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Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:47 pm
by prebans
I'd say that this could be a disaster.....

Mike

From http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/16/news/ec ... id=Popular

Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here
By Aaron Smith @CNNMoney September 16, 2011: 4:10 PM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg is worried that high U.S. unemployment could lead to the same kind of riots here that have swept through Europe and North Africa.

"You have a lot of kids graduating college, [who] can't find jobs," said Bloomberg, during his weekly radio show on Friday. "That's what happened in Cairo. That's what happened in Madrid. You don't want those kinds of riots here."

That was the mayor's response when asked about the poverty rate, which rose to 15.1% in 2010, its highest level since 1993, according to census data released Tuesday. About 46.2 million people are now living in poverty, 2.6 million more than last year.

"The public is not happy," he said. "The public knows there is something wrong in this country, and there is. The bottom line is that they're upset."

Riots have gripped various countries in European cities, including Athens and London, fueled by young people infuriated by high unemployment and austerity measures, which in some cases has led to looting. High unemployment among youth is also one of the driving forces behind the Arab Spring, as impoverished protestors in North Africa and the Middle East rose up against their heavy-handed governments.

"The damage to a generation that can't find jobs will go on for many, many years," said Bloomberg.

The mayor, an independent, criticized the partisan politics that have stymied progress in Congress, and the inability of Republicans and Democrats to compromise on ways to fix the economy.

"There is no overnight solution," he said."You look at the president's proposals. At least he's got some ideas on the table, whether you like those or not."

"The only way you solve this problems is that everybody pays a little more and everybody gets a little less," he added.

The economy added no jobs in August, according to the Labor Department, for the first time since February, 1945.

The unemployment rate is 9.1%, but many experts say that figure is misleading. They prefer to use the so-called underemployment rate, which includes people who have given up their search for jobs as well as people who want to work full-time but are forced to work part-time.

The underemployment rate is 16.2%.

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:00 pm
by J.C.
Its only a matter of time.

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:27 pm
by dukman
I don't think high unemployment was a major factor in some of the rioting we have seen in the past year...

but as sporting event riots have shown us over the years, people don't need much of a reason to riot :roll:

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:35 pm
by stimpy321972
dukman wrote:I don't think high unemployment was a major factor in some of the rioting we have seen in the past year...

but as sporting event riots have shown us over the years, people don't need much of a reason to riot :roll:


Unemployment was probally not the major factor. I would say food prices exponentially rising would be more in line. As most of the population in those countries spend a significant part of their salary on basic food staples !!

In the USA though, if you don't have a job, eating can be a little trickier after a while. You can't run up your visa card forever, if you have one anyway. When a large amount people truly get hungry, there will be lots of problems !!

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:02 pm
by dynomike
Part of the reason riots have not occurred is (I feel) welfare assistance is still somewhat easy to get ahold. Congress will be forced to cut the budget significantly, including food stamps (SNAP as they call it now), TANF, Medi-caid, etc. I think the boiling point is simply this: the day that poor families can no longer access government assistance to feed its children in any reasonable capacity will trigger riots that make the sixties look like play time in the sand box.

Bottom line: Hunger is a very good motivator. Hunger + Children = SHTF.

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:05 pm
by J.C.
Unemployment, especially of youth, was cited in a lot of the reporting on the riots in Britain and in Greece. Long-term unemployment is extremely demoralizing regardless of welfare measures ... you get a lot of young people with too much time on their hands, resentment of the state and little to lose and you have the makings of trouble.

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:34 pm
by Lynxian
J.C. wrote:Unemployment, especially of youth, was cited in a lot of the reporting on the riots in Britain and in Greece. Long-term unemployment is extremely demoralizing regardless of welfare measures ... you get a lot of young people with too much time on their hands, resentment of the state and little to lose and you have the makings of trouble.
Actually, most of the London rioters were just criminal scum. We've all been unemployed at some point in our lives and it doesn't make us violent nor do any of us blame society and think it's a great idea to vent our anger by beating people up, smashing other people's property and getting a new flatscreen TV.

And just to back up how much of these London rioters were, in fact, criminal scum, here's a link to the BBC where the statistics regarding these low-lifes have been analyzed: Analysis: the riot data so far > Previous convictions.

And here's just a quote for those who don't want to read the entire article:
BBC wrote: The statisticians say that 45% of juveniles who have appeared have had no recorded criminal history. We've also found out that 73% of all of those brought before the courts have criminal histories. Each defendant with a criminal record has committed an average of 15 offences. Roughly a quarter of them have committed 10 or more offences and about 15% had between six and 10 crimes on their record. This is why Justice Secretary Ken Clarke says the figures vindicate his analysis that the offenders are a product of a penal system that has failed to turn them around.

