Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by BullOnParade » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:55 am

I made a post a while back about a piece of land my wife and I bought a little over a year ago. Our end goal is to build a small cabin, however my wife is pregnant and things keep getting pushed back financially.

The land is on Manitoulin island, the world's largest freshwater island, located at the mouth of lake Huron, east of the north eastern shores of Michigan. The island houses over 100 in land lakes, some of those big enough for their own islands. There is a single land crossing, a single lane swing bridge on the east side of the island. There's a ferry dock off the south side of the island operating about seven months of the year. The islands year round population is just over 13,000 and I've been told over 15,000 white tail deer within 1,068 square miles.

All these made for an appealing hunt camp and bug out location. However in light of this CoVid-ZPAW-dry-run ... A challenge I had previously thought about has reared its head and is now a modest concern.

My wife and I follow a couple of Facebook groups which share tons of information (and some gossip) about what is happening on the island. Lately, the very rural community has succumbed to the panic of CoVid and the idea that inter-province travel will be the downfall of their quiet way of life ...

My wife took some screen shots around 4 this morning.
https://i.imgur.com/nDRP1px.jpg[/img]]

But not just one post, three separate posts (one with comments) in the early morning.
https://i.imgur.com/ZGQO5au.jpg[/img]]
https://i.imgur.com/sPbgJGD.jpg[/img]]

And lastly,
https://i.imgur.com/kZwVPo7.jpg[/img]]

By 9 this morning, the page moderator had deleted the posts and made a blanket statement disowning this sort of behaviour. Obviously by the one commenter (blue) it's not a sentiment shared by the entire populace, but concerning enough from an outsider.

We've always felt secure and welcome when we are up working on the property. The guys at the local hardware store are eager to chat and offer opinions, and tourism is a huge industry for the island, so most people we interact with are kind and generous. But short of moving to the island full time, we will always be outsiders.

Short of taking a boat to the island in a bug out scenario, the swing bridge I liked to keep me safe in a ZPAW may be keeping me out. Thoughts?
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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by flybynight » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:14 am

How many full time residents on the Island ? I looked at a map and don't see much in the way of towns to speak of. I'm thinking the posts are keyboard warriors
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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by BullOnParade » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:29 am

13,000 who register that as their full time residence. How many of those are snow birds who winter in southern US? No idea. There are a handful of towns with "city centers" around 1000 people. The rest of the population is pretty spread out.

However it's a fairly close knit community, and it's definitely locals who run the bridge. I do not know who owns the bridge, or who would be in charge of deciding to stop it from running. Or who would be over run in the coupe of that system.
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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:41 am

Reminds me of that South Park episode years ago about Hawaii... Where all the people who lived there for like 5 years call themselves native Hawaiians and hate all the new transplants. Hilarious and true.

One thing about this virus.... Especially on Facebook... Is it's bringing out the worst in people. So I understand the sentiment of being wary of strangers, and hating how people may threaten the local's safety. But realistically, there are locals being idiots too, running around and licking door knobs.

My final thought about this, is I'm a new transplant to Alaska. Most Alaskans love new people because most Alaskans came from some where else. But... There are a few ass hats who think "everyone needs to get out of MY STATE!!". When I encounter them, I honestly mock them. I do my fake gruff redneck voice "get off my lawn, we don't like you dang fangled outsiders here, I'm a real Alaskan you silly city slickers". Or something like that.

Normally, trying to argue with people like that is futile. But mocking and turning them into a hyperbolic satire can work.
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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by CrossCut » Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:39 pm

Living full time in a semi-remote resort area I can see the dilemma from both sides. There's a fair number of 2nd homes and cottages nearby us, many more than full time homes, and the local economy is largely based on tourism which is now (and maybe for the foreseeable future) defunct. Currently many of the cottages are unocupied, which is not uncommon for this time of year but I did kind of expect some to have bugged out of the city/burbs to their remote homes by now. Unoccupied homes, with food, fuel, tools, and expensive toys, and a growing number of locals that are out of work and struggling financially is going to lead to theft and burglaries I fear. We have a guest house about an 1/8 mile away, unoccupied at the moment as well, that could be a target too.

