If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by Kommander » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:48 pm

Just a thought but the local news seems to have no issue discussing what local guard units deploying and returning.
Why must all the hoops be on fire?

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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by raptor » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:55 pm

Even the US Army announces it.


http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/10/a ... ed-100312/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by Stercutus » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:59 pm

Kommander wrote:Just a thought but the local news seems to have no issue discussing what local guard units deploying and returning.
All True, but I know of no Ranger Battalions in the National Guard. There is no 109th Ranger unit. It is all a bunch of :words: Going to Ranger school does not put one in a BN either.

Ranger Bns are special operations forces and don't issue a press release for every deployment.
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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by Kommander » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:11 pm

Yea I thought of the whole "SOCOM" thing after I posted.
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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by Dawgboy » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:47 pm

TN-Shooter wrote:
Rev wrote:The real question would be why Iran would nuke Israel. I can not see how that would benefit them.
It's a religious war that has been going on since biblical times. In there minds anything they do to aggravate Israel is beneficial.
Actually, historically this is completely incorrect, and Iranian Jews have historically been treated very well, as were Jews throughout the Ottoman Turkish Empire. All this current mess in the Mideast started with the Sykes-Picot agreement in 1916, when the french and the Brits signed a treaty on how to divide up the soon to be conquered Ottoman Arab lands of present day Iraq, Iran, Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Kuwait, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia.

This arbitrary line drawing did not take into account the ethnic and tribal differences and traditional borders, and really messed things up bad.

You should read about it if you want to understand at all, why the mideast is such a messed up place right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%8 ... _Agreement
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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by Stercutus » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:52 pm

Dawgboy wrote:
TN-Shooter wrote:
Rev wrote:The real question would be why Iran would nuke Israel. I can not see how that would benefit them.
It's a religious war that has been going on since biblical times. In there minds anything they do to aggravate Israel is beneficial.
Actually, historically this is completely incorrect, and Iranian Jews have historically been treated very well, as were Jews throughout the Ottoman Turkish Empire. All this current mess in the Mideast started with the Sykes-Picot agreement in 1916, when the french and the Brits signed a treaty on how to divide up the soon to be conquered Ottoman Arab lands of present day Iraq, Iran, Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Kuwait, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia.

This arbitrary line drawing did not take into account the ethnic and tribal differences and traditional borders, and really messed things up bad.

You should read about it if you want to understand at all, why the mideast is such a messed up place right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%8 ... _Agreement
Is that what you would do?

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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by Dawgboy » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:04 pm

No,Blacksmith, that is not "What I would do". My point was that if you don't know(Not you personally, You are pretty bright in my estimation) the underlying facts of how the mideast came to be what it is, you can never really say anything accurate about what can be done to defuse the Situation.

Also, I wanted to correct the mis-statement that this is a religious war from "biblical times". That is patently false, and Jews, Muslims, and Christians lived peacefully together all over the mid east for many hundreds of years. It was only when the Ottoman Empire fell apart with the end of WW I that the current situation developed.

What I would do, is go buy every single drop of fuel I could get immediately, as it's hard to pump oil out of an irradiated mideast, and prices are going to skyrocket before the shortages hit...
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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by phil_in_cs » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:13 pm

This thread is about what you might do, or how you would prep for, a war between Israel and Iraq. Why they might, what the histories are, etc, are topics for discussion elsewhere.
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:25 pm

Example: If there is a destabilization of the middle east involving nuclear exchange, the there will be a disruption in oil. To prepare against this, I have invested in propane heating and electricity in lieu of oil. I am also looking into a propane injection or replacement for my car to help offset fuel costs. I suggest increasing monetary savings and looking at cutting vehicular travel in favor of bicycle or foot traffic, simplifying routes, and possibly (for long distance commuters) looking at the cost/benefit ratio and figuring out at what point a lower-paying job requiring less travel would "bring home" more than a higher paying job further away and looking at potential positions of this type.

Caveat: I have not actually invested anything in a propane kit for my car (though I know at what point the kit+propane would be cheaper than paying for straight diesel) but dropped that as an example of how to behave and what this thread is about. Hope this helps some folks.
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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by NamelessStain » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:58 pm

Blacksmith wrote:
Ranger Bns are special operations forces and don't issue a press release for every deployment.
Bingo! If you see me sometime Blacksmith, I'll buy you a beer. :clap: Most people didn't know SEALS existed, until someone slipped and talked about it. A very few knew about Team 6, until someone opened their mouth about them. The genie NEVER goes back in the bottle.

Back on topic.

Doc has a bunch of valid points (damn I hate admitting it) but he also took it to a somewhat extreme level (finding a job isn't always easy).

If oil prices shoot up and gas prices follow, a friend and I have carpooling plans. We work within about 3/4 of a mile of each other. I've also looked into a 250cc motorcycle that gets 60+ mpg. Basically take all your plans for a peak oil scenario and apply them if a middle east war breaks out. Yes, it could potentially collapse a US economy, but I don't think it would. We as a nation have pulled together in times of hardship.

