How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Mikeyboy » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:49 am

This is something I was thinking about and something that came up during the discussion of the season finale of TWD.
ausher wrote:I haven't watched it yet, but its kinda strange this group of people turned into cannibals in a short period of time.....
Not necessarily the cannibal part but just people going full blow crazy, or following people that are full blow crazy. IF the SHTF, and everything turns into a PAW with no end in sight, how long will it take for people to shed the social norms. Sure kill or be killed will quickly become the norm in a PAW, but how long will it take for some people to become twisted and sick. I'm not just talking the mentally ill who already had a closet leaning towards violence, I'm talking the general population being OK with it.

There was a time in world history where people would watch other people fight to the death, or go and see a public execution...and not a trying to be humane execution, stuff like burning people, or piking people, or a crucifixion. History is filled with times were life was filled with brutality, cruelty, and lawlessness.

How long do you think it would take our current society to go completely mad, where you had a town of cannibals, a governor that ran gladiatorial games, gruesome public executions, and wandering gangs that raped and pillaged.

Will it take days, months, years?

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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Manimal2878 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:25 am

I don't think we are anymore mature as a whole than in the past. If executions were public there would be a crowd to watch right now, even without an apoc. scenario. Plenty of cruelty and brutality abound, it is just under the surface compared to what most of us see. For example a sex slave ring was uncovered in my county not long ago. Many people would assume slavery is a thing of the past, but it is still going on.

That said, I don't think the SHTF will or ever can be a permanent state. Humans are social animals and communities and governments will spring up immediately to push back against chaos and create order. But of course, as you point out, don't expect law and order to be any less brutal than the chaos. The burning at the stake, crucifictions, piking and other now considered barbaric forms of execution were sanctioned by the state of the time to punish those that threatened the order.

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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by ineffableone » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:58 am

Sadly I don't think it will take very long at all.

Considering experiments done where people blindly followed the directions of people in lab coats. Shocking an unseen test subject with higher and higher voltage even after it seemed obvious the person had passed out from the pain.

The point of referencing that is how easy it is to get people to do things they know is wrong with just an illusion of authority. That is in current society. In a PAW situation where authority is likely a lot more violently gained. People will follow along with what they are told even easier.

There are factors like being in shock that will make it easier to get people to follow. As well as hunger is a huge motivator. Of course in a world like WD safety and security from zombies and raiders is a powerful motivator too.

So after SHTF and things don't return to normal, I think we will see a lot of sick crap happening and good people just letting it happen.

Of course that said, I do think there will be a surprising amount of good happening too. I think it is easy to get stuck looking only at the negatives. But I honestly can see a lot of surprising good happening too. Things like the Vatos in season 1 of WD. People who you might not expect it taking on caring for elderly. I think there is a lot of good in people, and in crisis we will end up seeing a lot of it come out when least expected.
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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Neptune Glory » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:09 am

I hope that the good people aren't afraid to assert themselves. Sometimes, from what I've read, the problem is that only the bad ones are using brutality to assert themselves.

While I don't think good people would resort to some of the more barbaric practices of old, I hope they wouldn't hesitate to defend their own lives with whatever means necessary to stop a threat.

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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Browning 35 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:12 pm

Lord Cameron of Dillington, head of the UK’s Countryside Agency stated that civilization is only '9 meals away from anarchy' ...meaning that the average grocery store where we now hunt and gather, only carries a 3 day inventory.

The way I figure it most people have about 2-3 weeks worth of food in their cabinets if you're counting the enchilada aside and the two year old pinto beans in the back that's gathered dust, so when that runs out then it's 3 days. So my estimate is roughly 3 weeks to a month before people start sprouting horns and fangs.

For some taking from others has become a lifestyle and they of course will start immediately, I don't think that'll hold true for the majority of people though. I think it'll take a bit longer before the mask of normalcy slips off completely.
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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by ineffableone » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:33 pm

Browning 35 wrote:Lord Cameron of Dillington, head of the UK’s Countryside Agency stated that civilization is only '9 meals away from anarchy' ...meaning that the average grocery store where we now hunt and gather, only carries a 3 day inventory.