So on one hand, I wish there were a few more neighbors around since just their presence would deter crime. On the other hand, if they aren't prepared then they're just a strain on already limited resources for the county as well as potentially bringing the disease with them from more populated areas.

One thing I'm sure you already considered Bull is to bring your deed and maybe tax records (if applicable) for the property, I'd be leery of "campers" too but property owners are different imo.

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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by Stercutus » Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:03 pm

One thing about this virus.... Especially on Facebook... Is it's bringing out the worst in people. So I understand the sentiment of being wary of strangers, and hating how people may threaten the local's safety.
I don't do Facebook but; I haven't noticed this. Call volume has dropped way off except for domestics, which always increase when people are trapped with their "loved ones" in the same house for days on end.

One of the smaller houses that borders my property is a "vacation home" for a family that normally lives in Nashville. This is hilarious because there is nothing here to do and they have no family in the area. Thursday the family showed up from Nashville unloading boxes, suitcases and sacks of groceries. They look like they are in it for the long haul. Nobody bothers them and they don't bother anyone. From my perspective I have to respect them for having a plan and then executing it when they felt the time was right.

Being an outsider doesn't mean that you are not welcome in a small community. Everyone in a community actually doesn't think the same and suggesting that is so comes from a place of ignorance. But if you don't go to worship locally, belong to and participate in any civic organizations, have family in the area or make an effort to become part of the community you will always be an outsider. Being an outsider doesn't mean much really if you are just there to camp out during the PAW.
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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by quazi » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:49 pm

In related events, there's a lady I know who has lived in my town for decades with her family. They own a house here. When she and her husband both retired, they started snowbirding down to Texas for the winters. Yesterday she was on Facebook livid because someone apparently told her that she would be putting the whole community in danger by coming back in April and she was being admonished to stay in he home for two weeks if she did come back (which she planned to do anyway).

I was speaking with a neighbor in the post office today. She has lived here for decades, is a home owner and raised her family here. Her son has been working at a mine in Australia on a work visa. Apparently things have been shut down (I'm not sure if it was the virus or the fires or something else) and he was told he had to leave the country. She was mad because some people accused her of endangering the community.

I bring these up because even if you become well established and have a house there is always the potential that some jackasses are going to start telling you that you can't come there or making demands before they think you should be allowed into your own home. Thankfully in my town I think it's just a few dumbasses who don't have any power, not the large majority. Hopefully it's the same on your island. The worse things get the more nutters there will be.
CrossCut wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:39 pm
One thing I'm sure you already considered Bull is to bring your deed and maybe tax records (if applicable) for the property, I'd be leery of "campers" too but property owners are different imo.
I interpreted "campers" in those screen shots to include people who owned property but weren't full-time residents, but I guess there's more than one way to read it.

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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by MPMalloy » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:04 am

CrossCut wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:39 pm
One thing I'm sure you already considered Bull is to bring your deed and maybe tax records (if applicable) for the property, I'd be leery of "campers" too but property owners are different imo.
Bull: You are the owner of the property, and can do, or not, with your property, as you see fit. None of this should be construed as any sort of "license' to be jerkish.

meebee I've had too much caffeine already. :?

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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by BullOnParade » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:38 am

quazi wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:49 pm
CrossCut wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:39 pm
One thing I'm sure you already considered Bull is to bring your deed and maybe tax records (if applicable) for the property, I'd be leery of "campers" too but pr8ii>operty owners are different imo.
I interpreted "campers" in those screen shots to include people who owned property but weren't full-time residents, but I guess there's more than one way to read it.
With the deer population exceeding the human population, hunt camps are very common on the island. "Going to camp" would likely refer to hunt camps in general, many of those hunt camps being nicer than any house I've ever lived in. Many have been left empty since the end of deer season (end of the year for now), and should be checked for typical damage one would expect after a northern Ontario winter.
MPMalloy wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:04 am
CrossCut wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:39 pm
One thing I'm sure you already considered Bull is to bring your deed and maybe tax records (if applicable) for the property, I'd be leery of "campers" too but property owners are different imo.
Bull: You are the owner of the property, and can do, or not, with your property, as you see fit. None of this should be construed as any sort of "license' to be jerkish.

meebee I've had too much caffeine already. :?
I think the same way, and I'm not going to be kept away by some grumblings on the internet. But like I said, as a dry run for TEOTWAWKI, anything more severe than this could end in the locals changing the way the swing bridge operates.