How many of us remember the 70s oil embargo? It truely changed us as a nation. And that would be mild in my opinion compared to a middle east war.
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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:11 pm

I just said looking. I had a friend do this: he worked in orlando and lived abotu 45 minutes away (without traffic.) Gas went upo about $1 per gallon rather quickly, and he did soem math and realzied that he was losing money by not taking a slightly lower paying position nearer to his house. It's worth the math, if you find yourself in such a situation.
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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by Stercutus » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:32 pm

NamelessStain wrote:
Blacksmith wrote:
Ranger Bns are special operations forces and don't issue a press release for every deployment.
Bingo! If you see me sometime Blacksmith, I'll buy you a beer. :clap: Most people didn't know SEALS existed, until someone slipped and talked about it. A very few knew about Team 6, until someone opened their mouth about them. The genie NEVER goes back in the bottle.

Back on topic.

Doc has a bunch of valid points (damn I hate admitting it) but he also took it to a somewhat extreme level (finding a job isn't always easy).

If oil prices shoot up and gas prices follow, a friend and I have carpooling plans. We work within about 3/4 of a mile of each other. I've also looked into a 250cc motorcycle that gets 60+ mpg. Basically take all your plans for a peak oil scenario and apply them if a middle east war breaks out. Yes, it could potentially collapse a US economy, but I don't think it would. We as a nation have pulled together in times of hardship.

How many of us remember the 70s oil embargo? It truely changed us as a nation. And that would be mild in my opinion compared to a middle east war.
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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by RickOShea » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:46 pm

raptor wrote:
Blacksmith wrote: - Israel has never tested a bomb, so it is a complete guess if they even have one.

In 1979 the Vela Incident may have been a joint Israeli/South African nuclear test. At the time SA was an international pariah due to SA's policy of apartheid. SA and Israel jointly developed several weapon systems over the decades.

Both countries of course denied any link...assuming of course it actually was a nuclear test. :?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vela_Incident" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I thought I remembered reading something about a joint test, down by the Antarctic.

Also, back during the opening days of the Yom Kippur war, when it looked like Israel may be overrun, didn't Israel's nuclear units go on full alert?

I seem to recall that Henry Kissinger was dragging his feet on resupplying the beleaguered IDF, until one of our SR-71's radiation detectors went off as it flew over an Israeli Air Force base that had several F-4s being hot-refueled on the runways.
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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by DarkAxel » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:36 pm

My main fears if Iran decides to nuke Islrael is 1) A nuke is smuggled into Israel and detonated by Hezbollah or another regional proxy Non-state organization, and another is smuggled into the Untied States and used to try to blackmail the FedGov, 2)Iran overtly nukes Israel and uses proxies to threaten the US, 3)Iran overtly threatens the US after nuking Israel, or 4)Iran or a proxy detonates nukes on US soil.
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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by JayOlliver » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:37 am

MAD - Mutally Assured Destruction

It's what kept Russia and US from Nuking each other in the Cold War ... Russia wouldn't attack the US because the US had a guaranteed second strike capability ... You nuke us ... We nuke you ...

I don't think Iran would be that stupid ... They know Israel have a nuclear arsenal and would be prepare to use it ... More likely Iran would try and provide weapons to terrorist groups with the intention of hitting targets that Iran agreed on ...

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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by RickOShea » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:45 am

Post deleted for getting off topic.
Last edited by RickOShea on Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by phil_in_cs » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:17 am

this thread is about what you would do if it happens, not speculation about the likelyhood or motivations.
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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by maxisback » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:43 am

The unfortunate downside here is that Israel no longer has a 'Sampson Complex' (i.e. destroy the enemy) They have a Masada Complex(if we die, we're taking the world with us). Don't know about an SR-71 picking up radiation from any IAF airfields, but I'd read that a conversation in 1973 during the desperate days of the Yom Kippur War, when the Syrians were about to take the heights, involving the Prime Minister and the head of the IDF, mentioned arming the "Doomsday Weapon".

In the event of a nuclear detonation over either Israel or Iran, I would assume it's the first strike of what would ultimately become the 3rd World War. I would assume immediate escalation, and that every world population center was next on the list. I would abandon my immediate plans for the future, and get home. Load my BOV with all it can carry, especially the dosimeters and Rad survey meter, and proceed to my bug out location. Dig, dig, dig. Whether or not the World's power's could contain the mess, my plan is the same. Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

I live near a major Pacific port. A prime target. It would be GOOD time.

Just my 0.02 worth. Thoughts?
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If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by Justin Appleseed » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:12 am

Doc Torr wrote:Example: If there is a destabilization of the middle east involving nuclear exchange, the there will be a disruption in oil. To prepare against this, I have invested in propane heating and electricity in lieu of oil. I am also looking into a propane injection or replacement for my car to help offset fuel costs. I suggest increasing monetary savings and looking at cutting vehicular travel in favor of bicycle or foot traffic, simplifying routes, and possibly (for long distance commuters) looking at the cost/benefit ratio and figuring out at what point a lower-paying job requiring less travel would "bring home" more than a higher paying job further away and looking at potential positions of this type.

