would you release the inmates?

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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would you release the inmates?

Post by freenarative » Tue May 31, 2011 2:52 pm

I had this thought when watching a prison related drama on tv. By the way guys, please keep it sensible, no getting this blocked.

You are around a week into the zombie apocalypse and walk past a prison. The guards have up and left leaving all the corridors open as well as the front gate. they ended up dropping the keys at the gate as they left. You can hear the screaming from inside. They have water but haven't eaten in days. Do you do the humane thing and release them before they slowly starve to death, or, walk away because they are in there for a reason, or, "other option" remember some are in for non payments of fines some for speeding, some for lesser crimes along with killers etc. you don't know who's who or why they are in there though. WWYD?
Last edited by freenarative on Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: would you release the animals?

Post by Stercutus » Tue May 31, 2011 2:58 pm

I am pretty sure that in England as well as the US that prison break is illegal and therefore probably something we should not discuss. On a side note I am kind of disappointed that you chose to dehumanize people by calling them animals, even if they are convicts. I think that is against the rules too.
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Re: would you release the animals?

Post by FrANkNstEin » Tue May 31, 2011 3:06 pm

Other option!

The "local" prison is in the middle (!)of the city, so if i really happen to walk RUN past it, it is because i once again parked my car in front of the prison while shopping in the city. I will not have the time to do anything but get in my car and get away, much less walk inside to find the keys to the cell block...


When i read the topic, i wanted to say: Nope, i´d butcher them and make beef jerky outta them... I thought it´d be about zoo animals or somesuch... :mrgreen:

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Re: would you release the animals?

Post by Biggin » Tue May 31, 2011 3:16 pm

freenarative wrote:I had this thought when watching a prison related drama on tv. By the way guys, please keep it sensible, no getting this blocked.

You are around a week into the zombie apocalypse and walk past a prison. The guards have up and left leaving all the corridors open as well as the front gate. they ended up dropping the keys at the gate as they left. You can hear the screaming from inside. They have water but haven't eaten in days. Do you do the humane thing and release them before they slowly starve to death, or, walk away because they are in there for a reason, or, "other option" remember some are in for non payments of fines some for speeding, some for lesser crimes along with killers etc. you don't know who's who or why they are in there though. WWYD?
So... I will try to go easy buuuuuutt........

1) They are not animals, they are people.... they might have committed crimes but they are still people

2) Breaking people out of prison, whether it be the PAW or not, is illegal

3) "other options".... care to expound on this?

I get what you are saying, I really do.... but this might not be the place to discuss it. This is kind of like the "do I steal from the pharmacy to get the cure from cancer question." It might sound right to do it, but it is still against the law and thus not for discussion in places like ZS.

Just a friendly tip, not busting your balls, but check out some more threads and maybe venture out of the WWYD stuff.

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Re: would you release the animals?

Post by dogbane » Tue May 31, 2011 3:18 pm

Interesting idea. Poorly presented. Locked for review.
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Re: would you release the animals?

Post by dogbane » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:30 pm

I'm unlocking this thread provisionally. I think we can set aside the legal aspects of facilitating a jailbreak. This is more of a humanitarian vs. personal safety question.
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Re: would you release the animals?

Post by freenarative » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:41 pm

Blacksmith wrote:I am pretty sure that in England as well as the US that prison break is illegal and therefore probably something we should not discuss. On a side note I am kind of disappointed that you chose to dehumanize people by calling them animals, even if they are convicts. I think that is against the rules too.
Prison break IS illegal, that is true, however to make a point, zombies don't exist and as far as I know the world hasn't ended. This was a hypothetical situation to make people think about them selves and who they are. I personal would release them as not doing so would be as bad as killing them myself and I value life however I AM IN NO WAY PLANNING A PRISON BREAK!

on a side note my missus says "leave em there because they are there for a reason!"
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Re: would you release the animals?

Post by freenarative » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:53 pm

Biggin wrote:
freenarative wrote:I had this thought when watching a prison related drama on tv. By the way guys, please keep it sensible, no getting this blocked.