I'm not going to be going to the property before early summer. We only have an outbuilding for storage of some tools, and everything was stored in a way that we know should survive the shed being destroyed by mother nature.
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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by BullOnParade » Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:04 pm

Retroactive update on my current situation, the author of the posts in red had another post from Monday my wife missed which is getting a lot traction today since the ones yesterday were taken down, same line of thought. Calling for a civilian run blockade asking people their business on the island. He claimed to be a volunteer fire fighter and willing to take his SCBA unit to the bridge and do it himself, but sounded to me like he's looking for some community support.

A voice of reason on the page telling people to "stay calm, put the pitch forks away, reset yer triggerlocks.store the ammo away from the kids in a safe place (not behind the furnace!)"

I'm tempted to comment that quote from Ben Franklin about freedom and liberties, but I'm just going to keep out of it.

I think for the big picture, in the event of a more serious threat (higher mortality rate virus, zombies, invading alien forces), relying on a bridge which can be closed from the inside probably foolish. I have family with boats on Georgian bay, and getting to the property by boat is doable, having a land vehicle on site is another can of worms.

This same problem could be found by many preppers en route to their bug out location, if say, a rural townie decides to put up blockades on their section of highway. Any choke point can be a point of concern, and in some cases, a detour Midway through a route can be a huge issue.

Prior to this property, I was exercising a rule of three's for driving routes in the scope of; know three separate routes from your home to BOL, ideally leaving your home in three different directions. Of course, the start and ends of those three routes will almost always converge to one of two (maybe three) directions of departure or arrival. In my case, all driving routes converge at the highway leading to the island.
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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by Stercutus » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:22 pm

You make it sound like somewhere I would not be headed to under the best of circumstances.

If he does get any traction to set up an illegal road block/ check point to make detentions and question people without any authority to do so he and whoever gets on board with him might be headed off to the County Jail to think about things for a while. In fact I would refer the message board and him to the Sheriff's Office if they even seriously discuss doing it. His attempt to use his office as a VF could sign the County up for liability issues they simply don't want and would be expensive to deal with.
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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by BullOnParade » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:28 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:22 pm
You make it sound like somewhere I would not be headed to under the best of circumstances.

If he does get any traction to set up an illegal road block/ check point to make detentions and question people without any authority to do so he and whoever gets on board with him might be headed off to the County Jail to think about things for a while. In fact I would refer the message board and him to the Sheriff's Office if they even seriously discuss doing it. His attempt to use his office as a VF could sign the County up for liability issues they simply don't want and would be expensive to deal with.
My argument is that these people and this mentality is everywhere. If you have somewhere to be and shit has hit the fan. You should be prepared to encounter these circumstances.
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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by MPMalloy » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:37 pm

BullOnParade wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:28 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:22 pm
You make it sound like somewhere I would not be headed to under the best of circumstances.

If he does get any traction to set up an illegal road block/ check point to make detentions and question people without any authority to do so he and whoever gets on board with him might be headed off to the County Jail to think about things for a while. In fact I would refer the message board and him to the Sheriff's Office if they even seriously discuss doing it. His attempt to use his office as a VF could sign the County up for liability issues they simply don't want and would be expensive to deal with.
My argument is that these people and this mentality is everywhere. If you have somewhere to be and shit has hit the fan. You should be prepared to encounter these circumstances.
I see both POVs. "Someone" should make an anonymous tip. On da DL, but for realreal. :wink:

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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by Stercutus » Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:51 am

BullOnParade wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:28 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:22 pm
You make it sound like somewhere I would not be headed to under the best of circumstances.

If he does get any traction to set up an illegal road block/ check point to make detentions and question people without any authority to do so he and whoever gets on board with him might be headed off to the County Jail to think about things for a while. In fact I would refer the message board and him to the Sheriff's Office if they even seriously discuss doing it. His attempt to use his office as a VF could sign the County up for liability issues they simply don't want and would be expensive to deal with.
My argument is that these people and this mentality is everywhere. If you have somewhere to be and shit has hit the fan. You should be prepared to encounter these circumstances.
Point taken, but illegal is illegal.
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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by BullOnParade » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:38 am

Stercutus wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:51 am
BullOnParade wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:28 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:22 pm
You make it sound like somewhere I would not be headed to under the best of circumstances.

