North Korea Saber Rattling

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Stercutus » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:58 pm

Action1: If RoK/allies DO NOT strike first, DPRK MAY strike.
Risk 1: IF DPRK strikes first, it will be with full capacity.

Action 2: IF RoK/allies strike preemptively, some DPRK capacity to strike MAY remain.
Risk 2: If DPRK retains any capacity, they WILL strike.
That goes into the equation. Any strike would have to be overwhelming enough to eliminate any nuclear response. One way to bring enough forces into theater for a strike of that size would involve China participating in the strike. Given all the crazy talk lately coming from the DPRK regime I would say it is possible they may talk the Chinese into it with all their belligerence. China is not interested in taking a great step backwards with NK.

We can't be too sure, after all, what do we really know what they have?

Most of there stuff is kept out of sight, and outside observers won't get a peek-in.
They don't need to see it. It is black box theory. Since NK has worked so hard to create perfect isolation and control everything nearly all inputs and outputs to the country are clearly observed. From that a reasonable approximation of capability can be discerned. High levels of confidence can be determined with great accuracy in statistical terms.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Mr. E. Monkey » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:17 pm

Blacksmith wrote:That goes into the equation.
Naturally, it's more involved, and there are more factors. I intended it as more of a deliberate oversimplification than as a detailed analysis. ;)

You make some very good points in the rest of your post.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/ ... 1S20130404" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by ZH10950 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:45 pm

Omerta wrote:can't we just nuke them and get it over with?
No!!!! Sadly, we must play the game to keep US military and civilian casualties to a minimum!!!

There are too many lives at stake. Innocent lives...

If it has to come to all out military action I'm 'somewhat' pleased to see the White House preparing for the worst and hoping for the best.

I say UN and US forces prepare for a worst case but ignore the little tyrant! :vmad: Choke him out until he taps out or one of his generals who is not a suicidal nut case disposes of him...

War is a struggle for numerical superiority. Yes, "we" will win but not without losses. If this can be handled internally or with China stepping up it would be better for everyone.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Megalith » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:19 am

Blacksmith wrote:
Action1: If RoK/allies DO NOT strike first, DPRK MAY strike.
Risk 1: IF DPRK strikes first, it will be with full capacity.

Action 2: IF RoK/allies strike preemptively, some DPRK capacity to strike MAY remain.
Risk 2: If DPRK retains any capacity, they WILL strike.
That goes into the equation. Any strike would have to be overwhelming enough to eliminate any nuclear response. One way to bring enough forces into theater for a strike of that size would involve China participating in the strike. Given all the crazy talk lately coming from the DPRK regime I would say it is possible they may talk the Chinese into it with all their belligerence. China is not interested in taking a great step backwards with NK.

We can't be too sure, after all, what do we really know what they have?

Most of there stuff is kept out of sight, and outside observers won't get a peek-in.
They don't need to see it. It is black box theory. Since NK has worked so hard to create perfect isolation and control everything nearly all inputs and outputs to the country are clearly observed. From that a reasonable approximation of capability can be discerned. High levels of confidence can be determined with great accuracy in statistical terms.
China will do no such thing, why on earth would they help the US make a client state on it's Borders? Plus it's got a defence pact with the DPRK -Hence why it joined in the first conflict-...

China is moving large amounts of gear towards the border, possible intervention force if NATO invades?

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by wee drop o' bush » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:42 am

ZH10950 wrote:
Omerta wrote:can't we just nuke them and get it over with?
No!!!! Sadly, we must play the game to keep US military and civilian casualties to a minimum!!!

There are too many lives at stake. Innocent lives...


If it has to come to all out military action I'm 'somewhat' pleased to see the White House preparing for the worst and hoping for the best.
Have to say I agree.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by pyratemime » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:23 am

Megalith wrote:
Blacksmith wrote:
Action1: If RoK/allies DO NOT strike first, DPRK MAY strike.
Risk 1: IF DPRK strikes first, it will be with full capacity.

