Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

[Liff]

All that has to happen for the "Occupy Wallstreet" protesters to go away is play Slayer. This time the hippie jam fest actually did happen where the corporate people can hear them.

[squinty]

I remember talking about how the Wall Street "day of rage" was a big fizzle. Not so much, now.
Politics - sorry, but it seems to me like the occupy Wall Street hippies and the Tea Party are mad about exactly the same things wrt the economy.

[DFWMTX]

Big fizzle? Maybe not. But still remains to see if they'll be effective in achieving anything beneficial. There's no defined goals for the OWS protestors, just angst. You can't get far with just angst, you need to have some goals or aims that are clearly defined.

[Kommander]

I remember talking about how the Wall Street "day of rage" was a big fizzle. Not so much, now.
Politics - sorry, but it seems to me like the occupy Wall Street hippies and the Tea Party are mad about exactly the same things wrt the economy.

We can't get too deep into it here but look into what each group thinks the role of the government should be and you will find some important differences.

[m ellis allen]

You can't get far with just angst,

the grunge music genre would say otherwise

ive asked friends that are actually in the protests what the hopeful outcomes will be and not two people said the same thing......im amazed that this has been going on for as long as it has without any clearly defined goals that are publicly known

[CaptBrainFreeze]

I think it's funny a protest MUST be against dems or reps. Since when do you have to be one or another to be pissed at the hosing we take everyday? And if it started hippy, so be it....not hippy anymore.

Just for the books, I'm not tea party, hippy (I'm kinda a Cartman about those), dem, or rep. I'm just a pissed off citizen. I can't go to NY, but I've been more than a pain in the ass to my reps by calling, emails etc.

To be honest I don't quite understand why this wasn't done in D.C. , why not Capitol Hill? I mean wtf wall street gonna do about jobs etc? Lol. Shakes my head.

[Kommander]

The people protesting in NY are vastly more angry with "Wall Street" than they are with the government.

[squinty]

I remember talking about how the Wall Street "day of rage" was a big fizzle. Not so much, now.
Politics - sorry, but it seems to me like the occupy Wall Street hippies and the Tea Party are mad about exactly the same things wrt the economy.

We can't get too deep into it here but look into what each group thinks the role of the government should be and you will find some important differences.

Not so sure. Both groups want to limit the intrusions of government into their personal lives, both groups (some might say paradoxically) want to preserve certain "safety net" entitlements. The Tea Party demonstrators famously chanted "Hands off my Medicare" - they weren't lobbying for the elimination of that entitlement, they just thought it wouldn't survive an expansion of federally funded healthcare. They never chanted "eliminate Medicare!" Both are furious about the bailout, furious about the shrinking middle class, furious about corporatism. There's a lunatic fringe on each side - birthers etc. on the right, PETA activists on the left - but I think the whole "role of government" disagreement is a canard. There is considerable overlap between both groups' core complaints, that mainly have to do with taxes being used to shore up the profits of huge corporations. There is a slight difference between which civil liberties each group gets most worked up about, but they're both upset about government defying limitations placed on it by the Bill of Rights.

The main argument would be about taxes, but then it's important how you frame the question. Both groups are angry about the excessive tax burden shouldered by the middle class in America.

Both are upset about outsourcing and the outflow of jobs, the downward pressure on wages, and the lwering of opportunity in the US.

I saw a sign once that said "Libertarianism is just Anarchism for Old People." As an Old Person now, I have to agree.

[TacAir]

You can't get far with just angst,

the grunge music genre would say otherwise

ive asked friends that are actually in the protests what the hopeful outcomes will be and not two people said the same thing......im amazed that this has been going on for as long as it has without any clearly defined goals that are publicly known

Do you find it odd that
A) these protests were discussed weeks ago - before anyone waved a sign - anywhere
B) no two 'protestors' seem to have a clue on what it is exaclty they are protesting
C) that Unions are now pouring money (donations) into the coffers of the non- organizers (follow the money, eh?)
D) The massive amount of National media coverage for so very few actual boots on the ground 'protestors'' (to now it has been nothing more than a handful)
E) And now the talk of how the protests are 'spreading like wildfire? We had a few kids show up here waving a sign or two, and the local TV covered it like the Second Coming.

Goodness.

I have to ask just who is pulling the strings, because they are - someone is pulling the strings....


I guess Robert Heinlein had it right all those years ago:
"You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity.”

Or- another favorite of mine:
You can say any foolish thing to a dog, and the dog will give you a look that says, "My God, you're right! I never would've thought of that!" - Sean Connery

[squinty]

The people protesting in NY are vastly more angry with "Wall Street" than they are with the government.

Well, for instance, if you're angry about the Bush/Obama (it straddled the election) "bailout," who are you angry at? Are you angry at the government or at "Wall Street?" The answer is: Yes.

If you're on the right of the political spectrum you call it socialism. If you're on the left you call it corporatism. But you're talking about similar things, and angry for similar reasons. A Venn Diagram of Tea Party issues and "occupy Wall Street" issues would have a lot of overlap.

