Flee the country!

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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DFWMTX
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Re: Flee the country!

Post by DFWMTX » Tue May 05, 2015 4:00 pm

LowKey wrote:Fleeing the country when there's been a governmental collapse or breakdown?
You'd have to exit the country, and without Immigration and Customs officers on duty (who wont be there if the system is collapsing), your exiting that nation without going through legal border controls would be illegal.
We don't discuss illegal things here on ZS, right? 'Cause we respect all the rules.
Were we discussing "how to enter another country bypassing the border/customs officials" I'd say the "don't discuss illegal stuff" rule would be in effect. However the discussion of what to leave a falling country with, not how to leave said falling country, wouldn't be a violation of the "don't discuss illegal stuff" rule.
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Re: Flee the country!

Post by modustollens » Tue May 05, 2015 8:33 pm

Bypassing borders is not illegal in all cases:

It would not be illegal for, if the political system has collapsed, then that would include the legal system. And there are laws regarding a requirement to accept and protect refugees. So, it would not be illegal to leave in case of a collapse (for legal law ceases to exist at that moment) nor to enter another country (provided one is a refugee and not merely an economic migrant).

If one is a refugee, not because of government collapse but because of intense persecution, it would still not be illegal to leave for tyrannical governments are not legitimate. It is not an absolute crime to escape with your life from a genocidal government (though it may be 'illegal' relative to that genocidal government; but, since such governments are morally illegitimate, its 'legal' pronouncements have no absolute legal status).

Consequently, there is nothing wrong with discussing how refugees, can evade border controls (though, obviously, this would not be true regarding mere contraband smugglers).

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Last edited by modustollens on Tue May 05, 2015 9:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Flee the country!

Post by raptor » Tue May 05, 2015 8:49 pm

A US citizen is not required to have an exit visa to leave to leave the US.

However, discussion of how to cross a border illegally by avoiding border crossings is not permitted here.

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Re: Flee the country!

Post by Mountainsquid » Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:58 am

Kutter_0311 wrote:I have already picked my top 2 bug-outcountries, Switzerland and Israel,

Daaaaammmnn That answer could use some work! Israel is surrounded by enemies and 1/3 of it's annual defense budget comes from Uncle Sugar. I'm having a hard time envisioning a scenario where you need to leave the US and conditions aren't going to be as bad/markedly worse in Israel as a result.

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Re: Flee the country!

Post by Halfapint » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:43 am

For me, If I have to flee the country, number one choice is Iceland. If I cant make it there, or if I do and am told to leave. I'm going to some other Nordic country. Just my two cents.
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Re: Flee the country!

Post by flybynight » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:13 pm

F those Blue meanies, Not fleeing, because WE LIVE HERE !... WOLVERINES !!!!
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Re: Flee the country!

Post by DFWMTX » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:41 pm

Question: do SD and Micro-SD cards have the same vulnerabilities to being hacked like the USB sticks we've been discussing?
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Re: Flee the country!

Post by MacAttack » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:16 pm

DFWMTX wrote:Question: do SD and Micro-SD cards have the same vulnerabilities to being hacked like the USB sticks we've been discussing?

Wrong thread?


Of course they do.

If your computer can access the information then someone elses can also.


Unless you think you can read the data off of a standard USB stick wirelessly.

Which you can not. But they do make wireless USB sticks now and those might just be vulnerable to a hack.

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Re: Flee the country!

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:49 pm

With all of Europe, Australia, America, and several other countries currently fighting over who takes what refugees and where they go, I have to ask if those planning to flee to another country have done anything to ensure that country would take you. Switzerland, last I checked, has something of a "fuck you" attitude toward furriners unless they have buttloads of money, Israel similarly has plenty of refugees they're currently..."dealing with" in a manner that makes me think they don't want anymore. Sweden takes a decent number of refugees, but they have a rising anti-immigrant party, although I don't know how much power they hold. Iceland limits immigration very heavily. Australia has been paying people-smugglers to turn back around with boatloads of people.

If you don't speak the language, have you begun learning it? Do you have a passport, and have you done anything to guarantee that you won't be turned away immediately or have your boat sunk beneath you? Have you procured proof of any job skills or certifications you intend to use to prove you can do something other than sweep floors?
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Re: Flee the country!

Post by Zimmy » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:32 pm

Interesting data on the usb drives. Thanks.

I'd get my family off to relatives in Guatemala under escort of friends in Mexico. From there they can bug out to Oz where my oldest son lives. If that all fails, my youngest son is a German citizen and landowner. I'd send them there with the basic light BOB described above. The only addition I'm going to specifically mention LifeStraw water purification straws on their persons. Bad water kills in refugee camps. Each has market worthy skills that transfer well internationally.

Then I'm headed back home to drive those blue dirtbags out of my precious Mesquiteland. We freed it in 1836 and we'll do it again, By God.
Boldly going nowhere

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Re: Flee the country!

Post by drop bear » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:12 am

Stercutus wrote:I'd go to Australia. Australia does hire prior military from other countries with combat experience. My duffle bag would be full of whatever hard currency did ot get transferred and valuables. The briefcase would have papers, a bottle of water and a few snacks. I'd carry a small pistol until I could not anymore. If I am going to run away I want that to be clear.

