Mexico becoming a failed state?

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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by Wildeman_13 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:01 pm

Debunked-removed
Last edited by Wildeman_13 on Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by phil_in_cs » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:16 pm

Wildeman_13 wrote:Looks like Los Zetas has invaded Texas.

http://www.examiner.com/x-10317-San-Die ... s-in-Texas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In what could be deemed an act of war against the sovereign borders of the United States, Mexican drug cartels have seized control of at least two American ranches inside the U.S. territory near Laredo, Texas.
I saw that debunked before I saw the original claim: http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/303950.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by Banka87 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:21 pm

Anyone see the new section of tent city?


No cozy jail cell for you, illegals.
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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by Night Owl » Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:42 am

phil_in_cs wrote:
Night Owl wrote:I have no doubt we will become more involved in the conflict in Mexico. I would not put it past the Mexican government to request US asistance at some point.
I guess you aren't aware, but we've been providing training and supplies to the Mexican military for many years. That's one reason the Zetas are so effective as fighters - they recruit from the Mexican Army and Marines who have been trained by our SF FID trainers.
I know we activly train their military and have been for years. I meant more direct involvment like troops on the ground in Mexico in a combat role. Maybe some drones dropping hellfires might be helpfull also :mrgreen:
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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by phil_in_cs » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:41 am

Night Owl wrote:I know we activly train their military and have been for years. I meant more direct involvment like troops on the ground in Mexico in a combat role. Maybe some drones dropping hellfires might be helpfull also :mrgreen:
Drones and hellfires sure ended the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan quickly.
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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by Richter » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:50 am

phil_in_cs wrote:
Night Owl wrote:I know we activly train their military and have been for years. I meant more direct involvment like troops on the ground in Mexico in a combat role. Maybe some drones dropping hellfires might be helpfull also :mrgreen:
Drones and hellfires sure ended the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan quickly.

+1


I believe they would only escalate the violence as the cartels are sure to retaliate

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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by Rev » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:52 am

From what I here the cartels are doing a pretty good job of escalating the conflict themselves. Not that I'm for launching hellfire missiles at mexicans.
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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by phil_in_cs » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:12 am

What's happening, in Mao's terms, is a "Protracted Struggle". Anything that doesn't effect the root cause will not be effective in the long run. The Root Cause here is the huge amount of money ($40 Billion at least) flowing into Mexico for the drug trade. All the cartels, and parts of the Mexican govt, are battling for control of that.

As in Iraq and Afghanistan, you can kill an infinite number of foot soldiers and have no long term effect. Killing big shots will degrade an organizations performance until his replacement comes up to speed. In Mexico, it is more likely that killing any specific group will just get them replaced nearly instantly with a competing group.
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by Richter » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:30 am

so what you are saying then, is that even if they capture the big honchos of the cartels, another rival cartel will emerge, creating a never-ending cycle?


40 billion? a year? :shock: no wonder they do what they do.

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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by Rev » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:35 am

As long as it's profitable there will be drug cartels. As long as it is THAT profitable the cartels will be powerful enough to not only be annoyed by government interference but seek to eliminate it one way or another. If we were actually able to seal the border it would probably greatly help the Mexican government but no one here is interested in it.
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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by phil_in_cs » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:42 am

Richter wrote:40 billion? a year? :shock: no wonder they do what they do.
Look a few pages back for a StratFor piece that details the money. What's more, the drug money is almost all profit. If a group of legit companies earn $40 billion, they might net $4 billion profit or 10%. More likely $1.5 to $2.5 billion. Stratfor estimated the net on the drug trade at 75% or $30 billion in profit, annually. By comparison, Pemex, the Mexican national oil company, expects a $35 billion profit this year on a $415 billion gross.
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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by Night Owl » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:03 pm

Our government could secure the border almost overnight if they chose to. The group in charge will do nothing about it. They are counting on that voting block. They want to keep them happy. They could care less about the flood of criminal aliens into the country. I hope that will change come November . It can't come soon enough for me :evil:
Last edited by Night Owl on Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by pyratemime » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:30 pm

Night Owl wrote:Our government could secure the border almost overnight if they chose to. The democraps in charge will do nothing about it. They are counting on that voting block. They want to keep them happy. They could care less about the flood of criminal aliens into the country. I hope that will change come November . It can't come soon enough for me :evil:
You might want to reacquaint yourself with the forums rules on politics and consider editing this post accordingly.

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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by phil_in_cs » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:38 pm

Night Owl wrote:Our government could secure the border almost overnight if they chose to. The democraps in charge will do nothing about it. They are counting on that voting block. They want to keep them happy. They could care less about the flood of criminal aliens into the country. I hope that will change come November . It can't come soon enough for me :evil:
Please do not make political comments on Zombie Squad.
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Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by 3Fingas » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:45 pm

pyratemime wrote:
Night Owl wrote:Our government could secure the border almost overnight if they chose to. The democraps in charge will do nothing about it. They are counting on that voting block. They want to keep them happy. They could care less about the flood of criminal aliens into the country. I hope that will change come November . It can't come soon enough for me :evil:
You might want to reacquaint yourself with the forums rules on politics and consider editing this post accordingly.

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Many people have an economic or electoral interest in keeping our southern border unsecure, so you can't blame it on any one party... partisan politics really don't apply in this situation and are a no-no around here.

