Bear’s PAW scenario 7…. “On the road again… “

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Brekar
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Post by Brekar » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:18 am

I'd say try to negoiate a little more, if that fails I'd go with what others have said, take the deal and try to kill them during the night, one at a time, or if that wasn't a plasible scenerio then I'd try and maybe lure some zombies near enough to get their attention, since its likely that they'll be noisy enough to distract them from me hiding silently in the nearby bushes, waiting to strike when its to my advantage...

Whatever the case, I'd try my best to get the women back...

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Foxen
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Post by Foxen » Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:58 am

Oooh...nasty scenario Bear.

Hmmm...

This is rough...my initial thoughts were to somehow disable/destroy the bandits van, but one dread I have is to force the bandits' hand...if they start to panick, they may use them as live hostages, threatening to kill them and/or Heather raises the level of intensity.

Four (Five) on one should be a no brainer...potentially, if they've trained before, they should be able to take me out, but at least one of them has to watch the hostages. Them having automatic weapons definately changes things. I've run through mock automatic fire (paintball)...not fun and the chances I'll get nailed doesn't bode well for me.

However, even if I can get close to them...my odds for survival are slim. In a straight out face-off one on one...my odds might be okay, even if the hostile is using automatic weapons. I trust my snap firing skills...but four or even five on one (coordinated)...situation looks grim.

What I'd do is hope for Jim to be alive.... I'd also look for the other weapons we had and try to acquire the dead bandit's gun. I'd also begin anticipating an attack on me...if I were them, I'd attack. As such, I would change positions, and begin mentally (and if possibly) figuring out safe cover with decent firing lanes onto potential attack points and the van.

If these bandits are as unskilled and uncoordinated as I hoped...they taking them out might be much easier...but each encounter is a risk, a high risk. But if they are not coordinated (like the dead bandit), they I could potentially be facing them one on one, or two on one...in which case I believe I can handle.

However, it'll all come down to.......

The last few bandits using the women as human shields and hostage...

If only Jim was alive....and able to do something...

Fox

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Post by CaptainZ » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:20 pm

In this particular case I see a few possibilities.

Right now they hold all the chips. Since they used explosives already, who knows what they have. They may have sent one of their guys back to base camp to fetch more guys/explosives/supplies etc.

You could say

A) If you cant beat them, join them. No one says you have to participate in what they do, but you may be able to do an inside job and liberate the women at a later date and time.

B) Take the trade. You will live to fight another day. Its already been stated that there are possibly other working vehicles on the road. You find one, and follow the bandits.

C)You fight them with your pistol against their automatics. You die valiently and lose the women anyway. Time is against you and every minute you waste trying to think of some sneaky plan to be able to take all of them out is a waste of time. Its a fragile situation and every minute counts.

D) You bluff. You tell them that you still happen to have a couple of unbroken bottles of jack daniels and you would rather kill everyone(includeing the women) with molotovs than allow them to leave with the women.

E) You disable or threaten to disable their vehicle, and their ability to leave or transport anyone/provisions and force their hand. They may attack you, or they may come to an agreement that no one else has to die.



Obviously you dont/cant trust them. Personally I am for the "E" option. The women at this point would probably rather die than ravaged by every man in their group. They will become bartering tools and will be forced into many aweful situations. They probably understand that 1 against 5 is not good. If you threaten to disable the vehicle, the attackers may threaten to kill hostages, but thats okay because they have already done so much just to secure some women, and they are certainly not going to kill the one thing they want badly. So you tell them that unless they release all the hostages, you will destroy their vehicle.
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Post by Einstein » Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:07 pm

When's the next one coming??
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Post by nicklefish » Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:54 pm

First, I'd ask for confermation from the women that they're ok.
*If the women were ok: I'd shoot the van's mirror off (15yds with a pistol? NP.) I'd then act a fool, threatening to shoot out their tires and radiator in much the same fashion if they didn't pack up and leave us alone. Now we both have hostages. I'd try to make them think I trusted them, negotiating a deal where we would both disarm and leave. Waiting for dark, I'd get Jim back under cover, and take his weapon. I would tell them I'd disarm first, throwing Jim's weapon into the open. They will either rush me, at which point I'd fire into them with MY pistol, or they would disarm as well, at which I'd waste them anyhow. If that didn't go to plan, and one or two got away, I'd simply pop their tires, hoping to find a compatible tire in the miles of junk (assuming I survived) Now we're both trapped. After this, I'd just watch and wait patienly, looking for an opening. Might even get bold and sneak in under the cover of night.
Probably not the smartest choices, and iffy at best, but this is just me.
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Post by Digital Leviathan » Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:13 am

TDW586 wrote: They attacked you without warning with the apparent intent of kidnapping the women in your party to rape them, I don't think appeals to their morality will do much.
I'm not appealing to their morality, I'm appealing to their pity. You see, the psychology of the rape/murderer(most serial killers are these) is thus; they are able to objectify their victims.

