Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by palehorse1301 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:35 pm

raptor wrote:
Kommander wrote:The whole air and space thing was stupid and a good example of how to the public to write your group off as a bunch of kooks.
Yes that was simply grandstanding. Nothing more. It resulted in others being denied access to the museum when they closed it. That was plain wrong.
What'd they do, block the doors? I don't have access to much news here.

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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by raptor » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:42 pm

They were obnoxious.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44829459/ns ... pUML5vtzv8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
About 100 to 200 people arrived about 3 p.m. at the museum, said Smithsonian spokesperson John Gibbons.
Ann Wilcox, a lawyer working with Stop the Machine, said a 19-year-old woman from Madison, Wisc., was arrested by police. She paid a fine and was released later Saturday. Wilcox said the protesters went to the Air and Space museum to demonstrate against a military drone exhibit.

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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by ninja-elbow » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:12 am

As for riots, I do not think Portland will get one. Many of the provocateurs have been chased away. Being as we are a protesty city with many brands of activists, we are handling it the best way history has shown us how: Keep Portland Weird. Regardless of how I feel about them and their actions they (Occupy'ers) are doing the best they can to prevent violence of any kind. We, the citizens of this city just are able to work around protests but riots are very hard to work around. Some folks are advocating the cracking of heads but that just puts me, an innocent by-stander, in the sights of police and violent protesters alike. I do not like this and think I do not deserve it. I've been caught up in riots around here before and clouds of CS and armored police in masses of running people have proven to be really good at cracking many non-protester heads... costing the city millions more in law suites and hospital bills.

Right now the city is negotiating (seriously, like right now in a GA Meeting at the Elk Statue) with them to open up that street they took that seperates the 2 city block parks they have occupied so as to free them up for mass transit. Many bus lines, including mine, use that street to get people to work and home.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by NoAm » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:22 am

I hope this isn't going to be a new 'turn' that we see in the protests.
I believe most cities are trying to work with the protestors.

http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/ ... our-goals/

Meanwhile, in Asheville, I guess our occupy protest started on Saturday. The organizers are asking city council to waive the 10 p.m. curfew for this event. The coordinators are asking for an 'open-ended' permanent exemption. (I guess this idea was not accepted at the council meeting last night, saying there are previously reserved dates for the park.

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20 ... nav%7Chead

http://imageasheville.com/2011/10/occup ... e-day-one/

I guess my biggest concern, with a 24/7 demonstration, is the park becoming trashed/unsanitary (like we have seen in other areas of the country.)
All the $$$ spent in services (Police O.T., etc.)
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by raptor » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:32 am

The OccupyNOLA group is planning a second line parade this weekend. They can stay in Duncan Plaza as along as they like. The city could care less about them.

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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by TacAir » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:55 am

raptor wrote:The OccupyNOLA group is planning a second line parade this weekend. They can stay in Duncan Plaza as along as they like. The city could care less about them.
LOL

It is below freezing at night now. (reported to be 200) Some folks showed up at the local main square downtown, waved signs for a while, got cold, then went home.

The local news outlet covered it - the on-line story has 0 comments.. (Yawn)
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by dogbane » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:12 am

Still low-key and polite in Charlotte, which is very much like Charlotte. It might pick up when the weather gets nice.

I don't worry too much about recurring "blood of tyrants" rhetoric from the various points on the political spectrum. Any of us who have been involved with anything political for a while have seen how the opposition and media will highlight the crazies in our own ranks. I attended a Native-American led Columbus Day Quitcentennial event in 1992, and the media ignored the heartfelt and well-informed speeches of Indian leaders, historians, and anthropologists, and featured instead on the Eyewitless News the hairy Anglo radical activist smashing a television with a sledgehammer.

Angry people blow off steam at these kinds of things. I'll worry when words turn into actions.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by MVegas » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:15 pm

I do think the more extreme elements will remain marginal.....and I don't see most of the occupiers sticking around if things go ugly. However it does behoove us to keep our eyes open and our wits about us. They all (revolutions) start somewhere, and often seem benign. At first.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by Kommander » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:38 pm

I do worry what will happen when we are on month X of this and protesters have failed to accomplish any tangible goals.
Why must all the hoops be on fire?

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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by raptor » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:52 pm

Kommander wrote:I do worry what will happen when we are on month X of this and protesters have failed to accomplish any tangible goals.
You have to have goals to measure success. This way they can declare victory at any point and go home. No goals, no argument over success or failure.

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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by MVegas » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:22 pm

raptor wrote:
Kommander wrote:I do worry what will happen when we are on month X of this and protesters have failed to accomplish any tangible goals.
You have to have goals to measure success. This way they can declare victory at any point and go home. No goals, no argument over success or failure.
Agreed. However it can cut the other way too. Keeping success undefined means they can also go on "voicing dissatisfaction" forever.

ETA- If this thing survives very long past first frost, I'll be A) Shocked, and B) Reassessing it as any real threat to the status quo. If they're still out there in Manhattan and the other northern cities in January......
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by ninja-elbow » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:51 pm

A strange thought just crossed my mind. First a few points:

1) I have some friends and associates down there camping. I got pretty angry with them last weekend but they have been reaching out and one has admitted to marginalizing me and my opinion.

