock knock knock" = further investigation, ask who it is, maybe look out the peekhole, etc. Chamber check whil doing it. "Rattle rattle scrap scrape/hey look, someone's trying to turn the knob" = do a full Gran Torino "Get off my lawn."

My dog - well, my then GF's dog - has thwarted a B&E burglary attempt. It happened like this: GF and drive home from her parents house one night, get home at 9 PM. The small dog in the car with us starts going nuts, but we can't see what he's barking at. Then I look at the wooded area just beside my driveaway and I see the glowing tip of a lit cigarette bobbing up and down, someone smoking is walking rapidly away from the car, parallel to the driveway, a few feet back in the trees. We can't see him, just the cherry.


I confronted him and he started saying "oh hi, is [Squinty's long suffering GF] here? I'm a friend of the family I just came to see how [GF] is doing!" [I make skeptical face. If he'd been there to visit, he'd have walked up to the car. Instead he walked into the brush and tried to sneak away.]

So the GF get's out and greets the guy enthusiastically, asks how he's been, etc. Then apologizes for not asking him in, explains we both have to go back to work. "OK," says the guy - who is gaunt and meth faced scabby, looks like a country crypt keeper - "well, I'm just staying up here at my aunt's house" (points in the direction he'd been walking when we pulled up) "come say hi if you want." Gives me a nasty look, walks back to his aunt's - not hiding in the trees and tall grass this time.

As soon as we get inside the GF freaks out, asks for the keys to the gunsafe and starts cramming jewelry, laptop, digital camera and other theftable stuff in the safe. "I didn't want to piss him off, but he wasn't just here for a visit he was looking for something to steal." Apparently she had known the guy pretty well, in school, but for the last several years he'd been an unregenerate petty thief and drug addict.
Her "Oh Hi!" routine was an attempt to defuse the confrontation, and to (hopefully) make him feel well disposed towards her - he and his associates sometimes use theft and vandalism as a way to punish personal slights/use personal slights as a way to rationalize their crimes. I'd have preferred to straight up tell him not to come back, but I went along with her instead.

Nothing to accuse the guy of, we have to leave the house unattended for work, and she told him we'd be gone. So we safe whatever we can, debate taking both cars to work (vs. coming home to a missing alternator or battery) and elected to leave a car home to simulate an occupied dwelling. Put the chow out in her little house on the back porch. Call the local sheriff's office, who know the guy by name, and let them know he'd been around. Go to work.

The GF worked in the local emergency room. At about 4AM the "old friend" turned up with horrible lacerations on his face and forehead. Told hospital staff that a dog ran up and bit him while he was putting gas in his scooter. We spoke to the aunt a couple days later (after her nephew got arrested for something completely unrelated) and according to the aunt, he claimed he came to our back door to borrow a battery charger and the dog attacked him. She said he'd talked about suing.

I wondered about the face - dogs don't usually go for a 6 foot tall man's face - then I realized: the dog's house had been made from a shipping crate that we insulated and put roof shingles on. He was bending down to see what was in the crate.

OK, so was this guy a visitor that ran afoul of our paranoid home defense precautions or was he a burglar thwarted by our loyal (and usually docile) chow? I vote burglar but if he'd been caught outside at 4 am, by us, he'd have had a cover story.

I bought the chow a steak (considerd getting her a tetanus shot), cleaned the blood off my porch, and cleared off a wide swath of brush from the lot next door, even though it wasn't our property, so the mighty jungle no longer butted right up against our driveway.

My point? I forgot - something about the guy who says "oh, sorry wrong house!" when you confront him not necessarily being innocent.

I was also relieved that the dog was ok. It would suck to "release the hounds" and hear "woof woof BANG yiiiipe yiiipe" then silence, maybe the sound of a slide racking, from your back yard.

[Apocollapse]

I had my doorbell rung at 3am once. When I didn't answer, they rung it again. That pissed me off. When you ring the doorbell of a two bedroom apartment in a major city at 3am and they don't answer, it means they're either not home or asleep. You do not fucking ring it again. I got up and answered the door, to find two slightly shady-looking twentysomethings standing outside. I didn't even give them the chance to talk. I raised my customized Cold Steel War Hammer in the direction of the nearest one's head but didn't swing it.
Dreadlocks: "Hey, calm down, man, we're just looking for our friend."
Me: "Well I'm not your fucking friend. Now FUCK OFF."
I shut the door. I heard them outside, whining about me coming out brandishing a weapon. Whatever. They're lucky it wasn't my Glock, that woulda had them browning their shorts pretty quick. I wish I would have stayed out there to lecture them on the dubious merits of ringing random doorbells at 3am, but I had to work the next day so I said fuck it and went back to bed.
Maybe they were hoodlums, maybe they really were just lost party kids "looking for their friend" .... but I had lived in that apartment for over a year so it's not as if they were looking for the previous resident or something, and these two looked like shady characters. Besides, the bottom line is, don't ring my fucking doorbell at 3am.