The Soviet serial killer Chikitillo met strangers on the street. He would offer them a place to stay, then kill them and eat their... softer parts.
Ted Bundy would fake a broken arm. When a woman would help him she would get knocked out, abducted, tortured/raped, then murdered.
Richard Rameirez snuck into women's apartments that he didn't know and would rape then kill them.

To cold blooded murderers and rapists these aren't other human beings with human lives and human emotion. They are nothing but sexual objects. When you talk about these said persons, they are no longer objects and gain the soul that the rapist/murderer was been denying was there.

http://www.strike-the-root.com/4/wallace/wallace26.html
This link explains how a serial killer(or rapist/murderer) objectifies people. They have trouble feeling compassion. If you force the compassion in, then your chances that they will be left unharmed are GREATLY increased. Afterall everyone can cry and beg for their life. Even an animal will wimper and cower when it knows that it's going to die. But a dog doesn't explain it's past, talk about it's master, laugh about what it did back when the world was still sane, or talk about it's hopeful future with a family life.

But as I said, the whole story is going to be fabricated on the spot. It's not hard, "A summer a few years back... we all went to the zoo. Heather was 8 then. It was her first time at the zoo. It was a warm sunny day, you know the kind they have near Lincoln... that's where we're from, Lincoln. How about you guys? (Wait for answer.) Ah... that's a nice place, I went there on business before. But anyways, (laugh) we saw all sorts of things, I think it was a snow leopard that she liked the most there, I bought her a stuffed animal of one, one of those great big ones. She wanted to bring it with us when we ran... but we couldn't take it, we left it at home, I said we'd come back for it later... But anyways, Heather was so sunburned. Beverly felt so guilty... she held Heather the entire way home, but Heather was laughing the entire time despite the burns. We called Heather when we got back, we used Aloe on all of her face..."

See? It's easy to fabricate stories on the spot. It's doubtful they'd call BS on me since it makes sense that a "simple suburbian family like us" would travel together. Like I said, it's easy to butcher what's seen as a chicken, it's a lot harder to torture and butcher a human being.

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Post by BloodLust » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:11 am

DL: You have a point there. And you did cite some examples.

Though everyone has a point here too. We really don't know how the scenario will go in real life. A lot of variables to consider.

Great scenarios Bear! :D Keeps us thinking and on our toes. Teaches us not to be complacent with our p[lans and current mindset, because anything can happen. Good example of Murphy's Law.
Erik wrote:First of all, I doubt your body is a weapon and if you threatened me with your body, I'd pull out a real weapon and see which is more effective.
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Post by TheShadow324 » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:14 pm

I would take the deal, what other option do you have? You're out manned, out gunned, and under pressure. Then again you couldn't just let them drive off with the only woman left that you're falling for, so grab those supplies that fell out of your truck, get the girl and your buddy Jim and drag everything to the best looking car on that road and hope it runs. Start following that van, it wont be too hard, it's the only vehicle moving on the road other than yours. If you fail in your rescue attmept it's probably no worse for Beverly than if you didn't try to get her at all, and could you really live with yourself knowing you let the one person left for you die?
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Post by Markedcards00 » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:53 pm

I donno if this would actually work, but I'd give it everything I had.

I'd try to get them to send the nurse over instead. She could try to patch Jim up.

If they agree, wave her over & grab the dead raider's rifle discreetly. Wiat for them to get out of cover, then cap the middle guy. Just like airsoft... you break off the middle of a 5-man group & you have 2 2-man groups that are running in opposite directions.

After killing the middle raider, I toss a gas can at their vehicle & bust it with the pistol. If it doesn't explode, I shoot the ground by it at an angle. that should create some sparks.

