Active Shooter Defense

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Active Shooter Defense

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:18 pm

Today at work we were reviewing active shooter videos to but on the internal TV channel. Here were some of the candidates. I liked the LACSO best.





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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by teotwaki » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:51 pm

I will have to watch the videos a little later........I just heard a radio broadcast where the guest speaker advocated the following if the bad guy breaks into the room you are barricaded within: agree ahead of time with others to "swarm" the shooter as he/she comes in the door, take away the weapon, beat the shooter to a pulp and exit the room and/or facility.

https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/act ... ooklet.pdf
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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by shrapnel » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:58 pm

Our active shooter protocol (I just did the training) at the hospital I work at boils down to: abandon patients and get the fuck out; if you can't get out, hide (spread out and not clustered together for obvious reasons), preferably in a room with a keypad entry on the door, but not in a room that could conceivably have drugs in it; turn off the lights and also set your copious noisemaking devices to silent while you cower; and if all of the above fails and you feel comfortable with it, strongly consider trying to bash the shooter to death with a fire extinguisher or IV pole or whatever when s/he enters your hiding place trying to kill you (don't bash a cop or first responder, though).

If I'm someplace that isn't work, the same basic plan applies, just there won't be any patients to abandon and I suspect IV poles will be harder to find. So that's my plan, because by god I am a person who follows directions.
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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by Asymetryczna » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:23 pm

What about the day you are wearing black pants and a dark jacket and carrying a camo (or green or OD) backpack? Should you run once you get outside the building?
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by teotwaki » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:12 pm

Asymetryczna wrote:What about the day you are wearing black pants and a dark jacket and carrying a camo (or green or OD) backpack? Should you run once you get outside the building?
Walk slowly with your hands up if you don't want your blood pressure to suddenly drop to zero :lol:
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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by teotwaki » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:15 pm

shrapnel wrote:---------snip-----strongly consider trying to bash the shooter to death with a fire extinguisher or IV pole or whatever when s/he enters your hiding place trying to kill you (don't bash a cop or first responder, though).

If I'm someplace that isn't work, the same basic plan applies, just there won't be any patients to abandon and I suspect IV poles will be harder to find. So that's my plan, because by god I am a person who follows directions.

Is this qualified as a whatever? :clap:

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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by TheWarriorMax » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:19 pm

I'll just leave this here... Maybe how not to run...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=szcviFDt9xM
Last edited by TheWarriorMax on Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by shrapnel » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:22 pm

teotwaki wrote:
shrapnel wrote:---------snip-----strongly consider trying to bash the shooter to death with a fire extinguisher or IV pole or whatever when s/he enters your hiding place trying to kill you (don't bash a cop or first responder, though).

If I'm someplace that isn't work, the same basic plan applies, just there won't be any patients to abandon and I suspect IV poles will be harder to find. So that's my plan, because by god I am a person who follows directions.

Is this qualified as a whatever? :clap:

Image
Ours are plastic so it would be a gentle bonk at best. Plus, if I'm trying to bash a maniac I want something with some reach on it! :lol:
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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:24 pm

teotwaki wrote:
shrapnel wrote:---------snip-----strongly consider trying to bash the shooter to death with a fire extinguisher or IV pole or whatever when s/he enters your hiding place trying to kill you (don't bash a cop or first responder, though).

If I'm someplace that isn't work, the same basic plan applies, just there won't be any patients to abandon and I suspect IV poles will be harder to find. So that's my plan, because by god I am a person who follows directions.

Is this qualified as a whatever? :clap:

Image

Need to add some mass to that. I'm sure everyone will be able to contribute
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Big black nemesis, parthenogenesis
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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by teotwaki » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:10 pm

LOL. Shrapnel and Evan, you two are killing me! :mrgreen:
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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by Viper shtf » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:38 am

Work doesn't have an active shooter protocol, let alone videos for it, should i feel left out??
Though I don't see why anyone would shoot up a Jaguar dealership. No, if it weere gonna happen in our dealer group, it would be BMW.
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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by Stercutus » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:47 am

Viper shtf wrote:Work doesn't have an active shooter protocol, let alone videos for it, should i feel left out??
Though I don't see why anyone would shoot up a Jaguar dealership. No, if it weere gonna happen in our dealer group, it would be BMW.
I have run across my fair share of disgruntled car salesmen.
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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:49 am

Viper shtf wrote: Though I don't see why anyone would shoot up a Jaguar dealership. No, if it weere gonna happen in our dealer group, it would be BMW.
Mention it to your supervisor. You might not be the target of terrorists but what about a disgruntled employee? What if you fired somebody, they take it badly go to the trunk of their car and come back with a gun.
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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by majorhavoc » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:22 am

Excellent vids, Evan. My workplace also lacks any sort of active shooter protocol/training. Although a lot of it is common sense, there were several useful nuggets in those videos.

Sad I have to be thinking about this sort of thing, but such is the world we live in.

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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by duodecima » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:27 am

Yep to what Stercutus and Evan said - also what about disturbed/disgruntled customers? As an out patient clinic, the threats we've gotten (both places I've worked) have come from patients who were both unhappy and had some pretty serious mental health issues in addition.

We don't have videos (we're cheap!) but we do have active shooter drills. We usually 'loose' 2-7 people, unfortunately. There was some difficulty at first getting folks to take the drill seriously. The university actually officially added run/hide/fight as somthing every instructor needed to cover in the syllabus and mention in the first class. (No idea on compliance with that tho.)