I have just done what I know better than to do, I have committed politics for which I must apologize. I won't post anymore about it. I just wanted to point out that there's more unity among the American people than the political system would have you believe, and the unrest that's brewing isn't politically motivated. People of various political persuasions are up in arms about similar things.

[phil_in_cs]

We don't talk about political issues here. We talk about prepping, disasters, and how they effect us.

Discussing how the riots could effect you is legit. Discussing the probability of riots -v- peaceful demos is legit. Getting into the issues is not.

[Kommander]

We don't talk about political issues here. We talk about prepping, disasters, and how they effect us.

Discussing how the riots could effect you is legit. Discussing the probability of riots -v- peaceful demos is legit. Getting into the issues is not.

I would argue that understanding the motivations of both peaceful demonstrators and rioters can be quite important. However unless a mod wants to babysit the thread it would be far too easy to fall into a political debate so it's off to the PM mobile.

[squinty]

We don't talk about political issues here. We talk about prepping, disasters, and how they effect us.

Discussing how the riots could effect you is legit. Discussing the probability of riots -v- peaceful demos is legit. Getting into the issues is not.

I would argue that understanding the motivations of both peaceful demonstrators and rioters can be quite important. However unless a mod wants to babysit the thread it would be far to easy to fall into a political debate so it's off to the PM mobile.

(now has "Batman" tv series theme music stuck in head.)

[m ellis allen]

Do you find it odd that
A) these protests were discussed weeks ago - before anyone waved a sign - anywhere
B) no two 'protestors' seem to have a clue on what it is exaclty they are protesting
C) that Unions are now pouring money (donations) into the coffers of the non- organizers (follow the money, eh?)
D) The massive amount of National media coverage for so very few actual boots on the ground 'protestors'' (to now it has been nothing more than a handful)
E) And now the talk of how the protests are 'spreading like wildfire? We had a few kids show up here waving a sign or two, and the local TV covered it like the Second Coming.

Goodness.

i find all of that odd, and that is as far as i can discuss without violating forum rules or bringing out a tinfoil hat.

oh and a group of them started protesting in maine too

[jor-el]

We don't talk about political issues here. We talk about prepping, disasters, and how they effect us.

Discussing how the riots could effect you is legit. Discussing the probability of riots -v- peaceful demos is legit. Getting into the issues is not.

I would argue that understanding the motivations of both peaceful demonstrators and rioters can be quite important. However unless a mod wants to babysit the thread it would be far to easy to fall into a political debate so it's off to the PM mobile.

(now has "Batman" tv series theme music stuck in head.)

When given a choice between crossing a bridge legally on designated walkways, or illegally crossing on vehicle lanes to block citizen's vehicle traffic interfering with working Joe's commute home, many chose the illegal path. Way to help the middle class.

When I go down to Wall Street to monitor the protestor's actions, do I go planning to "brutalize"? Like I don't have better things to do.

Should I mention that having been to many, many anti-war rallies, the 2004 RNC convention, those 1199SEIU protests, and those Critical Masses, certain faces just serendipitously appear at these shindigs again and again, spreading cheer and bile for all?

These protests, now that mainstream unions are getting in on the deal, are almost certainly going to get uglier.

[ei8htx]

oh and a group of them started protesting in maine too

There's a bulletin for Portland in the "free speech" area at my college. When no one was looking I wrote on it "communists are ga"... oh, nevermind.

IMO the 2 movements are upset at the same problem, with radically different views on a solution.

[squinty]

We don't talk about political issues here. We talk about prepping, disasters, and how they effect us.

Discussing how the riots could effect you is legit. Discussing the probability of riots -v- peaceful demos is legit. Getting into the issues is not.

I would argue that understanding the motivations of both peaceful demonstrators and rioters can be quite important. However unless a mod wants to babysit the thread it would be far to easy to fall into a political debate so it's off to the PM mobile.

(now has "Batman" tv series theme music stuck in head.)

When given a choice between crossing a bridge legally on designated walkways, or illegally crossing on vehicle lanes to block citizen's vehicle traffic interfering with working Joe's commute home, many chose the illegal path. Way to help the middle class.

When I go down to Wall Street to monitor the protestor's actions, do I go planning to "brutalize"? Like I don't have better things to do.

Should I mention that having been to many, many anti-war rallies, the 2004 RNC convention, those 1199SEIU protests, and those Critical Masses, certain faces just serendipitously appear at these shindigs again and again, spreading cheer and bile for all?

These protests, now that mainstream unions are getting in on the deal, are almost certainly going to get uglier.

I agree %100 that they will get uglier. I didn't see anything in the quote tree you constructed accusing you of police brutality, or NYPD in general. Certainly such allegations have been flung around in other places, but I haven't read them in this thread, or on this board, and I've been silent on that issue.
So some of the same people who protested the war in 2004 are protesting now. OK.

Planning how to get to work when the streets are aswirl might be a legitimate topic. How does one commute through a chaotic city without getting swept up in the chaos?

[phil_in_cs]

We don't talk about political issues here. We talk about prepping, disasters, and how they effect us.