The way I figure it most people have about 2-3 weeks worth of food in their cabinets if you're counting the enchilada aside and the two year old pinto beans in the back that's gathered dust, so when that runs out then it's 3 days. So my estimate is roughly 3 weeks to a month before people start sprouting horns and fangs.

For some taking from others has become a lifestyle and they of course will start immediately, I don't think that'll hold true for the majority of people though. I think it'll take a bit longer before the mask of normalcy slips off completely.
I think the OP is talking about going further than just raiding for food, or other similar expected behavior.

I think, and correct me if I am wrong Mikeyboy, this thread is about going full blown wacko, not just survival instincts.

Things like going cannibal, or making sculptures out of dead bodies (I know someone who was discharged from the military when he did this in Viet Nam), or harems of underage children, or other things we consider big time culture taboos. Not the basic don't steal, but the biggies that are almost universal in people's distaste of them. Insest, necrophilia, bestiality are the common ones that come to mind along with cannibalism.

Honestly it is hard for me to even think what weird crap someone might end up doing, I guess that is a good sign I am not prone to being one to do the weird crap, LOL.
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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:37 pm

The better question is why. Why do we think people will suddenly decide that any of these things are good ideas?

Side note, bestiality made the headlines last month, as did incest and cannibalism. I can attest as others can that many of the items listed in this thread are not uncommon in other cultures in the world. Maybe not burning at the stake, but drowning, stoning, and public execution. In the 50s we had lynchings and hanging was still the method of execution. 160 years ago we still owned slaves in the US. 100 years ago, dueling (a pretty word for "you said/did sumthin I didn't like so now we're gonna swordfight/shoot at each other") was still in fashion. It's easy to forget sometimes that the US is still crapping its diaper on the global scale. One not need look very far back in history to see what happens when social or legal convention does not prevent someone from letting their personal brand of lunacy run wild.

My opinion? I think most of the nutters would burn themselves out in the initial chaos trying to start the race war/religious war/revolution/junkyard kingdom. The up-side of not having EMS is that when someone goes and does something stupid, there's nobody to save them from themselves. That's not to say all the bad elements of society will be cleared out, but there will certainly be some hearty self-selection in addition to those lost due to lack of services. Remaining populations will quickly form their own government(s), although it may take a couple tries to get one everyone likes and attempt to return to normal as best as possible. inevitably, someone with religious or military title (deacon, reverend, colonel, legate) will roll out an apocalyptic army and Mel Gibson and Kurt Russell will get seriously injured, then come back with a vengeance to save the world.
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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Browning 35 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:49 pm

ineffableone wrote:I think the OP is talking about going further than just raiding for food, or other similar expected behavior.

I think, and correct me if I am wrong Mikeyboy, this thread is about going full blown wacko, not just survival instincts.

Things like going cannibal, or making sculptures out of dead bodies (I know someone who was discharged from the military when he did this in Viet Nam), or harems of underage children, or other things we consider big time culture taboos. Not the basic don't steal, but the biggies that are almost universal in people's distaste of them. Insest, necrophilia, bestiality are the common ones that come to mind along with cannibalism.
Yeah, but if some negative earth shattering event like that were to come about any widespread changes would likely happen gradually.

It wouldn't be like someone flipped a switch and shit gets real all at once. There would be a gradual decline into hell. Quite a bit would have to happen before people even started trading for food, much less raiding for it (to say nothing of cannibalism or a corpse-strewn version of Feng Shui).

Something like...
  • Negative event or a series of negative events occur which effect the economy and/or food supply.
  • Infrastructure begins to stutter and then fall apart with some areas of government still functioning and having it completely fail in others
  • Event begins to make its presence felt through social instability and in regards to lack of clean water, food, fuel and medical care.
  • Violent crime or government oppression (Ukraine in the 1930's) starts to become very, very common.
  • Federal, State and Local government tries to reassert itself and fails for whatever reason.
  • Food riots pop off.
  • Brown outs and black outs become more the rule rather than the exception.
  • Food, fuel, clean water and medicines start to become rare commodities.
  • Robberies and other violent crime skyrocket even more.
  • Society becomes more tribal in nature as people seek some measure of security.
  • Cases of starvation begin cropping up and the first big 'Die-out' from those who need constant medical care occurs.
  • People get really desperate as they're starving.
...and on and on.

