North Korea Saber Rattling

[ZH10950]

And now this

North Korean leader Kim Jong-un supervised a live artillery drill close to a disputed sea border with South Korea, state news agency KCNA reported on Thursday, in the latest sign of increased tensions between the two Koreas.
(Source)

but the newesis noted this
"So far, there are few signs beyond Pyongyang's rhetoric that it is preparing for a major conflict."

It's all talk... The UN is calling NK's bluff. The possibility of an artillery strike on SK is Kim's only playing card left.

[pyratemime]

Maybe Kim Jong-un is going to take a "Mouse That Roared" approach where he knows that the DPRK is beyond salvage and therefore is going to pick a fight so that others have to pay to fix the country.

[ZH10950]

Maybe Kim Jong-un is going to take a "Mouse That Roared" approach where he knows that the DPRK is beyond salvage and therefore is going to pick a fight so that others have to pay to fix the country.

Hmmm...good point. I hope not. A lot of lives will be lost. If that is his plan he would have to fire the first shot for all hell to break loose.

[Iowa_guy]

I looked back a few pages so forgive me if this has been discussed. I have a couple of points about China in this whole situation.

--With the status quo, China has a buffer on its border from a US allied nation. Its been well established that any conflict in Korea will eventually result in a reunification by the South. With a united Korea allied with America then the focus on the DMZ goes away and we can focus more on countering China's possible move on Taiwan. Not saying China wants to commit financial suicide but having a capable military on your flank gives you pause.

--China has enough of a DPRK refugee problem...once a conflict kicks off the issue becomes worse. Their military would be working to stream into Korea while millions of Northerners are running into China.

Completely my opinions and I encourage thoughts on them.

[sheddi]

With the status quo, China has a buffer on its border from a US allied nation.

OTOH ...

With DPRK under its current leadership, RoK is by necessity forced into allying with the US. A united Korea (and I think we can all agree it's going to be as an enlarged RoK, there's no credible way that DPRK is going to take over the South short of a huge geopolitical shift) would not need the US as an ally, and would be open to Chinese influence and (perhaps even) hegemony.

A united Korea would therefore give China an opportunity to extend its influence over the whole Korean peninsula.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained

[Rev]

I thought the South Koreans went out of their way to play nice with the Chinese?

[Iowa_guy]

With the status quo, China has a buffer on its border from a US allied nation.

OTOH ...

With DPRK under its current leadership, RoK is by necessity forced into allying with the US. A united Korea (and I think we can all agree it's going to be as an enlarged RoK, there's no credible way that DPRK is going to take over the South short of a huge geopolitical shift) would not need the US as an ally, and would be open to Chinese influence and (perhaps even) hegemony.

A united Korea would therefore give China an opportunity to extend its influence over the whole Korean peninsula.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained

That is an excellent point that I had not considered. Going further on your thinking Sheddi, Korea and China both have plenty of 70+ year old gripes about the former Empire of the Rising Sun. That could play out badly in that future.

[madoka]

A united Korea would therefore give China an opportunity to extend its influence over the whole Korean peninsula.

I disagree. China has been doing everything it can to prevent a united Korea. It would mean the U.S. would be at its doorstep. Therefore, they've been propping up NK even though its a PITA.

[Dan_Jorgenson]

Before i start i would like to say if anything is crossing the line then please tell me and i will retract my statements about the issue.

As has been stated the South will not want to control the North anytime soon due to the 26 million poverty stricken citizens it would collect, the South itself supporting 50 million. China on the other hand has a population well above 1 billion, with an effective population growth mechanism in the one child policy (like it or not it reduced population growth) and would more readily assimilate the North Korean population, gaining a province in the process.

While there is what i would consider a minor threat to the US in terms of nuclear capabilty and range, Westernized Asian countries, such as Japan, may more likely be the target. and those that discount the DPRK threat may not realise the potential damage it could cause, regardless of the nation targeted.

In terms of open conflict between DPRK and the "Allies" (South Korea, US and i would hope UK, Canada and Australia), yes, the official military of the North would be crippled within a few days yet we were in Iraq for 10 years without a well defined enemy. There are no estimates as to the number of civillians that would defect or those that would fight as a guerilla force and if the campaigns in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghan have shown us anything its that legitimate civillians unfortunately make a disproportionately high rate of casualities.

[angelofwar]

Arghhh...I had a whole page typed up and my explorer closed...so, I'll make this second reply short and sweet. Jorg, your post brought a few things to light.

