When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by spacetyrant » Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:40 pm

A poorly planned raid results in dead pets and emotional trauma for a family.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What you would you have done in their situation?

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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by Hobbes » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:03 pm

Skip to the end of page two, unless you like reading articles where dogs are personified as children.

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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by Shadowsbane » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:46 pm

spacetyrant wrote:A poorly planned raid results in dead pets and emotional trauma for a family.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What you would you have done in their situation?

Realilistically speaking? Die.
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by crypto » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:50 pm

I would have to hope that their overwhelming violence of action did what it was supposed to do, and leave me stunned and unable to react to the threat.

Because that would probably go a lot better for me than if I had time to react to a home invasion.
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by Zoltan » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:13 pm

Ok, I'm all for cracking down hard oin drugs in our country, and I mean super hard, like death for drug dealers, but that shit is ridiculous!! They didn't have a no-knock warrant and one of the dogs was shot running away from the officers.

Hell, they didn't even have the warrant opn them when they came to the fucking house??!! Hell no!! And what's with not notifying the Chief of Police in the city you decide to operate in??!! Damn!!
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by Phoenix David » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:19 pm

I like the Police, they would be the first people I'd call if in trouble.

In this case I'd have done whatever the SWAT team said to do and asked for a lawyer.

That being said they should sue the living shit out of that police department.

I will stop here my anger gets aroused when people acting under the color of authority fuck things up so bad it makes the US look like a 3rd World Police state

Law enforcement has to be 100% right all the time and thats a very hard standard to live up to because when they are wrong people die. Then there are the people that have the luxury of going over their actions after the fact with all the information that they maybe did not have at the time and all the time in the world to armchair quarterback it.
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by Zoltan » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:24 pm

Yeah, their mom was in the kitchen cooking. What if she had a knife in her hand and was to terrified to drop it and they shot her over nothing??!! That would be ridiculous!!!!
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by Packin' Heat » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:25 pm

I didn't read the article but its something I have thought about. Especially since here in ATL the latest thing for home invaders to do is scream "POLICE" as they burst in. I guess it buys them time to overtake the owners without getting shot.

I know that I'm not doing anything wrong. So what is an innocent person to do? if the door bursts open do I shoot first, do I wait and see? it seems every option will end up with me getting shot by somebody.

the best I could come up with is try to barricade myself until I can verify, but there is no guarantee that I can get to my "safe room" in time. I would think that if a person is barricaded in a room, real SWAT wouldn't just burst in that room, and a bad guy would.
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by Phoenix David » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:31 pm

Zoltan wrote:Yeah, their mom was in the kitchen cooking. What if she had a knife in her hand and was to terrified to drop it and they shot her over nothing??!! That would be ridiculous!!!!
I doubt that it would have been the first time nor will it be the last. It will take a massacre of a few families before the laws and policies change or get rid of this stupid war on drugs.

You want to have a war on drugs go bomb the people making the stuff, blow up the boats carrying it, shoot down the airplanes transporting it.

I don't have all the answers and don't pretend to, but I don't think the current way is working to well
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by Molon Labe » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:31 pm

Warrant not present during time of raid? Check

Chief not even aware of raid? Check

Normal search warrant, illegaly handled like a no-knock? Check

Scared pets, fleeing from the police being needlessly slaughtered? Check

The lives of several people being brought into harm's way, without provocation? Check


Oh yeah, the systems not broken at all. Nope. Watch how they get away with it too. Just like the Maricopa County Sherrif did, with several, terribly mishandled, raids.
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by vyadmirer » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:45 pm

Am I the only one thinking.......If I was the mayor upstairs and I hear gunshots, my mother-in-law screaming and dogs barking that I'm coming downstairs with guns blazing? I mean, especially if I have no idea that it's police, (because why would police be raiding my house?)

I probably would have come down the stairs armed to the teeth and probably would have been shot or I would have shot an officer. I'm saying that the confusion there is a potential for a huge disaster. (I dont want it to sound like I advocate ANY violence towards leo's no matter what circumstances, but that is a confusing situation!) Shouldn't they be SCREAMING police as they bust through the door?

Someone FUBAR'd this one big time and heads should roll.
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by raptor » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:11 pm

The detectives were idiots and careless. They did not even know anything about the people in the house. Not exactly good detective work.

Nevertheless if they had a lawful warrant I would have complied with the search and demanded to speak to my attorney and once the facts were known I would make the people responsible my new hobby.

The police have a tough and thankless job, I am glad they do their job. But they also have to follow the law and cannot act recklessly and negligently.