Action 2: IF RoK/allies strike preemptively, some DPRK capacity to strike MAY remain.
Risk 2: If DPRK retains any capacity, they WILL strike.
That goes into the equation. Any strike would have to be overwhelming enough to eliminate any nuclear response. One way to bring enough forces into theater for a strike of that size would involve China participating in the strike. Given all the crazy talk lately coming from the DPRK regime I would say it is possible they may talk the Chinese into it with all their belligerence. China is not interested in taking a great step backwards with NK.

We can't be too sure, after all, what do we really know what they have?

Most of there stuff is kept out of sight, and outside observers won't get a peek-in.
They don't need to see it. It is black box theory. Since NK has worked so hard to create perfect isolation and control everything nearly all inputs and outputs to the country are clearly observed. From that a reasonable approximation of capability can be discerned. High levels of confidence can be determined with great accuracy in statistical terms.
China will do no such thing, why on earth would they help the US make a client state on it's Borders? Plus it's got a defence pact with the DPRK -Hence why it joined in the first conflict-...

China is moving large amounts of gear towards the border, possible intervention force if NATO invades?
I was watching an English language broadcast out of Beijing and the government spokesman was discussing the level of annoyance that Beijing is reaching with Pyonyang. I find it particularly interesting this was being said in English because to me that means the message is for world consumption not domestic. Perhaps China is playing a shell game but I don't see how it benefits them to send a message like that while telling the North Koreans privately they will back their play.

Talking this over with some of my students one of the more intriguing ideas is that the Chinese troops are at the border to prevent a wave of refugees from flooding north if an incident does happen.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by airballrad » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:33 am

pyratemime wrote:Talking this over with some of my students one of the more intriguing ideas is that the Chinese troops are at the border to prevent a wave of refugees from flooding north if an incident does happen.
That was my thought. If the DPRK is busy fighting actual battles, there may well be a lot of the populace who take advantage of the distraction to seek greener pastures.

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by wee drop o' bush » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:54 am

Off Topic (kind of) Are any of you US members upping your prepping/home security because of this current situation?
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by NamelessStain » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:08 am

wee drop o' bush wrote:Off Topic (kind of) Are any of you US members upping your prepping/home security because of this current situation?
I'm not.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Stercutus » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:13 am

China will do no such thing, why on earth would they help the US make a client state on it's Borders? Plus it's got a defence pact with the DPRK -Hence why it joined in the first conflict-...

China is moving large amounts of gear towards the border, possible intervention force if NATO invades?
Part of the problem is that NK thinks NATO will or even could invade. Even a cursory reading of the charter will show that is no way possible. Why would China help out SK/ US? That is a good question:

1- Money. These are China's trading partners. Exports/ Imports/ Total Trade/ Balance

European Union 356.0 211.2 567.2 +144.8
United States 324.5 122.2 446.7 +202.3
Hong Kong 268.0 15.5 283.5 +252.5
ASEAN 170.1 192.8 362.9 -22.7
Japan 148.3 194.6 342.9 -46.3
South Korea 82.9 162.7 245.6 -79.8
India 50.5 23.4 73.9 27.1
Russia 38.9 40.3 79.2 -1.4
Taiwan 35.1 124.9 160.0 -89.8

In an average month China sees more trade with the US than it sees with NK in decade. They get huge benefits from this. China loves it too. 30 years ago their people where right where the NK's are today. Life is better by several magnitudes in China these days and still improving. They have issues; but everyone has issues. Not to mention pissing off everyone else in the world they trade with by backing NK.

2- Client state /puppet state argument: It is a much more likely scenario that the US would hand over NK to China/ SK or let them have very strong influence such as the recent example of Iraq where Iran has more influence than the US over Iraqi affairs. The US has not the ways, means, desires or enthusiasm to try to do anything in NK post war. China will end up picking up the pieces. They know this so will get in early if war turns inevitable.

Another incorrect assumption by NK is that SK is a puppet state. China has figured out by now that they are not. If SK is not puppet state than NK never could be.

A united Korea under SK would be a much better trading partner and much more stable influence in the region. They could potentially see a doubling of trade in 3-5 years as NK gets unshackled. All this helps China.

