Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

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Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by Ovationman » Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:14 pm

GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli warplanes and helicopters pounded the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip on Saturday, killing at least 205 people in the bloodiest one-day death toll in 60 years of conflict with the Palestinians.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/ ... me=topNews" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by naegling62 » Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:25 pm

Yeah and now there are 200+ kids who will grow up to hate Israel, anyway it never stops. This tit-for-tat crap just breeds hatred. Only way I see a change will be an all out war with one absolute winner. I dread the day that happens, it will be a hard time for the world.
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by andygates » Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:15 pm

The alternative is dialogue - the way it was done in Northern Ireland, which has managed to get out of a generations-old mess by talking despite the violence. Neither side will be able (or permitted) to exterminate the other, and you're right, tit-for-tat just keeps the whole stinking cycle ticking over.

But.

But NI is a piece of cake compared to the eternal winless mess that is that part of the world. :(
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by Tactical Raccoon » Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:45 pm

Unfortunately folks there is and always will be hatred between those hateful folks. They can never get a long. It is a shame for both sides.
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by dogbane » Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:14 pm

There were many mistakes made by many parties that led to this, things I and many others recognized at the time. Completely avoidable. Oh well. Nobody pays attention to my policy proposals.

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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by naegling62 » Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:18 pm

andygates wrote:The alternative is dialogue - the way it was done in Northern Ireland, which has managed to get out of a generations-old mess by talking despite the violence. Neither side will be able (or permitted) to exterminate the other, and you're right, tit-for-tat just keeps the whole stinking cycle ticking over.

But.

But NI is a piece of cake compared to the eternal winless mess that is that part of the world. :(
One thing that makes NI and Ireland as a whole easier to deal with is religion. Catholics and Protestans are both Christian and white. As far as the Mid East and Israel conflict you have a different religion and 3 racial groups. Ashkanazi Jew, Semetic Jew and which ever Mid East racial group they are dealing with at any given moment.
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by Gingersam » Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:20 pm

andygates wrote:The alternative is dialogue - the way it was done in Northern Ireland, which has managed to get out of a generations-old mess by talking despite the violence. Neither side will be able (or permitted) to exterminate the other, and you're right, tit-for-tat just keeps the whole stinking cycle ticking over.

But.

But NI is a piece of cake compared to the eternal winless mess that is that part of the world. :(
Talking has ended the conflict in NI, the assembly is a joke which in the very short time it has been open has done sfa. The violence stopped because the majority of the population got fed up with the violence.

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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by Deschain » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:14 pm

There's a lot of factions in Israel, which makes for a fucked-up situation on either side. There's a significant Christian population, of any number of sects. There's a Muslim faction or two on Israel's side of the fence. There's the Hasidic Jews, the Ethiopian Jews, the ultra-nationalist ones...there's settlers, there's peaceniks, there's extremists everywhere.

The Palestinians are in a shitty spot too- Hamas provides all the government services, but also aids and abets the people who break into Mr. Bloggins' house to use his backyard or roof as a missile platform. Somewhat predictably, he also comes back with a camera when Mr. Bloggins and family are blown up by Israeli counter-artillery fire. Hamas takes advantage of their suffering. The average Palestinian just wants to not get shelled because some asshats are trying to kill some Jews.

Unfortunately, I doubt either side would respond to talking. Hamas and other extremists basically want to kill every Jew alive because of personal tragedy and generations of propaganda, and all the Israelis remember how far talking got them this century.

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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by sheddi » Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:48 am

+1 to the sentiments. Palestine makes sorting out the Balkans seem simple :?
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by That German Guy » Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:19 am

sheddi wrote:+1 to the sentiments. Palestine makes sorting out the Balkans seem simple :?
I don't see the Balkans method (Kick everyone between the legs and then sort the pieces) working anyways. It's just too diplomatically unsafe down there.
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by Deschain » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:16 am

The UN isn't helping either. Israel has no friends on any council, and more than a few enemies. It's a fucking wonder they haven't said 'Screw public opinion, we're going to shell Gaza so hard not even the air stands upright and be done with this rocket bullshit.' People chronically whine about human rights violations and stuff, and go there just to document them. One day, mark my words, the Israelis are going to get tired of being whined at and start dumping 155 over the wall. Then, they'll tear it down and be like 'See? No more wall! Everyone's happy! Go fuck you hats, world!'

You know what might help the situation? Getting a bunch of countries that admit Israel has the right to exist, and getting them to provide incentives for peace for BOTH sides. Building a port in Gaza if Hamas makes a sufficiently large pile of militant bodies, and buying weapons from Israel if they pull back some settlers. Both sides want this, and it would contribute to the peace process a great deal. Only problem is that like past truces, the extremists on both sides would fuck it right up.

And it's a damn shame, because Israel is a kickass place to visit.