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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by Shadowsbane » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:24 pm

vyadmirer wrote:Am I the only one thinking.......If I was the mayor upstairs and I hear gunshots, my mother-in-law screaming and dogs barking that I'm coming downstairs with guns blazing? I mean, especially if I have no idea that it's police, (because why would police be raiding my house?)

I probably would have come down the stairs armed to the teeth and probably would have been shot or I would have shot an officer. I'm saying that the confusion there is a potential for a huge disaster. (I dont want it to sound like I advocate ANY violence towards leo's no matter what circumstances, but that is a confusing situation!) Shouldn't they be SCREAMING police as they bust through the door?

Someone FUBAR'd this one big time and heads should roll.
From the sound of the article it would appear that the Mayor did not own any firearms. If he did they would of confiscated them in the raid.

Had he been armed they would of most likely taken him out of that house in a bag.
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by airballrad » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:33 pm

raptor wrote:Nevertheless if they had a lawful warrant I would have complied with the search and demanded to speak to my attorney and once the facts were known I would make the people responsible my new hobby.
In this case they didn't even have a copy of the warrant present. They did not give a copy to the mayor until days later. As you can imagine, this caused quite a stir in MD when it happened. This article just has more details than were available at the time. Unfortunately, the PG County police have a reputation for asshattery that they seem to justify again every few years. They were in trouble not too long ago for overusing their dogs on suspects that were complying with orders.

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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by Abacus » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:47 pm

Ohhh I hate seeing things like this.

I hate no-knocks, they have such minimal good for the hazard they offer.

I realize the notion is to keep officers safe...and I could care less, since the flip side is endangering citizens. Officers aren't supposed to be safe, if you want to be safe, get a different job. The well being of a servant can never be more important than that of those he serves.

I have nightmares over this sort of thing, because there is no possible good that can come from it.
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by Zoltan » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:28 pm

So, I was thinking of moving to Waldorf, MD for a job. Guess I'm getting anit-no-knock doors out on my house! Full-core steel doors and double dead-bolts and them all!!
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by bonanacrom » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:18 pm

I just hope that if anything like this ever happens at my place they call out very loudly that its the cops. I'm in the basement and the front door is only a hardwood floor away from my .762 and me. The front door gets smashed in and I don't hear police I think a round or two coming through the floor might slow things down a little bit.
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by DaveJohns » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:45 pm

I read about this story a while back, re-reading it has made me just as mad as I was the first time I read about it. I hate that their pets, their friends, their children were slaughtered. I hate the botched process, but I hate most the fact that the para's didnt even bother to identify themselves.

FOR THE RECORD, (yes, this is for anyone in LE who is reading this) if my home is invaded by people with guns, and I dont hear or identify them as police, I will defend myself. I am sure I will be on the 5 oclock news, but thats the way it is. Home invasions happen more and more frequently, thats the biggest reason I got my permit to legally carry a firearm. Thats the reason I have upgraded the deadbolts, and am replacing my exterior doors one by one. Thats the reason I practice at the range, and have taken a NRA safety course. If a couple of goons dressed in CTD black come thru my door with guns, ESPECIALLY guns blazing, i will expect that my life is in danger from criminals, and will return fire.

This is tragic.
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by thefirebuilds » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:56 pm

Zoltan wrote:Yeah, their mom was in the kitchen cooking. What if she had a knife in her hand and was to terrified to drop it and they shot her over nothing??!! That would be ridiculous!!!!
What if they invaded my home where I am carrying a pistol on an open holster at most times? especially if someone warned me there were people in the yard. Not to mention my dogs would have reacted at least as much as these did. UGH.
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by thefirebuilds » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:59 pm

whoah wait a minute, this guy is the fucking mayor? WTF did he piss off? and how do the cops not know where the mayor lives??

I don't understand why the dogs are neutralized if they aren't a threat? My dogs are a threat, I assumed they were acting in earnest and protecting the house, but shot dead lazily laying on the floor? I don't get this shit at all.
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by gelgoog » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:09 pm

Anyone who comes bursting through my door is gonna get a belly full of lead ( if I have time to grab my rifle). If you have no reason to be fearing police, then you shouldnt fear shooting whoever busts through your door. If they get shot, its their own fault.

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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by thechin » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:04 am

Tel0004 wrote:I agree with most others. If they don't announce themselves as police, I'm going down the steps with my mossberg, and there is no way that is ending well for anybody involved.

If I knew they are police, I would comply, then sue the crap out of them.
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Re: When SWAT Comes Knocking...

Post by Tactical Raccoon » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:09 am

Police are scared of dogs, face the facts. Their adrenaline is flowing and they are not trained as well as most military outfits, even third world military outfits, to know how to handle many situations. This results in collateral damage.
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