2) Some are seeing the light in how they are actually affecting the rest of us 99%ers and recognize the flaws in their actions.

3) Plenty of "go get 'ems" on FB and other net-based communicatin and networking mediums. No one is really "helping" them though.

There seems to be some frustration in camp. The GA tonight was rather heated (as has been stated by one friend of mine down there). There are some extremes - one side is pushing for more "fuck 'ems... we're doing something they will never understand!" while the other is realizing they are kind of screwing with people and this is not pushing their outreach and contact mission. Requests for support in food, hygiene, power, et al. are not coming through like they had hoped.

My vision:
To go down there one night and stay the night. I understand I would be skirting the law so I am looking at comments by city hall and will seek legal advice tomorrow. It has been alluded to that the city has suspended no camping in parks ordinances temporarily. It is not clear though. I will find out more soon.

Why would I do this? To experience an analogy of a refugee camp. Without the disaster, this may be the closest thing I can have in my city that would mimic conditions in a "camp" after some major disaster.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by ninja-elbow » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:20 am

Yeah, not going to go stay the night there now haha!

The city decided to unblock the chunk of Mainstreet that Occupy was holding. 6 got arrested. It's tense down there now. My bus went right through there this morning though and it was fun! We got our elk statue back!! That's one of my favorite pieces of public art we have in this city. I'm pretty happy. We got to look at "the guts" of the camp since Mainstreet goes right through them. Police were lining the street too.

ETA: Also, just confirmed with "legal" that it is still against city ordinance to camp downtown and action is being taken, slowly and with delegation, and it's riding on this ordinance. The ordinance was not suspended.

Some aspects of Occupy Portland have stated they are going to take back the section of Mainstreet lost this morning. Others have stated they gave back Mainstreet. :roll: Geez.

Thanks for the concern Raptor. :) I need cool heads like you sometimes.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by NoAm » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:43 am

Gotta LOVE Asheville :lol:
If council did approve a place for protesters, Asheville would be the first city in the country to do so.
Asheville City Council will make a final decision at the next meeting on October 25.
http://www2.wspa.com/news/2011/oct/12/a ... r-2547388/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This weekend will be interesting. The park they have chosen to place the protesters in, is the same park the "Drum Circle" folks occupy every weekend. It will be a HUGE party by Friday Night! :lol:


At least there will be LOTS of entertainment this weekend!
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by dogbane » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:59 am

Occupy Charlotte is dwindling, in disarray, and distrustful of the local media, who have been more obnoxious to the protesters than the proters have themselves been. They're still camped on the Old City Hall lawn across the street from the police headquarters. Basically, everything is calm here. The city appears to be indulging them at the moment.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by dogbane » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:51 pm

I went down to talk to the "Occupiers" today. The two guys I talked to were very nice and didn't seem interested in disruption but in awareness of their issues. They complained about biased local media coverage and said that so far the police and city officials had been very accomodating. One told me about meeting a bank exec wearing a 20-year pin from his employer who had just been laid off but couldn't join the protest due to a non-disparagement clause in his severance agreement. True or not, I don't know, but certainly plausible. I think as long as they don't block the streets or damage property, they will continue to be tolerated here.

One guy I talked to said he was unemployed, but that he gets by doing maintenance and repair work. Said he was leaving the protest for a couple of days to help a friend's mom move out of her foreclosed home in Statesville.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by ninja-elbow » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:20 pm

What's really kind of funny is reading this last night post GA meeting:
http://occupypdx.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Occupy Portland has reached the following agreement of the General Assembly through our process of modified consensus:

Occupy Portland will continue to use Main Street as a common space for meeting and community building, except for emergency vehicles, bicycles and the anti-war march on Saturday, October 15th.

We will initiate direct communication with transit and emergency service unions, as well as the community as a whole, to develop a long term plan that honors both the needs for accessible gathering space and the safety of the entire community.

This process will take effect as soon as a protocol is developed. A working group has been tasked with developing this protocol and will begin work immediately on reaching out to the communities mentioned. There will still be room for continued discussion about the use of Main Street. We encourage all members of the community to join us at our next General Assembly meeting by the Elk on Main Street at 7pm so you can participate in our process.

In addition, The General Assembly of Occupy Portland agreed upon the following
statement on October 12, 2011.

City Officials and the Portland Police have expressed concern that
Occupy Portland is endangering the lives and livelihoods of the people
of this city through our continued occupation of the section of Main
Street between City Hall and the Department of Justice downtown.

We, too, are concerned about the lives and livelihoods of the people
of Portland, as well as the safety of Occupy Portland. However, we
believe that a political and economic system controlled by the
wealthiest 1% is a greater and ever-present danger to the people of
Portland and across the world.

It has been claimed that our occupation of Main Street is slowing down
emergency vehicles and risking people’s lives. We acknowledge this
concern however, the real risk to people’s lives is the fact that 40
million Americans are without healthcare, 560,000 of whom are
Oregonians.