We are not super refugee friendly.

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Re: Flee the country!

Post by drop bear » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:15 am

Currency in about 8 different concealed areas on my body. Hopefully survive more than 1 shakedown.

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Re: Flee the country!

Post by Stercutus » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:25 am

Mountainsquid wrote:
Kutter_0311 wrote:I have already picked my top 2 bug-outcountries, Switzerland and Israel,

Daaaaammmnn That answer could use some work! Israel is surrounded by enemies and 1/3 of it's annual defense budget comes from Uncle Sugar. I'm having a hard time envisioning a scenario where you need to leave the US and conditions aren't going to be as bad/markedly worse in Israel as a result.
Well at least the Swiss economy has recovered.
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Re: Flee the country!

Post by raptor » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:56 pm

Stercutus wrote: Well at least the Swiss economy has recovered.

If you are a Non-EU citizen getting a class b visa (which lets you stay 1 year and you must have this for 5+years to qualify for a class c visa for permanent residency) is somewhat difficult unless you have independent means and/or a Swiss employer. In a situation where US citizens are refugees, I suspect that these visa will be a lot more difficult to obtain.
Last edited by raptor on Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Flee the country!

Post by Stercutus » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:11 pm

raptor wrote:
Stercutus wrote: Well at least the Swiss economy has recovered.

If you are a Non-EU citizen getting a class b visa (which let you stay stay 1 year and you must have for 5+years to qualify for a class c visa for permanent residency) is somewhat difficult unless you have independent means and/or a Swiss employer. In a situation where US citizens are refugees I suspect that these visa will be a lot more difficult to obtain.
Let's do this right. In my fantasy move to Switzerland I have cash deposits well in excess of the required reserves to obtain automatic immigration rights if not outright citizenship.
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Re: Flee the country!

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:39 am

Stercutus wrote:
raptor wrote:
Stercutus wrote: Well at least the Swiss economy has recovered.

If you are a Non-EU citizen getting a class b visa (which let you stay stay 1 year and you must have for 5+years to qualify for a class c visa for permanent residency) is somewhat difficult unless you have independent means and/or a Swiss employer. In a situation where US citizens are refugees I suspect that these visa will be a lot more difficult to obtain.
Let's do this right. In my fantasy move to Switzerland I have cash deposits well in excess of the required reserves to obtain automatic immigration rights if not outright citizenship.
Seems like it would be easier to fantasy-away whatever's making you flee...
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Re: Flee the country!

Post by raptor » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:39 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Let's do this right. In my fantasy move to Switzerland I have cash deposits well in excess of the required reserves to obtain automatic immigration rights if not outright citizenship.
As a Swiss banker once told me " Anything is possible if the right person asks and proper incentive is guaranteed."

Now of course he was answering my query as to whether or not a certain restaurant would have a table available for our group.

Still I think the answer applies in this case. :D

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Re: Flee the country!

Post by Stercutus » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:15 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
raptor wrote:
Stercutus wrote: Well at least the Swiss economy has recovered.

If you are a Non-EU citizen getting a class b visa (which let you stay stay 1 year and you must have for 5+years to qualify for a class c visa for permanent residency) is somewhat difficult unless you have independent means and/or a Swiss employer. In a situation where US citizens are refugees I suspect that these visa will be a lot more difficult to obtain.
Let's do this right. In my fantasy move to Switzerland I have cash deposits well in excess of the required reserves to obtain automatic immigration rights if not outright citizenship.
Seems like it would be easier to fantasy-away whatever's making you flee...
Oh, yeah, sure then I wouldn't be filthy rich.
raptor wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
Let's do this right. In my fantasy move to Switzerland I have cash deposits well in excess of the required reserves to obtain automatic immigration rights if not outright citizenship.
As a Swiss banker once told me " Anything is possible if the right person asks and proper incentive is guaranteed."

Now of course he was answering my query as to whether or not a certain restaurant would have a table available for our group.

Still I think the answer applies in this case. :D
I haven't had to tip for a table since I lived up North.

But yep it applies. They have the reserve limits spelled out with their visa applications.

http://business-investor-immigration.co ... r-program/
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Re: Flee the country!

Post by RoneKiln » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:36 pm

The OP indicated we're not fleeing the US, but Hypothetica. And it's under a belief that we will be given refuge in the land of Green Giants. I don't think this indicates anything illegal is intended. This isn't about illegal immigration.

I have a number of good friends I trust in multiple countries. Maintaining strong social networks is the best and most often used prep I have ever had. I think I'd have sent copies of personal paperwork, both digital and hardcopy to several of them. I would use a smaller frame pack I own to pack a few personal momentos and good clothes in. I would take one handgun to protect myself while traveling, assuming the Land of Green Giants would not let me keep it as I entered their borders.

If I expect a long refugee camp wait, I could bypass some of that seeing friends in other countries. I do my best to look out for people and I am known for working hard and contributing however I can, so I wouldn't be freeloading. I often get offers to be flown places for visits if I help out with odds and ends. I could honestly and ethically say I'm just visiting when going through customs of those countries (assuming my passport is welcome).
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