You are around a week into the zombie apocalypse and walk past a prison. The guards have up and left leaving all the corridors open as well as the front gate. they ended up dropping the keys at the gate as they left. You can hear the screaming from inside. They have water but haven't eaten in days. Do you do the humane thing and release them before they slowly starve to death, or, walk away because they are in there for a reason, or, "other option" remember some are in for non payments of fines some for speeding, some for lesser crimes along with killers etc. you don't know who's who or why they are in there though. WWYD?
So... I will try to go easy buuuuuutt........

1) They are not animals, they are people.... they might have committed crimes but they are still people

2) Breaking people out of prison, whether it be the PAW or not, is illegal

3) "other options".... care to expound on this?

I get what you are saying, I really do.... but this might not be the place to discuss it. This is kind of like the "do I steal from the pharmacy to get the cure from cancer question." It might sound right to do it, but it is still against the law and thus not for discussion in places like ZS.

Just a friendly tip, not busting your balls, but check out some more threads and maybe venture out of the WWYD stuff.
1) "animals" was a word used as a simile and was not meant as an insult or meant to dehumanise. There is a difference if you read my other post you'll see how I feel about life and people.

2) Yes breaking people out of prison is illegal but a)zombies don't exist b) the paw hasnt happened c) read this>( http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypothetical" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). Before suggesting someone is planning a criminal activity take some time to think "is this a hypothetical situation?"

3) certainly, other options include feeding them, giving the keys to an officer of the law so they can deal with the problem, ask for help for help from the militairy, etc.
Drichar Deis wrote:Sledge hammer to the forehead, night night cow ;)
Prepping; Why prep? Well just think of it as a physical form of insurance. You insure your home "just in case" it gets robbed. Why not prep "just in case" the poop hits the propeller?

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Re: would you release the inmates?

Post by basm » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:56 pm

I would most definitely release animals. It is not their fault they were placed in a cage and left to die. Even if they had to face death out there, it is better than facing it behind bars and absolutely helpless.

If you meant inmates... even if their crimes were heinous and punishable by death, they are still human beings, not animals, still someone's son or daughter, mother or father. Anything further I can't speak to except to say I would try to contact some authority and have them deal with it.

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Re: would you release the inmates?

Post by Bearcat » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:02 pm

When I read the title I thought this was gonna be about releasing the animals in zoos. This scenario is definitely trying on one's morals and ethics. Even if I did know who was who, I'm not gonna play god by choosing who lives and who dies either. Another thing to think about is everyone in the PAW is desperate. Would releasing a prison of desperate criminals with no authority to keep them in check be a good idea? Would you be safe? I'm sure some of the inmates would be gracious of your help but I'd bet some would just as well murder you and take your supplies. On the other hand, I would have a moral struggle just walking away as well. I would ask myself, is euthanasia a viable option? I'd probably say no to that as well.

ETA: Freenarative, we all know zombies don't exist and the PAW hasn't happened. However, there rules of this forum say no discussion of illegal activity hypothetical or not. An example would be someone saying that if zombies do come, they'll take the gear off dead soldiers. While that will probably never happen, it's still a discussion of looting and not tolerated on this board, real or not. I myself said something to a lesser effect when I first joined here and was warned against it. This is the reason the topic was reported in the first place and rightly so. However, the mods said it was ok, so it's no big deal. Just an honest misunderstanding.

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Re: would you release the inmates?

Post by freenarative » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:05 pm

personally I think I would try to find a law enforcement officer or some such and tell them about the situation. I would keep an eye on them but if no help came in a day or to I would release them. I value life and if people died when I could have helped them then to me that is as good as killing them myself. also, we need people to carry on the human race and according to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics American prisons and jails held 2,292,133 inmates at yearend 2009. That's 2.2 million people to help the human race continue and help kill zombies.
Drichar Deis wrote:Sledge hammer to the forehead, night night cow ;)
Prepping; Why prep? Well just think of it as a physical form of insurance. You insure your home "just in case" it gets robbed. Why not prep "just in case" the poop hits the propeller?

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Re: would you release the inmates?

Post by Stercutus » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:17 pm

I would most definitely release animals. It is not their fault they were placed in a cage and left to die. Even if they had to face death out there, it is better than facing it behind bars and absolutely helpless.
You should read Setting Free the Bears first. Good novel about unintended consequences.