We occupy Main Street with them.

It has been claimed that our occupation of Main Street is interfering
with public transportation and inconveniencing Tri-Met workers. We
acknowledge this concern, however, the real threat to Tri-Met workers
is the millions of dollars in budget cuts, which are undermining the
wages and benefits of public employees and destroying our public
transportation system.

We occupy Main Street with them.

It has been claimed that our occupation of Main Street is keeping the
working people of Portland from getting to their jobs on time. We
acknowledge this concern, however, the threat to working people is an
exploitative economic system in which people find themselves with
growing levels of debt, unemployed, or stuck in low paying jobs
without benefits and virtually no control over their working
conditions or everyday lives.

We occupy Main Street with them.

We are the 99% and we occupy together.
...and then to see it get completely swept away this morning at 6am with only 6 geting arrested. It is like I have been thinking - a lot of self-agrandizing and marginalization of others "...because this is bigger than a few people's concerns..."
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by NoAm » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:32 pm

Looks like it might start getting interesting in NY. I hope this doesn't start getting ugly. :(

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/10/13/ ... up-friday/

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/c ... ti-park-fr
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by phil_in_cs » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:40 pm

dogbane wrote:They complained about biased local media coverage and said that so far the police and city officials had been very accomodating.
I'm curious what they thought was biased. Media tend to wander around to find the craziest/ugliest/prettiest/weirdest person they can find to interview, but that's just the nature of the media and the struggle for ratings and viewers attention.

In your area, if someone at the protest site said BofA executives needed to be executed and their heads put up on pikes, you can bet that would get on the air. 200 people with reasonable demands would not.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by Kommander » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:44 pm

I too liked how they totally dismissed the people trying to get to work as less important than their protest. If that kind of attitude becomes popular among this group no one is going to care if the cops go Kent State on them.
Why must all the hoops be on fire?

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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by ninja-elbow » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:47 pm

I am getting some credible reports that last night's General Assembly was very long, heated and tedious. The main topic was Mainstreet. Many people not occupying went to support (as the GAs are open to all) the opening of Maninstreet and others booed, talked over them or just ignored them. Polls taken by all the local TV news (spectrum of left-right) all show that "The City" does not support them and that the closing of Mainstreet was a major reason why.

Note: this weekend I was invited many times by Occupy-ers to come to the GAs and voice my concerns and opinions in which I answered, "No, it is clear my opinion does not matter and I am not going to go throw myself on your bonfire like that." It was said to me I was part of the problem by one of my associates and that I had a closed mind :roll:

Some of you may look into that though. Go to the GAs if they are open. Hopefully some of the other cities will see how Portland screwed it up for themselves. The majority stopped communicating with the Occupy-ers and went to city hall and said, "Open that street please." and they did as of 6am this morning. I'm telling you guys, going past the elk statue this morning was great, may not seem like a big deal but, as I have mentioned, it was a glorious feeling.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by dogbane » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:48 pm

phil_in_cs wrote:
dogbane wrote:They complained about biased local media coverage and said that so far the police and city officials had been very accomodating.
I'm curious what they thought was biased. Media tend to wander around to find the craziest/ugliest/prettiest/weirdest person they can find to interview, but that's just the nature of the media and the struggle for ratings and viewers attention.

In your area, if someone at the protest site said BofA executives needed to be executed and their heads put up on pikes, you can bet that would get on the air. 200 people with reasonable demands would not.
The criticism is that they show up for sound bites, misrepresent the people they interview (for example, the guy I talked to complained that an elected spokesman was referred to by the news channel as a "leader"), then take off again. I think the community has a right to complain, too, because the protesters showed up in October 1st and were briefly taped protesting, but their big meeting where they announced the coming occupation was not reported, so people in the city had no idea the "Occupation" was coming the following Saturday. Only those of us who were monitoring the alternative media had a clue.

My own experience with local news is similar. I was once interviewed as a "man on the street" and the reporter promoted me to an attorney because I told her I worked at a law firm.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by phil_in_cs » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:00 pm

dogbane wrote:The criticism is that they show up for sound bites, misrepresent the people they interview (for example, the guy I talked to complained that an elected spokesman was referred to by the news channel as a "leader"), then take off again. I think the community has a right to complain, too, because the protesters showed up in October 1st and were briefly taped protesting, but their big meeting where they announced the coming occupation was not reported, so people in the city had no idea the "Occupation" was coming the following Saturday. Only those of us who were monitoring the alternative media had a clue.

My own experience with local news is similar. I was once interviewed as a "man on the street" and the reporter promoted me to an attorney because I told her I worked at a law firm.
They are calling it 'bias' since it is currently directed at them, but the media treats all parties in a similar manner as you note. They misrepresent just about everyone that doesn't purchase advertising from them.

While protesting "big corporations", they might want to investigate who owns these media companies.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by dogbane » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:02 pm

My opinion is that there is more incompetence and laziness in reporting than actual bias.
Mostly not here anymore.

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