If NK somehow pulled off the impossible and conquered SK the opposite would be true. They would lose billions in trade and have even more unstable state to deal with. If they nuke someone than it gets exponentially worse.

3- Defense Pacts: I know a lot of other countries that have had defense pacts in the past. WWI and WWII seem good examples of this. Syria and Jordan for example backed the US during the first Gulf War despite having the Baathist Stars on their flags. Defense pacts are meaningless and ultimately unenforceable. Back when China was communist of course they backed NK. These days not so much.

China has nothing to gain and everything to lose by backing NK insanity.
Off Topic (kind of) Are any of you US members upping your prepping/home security because of this current situation?
Not in any way that would effect most people here.

Edit: Ok, NATO could invade under the charter but NK would have to swing first and hit North America or Europe. If they do that though there won't be much left to invade though.
Last edited by Stercutus on Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Manliest » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:14 am

I don't see North Korea as a direct threat to my life here.
Given our collective lifestyles during the GWOT, I don't expect to see "hard times" like food or materials shortages, either.

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by nathat » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:50 am

Blacksmith wrote:
China will do no such thing, why on earth would they help the US make a client state on it's Borders? Plus it's got a defence pact with the DPRK -Hence why it joined in the first conflict-...

China is moving large amounts of gear towards the border, possible intervention force if NATO invades?
Part of the problem is that NK thinks NATO will or even could invade. Even a cursory reading of the charter will show that is no way possible. Why would China help out SK/ US? That is a good question:

1- Money. These are China's trading partners. Exports/ Imports/ Total Trade/ Balance

European Union 356.0 211.2 567.2 +144.8
United States 324.5 122.2 446.7 +202.3
Hong Kong 268.0 15.5 283.5 +252.5
ASEAN 170.1 192.8 362.9 -22.7
Japan 148.3 194.6 342.9 -46.3
South Korea 82.9 162.7 245.6 -79.8
India 50.5 23.4 73.9 27.1
Russia 38.9 40.3 79.2 -1.4
Taiwan 35.1 124.9 160.0 -89.8

In an average month China sees more trade with the US than it sees with NK in decade. They get huge benefits from this. China loves it too. 30 years ago their people where right where the NK's are today. Life is better by several magnitudes in China these days and still improving. They have issues; but everyone has issues. Not to mention pissing off everyone else in the world they trade with by backing NK.

2- Client state /puppet state argument: It is a much more likely scenario that the US would hand over NK to China/ SK or let them have very strong influence such as the recent example of Iraq where Iran has more influence than the US over Iraqi affairs. The US has not the ways, means, desires or enthusiasm to try to do anything in NK post war. China will end up picking up the pieces. They know this so will get in early if war turns inevitable.

Another incorrect assumption by NK is that SK is a puppet state. China has figured out by now that they are not. If SK is not puppet state than NK never could be.

A united Korea under SK would be a much better trading partner and much more stable influence in the region. They could potentially see a doubling of trade in 3-5 years as NK gets unshackled. All this helps China.

If NK somehow pulled off the impossible and conquered SK the opposite would be true. They would lose billions in trade and have even more unstable state to deal with. If they nuke someone than it gets exponentially worse.

3- Defense Pacts: I know a lot of other countries that have had defense pacts in the past. WWI and WWII seem good examples of this. Syria and Jordan for example backed the US during the first Gulf War despite having the Baathist Stars on their flags. Defense pacts are meaningless and ultimately unenforceable. Back when China was communist of course they backed NK. These days not so much.

China has nothing to gain and everything to lose by backing NK insanity.
Off Topic (kind of) Are any of you US members upping your prepping/home security because of this current situation?
Not in any way that would effect most people here.

Edit: Ok, NATO could invade under the charter but NK would have to swing first and hit North America or Europe. If they do that though there won't be much left to invade though.
I think this is a well thought out post but I disagree on several points. You have to remember, You're thinking like a capitalist.

China is in an economic boom right now and their pride is very high. They have already started making moves to not rely on the American Dollar (deal with Brazil) and if they wanted to they could call in our debt. This would allow them to make money without giving any product.