If many of the points above occurred then *maybe* there would be a complete disregard for life, some scattered incidents of cannibalism and taking from others being common-place.

To top it off maybe various countries who have a previous history of conflict/war with each other might see this as an opportunity to gain more land and/or resources.

Just saying...most people aren't very likely to immediately jump to cannibalism, becoming some sort head hunter or a raider. Many people might not even do it then. In the last 50 years a few countries have degenerated to this point (Liberia or Sierra Leone) as the result of war or civil war, but they're few in number when compared to every conflict that's happened in the same time period even when people were starving and subject to chronic food shortages.

Plus even in some of the most destructive wars the human race has seen society has always reasserted itself at some point.
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Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Zimmy » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:51 pm

Call me optimistic.

But I believe most of the hardassed scum will be eliminated in fairly short order in a collapse. There's always more normal people than there are cannibal bikers. Once the rule of law is no longer applicable and the folks are fed up with rampaging marauders I think it's gonna be bad juju to even look like a dirtbag.

There really are a lot of people who are alive just because it is illegal to kill them.
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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by MasterMaker » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:03 pm

Everything is good, nothing will happen and the world will not fall apart.....

The problem is expectations and habits, I think one will see a lot of people falling apart because the world and everything they are accustomed to isn't there anymore, and I think it will be in two stages.

One will be just after it happens, people that can't get over the reality of everything the knew and were accustomed to being gone, the second will be after a while, when it dawns on people that things won't go back to normal and that the hope that it will that they have been clinging to for the last 6 months proves to be a false one.

People giving up and simply not doing what is needed to survive(even eating/drinking in some cases) will create a secondary and tertiary death toll after the shtf event.

There are a lot of people that act calm, nice and civilized because the world and their perception of it calm, nice an civilized, peoples brains haven't evolved since the dark ages(genetic evolution in 10-20 generations doesn't happen), the world has just gotten calmer and more organized and orderly, all one has to do is look back a few hundred years or look to areas of the world that are less calm, the behavior then/there will be the reality when the calm, nice and orderly world people are used to goes away.

The bad people weren't killed of en masse in the dark ages(when there was a lot less people on the planet), in fact they were doing a lot of the killing, and if the world goes dark again the same will happen again.
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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Murphman » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:28 pm

More people died in the last century than ever before in the course of human history. Why on Earth do you think that stuff is not happening now?

Just saw on the news one of the Dupont heirs raped a kid, after prettying her up like a doll, and didn't go to jail. Judge won't comment.

Jeffrey Dahmer ate how many people?

How many unsolved murders are there in NYC alone?

I am personal friends with at least 3 people who were sexually assaulted as minors. I say at least because I have become good enough friends for them to discuss with me. Who knows how many others there are.

Whenever I think of things like this, I like to think that mankind would pull above anarchy, and continue to thrive in a societal fashion where the rule of law prevails, but I know that the rule of law is shit, and it is simply whoever has the biggest guns makes the rules. This has been a constant throughout the annals of history. That won't change in a SHTF situation.

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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by ZomCon Sargeant » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:21 pm

It really all depends.

One week in when people are short on water or have no potable water most will start to get very desperate and go mad from dehydration.

Three weeks in when people are short or totally out of food is when people will really start doing harm to one another.

Three months later when half the population (at least) are dead things will become calmer but at the same time more desperate. Roving gangs of psychos will rule most parts effected.

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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by LastBoyScout » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:51 pm

I think a lot of it will have to do with timing and location. What I mean is what time of year and or weather and where you are in the country. I think big cities will be the first to see the issue.

I live on the edge of a city now but let me tell you about one little thing that set off a town and compare it to now.