Having said that...the federal government, regardless as to who is in office, has the responsibility of protecting our borders -- a responsibility it has failed at miserably for nearly 2 decades and many changes of administrations....this is made more pressing by the utter anarchy and corruption found in some parts of Northern Mexico.
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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by Rev » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:50 pm

3Fingas wrote:Many people have an economic or electoral interest in keeping our southern border unsecure, so you can't blame it on any one party... partisan politics really don't apply in this situation and are a no-no around here.
This.
Last edited by Rev on Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by phil_in_cs » Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:01 pm

Rev Josiah wrote:
phil_in_cs wrote:Many people have an economic or electoral interest in keeping our southern border unsecure, so you can't blame it on any one party... partisan politics really don't apply in this situation and are a no-no around here.
This.
Well, yes, but 3fingas said it, not me.
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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by Rev » Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:58 pm

phil_in_cs wrote:
Rev Josiah wrote:
phil_in_cs wrote:Many people have an economic or electoral interest in keeping our southern border unsecure, so you can't blame it on any one party... partisan politics really don't apply in this situation and are a no-no around here.
This.
Well, yes, but 3fingas said it, not me.
Huh, how'd that happen? Working on it.
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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by Kommander » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:14 am

phil_in_cs wrote:
Wildeman_13 wrote:Looks like Los Zetas has invaded Texas.

http://www.examiner.com/x-10317-San-Die ... s-in-Texas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In what could be deemed an act of war against the sovereign borders of the United States, Mexican drug cartels have seized control of at least two American ranches inside the U.S. territory near Laredo, Texas.
I saw that debunked before I saw the original claim: http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/303950.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This has not gone away. Various sources that I will not link to due to their political content continue to insist that this is going on and have now published the location of the ranch(s).
Why must all the hoops be on fire?

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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by phil_in_cs » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:23 am

Kommander wrote:This has not gone away. Various sources that I will not link to due to their political content continue to insist that this is going on and have now published the location of the ranch(s).

Please PM them to me. It defies logic they would do this, when they can simply purchase the land and to use as they wish. It isn't like they are hurting for cash.

Setting up front businesses (a cattle ranch, in this case, or an olive oil importer in "The Godfather") to launder money and provide official concealment is a time honored part of the smuggling trade.
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by Wildeman_13 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:43 am

phil_in_cs wrote:
Kommander wrote:This has not gone away. Various sources that I will not link to due to their political content continue to insist that this is going on and have now published the location of the ranch(s).

Please PM them to me. It defies logic they would do this, when they can simply purchase the land and to use as they wish. It isn't like they are hurting for cash.

Setting up front businesses (a cattle ranch, in this case, or an olive oil importer in "The Godfather") to launder money and provide official concealment is a time honored part of the smuggling trade.
And me as well... I hate posting fake crap but what I saw seemed real until Phil posted his link and I have seen nothing else since then on my usual sites.

ETA: Just found this... (WARNING: SITE MIGHT BE CONSIDERED POLITICAL IN NATURE, BUT NOTHING TOO BAD FROM CURSORY VIEW WHILE READING LINKED PAGE)
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/003440.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Poster is claiming that the reporter who wrote the story I originally linked actually got confirmation from Laredo PD prior to publish but that now they are being evasive. I hate it when it turns into a he said-she said situation.
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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by Kommander » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:47 am

Diggers Realm is one of the sites. I am PMing the other now.
phil_in_cs wrote:It defies logic they would do this, when they can simply purchase the land and to use as they wish. It isn't like they are hurting for cash.

Setting up front businesses (a cattle ranch, in this case, or an olive oil importer in "The Godfather") to launder money and provide official concealment is a time honored part of the smuggling trade.
From what I have been able to gather this is some sort of desperation move due to the pressure from the Mexican Feds, though information remains quite thin. Also remember that these are not old world "Godfather" type mafia. These guys are more like guerrillas who sell drugs instead of revolution. In fact many of the groups now moving drugs started out as leftist guerrilla groups who turned to drug smuggling and other crimes for income. After a while the head honchos decided that being a drug lord in a villa beat the hell out of being a tin pot dictator of a bankrupt nation. They ditched the politics (unofficially of course) and began to run their operation like a business instead of a political movement.

Also I just saw this. Fun stuff.
Last edited by Kommander on Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Why must all the hoops be on fire?

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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by spacetyrant » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:18 pm

phil_in_cs wrote:
Richter wrote:40 billion? a year? :shock: no wonder they do what they do.
Look a few pages back for a StratFor piece that details the money. What's more, the drug money is almost all profit. If a group of legit companies earn $40 billion, they might net $4 billion profit or 10%. More likely $1.5 to $2.5 billion. Stratfor estimated the net on the drug trade at 75% or $30 billion in profit, annually. By comparison, Pemex, the Mexican national oil company, expects a $35 billion profit this year on a $415 billion gross.
I believe this is the link being referenced.

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20100405 ... _revisited" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Mexico becoming a failed state?

Post by Wildeman_13 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:54 pm

US Consulate in Ciudad Juarez closes for security
The U.S. closed its consulate in the Mexican border city of Ciudad Juarez on Thursday pending a security review, an unexpected decision that comes months after drug gangs killed three people tied to the consulate.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... QD9H9460G0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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