Not to mention Russia, Iran, and China want to be the big kid on the block, they may see this as their chance to challenge America. No longer trading with China would hurt our economy more than theirs, and I feel they are willing to do it against the "evil capitalist." Take away our trade with China, oil from Iran/Iraq, and threat of nuclear war from Russia....There is actually a problem here.

I admit this is not the most likely scenerio, but don't we prepare for the unlikely? And sadly, this is not as unlikely as I would wish. I think this could be the start of WWIII.

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by BullOnParade » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:12 am

wee drop o' bush wrote:Off Topic (kind of) Are any of you US members upping your prepping/home security because of this current situation?
Not american, but I'll chime in. Been following this thread for a while.

I took a look at a map last night and figured some distances from major US cities to me. Nothing really popped as a threat on a major scale. Minor scale; several places along the border provide power to both sides, including my nearest nuclear power facility. The facility doesn't really have anything major on either side, and I don't think an attack of that magnitude is in our near future.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Stercutus » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:32 am

nathat wrote:
I think this is a well thought out post but I disagree on several points. You have to remember, You're thinking like a capitalist.

Agreed. In the final analysis though all sane people act in what they believe to be their best economic self interest. To do otherwise results in, well the DPRK


China is in an economic boom right now and their pride is very high. They have already started making moves to not rely on the American Dollar (deal with Brazil) and if they wanted to they could call in our debt. This would allow them to make money without giving any product.

If by "call in" you mean "sell on the open market" they could. The losses would be huge for them even if it would put the US in a tangle by raising rates substantially. By huge I mean losses would be well over a hundred billion dollars. They could afford it but may not want to. The loss in trade would be much more important. It would trigger a huge depression in China. The US would then have to find a new producer of cheap consumer goods. Lots of other countries could reap a huge benefit and reverse the trend of China taking their business.

Let's not forget where China voted on the last round of sanctions that precipitated all the threats. They must have known it was coming given the historical behavior of NK. They have been amazingly non-supportive of NK since then.


Not to mention Russia, Iran, and China want to be the big kid on the block, they may see this as their chance to challenge America. No longer trading with China would hurt our economy more than theirs, and I feel they are willing to do it against the "evil capitalist." Take away our trade with China, oil from Iran/Iraq, and threat of nuclear war from Russia....There is actually a problem here.

Much like China, Russia has nothing to gain by backing NK. I suppose if the cause were just or there was some advantage to be had there they might. They would gain nothing thereby. Sticking it to SK just for the sake of doing so is pretty empty.

China is already pretty big. Every analysis shows them expanding their economy to larger than the US within 20 years. I can't think of a single reason why their leadership would want that to change.


I admit this is not the most likely scenario, but don't we prepare for the unlikely? And sadly, this is not as unlikely as I would wish. I think this could be the start of WWIII.
I Don't see any WW III scenario. No one wants one (except NK). A world war would be the worst possible outcome for all parties.



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Re: Meanwhile, Two North Korean Subs have "Disappeared"

Post by Iowa_guy » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:56 am

Pilsung wrote:http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-0 ... isappeared
Chosun TV is reporting that South Korean military have lost contact with two North Korean submarines that left their naval base in Hwanghae Province a few days ago.

There has obviously been a lot of changes between last week and now and South Korean military officials suggested that while maneuvers in February were nothing meaningful, now it is provocation.

The two 'torpedo' subs are small 130-ton, 30-meter, 10-man machines that can stay submerged for three-to-four days.

2 man crew with 6 or 7 frogmen. Their SF guys are more worrisome than their torpedoes. Especially since that province is near the South Korean coast.

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Murphman » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:04 am

nathat wrote: China is in an economic boom right now and their pride is very high. They have already started making moves to not rely on the American Dollar (deal with Brazil) and if they wanted to they could call in our debt. This would allow them to make money without giving any product.

Not to mention Russia, Iran, and China want to be the big kid on the block, they may see this as their chance to challenge America. No longer trading with China would hurt our economy more than theirs, and I feel they are willing to do it against the "evil capitalist." Take away our trade with China, oil from Iran/Iraq, and threat of nuclear war from Russia....There is actually a problem here.