I was a law Enforcement officer in a large city (Sacramento CA). This was in the 1980’s.
Back then no one had cell phones but a lot had pagers. Cops had pagers, Doctors had pagers and drug dealers had pagers. You could get a pager for cash and not have your name on it. Like “Burner phones” of today. There were three big pager companies in town but they all used the same towers. The towers went down and it was not even known for about 12 hours or so as it is not an active system where you know it went down. It was down for about 2 days.

The bad areas of town went crazy in the first 12 hours. People could not score whatever it was they needed as the dealers were all out of touch. Guys who did have stuff where out and could not get more form the bigger dealers and so on and so on. The drugs dried up. People where doing what every they could to get high. People were robbed coming out of Drug stores and drugs stores were robbed. Booze was the only thing available and it started to run low. It was getting to the point where a large riot was going to break out and then they fixed the issue. That was only two days and that was before everyone had a cell phone. Imagine what it would be like today and there are 100,000 more people in the city as well.

Look at the Rodney king Verdict riots etc... I think some areas are powder kegs and some not.
If it is cold out people with light stuff on fire and heat themselves but if it is summer it will be worse.

Three days without food is true but try 24 hours without drugs and when it is not just in one area like Katrina or the LA riots. That’s when the zombies will come out.

People in the country will watch it on TV just like Katrina or the LA riots till i knocks on their doors.

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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Manimal2878 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:37 am

So they had pagers, but somehow couldn't use phones, payphones, or physically communicate with people in person?
LastBoyScout wrote: I was a law Enforcement officer in a large city (Sacramento CA). This was in the 1980’s.
Back then no one had cell phones but a lot had pagers. Cops had pagers, Doctors had pagers and drug dealers had pagers. You could get a pager for cash and not have your name on it. Like “Burner phones” of today. There were three big pager companies in town but they all used the same towers. The towers went down and it was not even known for about 12 hours or so as it is not an active system where you know it went down. It was down for about 2 days.

The bad areas of town went crazy in the first 12 hours. People could not score whatever it was they needed as the dealers were all out of touch. Guys who did have stuff where out and could not get more form the bigger dealers and so on and so on. The drugs dried up. People where doing what every they could to get high. People were robbed coming out of Drug stores and drugs stores were robbed. Booze was the only thing available and it started to run low. It was getting to the point where a large riot was going to break out and then they fixed the issue. That was only two days and that was before everyone had a cell phone.

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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Browning 35 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 am

Manimal2878 wrote:So they had pagers, but somehow couldn't use phones, payphones, or physically communicate with people in person?
Back then when someone was out and about and on the road the only way to get ahold of them was to page them.

If they didn't have a pager and they'd left their house or work for the evening you were SOL unless you knew where they were going.

Sure they could use the phone to call you, but how would they know that you were trying to contact them? Telepathy? Smoke signals? That's where the beeper came in.
Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Manimal2878 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:14 am

Browning 35 wrote:
Manimal2878 wrote:So they had pagers, but somehow couldn't use phones, payphones, or physically communicate with people in person?
Back then when someone was out and about and on the road the only way to get ahold of them was to page them.

If they didn't have a pager and they'd left their house or work for the evening you were SOL unless you knew where they were going.

Sure they could use the phone to call you, but how would they know that you were trying to contact them? Telepathy? Smoke signals? That's where the beeper came in.

Yeah, I was alive before the cell phone too. I still don't buy it.

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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by DannusMaximus » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:47 am

Manimal2878 wrote:
Browning 35 wrote:
Manimal2878 wrote:So they had pagers, but somehow couldn't use phones, payphones, or physically communicate with people in person?
Back then when someone was out and about and on the road the only way to get ahold of them was to page them.

If they didn't have a pager and they'd left their house or work for the evening you were SOL unless you knew where they were going.

Sure they could use the phone to call you, but how would they know that you were trying to contact them? Telepathy? Smoke signals? That's where the beeper came in.