Move up from my cover, kill the 2 raiders heading for the vehicle (the ones that were closest) & duck back down. Chuck the other gas tank at the remaining raiders (unless the other 2 from our group are nearby). Take their vehicle if it'll run at all. We try to save Jim with whatever we might have left.
AEnemia wrote:The problem with that is, people will put the spin on it that it shouldn't be necesarry in the first place to have a release valve. What those people fail to realize is that humans are animals, like everything else. OF COURSE WE NEED A RELEASE VALVE.
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Post by clybourn » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:49 pm

Digital Leviathan wrote:
TDW586 wrote: They attacked you without warning with the apparent intent of kidnapping the women in your party to rape them, I don't think appeals to their morality will do much.
I'm not appealing to their morality, I'm appealing to their pity. You see, the psychology of the rape/murderer(most serial killers are these) is thus; they are able to objectify their victims.

The Soviet serial killer Chikitillo met strangers on the street. He would offer them a place to stay, then kill them and eat their... softer parts.
Ted Bundy would fake a broken arm. When a woman would help him she would get knocked out, abducted, tortured/raped, then murdered.
Richard Rameirez snuck into women's apartments that he didn't know and would rape then kill them.

To cold blooded murderers and rapists these aren't other human beings with human lives and human emotion. They are nothing but sexual objects. When you talk about these said persons, they are no longer objects and gain the soul that the rapist/murderer was been denying was there.

http://www.strike-the-root.com/4/wallace/wallace26.html
This link explains how a serial killer(or rapist/murderer) objectifies people. They have trouble feeling compassion. If you force the compassion in, then your chances that they will be left unharmed are GREATLY increased. Afterall everyone can cry and beg for their life. Even an animal will wimper and cower when it knows that it's going to die. But a dog doesn't explain it's past, talk about it's master, laugh about what it did back when the world was still sane, or talk about it's hopeful future with a family life.

But as I said, the whole story is going to be fabricated on the spot. It's not hard, "A summer a few years back... we all went to the zoo. Heather was 8 then. It was her first time at the zoo. It was a warm sunny day, you know the kind they have near Lincoln... that's where we're from, Lincoln. How about you guys? (Wait for answer.) Ah... that's a nice place, I went there on business before. But anyways, (laugh) we saw all sorts of things, I think it was a snow leopard that she liked the most there, I bought her a stuffed animal of one, one of those great big ones. She wanted to bring it with us when we ran... but we couldn't take it, we left it at home, I said we'd come back for it later... But anyways, Heather was so sunburned. Beverly felt so guilty... she held Heather the entire way home, but Heather was laughing the entire time despite the burns. We called Heather when we got back, we used Aloe on all of her face..."

See? It's easy to fabricate stories on the spot. It's doubtful they'd call BS on me since it makes sense that a "simple suburbian family like us" would travel together. Like I said, it's easy to butcher what's seen as a chicken, it's a lot harder to torture and butcher a human being.

Nice points but you're comparing lone sociopaths against a group under the influence of mob mentality. They've already probably killed one of your crew and possess your hot chicks. Stories of aloe will unlikely work.

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Post by spartan » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:18 am

I hate to be an evil bastard, but I would take the deal.

I have a pistol, a blown out vehicle, and a probably dead friend. They have the women, the girl, and automatic weapons. I know that I do not have the training, tactics, or faith in my lone handgun to win out in this situation.

Not taking the deal leaves me more than likely dead, the girl killed because she is of little to no use to them, and the women drug off.

With the deal, I can at least save the life of the girl and my own. I also have a possiblities of: saving the women at a later date, that they will be let go, or perhaps make their own way free.

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Post by Bender711 » Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:46 pm

man i wish i brought some flash bangs with me.
ok lets see, i guess i would take the rifle frome the dead BG and that might help. do you know how many BG's there are?
take the deal, thats your only option other than bluffing, and saying you have a grenade and will kill them all including the women.
at night oyu could sneak out pour gas every where and wait for them to come out and them BAM bag guy bar-b-q.
lol this is a tough one.

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Post by Bear_B » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:00 am

:shock:
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Post by Timmy » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:51 am

Maybe Jim's wounds aren't fatal, and he's well enough to sit back with the rifle from the dead bandit and use that hunter's eye to deadly effect.. after you take the deal and follow them. A concerted attack on the bandits at a later date with the element of surprise, Jim's help, and maybe a little support from the damsels in distress might win the day.

If it were Hollywood, anyway, it'd work like a charm.
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Bear_B
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Post by Bear_B » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:48 pm

Heh, worked out a wee bit differently in the book.
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