Still say illegal. Everything on WWYD is hypothetical.
personally I think I would try to find a law enforcement officer or some such and tell them about the situation. I would keep an eye on them but if no help came in a day or to I would release them. I value life and if people died when I could have helped them then to me that is as good as killing them myself. also, we need people to carry on the human race and according to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics American prisons and jails held 2,292,133 inmates at yearend 2009. That's 2.2 million people to help the human race continue and help kill zombies.
Yeah, well I have spent some time with some real bad asses like serial killers, rapists, terrorists and other assorted wonderkin so I looking at it from a totally different perspective. I won't wish you luck with your plan however; you have given me something else to prepare for, thanks.
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Re: would you release the inmates?

Post by Jamie » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:41 pm

Image

Even with the new and improved wording, I think this is a classic, "Dumb if you do, damned if you don't" scenario...


You are around a week into the zombie apocalypse and walk past a prison. The guards have up and left leaving all the corridors open as well as the front gate. they ended up dropping the keys at the gate as they left. You can hear the screaming from inside. They have water but haven't eaten in days. Do you do the humane thing and release them before they slowly starve to death, or, walk away because they are in there for a reason, or, "other option" remember some are in for non payments of fines some for speeding, some for lesser crimes along with killers etc. you don't know who's who or why they are in there though. WWYD?
A week into the zombocalypse, I would still be hiding out in my home or BOL, but that aside...

a)I have a responsibility to take care of my wife and son, and beyond that my extended family and even some friends...but not random bad guys...
b)I would think that a prison would be an awesome place to expose myself to dark hallways, spooky basements, dead-end tunnels/hallways, etc...all of which could be filled with zombies waiting to eat me and preventing me from keeping my loved ones alive...
c)Prisons/prison-blocks/prison/cells are generally pretty secure places that require more than a key-ring to open; I don't know how to do it, do you?
d)Given the givens, this is a really mixed population of adjudicated citizens, how do I know that my humane act won't expose my wife and son to Charles Manson or some meth-head who wants to hollow out their skulls and wear them as boots while they roam the PAW?
e)How do you know that the proper legal authority isn't on their way to release and/or relocate the inmates to a new and better/safer facility?
f)It's illegal, and against both the laws of the land, and the rules of this forum.

I won't be going into the prison, although I will try to contact someone in authority to find out what is being done to help deal with those guys, in order to assuage my guilt about it...sadly, I'd probably do the same thing if faced with a hospital filled with nuns and orphans, or a ski-lodge filled with bikini spokes-models unable to push their way through the pull-only doors...

JMHO, YMMV

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Re: would you release the inmates?

Post by dogbane » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:48 pm

Blacksmith wrote:I won't wish you luck with your plan however; you have given me something else to prepare for, thanks.
I agree. I would probably follow Jamie's course of action, even if it were some other institution; I have to focus on protecting my own family and I don't have the resources to be the savior of hundreds of felons, mental patients, or delinquent cheerleaders. But someone might do it (I'm picturing trying to bug in and someone releases all the county jail inmates seven miles from my house) and that's one more thing to worry about besides zombies. As inhumane as it might feel, I would leave well enough alone.
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Re: would you release the inmates?

Post by freenarative » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:04 pm

This does make me think further though, what about mental institutions or secure hospitals, courts houses etc. You and I might not release the people in these places but someone else may. How do you treat the people you meet knowing that they may be escaped prisoners or mentally unstable? AARGH it's all so confusing!
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Re: would you release the inmates?

Post by Jamie » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:09 pm

freenarative wrote:This does make me think further though, what about mental institutions or secure hospitals, courts houses etc. You and I might not release the people in these places but someone else may. How do you treat the people you meet knowing that they may be escaped prisoners or mentally unstable? AARGH it's all so confusing!
Until I have evidence to the contrary, my SOP is to treat all people that I meet as though they may be escaped prisoners or mentally unstable...in a PAW, this would be 17.49 times more in effect.

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Re: would you release the inmates?

Post by basm » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:13 pm

freenarative wrote:personally I think I would try to find a law enforcement officer or some such and tell them about the situation. I would keep an eye on them but if no help came in a day or to I would release them. I value life and if people died when I could have helped them then to me that is as good as killing them myself. also, we need people to carry on the human race and according to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics American prisons and jails held 2,292,133 inmates at yearend 2009. That's 2.2 million people to help the human race continue and help kill zombies.
I guess I need to put extra plans in my preps to protect my family when you do this, then. But then, that's why we're in a discussion forum about possible disasters to prepare for. A release of 2.2 million inmates would be one of the bad ones, in my book.