Yeah, I was alive before the cell phone too. I still don't buy it.
Hell, I totally believe it. Your average person isn't really into contingencies for when their Plan A falls apart (for example, it may or may not amaze you how often people admit they don't know another way to get to where they're going if we have their normal road shut down for some reason), and I suspect your average street level drug dealer or addict is REALLY up a creek as far as coming up with quick alternative solutions in the case of an emergency. Calm, sober consideration of alternatives and planning ahead is not a hallmark of this type of person. If they normally use a pager, and the pager suddenly doesn't work, their head explodes.

True story time. My truck had shut down a street one Sunday morning for a half-marathon route that was winding through our section of the city. A lady stopped her car and came up to me and proceeded to chew my ass to a bloody rag because she couldn't drive down her normal street and get into the parking lot of the flower shop where she worked. She was ranting about losing her job, suing the city (and me in particular since I wouldn't make an exception and let her drive through the crowd of runners to get where she was going), yadda yadda. I waited until she was done venting and then pointed out that, since the flower shop was only about two blocks away, she could park in the accessible grocery store parking lot across the street from her shop and walk across the street to work, then come back and get her car when the runners had passed. She stood there, uncomprehending and slack-jawed, barked something about what a condescending smart-ass I was and peeled away. Not sure if she ever got to work or not. I think she genuinely represents the average person in my city - - actually, since she had a job she's probably what I would consider an upper-tier citizen.

I think full blown societal crazy train would take a while, and it may never happen, but the rise of a 'raider' culture of violence and robbery would be measured in hours and days if there was no end to the disaster in sight.
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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:54 am

Manimal2878 wrote:
Browning 35 wrote:
Manimal2878 wrote:So they had pagers, but somehow couldn't use phones, payphones, or physically communicate with people in person?
Back then when someone was out and about and on the road the only way to get ahold of them was to page them.

If they didn't have a pager and they'd left their house or work for the evening you were SOL unless you knew where they were going.

Sure they could use the phone to call you, but how would they know that you were trying to contact them? Telepathy? Smoke signals? That's where the beeper came in.

Yeah, I was alive before the cell phone too. I still don't buy it.
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Mikeyboy
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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Mikeyboy » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:14 am

ineffableone wrote:
Browning 35 wrote:Lord Cameron of Dillington, head of the UK’s Countryside Agency stated that civilization is only '9 meals away from anarchy' ...meaning that the average grocery store where we now hunt and gather, only carries a 3 day inventory.

The way I figure it most people have about 2-3 weeks worth of food in their cabinets if you're counting the enchilada aside and the two year old pinto beans in the back that's gathered dust, so when that runs out then it's 3 days. So my estimate is roughly 3 weeks to a month before people start sprouting horns and fangs.

For some taking from others has become a lifestyle and they of course will start immediately, I don't think that'll hold true for the majority of people though. I think it'll take a bit longer before the mask of normalcy slips off completely.
I think the OP is talking about going further than just raiding for food, or other similar expected behavior.

I think, and correct me if I am wrong Mikeyboy, this thread is about going full blown wacko, not just survival instincts.

Things like going cannibal, or making sculptures out of dead bodies (I know someone who was discharged from the military when he did this in Viet Nam), or harems of underage children, or other things we consider big time culture taboos. Not the basic don't steal, but the biggies that are almost universal in people's distaste of them. Insest, necrophilia, bestiality are the common ones that come to mind along with cannibalism.

Honestly it is hard for me to even think what weird crap someone might end up doing, I guess that is a good sign I am not prone to being one to do the weird crap, LOL.
Yep , I'm talking scary wacko.

I can see a situation where people good, logical people are forced to do taboo things in order to survive. The Donner party stuck in a snowy pass, or the Rugby player stuck in the Andes made a hard yet logical choice to eat human flesh. Same with people stealing and killing in order to survive. Things like war, famine, and chaos are going to make most people do what they have to do to survive. 3 Days to anarchy makes a lot of sense.