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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by Tactical Raccoon » Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:52 am

Looks like this is getting worse than better. Israel keeps provoking war at Gaza. It is a shame that the Israel's don't want peace. God bless them and their fading existence.

I wish the United States would step in and stop Israel from using force instead of working out a peace agreement. All they seem to want to do is blow shit up. I am sick of it.

IDF mobilizes tanks, reinforces troops along Gaza border
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050410.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IDF to mobilize 6,700 reservists for Gaza operation
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050618.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by phil_in_cs » Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:08 am

Tactical Raccoon wrote:Looks like this is getting worse than better. Israel keeps provoking war at Gaza. It is a shame that the Israel's don't want peace. God bless them and their fading existence.
Are you aware Hamas has fired 200+ rockets into Israel since the cease fire ended last week?

A big 'dirty little secret' is that Israel can not blockade Gaza without support from Egypt. Gaza and Egypt have a common border, and if Egypt wanted to, there could be open trade across it. Instead, Egypt built a wall and mine field to keep the Palestinians in. There are smuggling tunnels under the wall and mine fields, and those seem to be the target of the day.

/stopping to avoid politics.
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by Tactical Raccoon » Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:11 am

phil_in_cs wrote:
Tactical Raccoon wrote:Looks like this is getting worse than better. Israel keeps provoking war at Gaza. It is a shame that the Israel's don't want peace. God bless them and their fading existence.
Are you aware Hamas has fired 200+ rockets into Israel since the cease fire ended last week?
Yes but why is violence and retaliation always the answer? Why not use a pen instead of a launch button. Both sides need to grow a brain and use it! Diplomacy over destruction.
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by throwback » Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:23 am

Because Israels widest point is east to west is 71 miles. Its longest point north to south is 263 miles. They have no room to negotiate, particularly with a political party that has the destruction of their nation as part of their political platform.
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by llivne » Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:53 am

Tactical Raccoon wrote:Looks like this is getting worse than better. Israel keeps provoking war at Gaza. It is a shame that the Israel's don't want peace. God bless them and their fading existence.

I wish the United States would step in and stop Israel from using force instead of working out a peace agreement. All they seem to want to do is blow shit up. I am sick of it.

IDF mobilizes tanks, reinforces troops along Gaza border
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050410.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IDF to mobilize 6,700 reservists for Gaza operation
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050618.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
hell, it's not like the Palestines are lunching rockets on a daily basis or anything like that, omg we're reinforcing the boarder and refuse to have a cease-fire with known terrorists, oh the humanity.

three things:
1) get your facts straight, this is the age of information and clearly you have a working internet connection so i suggest you use it for something other then porn.
2) there's rarely a war where one side is entirely to blame, even i know that and i'm in one of the gorram sides.
3) God bless them and their fading existence?? - just before your post Deschain wrote "You know what might help the situation? Getting a bunch of countries that admit Israel has the right to exist", his right about that part and even if not it not like it's going to hurt so how about you do something to help instead of showing everybody just how much you don't know?

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i toned down my replay as much i could in an effort not to break any forum rules (again) but if there's still a problem just let me know.
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by Tactical Raccoon » Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:36 am

llivne wrote:
Tactical Raccoon wrote:Looks like this is getting worse than better. Israel keeps provoking war at Gaza. It is a shame that the Israel's don't want peace. God bless them and their fading existence.

I wish the United States would step in and stop Israel from using force instead of working out a peace agreement. All they seem to want to do is blow shit up. I am sick of it.

IDF mobilizes tanks, reinforces troops along Gaza border
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050410.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IDF to mobilize 6,700 reservists for Gaza operation
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050618.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
hell, it's not like the Palestines are lunching rockets on a daily basis or anything like that, omg we're reinforcing the boarder and refuse to have a cease-fire with known terrorists, oh the humanity.

three things:
1) get your facts straight, this is the age of information and clearly you have a working internet connection so i suggest you use it for something other then porn.
2) there's rarely a war where one side is entirely to blame, even i know that and i'm in one of the gorram sides.
3) God bless them and their fading existence?? - just before your post Deschain wrote "You know what might help the situation? Getting a bunch of countries that admit Israel has the right to exist", his right about that part and even if not it not like it's going to hurt so how about you do something to help instead of showing everybody just how much you don't know?

p.s.
i toned down my replay as much i could in an effort not to break any forum rules (again) but if there's still a problem just let me know.
Not saying either side is a saint in this matter but the fact that using violence and force to say a point is not wise. Yes the Israeli's and the Palestines have been fighting for decades... what has changed... nothing. So why not try something different instead of blowing each other up.

The reason I stated "God bless them and their fading existence" is because if they (Israeli's) keep attacking their neighbors they won't be alive for long. No wonder many of their neighbors are so hateful towards Israel. Also it doesn't help that Iran is playing a proxy war with Israel by using Hamas. It is not the Palenstinians fault they are just collateral damage.