The Iraq war was over in 21 days. We were in their capitol tearing down statues...I think that spells game over. What happened next is what Tom Clancy novels are made of. Iran had their next greatest enemy surrounding their country. They could have lost their country, their influence, etc. So what do they do? They start a clandestine guerilla war with America. Iran had so many special agents operating out of Iraq after the real "war', it wasn't funny. They were paying Iraqis to attack us. The Iraq's weren't doing it out of spite...they were doing it to feed their family's. The exception being Al'Saddar...he was an Iraqi "Patriot" that thought he was doing the right thing by resisting a foreign invasion. Every one else was A) Paid gun for hire, or B) Al' Queda that came from another country, just to get a shot a killing Americans. It didn't last ten years because we we un-capable to fight. In fact, Rumsfeld wanted US to hire these "guns for hire", and start our own guerilla war...but he was held back by the pols.

What does this have to do with NK? There's not this "hotbed" of anti amricanism in that region, to where guerilla fighters are going to come and fight the Americans, like there was in Iraq, and is still going on in Afghanistan. We could leave Afghanistan in a week if we really wanted to. Take the cuffs of the American commanders over there, and say "win this war for me", and it would be done. But having Americans fight guerilla wars en-masse is ugly...and is not good for approval ratings. This atmosphere does not exist in the region, engulfing Korea, Japan, China. A conventional war, left unhindered, would be over in very short order.

(Mods, please note, any perceived political comments in my post are strictly in regards to choices that directly affected the combat in the discussed contingencies, and I tried very hard to ensure that my post does not come across as political...if it does, please let me know, and I will adjust it accordingly)

[Dan_Jorgenson]

Arghhh...I had a whole page typed up and my explorer closed...so, I'll make this second reply short and sweet. Jorg, your post brought a few things to light.

The Iraq war was over in 21 days. We were in their capitol tearing down statues...I think that spells game over. What happened next is what Tom Clancy novels are made of. Iran had their next greatest enemy surrounding their country. They could have lost their country, their influence, etc. So what do they do? They start a clandestine guerilla war with America. Iran had so many special agents operating out of Iraq after the real "war', it wasn't funny. They were paying Iraqis to attack us. The Iraq's weren't doing it out of spite...they were doing it to feed their family's. The exception being Al'Saddar...he was an Iraqi "Patriot" that thought he was doing the right thing by resisting a foreign invasion. Every one else was A) Paid gun for hire, or B) Al' Queda that came from another country, just to get a shot a killing Americans. It didn't last ten years because we we un-capable to fight. In fact, Rumsfeld wanted US to hire these "guns for hire", and start our own guerilla war...but he was held back by the pols.

What does this have to do with NK? There's not this "hotbed" of anti amricanism in that region, to where guerilla fighters are going to come and fight the Americans, like there was in Iraq, and is still going on in Afghanistan. We could leave Afghanistan in a week if we really wanted to. Take the cuffs of the American commanders over there, and say "win this war for me", and it would be done. But having Americans fight guerilla wars en-masse is ugly...and is not good for approval ratings. This atmosphere does not exist in the region, engulfing Korea, Japan, China. A conventional war, left unhindered, would be over in very short order.

(Mods, please note, any perceived political comments in my post are strictly in regards to choices that directly affected the combat in the discussed contingencies, and I tried very hard to ensure that my post does not come across as political...if it does, please let me know, and I will adjust it accordingly)

The point i was trying to make was that with policing and military control suddenly gone, grudges within the community (such as Shia/ Sunni fighting in Iraq) will cause trouble.

[Iowa_guy]

The point i was trying to make was that with policing and military control suddenly gone, grudges within the community (such as Shia/ Sunni fighting in Iraq) will cause trouble.

To my knowledge North Korea does not have anything like the Shia/Sunni situation. I do not see any insurgency in NK due to the lack of religious, ethnic, or ideological differences. This is a country brainwashed and starved that would not rise up like other places have.

Its a good point that the South does not want 26 million hungry people to deal with. China could handle the influx if they wish to take on an additional province but I don't see them being thrilled with providing for them either.

[ElChoppahead]

every one don't worry,..........


Dennis Roddman is on the case,. he's quelling the fuse for us all!,. IT'LL BE FINE!