However when does things get unusually cruel, bizarre, and illogical. When do people kill for sport, when does the abusive genocide start, torturing and raping for fun, when does the Shirtless guy wearing the hockey mask shows up at the front gate saying they will kill every man, woman and child? When Nelson Mandela died, I was PO'ed that Winnie Mandela was still around. When her husband was in prison, she took on the practices of Necklacing her opponents. Basically putting a tire on a bound person's neck, filling it with some gasoline, and setting it on fire. I mean, you want the guy dead, just shoot them in the head and call it done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necklacing

I would think no matter how bad it gets I'm one of the good guys. I would try my hardest to not kill non-combatants. If it came down to it for some reason, I would execute someone quickly and humanely. Don't get me wrong, if someone is holding my wife and kids hostage, I'm torturing the crap out of the enemy guy who know that location, but I'm not going to randomly torture, rape and pillage everyone I run into. I would also think if I was a young soldier in Nazi Germany, and I was told that I had to kill unarmed men, women, and children in a concentration camp, I would go AWOL.

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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Browning 35 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:20 am

Manimal2878 wrote:Yeah, I was alive before the cell phone too. I still don't buy it.
Ok, wasn't sure how old you are.

I'm not really sure what there is to 'buy', if you take a cell phone, beeper or some electronic device out of the equation then the person wouldn't know that the other person was trying to reach them if they're away from their home or work phone. That's just a fact. :Shrug

For instance in Fire/EMS they still use pagers to a large degree despite having portable radios, the Nextel for the truck and your personal cell phones. That's generally how you get much of your call info. There are multiple redundant ways of contacting that crew.

Okay, so we jump in our time machine and go back in time and take the cell phones, the Nextel and the pagers out of the equation (they don't exist yet). Q : If Peggy Sue the dispatcher wants to send Smith and Jones on a 911 call and she can't contact them on the radio what means of communication is she left with (if she can't contact them by radio)?

A : None. Short of going out to their location in another vehicle there's no other way of contacting them.
DannusMaximus wrote:Hell, I totally believe it. Your average person isn't really into contingencies for when their Plan A falls apart (for example, it may or may not amaze you how often people admit they don't know another way to get to where they're going if we have their normal road shut down for some reason), and I suspect your average street level drug dealer or addict is REALLY up a creek as far as coming up with quick alternative solutions in the case of an emergency. Calm, sober consideration of alternatives and planning ahead is not a hallmark of this type of person. If they normally use a pager, and the pager suddenly doesn't work, their head explodes.

True story time. My truck had shut down a street one Sunday morning for a half-marathon route that was winding through our section of the city. A lady stopped her car and came up to me and proceeded to chew my ass to a bloody rag because she couldn't drive down her normal street and get into the parking lot of the flower shop where she worked. She was ranting about losing her job, suing the city (and me in particular since I wouldn't make an exception and let her drive through the crowd of runners to get where she was going), yadda yadda. I waited until she was done venting and then pointed out that, since the flower shop was only about two blocks away, she could park in the accessible grocery store parking lot across the street from her shop and walk across the street to work, then come back and get her car when the runners had passed. She stood there, uncomprehending and slack-jawed, barked something about what a condescending smart-ass I was and peeled away. Not sure if she ever got to work or not. I think she genuinely represents the average person in my city - - actually, since she had a job she's probably what I would consider an upper-tier citizen.
Yeah, part of this is exactly what I'm talking about.

People are creatures of habit and they get used to doing things a certain way. Throw them out of the routine and many honestly don't know what to do.
Mikeyboy wrote:Yep , I'm talking scary wacko.

I can see a situation where people good, logical people are forced to do taboo things in order to survive. The Donner party stuck in a snowy pass, or the Rugby player stuck in the Andes made a hard yet logical choice to eat human flesh. Same with people stealing and killing in order to survive. Things like war, famine, and chaos are going to make most people do what they have to do to survive. 3 Days to anarchy makes a lot of sense.
I see where you're going with this and I'd have to disagree as to the similarities in bold. To me there's a great difference in doing something taboo (such as eating people who are already dead) and violently victimizing others.

In situations where it becomes difficult to survive some people might take the easy way out and immediately start to prey upon others. However I think that the vast majority would exhaust every resource at their disposal to avoid starving to death rather than turning into some kind of monster.