Also, I hope you can explain this to all the women you think will be all good with this plan to "carry on the human race".

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Re: would you release the inmates?

Post by Stercutus » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:17 pm

Also, I hope you can explain this to all the women you think will be all good with this plan to "carry on the human race".
And the eight year old girls and boys that will be the unfortunate victims of your good deed. How will that make you feel when their dead bodies wash up on the riverbank? Will you still be confused then? Thanks a lot dude.
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Re: would you release the inmates?

Post by raptor » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:26 pm

People are not animals.

Animals normally do not engage in wonton destruction, rape, murder and other antisocial behavior. Yes there are documented instances to the contrary but I would rather deal with a lion or a chimp than a psychotic serial rapist/murderer.

Thus my assumption would be that the guards who abandoned them did so for reasons sensible to them. In other words the guards know them better than I do and wanted to get away before they escaped. Hence I would not likely hang around and ponder the ethical ramifications, but rather devote my limited resources to assist those in less ethically vexing situations.

Put another way who would you rescue convicts or children?

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Re: would you release the inmates?

Post by wamba » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:51 pm

Jamie wrote:
freenarative wrote:This does make me think further though, what about mental institutions or secure hospitals, courts houses etc. You and I might not release the people in these places but someone else may. How do you treat the people you meet knowing that they may be escaped prisoners or mentally unstable? AARGH it's all so confusing!
Until I have evidence to the contrary, my SOP is to treat all people that I meet as though they may be escaped prisoners or mentally unstable...in a PAW, this would be 17.49 times more in effect.

Jamie
Very close to the way I would have put it Jamie.

I'm sorry but there is no way in hell I'd release all the prisoners. Too big a chance that I'd be making a hellish scenario even worse. What I would do would depend on so many variables that it's almost impossible to predict. I suppose that if I didn't have a schedule or other responsibility's I might try to do a little research to separate out the truly dangerous from those that might not make things worse. In the meantime maybe I could hand out some jerky & dried fruit, staying well back from the doors of course.

Not a easy question to answer, hopefully we'll never have to learn how any of us will perform under those circumstances.
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Re: would you release the inmates?

Post by Rev » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:14 pm

I wouldn't release them.
raptor wrote:Animals normally do not engage in wonton destruction, rape, murder and other antisocial behavior.
Yes they do. All the time.

That being said they are animals while we are sentient human beings and know better. I simply could not justify releasing a prison population into an already hellish situation. From what I can gather from real world examples it's never turned out well.
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Re: would you release the inmates?

Post by Einher » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:34 pm

It's important to keep in mind, people are sent to prison for non-violent things like fraud and tax-evasion, and many of them join the general population of inmates.

It's a societal perception and a cultural problem that when people meet someone who has been to prison they immediately start thinking of a television show like 'Oz' (or any television show in general) to relate to the experience.

I have my doubts that I'd have the time or inclination to visit a prison in an emergency situation, but I've hardly ever been afraid of most people I've met that were unfortunate enough to have spent time in prison. There used to be a womens correctional facility located in the hills above where I lived, and of course, nearly all of that prison population weren't violent offenders.

In my time, I've also definitely met some people who have been in the system that I would avoid, and some seem to enjoy broadcasting the time they spent behind bars (usually for intimidation purposes).
Of course, the most worrisome things about them tended to be their overly aggressive attitude and negative behavior towards others, not that they had seen the inside of a prison (though I imagine the first two observations had something to do with the third).

In all seriousness (blue text serious of course), would you hesitate to release Wesley Snipes?

ETA: What about Martha Stewart?
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Re: would you release the inmates?

Post by Rev » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:38 pm

Einherjrar wrote:and of course, nearly all of that prison population weren't violent offenders.
Just because you're in prison for a nonviolent crime doesn't mean you haven't committed any.

If you couldn't bring yourself to follow the laws of a first world nation with all the amenities and services offered why should we think you'll be law abiding in a major disaster or worse?
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Re: would you release the inmates?

Post by dogbane » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:42 pm

Einherjrar wrote:ETA: What about Martha Stewart?
Yeah, I'd take Martha. Her cousin is Josh Bernstein, and she probably knows a few survival tricks herself.
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