I admit this is not the most likely scenerio, but don't we prepare for the unlikely? And sadly, this is not as unlikely as I would wish. I think this could be the start of WWIII.
First off, if they call our debt, Bernanke prints more dollars and pays it off (we owe China less than we are printing this year). If China does that, they drop the RMB as far as the dollar drops as the RMB is still tied to the dollar, China instantly loses its largest market for exportation, and China loses one of its largest food importers. That would be a catastrophic blow to their economy and one they could not possibly undertake. A government cannot take away jobs and food at the same time. Popular revolt would incur within months and many, many people would die. China is our biggest foreign debt holder, true, but it is less than 10% of our total debt. This isn't nearly as caatastrophic as people make it out to be.

What does take away oil from Iran/Iraq mean? We already do not use Iranian oil. They are a fully embargoed nation by the US. Iraq is not a part of Iran and has no bearing on Iranian exports, and is only 2% of US usage (http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_im ... mbbl_m.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) Losing Iraq's oil would cause gas prices to rise about 30 cents a gallon (in a worst case scenario that doesn't take into account increasing US oil production).

Let's take a step back for a minute and think things through rationally by looking at some facts. China cannot lose the US a trade partner. We fuel too large a portion of their new found "growth". North Korea cannot get a missle over either our air defense in SK, Japan, Guam, or the damn Pacific ocean. We have yet to find proof of weapons of mass destruction in Iran. Russia is not a threat militarily as it is a complete stand-off due to their nuclear capability. We should be more worried about the fact that they have the largest land area in the world with untapped natural resources that could leave them the world's last carbon-energy producer in 100 years. And finally, The USA is still the only country in history to actually detonate a nuclear weapon as an offensive weapon.

I am more worried about the $85billion our Federal reserve is printing every single month, to eternity, than I am of some small rogue nation that likes to hear itself talk, but no one thinks that money printing is sexy these days, so all we hear about is the crazy little rogue nation that likes to hear itself talk.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:57 am

wee drop o' bush wrote:Off Topic (kind of) Are any of you US members upping your prepping/home security because of this current situation?
I think this is perfectly on topic, but what do I know.

I'm currently Floridian. I'd have to crunch the number again, but I think NK would have an easier time shooting over Asian and hitting my area than trying to lob one over the entire US. Personally I don't think they could even hit California, but I did clean and inspect my spare MOPP gear. Just incase something gets through, I want to make sure I'm able to help if needed.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by wee drop o' bush » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:24 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
wee drop o' bush wrote:Off Topic (kind of) Are any of you US members upping your prepping/home security because of this current situation?
I think this is perfectly on topic, but what do I know.
More than I do, that's for sure.
Doctorr Fabulous wrote: I'm currently Floridian. I'd have to crunch the number again, but I think NK would have an easier time shooting over Asian and hitting my area than trying to lob one over the entire US. Personally I don't think they could even hit California, but I did clean and inspect my spare MOPP gear. Just incase something gets through, I want to make sure I'm able to help if needed.
Fair enough.
I was just considering what I'd be doing if I was in your situations & was curious about how you all are adjusting your preps/contingency planning.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by nathat » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:26 am

Bernanke prints more dollars and pays it off

Which accomplishes the same goal. Our dollar would be worthless and people would switch to another currency quickly.
China instantly loses its largest market for exportation

They are already in the process of fixing this. Also, if they called in our debt what do you think world trade would turn to? Dollar would be worthless, after Cypress I'm not sure how many people trust the Euro...I think China is in a good position.
China cannot lose the US a trade partner.

This is where you're wrong. China sentiment towards the West is not a feel good one. News there is very different from here, and they are not used to being as comfortable as we are. I believe If the opportunity came, they wouldn't mind hurting a little to see the "evil" America fall. Not to mention our trade wouldn't stop, we would switch positions of consumer and producer because America would be the cheapest place to produce once the dollar falls that much.
What does take away oil from Iran/Iraq mean

You're correct I'm off base here as far as effects to America directly. I would go into what I was trying to say, but honestly it would take a chapter of a book, so let's just say I was wrong :oops:

China is on a emotional and economical high. False bravado can be a horrible thing in terms for the rest of the world. This mess may be an excuse to flex some muscle that has been waiting for a long time.