Discussing how the riots could effect you is legit. Discussing the probability of riots -v- peaceful demos is legit. Getting into the issues is not.

I would argue that understanding the motivations of both peaceful demonstrators and rioters can be quite important. However unless a mod wants to babysit the thread it would be far too easy to fall into a political debate so it's off to the PM mobile.

Exactly. I don't have time to stay here and read every post every minute. There are tons of places to discuss the motivations of the various parties if that's how you like to spend your time.

[dogbane]

They're coming to my town.

I follow the Occupy Charlotte FB page to see what the plans are, to check the numbers of people active on the page, see what the rhetoric is. The activity will begin on Saturday, they say, so they can build numbers for Tuesday when people return to work from the Columbus Day holiday. I'm paying attention to what outreach--or lack thereof--they are doing with the local community, with area political organizations, and so on. Based on the numbers of fans the page has and the lack of "likes" and comments, I'm expecting a mild display of displeasure and some chanting, but no real problems. If my opinion changes or soemthing unexpected occurs, I'll let you all know how it affected me, my commute, and my work day.

Interestingly, I haven't seen much press coverage here about it. I strolled down to the place where they are going to camp to get some camera shots beforehand. I chatted with a deputy sheriff who was walking that way. I asked him if the city and county were ready for the protesters. He said casually that it's their job to be ready for anything. I feel pretty good about the professionalism of the PD in Charlotte. They are well-trained, mostly, and community-oriented. I also respect and trust our Sheriff and city gov, all in all, to do right.

The main camp will be on the lawn at the Old City Hall, which is quite a pleasant place. The featured artwork in this place is a memorial for police officers who died in the line of duty. Across one street is the main police precinct. and across the other the Federal Reserve. map I work in that cluster of tall buildings around Trade and Tryon. There is additional space for public demonstrations at Marshall Park, where they filmed that scene from Homeland I posted pics of elsewhere. I see bathrooms as being an issue. I saw a homeless guy get ticketed the other day for public urination. The FB page mentions area restaurants where peopel can use bathrooms. That should get interesting for restaurant employees who have to clean and restock.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Chamber of Commerce gets all excited because now that we get a protest of our own, it's more proof that we are a "world class" city.

So from a prepper's standpoint: gather intel, know the area, anticipate actions of both officials and demonstrators. Plan accordingly depending on what you feel like putting up with. Me, I'm always looking through a camera lens when I'm out and about, so I hope to take some good photos.

And for any paranoid types out there, I mean to gather intel for making personal decisions, not to report to or on behalf of authorities.

[dogbane]

We don't talk about political issues here. We talk about prepping, disasters, and how they effect us.

Discussing how the riots could effect you is legit. Discussing the probability of riots -v- peaceful demos is legit. Getting into the issues is not.

I would argue that understanding the motivations of both peaceful demonstrators and rioters can be quite important. However unless a mod wants to babysit the thread it would be far too easy to fall into a political debate so it's off to the PM mobile.

Exactly. I don't have time to stay here and read every post every minute. There are tons of places to discuss the motivations of the various parties if that's how you like to spend your time.

I'll keep an eye on this thread as I can. Since we have the folks coming here, I'll probably keep posting my non-political accounts of events here. I don't think we need a dedicated "Occupy" thread, do we? Will this one suffice?

[ei8htx]

I'll keep an eye on this thread as I can. Since we have the folks coming here, I'll probably keep posting my non-political accounts of events here. I don't think we need a dedicated "Occupy" thread, do we? Will this one suffice?

The last one was locked. It was the Day of Rage/Occupy Wall St on 9/17 that's slowly evolved into this 3+ week protest

[dogbane]

I'll keep an eye on this thread as I can. Since we have the folks coming here, I'll probably keep posting my non-political accounts of events here. I don't think we need a dedicated "Occupy" thread, do we? Will this one suffice?

The last one was locked. It was the Day of Rage/Occupy Wall St on 9/17 that's slowly evolved into this 3+ week protest

Here: http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... &start=120" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That one fell apart into some bad prognostication.

[ninja-elbow]

Occupy PDX did'nt do much other than block mass transit thus making my commute home much longer than the average 40 minutes it already is. I am acquainted with some organizers in charge of some of the factions involved with protesting and they said to me, "a bad commute is a small price to pay for 1A rights and the practice of them."

My answer was that they are taking away from me, the common man that they are supposedly supporting and "on the front lines for", the only commodity I have worth anything to a man in my position - my time. Actions speak louder than words and all, so screw them; no sympathy or support from me.

Getting up earlier to catch an earlier bus so I can get to work on time in the morning.

[dogbane]

I contacted the group planning to "occupy" Charlotte to let them know that they shouldn't block bus transit. We'll see how they take the advice. The group here faces an ordinances prohibiting sleeping in public places, and park closures at night. They could run afoul of the law quickly. I'm planning alternate routes. You can see from the map of Charlotte that there are many paths in and out. They will have to become a huge crowd to be more than a nuisance. I'm going to use NASCAR Speed Street as my chaos benchmark. It brings 400,000 people in over the span of three days. Our city is accustomed to dealing with large crowds in a small area.