If he does get any traction to set up an illegal road block/ check point to make detentions and question people without any authority to do so he and whoever gets on board with him might be headed off to the County Jail to think about things for a while. In fact I would refer the message board and him to the Sheriff's Office if they even seriously discuss doing it. His attempt to use his office as a VF could sign the County up for liability issues they simply don't want and would be expensive to deal with.
My argument is that these people and this mentality is everywhere. If you have somewhere to be and shit has hit the fan. You should be prepared to encounter these circumstances.
Point taken, but illegal is illegal.
Definitely. I would rather see this pan out, since I'm not going for this crisis, I'd rather see how the cards fall so I know better for next time.

A newspaper from my college town ran an article about people from the city of Toronto bugging out to cottage country (the area I grew up). This region is still 6 hours south of the rural property I own.
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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by moab » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:35 pm

This happens everywhere. Even in well to do communities like the one I live in. A beach town in Southern California. It was expensive and crowded enough to live here. But then they built a Google Campus a couple miles from town. Having one of LA's better school districts. Actually one of the best. Has sent Google employees fighting over real estate and rentals here. A house goes up for sale and ten couples show up having a bidding war. Rents have increased dramatically. And everyone blames Google. But there's little way to tell who they are.

But in all reality everyone and their brother may be talking smack about the out of towners from Google. But no one is really doing anything about it. No one is taking any negative action. It's just how it is.

I wouldn't worry about it. Continue on like the very nice likable guy that you are. You'll make friends. And things will simmer down. Every community has it's gadflys. Some louder than others. But all keyboard warriors at best. But I know how it feels to be the new guy in a town that might have a few people that don't want you. It will pass. Help others. Be outgoing. And you'll be part of the community before you know it.
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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by RoneKiln » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:39 pm

Sounds like you have a guy with a big ego that feels helpless and he's struggling with how to make things better.

In a truly serious SHTF scenario that incites lots of people to become mobile, that insecure fool is likely to set up a roadblock. I'd practice how to get him on your side. When you show up and he's there, a simple "thank god someone is watching the bridge. Thanks for stepping up and helping protect our property" could go a long way towards smoothing things over with the guy.

If things got REAL bad, you might actually come to appreciate the idiot being there and want to help him out.
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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by TacAir » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:57 pm

A couple of simple points

Don't be the last one to show up (if you ever plan on using the property as a BOL, go early)

Don't show up empty handed.
My BIL lives in rural Utah. Their local markets were emptied by people driving down from SLC (2 hours away) Pissed off a lot of the locals. Next day, the merchants had signs about limits (what they didn't say for for out of towners. This is a real problem in any rural community....

Good luck, sound like a nice place to work hard to be a "local" (volunter FD or something)
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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by lailr » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:26 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:04 am
CrossCut wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:39 pm
One thing I'm sure you already considered Bull is to bring your deed and maybe tax records (if applicable) for the property, I'd be leery of "campers" too but property owners are different imo.
Bull: You are the owner of the property, and can do, or not, with your property, as you see fit. None of this should be construed as any sort of "license' to be jerkish.

meebee I've had too much caffeine already. :?
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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by raptor » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:07 pm

I alternate between a rural area in MS and NOLA. The income disparity of MS is great and when I bought the place I went out of my way to establish a connection to the community. That way I do have people there who know me. I understand and accept that I will always be an "outsider".

If you want to use a small rural community as your BOL as I do you need to make connections ahead of time to at least have some locals who know and will likely "vouch" for you. It also means that if you are properly prepared you do not have to "helicopter in" and buy out everything at the nearest store. You should pre-plan and have the place stocked already. It actually defeats the purpose of the place not to do this.

Just a hint. In many of the places there will be a common element. In my community it was a rural Catholic Church. I made connections in the community by attending services there regularly, joining the Men's Club and helping maintain the place as well as other charitable projects.

I did not throw $ money around but rather went out and worked cutting the grass, painting and sweating in the summer heat with the boys. That time together was honestly self serving because I wanted to know who around me was a worker/doer, a leader and a neer do well. It also served the purpose of proving that I was willing to work and sweat with the boys.