Caveat: I have not actually invested anything in a propane kit for my car (though I know at what point the kit+propane would be cheaper than paying for straight diesel) but dropped that as an example of how to behave and what this thread is about. Hope this helps some folks.
Texas alone has 200+ years worth of oil and natural gas reserves on privet land, figure in offshore oil, Canada, Alaska, and a few other states... North America could be energy independent...

I could write all night on how everything could turn out... Simply put.. Call it what you want, but if your heart isn't right with God, and your left behind, then you better be ready for the ensuing chaos.

I for one won't be here when it happens!

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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by ZombieKillingGeek » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:38 am

kickback wrote:I have heard and read various sources that if Israel is nuked (say 1 nuke on Tel Aviv), that the Israel fail safe plan is to nuke every Muslim Capital on the planet and various Muslim large cities.
Israel would not nuke 50 Muslim cities because they would turn a conflict between 2 countries into a conflict between Israel and every Muslim on the planet along with many of their own citizens. And they are vastly outnumbered. They would also immediately lose all of their allies and become the enemy of every state on the planet. Not gonna happen.

Now could a couple of nukes go off and have a larger regional conflict that ultimately results in some more nukes, possibly, but also unlikely. Cooler heads have prevailed so far and even China and Russia aren't enamored with Iran having a nuclear weapon, so I wouldn't bet on it.

I am not overly concerned about matter blocking out the sun, we have had volcanic eruptions that put much more stuff in the atmosphere and we survived (those of us who weren't vaporized at least).

As for nuclear radiation, if it happens in the middle east, I would be concerned about the middle east. America is not likely to get an incredible dose of radiation. It would raise the probability of getting cancer a little, but it isn't like if you go outside you are going to die. Hell, I just watch a documentary about survivors of Hiroshima and those people were in the thick of it and got burned by the flash and they are still kicking half a century later. Hiroshima and Nagasaki have thousands of people living in them right where the bombs hit. The people in Fukashima who had to walk around a partially melted down nuclear reactor didn't die of radiation sickness.

Honestly, I would be more afraid of bio attacks than nuclear attacks. Nukes have a devastating effect on the immediate area, but unless there is a total nuclear holocaust, the threat is blown way out of proportion. According to Wikipedia there have been over 2000 nuclear tests. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_test" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; And that is on Wikipedia so it must be true.

I am to lazy to find a more reliable source, so lets assume there have been 2,000 nuclear detonations. Back of the envelope calculation says that is around 30 nuclear detonations per year for the last 66 years, another 50 ain't gonna break the bank and tip us over a scale and cause nuclear winter. Hell maybe a little nuclear winter will help us cancel out global warming. I have a better chance of getting cancer from second hand smoke or the radon in my house than a few nukes half a world away.

Side note (I don't like nuclear bombs nor do I endorse their usage. My mannerisms are how I try to keep things in perspective. I sincerely hope cooler heads prevail. Please deposit all hate mail directly in the complaint box, AKA trash can.)

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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by ZombieKillingGeek » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:46 am

Justin Appleseed wrote: Texas alone has 200+ years worth of oil and natural gas reserves on privet land, figure in offshore oil, Canada, Alaska, and a few other states... North America could be energy independent...
I don't know where you got that number but it is at least misleading. Maybe if you cut Texas off from the rest of the country, they had enough oil and natural gas for themselves for 200+ years, but I doubt even that. As a country we are looking at a max of 100 years (and that is very optimistic), at current usage rates (they keep going up, so it will be less) We could be energy independent in the next 15 - 20 years if we wanted, but not for 200+ years based on oil and NG alone.

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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by Readphnx » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:47 am

Justin Appleseed wrote:
Doc Torr wrote:Example: If there is a destabilization of the middle east involving nuclear exchange, the there will be a disruption in oil. To prepare against this, I have invested in propane heating and electricity in lieu of oil. I am also looking into a propane injection or replacement for my car to help offset fuel costs. I suggest increasing monetary savings and looking at cutting vehicular travel in favor of bicycle or foot traffic, simplifying routes, and possibly (for long distance commuters) looking at the cost/benefit ratio and figuring out at what point a lower-paying job requiring less travel would "bring home" more than a higher paying job further away and looking at potential positions of this type.

Caveat: I have not actually invested anything in a propane kit for my car (though I know at what point the kit+propane would be cheaper than paying for straight diesel) but dropped that as an example of how to behave and what this thread is about. Hope this helps some folks.
Texas alone has 200+ years worth of oil and natural gas reserves on privet land, figure in offshore oil, Canada, Alaska, and a few other states... North America could be energy independent...

I could write all night on how everything could turn out... Simply put.. Call it what you want, but if your heart isn't right with God, and your left behind, then you better be ready for the ensuing chaos.

I for one won't be here when it happens!

Justin, um you should probably take a look at the forum rules.
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Re: If Iran Nukes Israel? and Israel Retaliates....

Post by phil_in_cs » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:46 am

locking this down; everyone wants to argue politics and not answer the question of wwyd if they start fighting over there.
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