Also to add... I didn't state that Hamas did not attack Israel first. What I stated was is why is Israel provoking a disastrous response from Hamas (not Palestine). Israel should restrain from violence to be the stronger state instead of being the weaker one by following Hamas's attack by doing the same childish thing as launching an attack on them. They both need to grow up and stop the fighting.
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by throwback » Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:52 am

It is the Palestinians fault. They elected Hamas to represent them. The majority wants the people that get them bombed in power, so they get bombed. It's a simple equation.
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by Tactical Raccoon » Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:03 pm

Looks like Russia is acting tough since we are in a transition period. Then again they tend to side with Iran.

Russia asks Israel to end Gaza attacks, let in aid
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LS305586.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And this is nothing new...

Iran leader orders Muslims to defend Palestinians
http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/id ... 28?sp=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by Deschain » Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:09 pm

Tactical Raccoon wrote: Also to add... I didn't state that Hamas did not attack Israel first. What I stated was is why is Israel provoking a disastrous response from Hamas (not Palestine). Israel should restrain from violence to be the stronger state instead of being the weaker one by following Hamas's attack by doing the same childish thing as launching an attack on them. They both need to grow up and stop the fighting.
See? See this? I blame the internets! That's how Hamas and other spread the propaganda. What did Israel do to provoke rocket attacks, aside from exist? Put down an embargo that they would have lifted further if another ceasefire was signed?

And no, not responding when another nation is trying to kill your people is NOT what a stronger nation does. If anything, it provokes more attacks. The disaster here is that Hamas took power. They kept it via force, started a small civil war. Their platform of ' Let's kill all the Jews!' doesn't buy them much credibility outside the Arabic world. They insist on attacking Israel, and then cry and wring their hands when the Israelis respond.

In other news: Israel Blows the Ever-Living Shit Out of Hamas Supply Tunnels

And, as well, I agree with Phil. His point is valid- Egypt among any number of other countries could have trade relations with Palestine. Palestine is a coastal nation, and therefore could trade with any number of other places with a coast. Hamas makes Mussolini look like a quality leader.

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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by llivne » Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:25 pm

Deschain wrote:
Tactical Raccoon wrote: Also to add... I didn't state that Hamas did not attack Israel first. What I stated was is why is Israel provoking a disastrous response from Hamas (not Palestine). Israel should restrain from violence to be the stronger state instead of being the weaker one by following Hamas's attack by doing the same childish thing as launching an attack on them. They both need to grow up and stop the fighting.
See? See this? I blame the internets! That's how Hamas and other spread the propaganda. What did Israel do to provoke rocket attacks, aside from exist? Put down an embargo that they would have lifted further if another ceasefire was signed?

And no, not responding when another nation is trying to kill your people is NOT what a stronger nation does. If anything, it provokes more attacks. The disaster here is that Hamas took power. They kept it via force, started a small civil war. Their platform of ' Let's kill all the Jews!' doesn't buy them much credibility outside the Arabic world. They insist on attacking Israel, and then cry and wring their hands when the Israelis respond.

In other news: Israel Blows the Ever-Living Shit Out of Hamas Supply Tunnels

And, as well, I agree with Phil. His point is valid- Egypt among any number of other countries could have trade relations with Palestine. Palestine is a coastal nation, and therefore could trade with any number of other places with a coast. Hamas makes Mussolini look like a quality leader.

Deschain
http://gulfnews.com/region/Middle_East/10270406.html
we did lifted it, Hamas response was more missiles.
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by MacabeeSicarius » Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:01 pm

you might want to include that almost all of the 205 mentioned in the title were HAMAS militants. over 180 last i heard.

this is far from a disaster in my opinion; a well planned and coordinated strike by the IAF and Tz`Hal.

TacticalRacoon, HAMAS had fair warning. Ehud Barak warned them a while ago, they didn't listen. IAF & IDF air cav called their bluff.

HAMAS did not attempt a cessation of rocket artillery and mortar strikes. what do you expect? you think they will just let them have their little paramilitary graduation without any fireworks being set off at the party?


hell no.


have you ever been to ha`eretz? i'm just trying to understand what you're basing your arguments on....first hand experience with the cultures and places involved?
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by andygates » Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:04 pm

Discussing this on the internet is almost as much of a winless mess as the situation on the ground. :(
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Re: Israel kills 205 in air assault on Gaza Strip

Post by naegling62 » Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:54 pm

If Israel wants to fix it's problem it either needs to look at the American model of taking someone elses land i.e. American Indians, looks like it worked. Or Anglo-Saxon invasion of Roman Britania and Norman conquest of Anglo-Saxon England. So far they have just took a small area and then got America to arm them to the teeth and then react to constant harassment but never fixin' the problem.
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