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:57 pm
by TacAir
I believe one version of the quote is that "Revolution is three missed meals away"...

Science fiction authors Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle wrote in their 1977 cult book, Lucifer's Hammer, civilisation is "only three meals removed from savagery".

"Any society is only three square meals away from revolution" may have been said by Dumas (1802-1870) or Trotsky (1879-1940), with possible variations of the concept by Frederick Upham Adams (1896) or ancient Roman society (753 BC-1453 AD)

So the concept of hungry people making trouble has existed from the French Revolution - where the people attacked grain trainins coming into Paris to
the recent spate of issues in the Midle east - there were riots in 2008, this time "someone" was ready to take advantage.

As for the good Mayor, maybe he should stick to studing a bit of wisdom I ignore
"Never pass up an opportunuty to keep your mouth shut."

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:31 pm
by raptor
I would never say riots are out of the question, but I do not think there will be job riots in 2011 in the US. I could wrong but just because a billionaire who is also a politician says it is possible does not mean it is any more likely.

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:40 pm
by NoAm
raptor wrote:I would never say riots are out of the question, but I do not think there will be job riots in 2011 in the US. I could wrong but just because a billionaire who is also a politician says it is possible does not mean it is any more likely.
Agreed, (I will leave it at that, anything else would probably against forum rules) :wink:

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:42 pm
by Ableto
Think of it this way. Ppl are still getting welfare, but what if the welfare ended due to lack of funds or that you didnt meet the requirements due to new rules put in place due to a low budget. After a wile ppl wil get hungry and mad the government is not doing more to help. Due to the economy, ppl are not donating to food banks or churches, so this add more to the problem.

Just think of this as tinder waiting for a flame to set things ablaze. But then again if riots happen and businesses are destroyed all over, this will hurt even more because those businesses that where providing food will not have food to supply anymore or for a long time. So things downgrade even more and more.

Its a scary chain reaction no matter how you look at it, and the news media doesnt make things any better when they put ideas in the minds of ppl that have nothing better to do when trying to look for work and food.

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:36 am
by J.C.
Lynxian wrote: Actually, most of the London rioters were just criminal scum.
No doubt, but there have always been criminal scum. What precipitated the riots? What are the conditions that led to the riots happening this year, when they have not happened like this in the past?

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:54 pm
by DannusMaximus
In my AO, there appears to be a nearly 100% correlation between borderline or actual obesity and the posesssion of a Indiana SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) card. It seems to me that it will take a LONG time for the people in my area who are 'malnourished' to actually get so hungry that they will get off their couches and begin rioting, and if they DO I will very likely be able to outrun them... :roll:

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:12 pm
by Prepared American
America, the only place on earth where people in poverty are often morbidly obese. :|

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:54 pm
by Kevin108
I have a hard time believing anything that comes from him because of other stuff. I hope he's not right about the riots.

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:04 pm
by TDW586
Kevin108 wrote:I have a hard time believing anything that comes from him because of his anti-gun agenda. If he's right about the riots, anyone affected by them should have the best means to defend themselves - a right which he wants to deprive all of us of.


Dude...this is why we can't have nice things. Read the rules. No politics. Is that really so hard?

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:09 pm
by phil_in_cs
TDW586 wrote:
Kevin108 wrote:I have a hard time believing anything that comes from him because of his anti-gun agenda. If he's right about the riots, anyone affected by them should have the best means to defend themselves - a right which he wants to deprive all of us of.


Dude...this is why we can't have nice things. Read the rules. No politics. Is that really so hard?
^^^ What he said ^^^
http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 44&t=19895" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:42 pm
by Kevin108
I understand the rules but I don't understand why you think it's political. I didn't say I disliked him because of his party affiliations, the bills he's signed, etc. I reiterated a fact about him, and one that he's proud of.

Guns = political
Food stamps = not political

Got it.

Anyway, I'm the new guy here so I'll edit the above comment to err on the side of caution as I may like to stick around. You guys do the same?

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:08 pm
by duodecima
DannusMaximus wrote:In my AO, there appears to be a nearly 100% correlation between borderline or actual obesity and the posesssion of a Indiana SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) card. It seems to me that it will take a LONG time for the people in my area who are 'malnourished' to actually get so hungry that they will get off their couches and begin rioting, and if they DO I will very likely be able to outrun them... :roll:
Yowza. I totally believe it, where'd you see the data?

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:14 pm
by Valarius
raptor wrote:I would never say riots are out of the question, but I do not think there will be job riots in 2011 in the US. I could wrong but just because a billionaire who is also a politician says it is possible does not mean it is any more likely.
As do I.

Armed robberies, burglaries, counterfeiting, a lot of crimes associated with getting or making money have risen in Nevada. Rioting and looting is almost unheard of. People go with what works.