[maldon007]

I would think the probalem of, are they lost drunks or bg's would work itself out as they meet the resistance of the loked door... If they produce keys, fumble with them, fail to unlock door then start knocking & yelling "hey, Sally... open the damn door, bitch!... Why'd you change the fuckin' locks?" You may have an idea whats going on... Conversely, if they quietly turn the knob & when they realize it's locked, they kick it in... Or go to a window & start cutting the screen, etc. you know what to do.

[Apocollapse]

I would think the probalem of, are they lost drunks or bg's would work itself out as they meet the resistance of the loked door... If they produce keys, fumble with them, fail to unlock door then start knocking & yelling "hey, Sally... open the damn door, bitch!... Why'd you change the fuckin' locks?" You may have an idea whats going on...

Conversely, if they quietly turn the knob & when they realize it's locked, they kick it in... Or go to a window & start cutting the screen, etc. you know what to do.

Indeed I would know what to do. Washington is a castle doctrine state, if that gives you any idea ....

[squinty]

There are drawbacks and liabilities to brandishing a weapon when you open the door. Me, these days, if I'm sure it's a dangerous person or someone trying to break in, I do not open the door. In the past, that's been complicated by a need to go outside and check on dogs that lived in an enclosure behind the house.

In 2005 or 6, at about 4 am, I got woken up by a thunderous loud banging on my front door. This was maybe a day after a burglary in that same house, and I was still twitchy about it. I could hear a deep voice yelling something over and over again, but between the "Boom boom boom!" on the front door - really shaking it - and the muffling effect the door had on speech, and the way yelling distorts the way words sound, I had no idea what the person was saying. It sounded like a like a homicidal version of Charlie Brown's teacher.

I had just replaced the door, hadn't installed a peephole yet. The doorknob was on the left side of the door, it opened in. There was a wall to the right of the door, and a sofa to the immediate left. I elected to hold my XD in my left hand, stand to the left side of the door instead of directly in front of it, and used my right hand to unlock the door, twist the knob, and pop the door open it in one brisk motion.

The guy banging on the door was a uniformed city police officer.

I dropped the gun onto the sofa. He never saw it in my hand, I don't think he ever saw it at all. It was one of the same officers who'd responded to my call re/ the recent burglary. He pointed to my car sitting in the driveway, and my neighbor's car, and my neighbor's neighbor's car. All of them had the trunks open. The neighbor's neighbor had surprised someone rooting around in her car and called the police. He wanted to know if there was anything missing from my trunk. He didn't seem to remember me from the earlier call.

I'm glad I hadn't resorted to my other plan, which was to exit the back door and walk around to the front to see who was standing there.

In a better world, and in some cities, maybe the conversation would have been "OH, I'm glad it's you officer, let me put this gun away!"
"OK, sorry I scared you!"

But in that neighborhood in that city, with that particular officer, I do not think it would have gone well at all if he'd seen me fling the door open - or walk up behind him - with a pistol in my hand.

I installed the peephole later that morning.

[zephir]

this is probably symptoms of borderline paranoia, but when i hear something not right downstairs at night when I'm alone, I got check it out with my pillow-side gun (right now that's a Uberti SAA .44 Mag) the pillowside gun is always ready for use. for safety reasons there is never a round in the chamber- in my revolver that means no round where the firing pin is at rest right now. most of the time its just the house settling or something harmless outside. if i see anyone suspicious at my front door I'd stay hidden and eavesdrop. I don't think people just talking about breaking in (conspiracy to commit a crime) is worth bothering the police over. its not like I'm away from my house at night, if they don't do it tonight i'll still be here tomorrow night, the next night, so on. if they carry out their action yeah I'd call the cops. the response time is not bad, about 5-10 minutes, and since nothing big happens in my city the cops will be bored and they'll respond quite enthusiastically (with like 10 cars and the swat team). rather than showing myself with a gun and confront the people B&E my place I'd just stay safe/hidden and stay on the line with the cops, there is no castle law in California. let the cops come and have them do the work, perhaps I can go back to bed before daybreak.