Shrap - I just had an unhappy thought. You say you're supposed to get behind a keypad lock - what if the shooter is an employee? Can you lock one of those from the inside?
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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by shrapnel » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:46 am

It's mostly a moot point, really. The only rooms I know the keypads to are the tube drop stations and I'm not hiding in one of those. They're the size of a closet and only have one entrance. Like hell I'm getting cornered in there.
OTTB wrote:"What's that you're wearing?"
"This? Oh, just my rabies hat."
shrapnel wrote:Darling, I would never fondle your sphenoid.
Dr. Cox wrote: People aren't chocolates. Do you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard fillings.
JamesCannon wrote:Shrapnel, if you were a superhero, you'd be Captain Buzzkill Peener Pain.

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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:53 pm

duodecima wrote:
We don't have videos (we're cheap!) but we do have active shooter drills. We usually 'loose' 2-7 people, unfortunately. There was some difficulty at first getting folks to take the drill seriously. The university actually officially added run/hide/fight as something every instructor needed to cover in the syllabus and mention in the first class. (No idea on compliance with that tho.)
All of those videos are free on YouTube. Avail your self to them. Some places have "floor wardens" to make sure everyone gets out in case of fire, maybe they could view the video and then just have a coffee chat some Tuesday and review how they would escape, where they would hide, how could they fight back.
Priests and cannibals, prehistoric animals
Everybody happy as the dead come home

Big black nemesis, parthenogenesis
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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by Dave_M » Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:07 pm

shrapnel wrote:Our active shooter protocol (I just did the training) at the hospital I work at boils down to: abandon patients and get the fuck out; if you can't get out, hide (spread out and not clustered together for obvious reasons), preferably in a room with a keypad entry on the door, but not in a room that could conceivably have drugs in it; turn off the lights and also set your copious noisemaking devices to silent while you cower; and if all of the above fails and you feel comfortable with it, strongly consider trying to bash the shooter to death with a fire extinguisher or IV pole or whatever when s/he enters your hiding place trying to kill you (don't bash a cop or first responder, though).

If I'm someplace that isn't work, the same basic plan applies, just there won't be any patients to abandon and I suspect IV poles will be harder to find. So that's my plan, because by god I am a person who follows directions.
Yes, Run-Hide-Fight. For the unarmed (or even those who are armed that decide not to intervene) it's the best course of action for survivability.
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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by Viper shtf » Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:45 pm

I'm not really worried about it, but it would be nice if we were allowed to carry in the shop. At least my car with Cz-75 inside is only 30-40 yards away.
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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by MacAttack » Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:30 pm

My workplace is pretty nice in that everyone on the ground floor has a secure fire door in of our departments leading outside.

The office people upstairs are screwed though.
They only have the front and back stairs. A third door leads to the roof but that is connected to the back stairs. And they have no place to hide. Three bad guys could get all thirty of them inside two minutes.

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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by Watch Ryder » Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:55 pm

Besides the biased casting of the shooters the video can also be criticized for discouraging licensed (and defiant) CCW holders. Improvised weapons are ok, but having a handgun (of your own) is much better.

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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:04 pm

Watch Ryder wrote:Besides the biased casting of the shooters the video can also be criticized for discouraging licensed (and defiant) CCW holders. Improvised weapons are ok, but having a handgun (of your own) is much better.
We're not taking that bait?
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Everybody happy as the dead come home

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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by duodecima » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:20 am

Evan the Diplomat wrote:
duodecima wrote:
We don't have videos (we're cheap!) but we do have active shooter drills. We usually 'loose' 2-7 people, unfortunately. There was some difficulty at first getting folks to take the drill seriously. The university actually officially added run/hide/fight as something every instructor needed to cover in the syllabus and mention in the first class. (No idea on compliance with that tho.)
All of those videos are free on YouTube. Avail your self to them. Some places have "floor wardens" to make sure everyone gets out in case of fire, maybe they could view the video and then just have a coffee chat some Tuesday and review how they would escape, where they would hide, how could they fight back.
I have mentioned this, and was actually asked to send links a year or 2 ago (and did so). I can update them on what's available, since it actually got addressed at staff meeting today. Apparently a lot of my coworkers have expressed concern after the recent events since, like I said, we routinely have a few unhappy folks and have actually had threats in the past (tho they never showed up). So we're striking while the iron is hot and will run a drill over the holidays when it's mostly staff and fewer patients. Like Shrap, our instructions are to get ourselves safe, and take anyone with us that we can. The "fight" piece is also being emphasized more.

People mostly did take it seriously after the first few drills - the after-action report on drills includes how many people 'died' on each unit. I think that gets people's attention. This is not different than how we do fire and tornado drills, also. Anybody not responding to a drill (or not responding reasonably quickly) gets reported as "dead". And then scolded a little by admin and teased by coworkers if they find out. Peer pressure at its finest...
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Re: Active Shooter Defense

Post by Wraith6761 » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:59 pm

Thought this seemed relevant to the conversation, since most workplaces I've been have had a filing cabinet (or 2...or 20) sitting around. It does raise the question in my mind of how many cabinets would be needed before it switches from concealment to cover, but I guess that would depend too much on the weapon being used. I'd still try for getting the hell out of the building, but if given no real viable alternative, blocking a door with as many of these as possible might be a somewhat viable option, at least for the short-term.

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