[Badger24]

North Korea's view of life in America. How they portray poor Americans drinking melted snow and other strange ideas.
Got any NK coffee lately?
http://msnvideo.msn.com/?videoid=857469 ... n-us_msnhp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[airballrad]

North Korea's view of life in America. How they portray poor Americans drinking melted snow and other strange ideas.
Got any NK coffee lately?
http://msnvideo.msn.com/?videoid=857469 ... n-us_msnhp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry, dude. This was a hoax. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/1 ... 68121.html

But it got a lot of news outlets too.

[KarLorian]

http://news.yahoo.com/south-korean-bank ... 49414.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

interesting

[DarkAxel]

http://news.yahoo.com/south-korean-bank ... 49414.html

interesting

I'm not saying it was hackers.......

But it was hackers.

Hacking attack hits South Korea, source still unclear

Seoul, South Korea (CNN) -- Cyberattackers targeted South Korean banks and broadcasters Wednesday, infecting networks with a malicious program that slowed or shut systems down, officials and the semiofficial Yonhap News Agency said.

Suspicion immediately fell on North Korea, which has recently renewed threats to go to war with the South amid rising tensions over Pyongyang's nuclear weapons and missile testing and international efforts to stop them....

More at the link

ETA: On the 15th, the DPRK claimed they had been hacked. (source)

[ZH10950]

SK is cyber attacked?! Only one thing left to do...call Duck Dodgers in the 24th 1/2 Century!

For those of you under 25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqAUiUDyFlY

[Valarius]

SK is cyber attacked?! Only one thing left to do...call Duck Dodgers in the 24th 1/2 Century!

For those of you under 25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqAUiUDyFlY

Please bitch. This is Zombie Squad, knowing the cartoons of Hanna Barbera is a requirement for entry.


A cyber attack is better, I think. It's an act of war without killing anyone directly. Maybe this was China's way of letting North Korea vent steam without setting off a nuke.

[Iowa_guy]

SK is cyber attacked?! Only one thing left to do...call Duck Dodgers in the 24th 1/2 Century!

For those of you under 25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqAUiUDyFlY

Please bitch. This is Zombie Squad, knowing the cartoons of Hanna Barbera is a requirement for entry.


A cyber attack is better, I think. It's an act of war without killing anyone directly. Maybe this was China's way of letting North Korea vent steam without setting off a nuke.

Cyber attacks are a slippery slope. Hacking a bank may not result in deaths (unless people are rioting at the ATM) but once you start hacking things more critical you run the risk of people being killed. Traffic systems, electrical grids etc...

[ZH10950]

SK is cyber attacked?! Only one thing left to do...call Duck Dodgers in the 24th 1/2 Century!

For those of you under 25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqAUiUDyFlY

Please bitch. This is Zombie Squad, knowing the cartoons of Hanna Barbera is a requirement for entry.


A cyber attack is better, I think. It's an act of war without killing anyone directly. Maybe this was China's way of letting North Korea vent steam without setting off a nuke.

"Bitch?!"

[DarkandShiny]

From The Onion

In recent weeks, North Korea has invalidated its 1953 armistice and threatened a preemptive nuclear strike on the U.S. Here are some other signs that the country is preparing for war:

Creating military formations that put soldiers with boots in front
Shutting off nation’s 14 lights at night so country is much more difficult to see
North Korean malls playing instrumental version of “(I’ve Had) The Time Of My Life” overdubbed with anti-U.S. lyrics
Strapping landmines to every North Korean citizen
Propaganda team Photoshopping an image of a muscular, shirtless Kim Jong-un putting the Statue of Liberty in a headlock
Mandating all citizens maintain a “victory dirt patch”
Reprinting every obituary published in American newspapers and adding at the end of each one, “We did this!”
Releasing several reports by the state news agency about how uneventful a day April 8 is going to be

[Doctorr Fabulous]

From The Onion

In recent weeks, North Korea has invalidated its 1953 armistice and threatened a preemptive nuclear strike on the U.S. Here are some other signs that the country is preparing for war:

Creating military formations that put soldiers with boots in front
Shutting off nation’s 14 lights at night so country is much more difficult to see
North Korean malls playing instrumental version of “(I’ve Had) The Time Of My Life” overdubbed with anti-U.S. lyrics
Strapping landmines to every North Korean citizen
Propaganda team Photoshopping an image of a muscular, shirtless Kim Jong-un putting the Statue of Liberty in a headlock
Mandating all citizens maintain a “victory dirt patch”
Reprinting every obituary published in American newspapers and adding at the end of each one, “We did this!”
Releasing several reports by the state news agency about how uneventful a day April 8 is going to be

You understand the Onion is satire, right?

[Pilsung]

Yawn.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ck-US.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;