As an example I watched that movie 'Impossible' with Ewan McGregor and Naomi Watts yesterday, take that little 3 year old boy that Naomi Watts and her son found. Her son didn't want to go over and help him. Her son thought that he might be a drain on their resources and hinder their chances of survival. However despite having a punctured lung and having her back left leg flapped open she went over there anyway, got the little boy and brought him along.

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In every disaster that's ever happened you're going to see examples of regular people doing things like that. They're often going to help others without them receiving any real benefit in doing so and sometimes putting a drain on their resources and limiting their own chances for survival. It's just the right thing to do.

There seems to be a limit to that help, but many people will still help others to some degree even at risk to themselves.

So I partially agree with what you're saying, but I disagree somewhat as well.
Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Manimal2878 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:05 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
Manimal2878 wrote:
Browning 35 wrote:
Manimal2878 wrote:So they had pagers, but somehow couldn't use phones, payphones, or physically communicate with people in person?
Back then when someone was out and about and on the road the only way to get ahold of them was to page them.

If they didn't have a pager and they'd left their house or work for the evening you were SOL unless you knew where they were going.

Sure they could use the phone to call you, but how would they know that you were trying to contact them? Telepathy? Smoke signals? That's where the beeper came in.

Yeah, I was alive before the cell phone too. I still don't buy it.
Dealers don't give out home phone numbers.
Exactly, because they stand on the street corner.

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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Manimal2878 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:08 am

I don' t buy that in a mere 12 hours lack of pager service completely eliminated a city's access to drugs and thrust the city into chaos.

I just don't think pagers we're ever as ubiquitous as cell phones are today.

I'll have to review 80s era Miami Vice, mAybe I'll change my mind.
Last edited by Manimal2878 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by Browning 35 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:25 am

Manimal2878 wrote:I don' t buy that in a mere 12 hours lack of pager service completely eliminated a cities access to drugs and thrust the city into chaos.
On that part I figured that it was somewhat of an exaggeration and that they had some difficulties communicating, delayed response times and things of that nature.

Not that the city plunged into total darkness, people running around like chickens with their heads cut off, that dogs were mating with cats and that there was total anarchy.
Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

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Re: How crazy will people get and how long will it take

Post by feedthedog » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:31 am

LastBoyScout wrote:
Three days without food is true but try 24 hours without drugs and when it is not just in one area like Katrina or the LA riots. That’s when the zombies will come out.

People in the country will watch it on TV just like Katrina or the LA riots till in knocks on their doors.

LastBoyScout
I totally don't buy any part of this, and its built on pretty specious stereotypes.

A very small portion of the population has a drug problem. People with drug problems are not necessarily violent psychopaths, they are usually just normal folks with a disease. The city is not an inherently more dangerous place with worse people than the countryside.

And Katrina is something of a case study on real vs. imagined threats. Our perceived view on threats seems to be a lot higher than the reality.

"To assemble a picture of crime - real and perceived - The New York Times interviewed dozens of evacuees in four cities, police officers, medical workers and city officials.What became clear is that the rumor of crime often played a powerful role in the emergency response.

Paramedics were barred from entering Slidell, across Lake Pontchartrain from New Orleans, for nearly 10 hours based on a state trooper's report that a mob of armed people had commandeered boats. It turned out to be two men escaping from their flooded streets, said Farol Champlin, a paramedic.

National Guard troops were sent to rescue a St. Bernard's Parish deputy sheriff who radioed for help, saying he was pinned down by a sniper. The troops surrounded the area. The shots turned out to be the relief valve on a gas tank that popped open every few minutes, according to Lieutenant General Ron Mason of the Kansas National Guard.

"It's part of human nature," Mason said. "When you get one or two reports, it echoes around the community."

During six days when the Superdome was used as a shelter, the chief of the New Orleans Police Department's sex crime unit, Lieutenant David Benelli, said he and his officers lived inside the dome and investigated every rumor of rape or atrocity. In the end, they made two arrests for attempted sexual assault, and concluded that the other attacks had not happened.

"I think it was urban myth," Benelli said."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/29/world ... d=all&_r=0

The world is made of mostly good and normal people. They may steal TVs and food, but that doesn't mean that they are going to turn into monsters.

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