Home Invasion or RAID?

[GhostlyKarliion]

wayyyyy to touchy a topic for ZS, however, situation as it is they aren't following procedure and therefore I would assume they are perps. now I am in the bathroom, without any backup, without any help whatsoever, aside from jumping out a window that is half my size I don't have much of an option here.

[Feuerlied]

I would run to the phone and dial 911. If I had time before they kicked in the door I'd say that men dressed in cop costumes are breaking into my house. I'd throw the phone under something so that the line is left open to possibly hear some of the going-ons. I'd open the door then drop to the floor with my hands on my head.

That's all I can think to do. It doesn't matter if they're real cops or not; if I resist then I'm dead. But now, if they aren't real cops and tie me up in the basement or something, then real cops will be on their way soon.

[brer]

I am not a cop basher. Nor do I advocate shooting police. No knock warrants are a bad thing IMHO, they confuse a homeowner about who is a home invader and who is a lawful authority.

The people that sit on juries in my region have a dim view of no knock warrants. Te last big fuss out here over it ended up with two hung juries and finally had to be taken out of the area and tried in federal court over a man shooting an officer during a no knock raid. The only reason he lost was because he was not a good poster child for home defense, he was cooking at the time.

If they get past my pit bull who is very defensive of his home without waking me up they might have a chance.

If they identify themselves prior to entry and provide the warrant, no issues. We will hammer everything out in court later.

If they override common law and try to do a no knock entry, I will use the natural rights assigned to me and defend my home as I would any home invader unless they provide valid ID prior to entry or I can determine that they are police before that.

[Molon Labe]

I would (hopefully) run to the kids room and simply grab them by their shirts or arms,(no time for politeness) run/drag them to the master bedroom and lock the door. Un-hook the phone and dial 911 and just leave the phone of the hook (dispatch would hear what's gonna ensue anyways.) Grab the carbine from the closet and slap the one pre-filled mag in the well. The wife would by then be freaking, so I'd have her on the floor on the opposite side of the room and out of direct line of fire of the door. All this should take no more than 45 sec. in perfect conditions. (Can't factor in the what ifs due to how numerous they are.)

These would obviously be perps. S.W.A.T. does not assualt in mis-matched uniforms, and yes, that does include the armor. Then I take into consideration that some are approaching the house with pistols drawn. You don't perform an assault with only a side arm, this isn't 'Equilibrium'.
They're also heading straight from the street and to the door. S.W.A.T. doesn't simply run at your place of residence in some bravado driven, football charge. Tactics like that would produce an unacceptable casualty count, on both sides. If this was an all out assault in suburbia, then before you even knew what was goin' on, the first floor would be rapidly filling up with CS gas right after you heard the window break.

Just my $.02

[bcc423]

"Submit, I doubt a gang would be this organized"

the police are a gang violent criminals

EDIT: criminals was the wrong word, because they are immune to the law, maybe the word Thugs would be more appropriate.

[Darksword]

I don't have any patience for the "no-knock warrant" nonsense. If someone kicks in my door before providing a legal warrant to me first I'm going to assume they're a threat and act accordingly.

I'm about as law-abiding a citizen as you'll find anywhere, which means I have no reason not to cooperate with police. All they have to do is knock and tell me they have a warrant and the door's open. There's nothing to hide in my home, and one glance at my non-existent criminal record and CCW permit should tell them that.

The armor and nightvision goggles go on and I come out with battle rifle blazing. If they really are police, I'd hope for some kind of mexican standoff after the initial volley where they prove that they're really police and I chastise them for being idiots and kicking in a man's door without warning, and we work something out.

If not, I guess it'd be up to luck. I don't think too many gangbangers would expect to break into a house quite as heavily armed as mine so they might well turn and run. If not, I guess I'd just hope I took a few with me and that my cat found a good home.

[Beowolf1911]

I don't have any patience for the "no-knock warrant" nonsense. If someone kicks in my door before providing a legal warrant to me first I'm going to assume they're a threat and act accordingly.

I'm about as law-abiding a citizen as you'll find anywhere, which means I have no reason not to cooperate with police. All they have to do is knock and tell me they have a warrant and the door's open. There's nothing to hide in my home, and one glance at my non-existent criminal record and CCW permit should tell them that.

The armor and nightvision goggles go on and I come out with battle rifle blazing. If they really are police, I'd hope for some kind of mexican standoff after the initial volley where they prove that they're really police and I chastise them for being idiots and kicking in a man's door without warning, and we work something out.

If not, I guess it'd be up to luck. I don't think too many gangbangers would expect to break into a house quite as heavily armed as mine so they might well turn and run. If not, I guess I'd just hope I took a few with me and that my cat found a good home.