Just saying proper preps include understanding the social/societal aspects of the BOL neighborhood.


https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/we-should ... -hamptons/
It’s all-out class warfare in the Hamptons.

The year-round residents, the locals who serve and clean and landscape for the super-rich in the summertime — and put up with all manner of entitlement and terrible behavior in exchange for good money — are silent no more.

“There’s not a vegetable to be found in this town right now,” says one resident of Springs, a working-class pocket of East Hampton. “It’s these elitist people who think they don’t have to follow the rules.”

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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by lailr » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:13 pm

raptor wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:07 pm
I alternate between a rural area in MS and NOLA. The income disparity of MS is great and when I bought the place I went out of my way to establish a connection to the community. That way I do have people there who know me. I understand and accept that I will always be an "outsider".

If you want to use a small rural community as your BOL as I do you need to make connections ahead of time to at least have some locals who know and will likely "vouch" for you. It also means that if you are properly prepared you do not have to "helicopter in" and buy out everything at the nearest store. You should pre-plan and have the place stocked already. It actually defeats the purpose of the place not to do this.

Just a hint. In many of the places there will be a common element. In my community it was a rural Catholic Church. I made connections in the community by attending services there regularly, joining the Men's Club and helping maintain the place as well as other charitable projects.

I did not throw $ money around but rather went out and worked cutting the grass, painting and sweating in the summer heat with the boys. That time together was honestly self serving because I wanted to know who around me was a worker/doer, a leader and a neer do well. It also served the purpose of proving that I was willing to work and sweat with the boys.

Just saying proper preps include understanding the social/societal aspects of the BOL neighborhood.


https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/we-should ... -hamptons/
It’s all-out class warfare in the Hamptons.

The year-round residents, the locals who serve and clean and landscape for the super-rich in the summertime — and put up with all manner of entitlement and terrible behavior in exchange for good money — are silent no more.

“There’s not a vegetable to be found in this town right now,” says one resident of Springs, a working-class pocket of East Hampton. “It’s these elitist people who think they don’t have to follow the rules.”


That's exactly the way to do it.......and while folks may consider you an outsider, you'll at least be "their" outsider....



Just don't move South because you like the atmosphere, and then tell us how you used to do something "Up North" :roll:

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Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by BullOnParade » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:37 pm

Right on Raptor, that's how it's supposed to be done.

We've only met three neighbours, only one of them is a local boy. My immediate neighbouring lot is a local cop and I really want to meet him, I've only been told about him by two of the three I've met.

Church is great like that. There's a series of community breakfasts put on by the municipal office a few times a year to fundraise for the school. Those seem like a great way to get involved.
BullOnParade

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.

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boskone
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Posts: 1171
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:07 pm
Location: Aggieland-ish

Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by boskone » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:55 pm

lailr wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:13 pm
Just don't move South because you like the atmosphere, and then tell us how you used to do something "Up North" :roll:
"Oh, we just love the environment and cost of living. But back home we..."

:vmad:

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SCBrian
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Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:56 pm
Location: Charleston, SC

Re: Rural property, but the locals don't want you there ...

Post by SCBrian » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:58 pm

boskone wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:55 pm
lailr wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:13 pm
Just don't move South because you like the atmosphere, and then tell us how you used to do something "Up North" :roll:
"Oh, we just love the environment and cost of living. But back home we..."
:vmad:
This.
This x 2
I live in (sometimes unfortunitly) one of the fast growing areas in the SE. I've lived here all my life, and remember when the town was considered "semi-rural" I've watched it grow up. Change is going to happen, I deal with it, the traffic, etc. But the best way to tick off the locals is not to adapt and assimilate. "I really dont care how you did it back home, if you like it so much, go back there, this is how we do it here. Remember why you moved here?? " I dont care who you are, I'll get along with you until you tell me "This is how we did it back in Michaganohionewjersry, etc. "
I tilt at Windmills
BattleVersion wrote:For my Family?...Burn down the world, sure... But, I'm also willing to carry it on my shoulders.
raptor wrote:...I am allergic to bullets;I break out in blood.
jnathan wrote:... you can choke on my Hebrew National.

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