As far as mentioned not seeing why Russia would get involved, it's simple really. They have always wanted to be big dog on the block, and if they saw a chance to increase their standing with China and against America I believe they would take it. Not to mention the alliance the two have had, it may just be a "we stand beside China" act more than anything else.

All of this said, let me at least explain where I am coming from. My only experience in China is one of the mission field. Until very recently churches were underground and very secretive there. The thought process is not like we have here in America or any of the free world. Logic and beneficial thinking is not always first, but obedience and propaganda are number one. This is slowly changing I admit, but it is not yet to a point that I will depend on rational thought from the area. Sometimes I feel as though North Korea is the mouth peace of what China wants to say, they just don't because they are benefiting from staying quiet. At this point in time, I believe if there was any chance to become the top regime, they would take it in a heart beat. I may be very wrong, but this is my current perception.

With that said, I do see the foundation for WWIII. There are many countries who aren't fond of the West or their ideas, and I believe the pot has been on simmer for a long time with US playing global police. I hope I'm wrong. Also I admit this is probably not going to happen, again I think it is too possible to ignore though.

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by ZH10950 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:14 am

That little jackass just moved a missle to NK's east coast. Are you friggin kidding me?! :?
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Iowa_guy » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:31 am

ZH10950 wrote:That little jackass just moved a missle to NK's east coast. Are you friggin kidding me?! :?
All the closer for the Navy to sabotage it.

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by TacAir » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:33 am

Many have indicated that the Chinese will stay on the sidelines...

Chinese Communist Party General Secretary Xi Jinping was elected president of China, and Mr. Li Keqiang was named premier, during the National People’s Congress session.

...Mr. Wen said the Chinese leadership must “make sure that people are content with their lives and jobs, society is tranquil and orderly and the country enjoys long-term peace and stability.” But people’s discontent with social problems is nearing its limit. According to a leading member of the Chinese Society for Environmental Sciences, mass protests and riots over environmental pollution have been increasing an average 29 percent every year since 1996.

Also (Source)

"This report sheds light on the forms, manifestations and root causes of social unrest and its role in China's political system. It also analyses the various strategies of the Chinese government for mitigating and countering protests.

The rise of social unrest in China is not a sign of imminent regime collapse. Nevertheless, it bears risks that could severely disrupt China's social stability and thereby the interests of the European Union.

The EU should pay close attention to three phenomena: acts of repression undermining human rights in China, decreasing legitimacy at home that may prompt China to overreact in regional and international disputes, and surveillance technologies produced in Europe that might be applied to suppress dissent in China. "
*******
Given the issues faced by the brand new Chinese leadership, one has to wonder if this is viewed by Mr. Xi as an opportunity to focus the population on an 'external threat' as recently seen with the Japanese bashing of late...
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by wee drop o' bush » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:33 am

http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/ ... sile-coast" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
South Korea's description suggests the weapon in question may be a Musudan-class missile, shown here on display during a 2012 military parade. Image
Justin McCurry in Seoul, Ewen MacAskill in Washington and agencies

South Korea's defence minister has confirmed that Pyongyang has moved a missile with "considerable range" to its east coast, but said there were no signs that North Korea was preparing for a full-scale conflict despite the continuing standoff....
The confirmation from Kim Kwan-jin came hours after North Korea's military announced it had been authorised to attack the US using "smaller, lighter and diversified" nuclear weapons.

Kim said he did not know why the North had moved the missile, but suggested it "could be for testing or drills".

He dismissed Japanese media speculation that the missile could be a KN-08, which is believed to be a long-range missile that - if operable - could hit the US.

Kim told a parliamentary committee meeting that although the missile had considerable range, it was not sufficient to hit the US mainland.

His description could suggest a missile known as the Musudan, which has a range of 3,000km (1,800 miles). That would make Japan and South Korea potential targets along with US bases in both countries.
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