Lighten up, Francis, if they Kick in your door do you really think you will have time to strap on your armor and goggles? Look at this from this angle, if you are robbed on the street and at a disadvantage are you going to reach for your gun knowing you have about a 10% of coming out of that situation unscathed? Or are you going to hand over your wallet and know you will wake up tomorrow? Evaluate the situation before you react cops or thugs if they have you tha tout gunned you are better off getting out of the situation or going with them to get them out of the situation. Now if two guys kick in your door the odds are more in your favor and I would fight but even with the home field advantage you have verry little hope of coming out of that alive , self defence is to ensure your survival, not to punish those who harm you.

[Darksword]

I'd appreciate if you lost some of the attitude. No offense, but you came off as rude with the whole "francis" crack.

if you are robbed on the street and at a disadvantage are you going to reach for your gun knowing you have about a 10% of coming out of that situation unscathed? Or are you going to hand over your wallet and know you will wake up tomorrow?

I don't carry a .45 for decoration. If the robber was armed and threatening me, I'd pull it and I'd open fire. That's what it's for. You'd also be surprised how good your odds really are in a situation like that. The first person on the draw almost invariably wins. You can pull your pistol and shoot faster than his brain can react to you and send the signal to his fingers to pull the trigger, even if his gun is already pointed right at you. This was a fun fact that the retired Sergeant who taught my CCW class made us practice.

As for the raid/crooks angle again, you don't know what my house looks like. I'd no they were coming, and I have plenty of equipment within easy reach. And so does my room mate across the hall. I decline to go into more detail than that.

And yes, it's a touchy subject. But it's one that's been popping up in the news more and more lately. Just the other day I read about another botched DEA raid where they didn't announce themselves, it was the wrong address, and the homeowner opened fire. He was wounded, a DEA officer was shot in the neck, and the family dog was killed. No-knock warrants are a big, big problem.

[Beowolf1911]

I'd appreciate if you lost some of the attitude. No offense, but you came off as rude with the whole "francis" crack.

if you are robbed on the street and at a disadvantage are you going to reach for your gun knowing you have about a 10% of coming out of that situation unscathed? Or are you going to hand over your wallet and know you will wake up tomorrow?

I don't carry a .45 for decoration. If the robber was armed and threatening me, I'd pull it and I'd open fire. That's what it's for. You'd also be surprised how good your odds really are in a situation like that. The first person on the draw almost invariably wins. You can pull your pistol and shoot faster than his brain can react to you and send the signal to his fingers to pull the trigger, even if his gun is already pointed right at you. This was a fun fact that the retired Sergeant who taught my CCW class made us practice.

As for the raid/crooks angle again, you don't know what my house looks like. I'd no they were coming, and I have plenty of equipment within easy reach. And so does my room mate across the hall. I decline to go into more detail than that.

And yes, it's a touchy subject. But it's one that's been popping up in the news more and more lately. Just the other day I read about another botched DEA raid where they didn't announce themselves, it was the wrong address, and the homeowner opened fire. He was wounded, a DEA officer was shot in the neck, and the family dog was killed. No-knock warrants are a big, big problem.

I am not arguing that no knock warents are wrong, I am just saying in the situation grabing a gun at the first hint of trouble it most likely going to get you killed. I have a friend in philly who was a target of a no knock warrent and no one was hurt because he knew he had little to no chance to propertly arm hiimself, cops came it saw a nice middle income family in their beds and paid to replace everything they broke, no one got shot because cooler heads prevailed, I don't know you so I can't by any means know what you are likely to do, but 90% of all conflicts can be ended before you draw a gun, Pick up a book by the polite society they have some great drills.

[Slugg]

Hide and call 911. If they don't know your there they won't shoot you. If you call the cops and they say, "know we aren't raiding your house" Then thats a good give away to send an officer or 7.

[Yugosaki]

Hide and call 911. If they don't know your there they won't shoot you. If you call the cops and they say, "know we aren't raiding your house" Then thats a good give away to send an officer or 7.

Agreed. run to a safe room and call.

If, however, I could not retreat (i.e. they busted in my front door when I was right there) or there was someone else in the house unsecured, I would surrender. Even if they are not cops, I can't take on a armed team of 5 or more guys, possibly in body armor. The first words out of my mouth would be "let me see your warrant" regardless if they are there lawfully or not, police or not, my stuff is not worth being shot over. Besides, the chances of being robbed by a gang like that are very slim, so if they came in dressed like a SWAT team, I'm gonna assume they are a SWAT team.

If they knock on my door, then I'll be asking for a warrant, and I'll be on the phone with 911 as well, NEVER let an armed stranger into your house without verifying he (or she) is in fact, a LEO.

[kiwilrdg]

If it makes people who do not like the idea of Knock and enter search warrants feel any better LEOs are not too fond of doing them either. They are very dangerous and are only asked for when there is more danger from giving the person time to prepare because you know he will attack.