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:57 pm
by squinty
Prepared American wrote:America, the only place on earth where people in poverty are often morbidly obese. :|
Better nutrition costs a bit more, is a bit less inconvenient and you need a baseline education level to understand what is and isn't healthy.

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:58 pm
by DannusMaximus
duodecima wrote:
DannusMaximus wrote:In my AO, there appears to be a nearly 100% correlation between borderline or actual obesity and the posesssion of a Indiana SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) card. It seems to me that it will take a LONG time for the people in my area who are 'malnourished' to actually get so hungry that they will get off their couches and begin rioting, and if they DO I will very likely be able to outrun them... :roll:
Yowza. I totally believe it, where'd you see the data?
Anectdotal only, I doubt if there's a formal study out there. I base it on the fact that I almost exclusively grocery shop at 'poor' grocery stores (closest ones to my residence and my workplace), and everybody I see swiping a SNAP card is at least 20 pounds overweight, generally more like 50-100 pounds.

Actually, let me clarify that. There are also scarecrow skinny people who swipe these cards, and those folks also have every visual symptom of serious meth addiction (sores, dry mouth, stunningly bad hygiene - - there's a definite look with meth heads that can't be mistaken for anything else).

On a good note, though, I understand there's a thriving black market for SNAP cards in my city. Recipents will sell a SNAP card to somebody for 1/2 of the card value, which gets them cash in hand that can be used to buy smokes, drugs, booze, and other items that a SNAP card won't ring up for. The free market at work, baby! Come to think of it, I could totally incorporate that into my prepper strategies. $100 worth of food for $50? That's just smart prepping right there!

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:05 pm
by squinty
DannusMaximus wrote:
duodecima wrote:
DannusMaximus wrote:In my AO, there appears to be a nearly 100% correlation between borderline or actual obesity and the posesssion of a Indiana SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) card. It seems to me that it will take a LONG time for the people in my area who are 'malnourished' to actually get so hungry that they will get off their couches and begin rioting, and if they DO I will very likely be able to outrun them... :roll:
Yowza. I totally believe it, where'd you see the data?
Anectdotal only, I doubt if there's a formal study out there. I base it on the fact that I almost exclusively grocery shop at 'poor' grocery stores (closest ones to my residence and my workplace), and everybody I see swiping a SNAP card is at least 20 pounds overweight, generally more like 50-100 pounds.

Actually, let me clarify that. There are also scarecrow skinny people who swipe these cards, and those folks also have every visual symptom of serious meth addiction (sores, dry mouth, stunningly bad hygiene - - there's a definite look with meth heads that can't be mistaken for anything else).

On a good note, though, I understand there's a thriving black market for SNAP cards in my city. Recipents will sell a SNAP card to somebody for 1/2 of the card value, which gets them cash in hand that can be used to buy smokes, drugs, booze, and other items that a SNAP card won't ring up for. The free market at work, baby! Come to think of it, I could totally incorporate that into my prepper strategies. $100 worth of food for $50? That's just smart prepping right there!
:lol: I'd blue that last part. I'm pretty sure it's a federal crime to sell or buy SNAP cards. It's done here all the time, too - drug dealers will sometimes accept a full SNAP card in lieu of cash payment. There's a particular convenience store notorious for the owner buying up food cards, or straight up exchanging them for non-food items. Not swiping them just giving someone booze or other items and pocketing the card.
My .02 - saving $200 on the grocery bill ought to free up $200 to spend on the rest of the budget, while selling the food card at fifty cents on the dollar means your budget is now a hundred bucks smaller, and you still need to buy food. It benefits the purchaser, but it's an act of shortsighted dumbth on the seller's part.

Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:09 pm
by DannusMaximus
squinty wrote:
Prepared American wrote:America, the only place on earth where people in poverty are often morbidly obese. :|
Better nutrition costs a bit more, is a bit less convenient and you need a baseline education level to understand what is and isn't healthy.
Fixed that for you, I think.

I've heard that argument, as well, and it rings true in some cases. However, there are no 'food deserts' in my AO. Grocery stores are well spaced, and every grocery store (even the 'poor ones') has a selection of fresh produce and healthy foods that most people in most countries would go several lifetime without having access to. As far as costing more, that might be the case for fresh items, but canned and frozen fruits and vegetables have a high nutritional value, and the store brands are almost give away cheap if you look for sales. I believe issuance of a SNAP card or WIC card, or any other host of .gov freebies also comes with education on how to read labels, etc., but could be wrong on that.

Thing is, you have to be willing to move off your couch and look for sales. Cooking for your family IS less convenient than just going to McDonald's or giving your toddler a sippy cup full of Mountain Dew and a bag of potato chips for breakfast. You think I'm kidding about that diet combination? You would be wrong.