I would much rather have the time to explain the warrant and conduct a friendly investigation until I find the evidence and the criminal puts his hands out for me to cuff him and smiles as he askes me how I knew it was him...That scenario is even too far-fetched for a TV show.

[Wolfdude87]

I can't believe how many people said they'd fight. I've both been robbed at gun point and seen a swat team breach an apartment just like that. "SEARCH WARRANT" and boom, door goes down, swat rushes in multiple entrances and everyone's on the ground with a gun pointed at them in seconds. If you think you're going to A) get to your gun if it's not in your hand or B) be able to use that gun or C) live to see another day if you do, then you have another thing coming.

[kiwilrdg]

I can't believe how many people said they'd fight. I've both been robbed at gun point and seen a swat team breach an apartment just like that. "SEARCH WARRANT" and boom, door goes down, swat rushes in multiple entrances and everyone's on the ground with a gun pointed at them in seconds. If you think you're going to A) get to your gun if it's not in your hand or B) be able to use that gun or C) live to see another day if you do, then you have another thing coming.

Well said. I think most posters have too much internet bravado. I know there are many scenarios that will kill me no matter what I do so I get ready for the ones I can and try to avoid the ones that would kill me. I hope I can think my way out of the situations rather than shoot my way out.

[Phoenix David]

Would let them do their thing and then if they were cops would try to sue the living piss out of them.

[MosinMe]

Touchy subject.

Wjere I live it would probably be a home invasion. Since I keep a handgun in my room I would grab it and hide while calling 911 as fast as possible.

I would only engage if my room was entered.

[Caenus]

Funny, I was attacked pretty hard on the boards with this topic when I posted it 5 years ago. Seems like BG's have been using this tactic more frequently.

[Rev]

Funny, I was attacked pretty hard on the boards with this topic when I posted it 5 years ago. Seems like BG's have been using this tactic more frequently.

It's an almost no win situation.

[Caenus]

...so is a zombie apocalypse.







Just saying'.

[Kutter_0311]

Funny, I was attacked pretty hard on the boards with this topic when I posted it 5 years ago. Seems like BG's have been using this tactic more frequently.

It's an almost no win situation.

It is first most important to assess your attacker.

If you were caught by surprise by a professional group of men in uniforms utilizing proper equipment, sue these cops later.

If something looks a bit 'gangsta,' open fire. Pros wear uniforms for a reason.

If in doubt, stand calmly in the center of the room and yell, "U.S. MARINES! DROP YOUR WEAPONS OR MY MEN WILL OPEN FIRE!" This should confuse the fuck out of them!

As an actual Marine, I'd say that from behind cover after dropping the first couple guys in the door and stalling their initiative. I put my money on my own violence of action overcoming theirs, even if I only have 15rds of .40 to stall them with. Chances are, I'm near my rifle anyway.

[Tater Raider]

Indubitably, my good sir and/or madam. to taking on 5-6 armed guys who are already in your house before you really know what's going on being a noisy way to commit suicide...

You should either lay down on the floor with your hand empty and in plain sight (on the assumption that the LEOs just got the wrong address or some such)...

or...

You should jump out of the bathroom window, and watch what happens from your neighbor's house while calling 911 to confirm the raid...

I would go with option #1 because I'd have my son in the house, and am not going to leave him...

nfa

I'd go option 2 in most cases due to living alone, but those are your options.

[Captain_Obvious]

No knock warrants are necessary in certain situations. If you knock before serving a drug warrant, then don't bother getting the warrant. They will flush the dope. If there is no reasonable concern of evidence being destroyed, then a no knock isnt necessary. Everybody loves to hate the Po-lice.

Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk

[Tater Raider]

No knock warrants are necessary in certain situations. If you knock before serving a drug warrant, then don't bother getting the warrant. They will flush the dope. If there is no reasonable concern of evidence being destroyed, then a no knock isnt necessary. Everybody loves to hate the Po-lice.

Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk

And people have died on no-knock warrants because they think they are being invaded while others have impersonated serving a no-knock warrant to loot a home, just so all bases are covered. Let's not go there and stick to the scenario.

[Kutter_0311]

No knock warrants are necessary in certain situations. If you knock before serving a drug warrant, then don't bother getting the warrant. They will flush the dope. If there is no reasonable concern of evidence being destroyed, then a no knock isnt necessary. Everybody loves to hate the Po-lice.

And people have died on no-knock warrants because they think they are being invaded while others have impersonated serving a no-knock warrant to loot a home, just so all bases are covered. Let's not go there and stick to the scenario.

This is why assessment is so important. Also why it's so important for police to look like police. I shudder every time I see a warrant served by police that are not in propper uniform, whether it's on Cops or some fictional show.