Military coup d'etat in Turkey

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by teotwaki » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:19 pm

Here is what is relevant about Gulen

US-Turkish tensions rise after failed coup attempt

https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-partie ... tml?ref=gs

LUXEMBOURG (AP) — U.S.-Turkish tensions escalated Saturday after a quashed coup in Turkey, as the country's leader bluntly demanded the extradition of a U.S.-based cleric he accused of orchestrating the violence. Another senior official directly blamed the United States.

After strongly supporting Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan when it seemed his government might topple and then opening the door to sending home the cleric, a stung Obama administration fired back at its NATO ally.

"Public insinuations or claims about any role by the United States in the failed coup attempt are utterly false and harmful to our bilateral relations," U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry told his Turkish counterpart, according to the State Department's readout of their telephone call.

The back-and-forth occurred against the backdrop of Turkey closing its airspace, effectively grounding U.S. warplanes that had been targeting Islamic State forces in neighboring Syria and Iraq.

At the center of the controversy stood Fethullah Gulen, who lives in exile in Pennsylvania and promotes a philosophy that blends a mystical form of Islam with staunch advocacy of democracy, education, science and interfaith dialogue.

Gulen quickly condemned Friday night's coup attempt by military officers that resulted in a night of explosions, air battles and gunfire that left dozens dead. Erdogan's government said Gulen directed the coup all the same.

In a televised speech Saturday, Erdogan said Turkey had never rejected a U.S. extradition request for "terrorists." Addressing Washington, he requested the handover of Gulen and said, "If we are strategic partners, then you should bring about our request."

Although he didn't outline any threat, Erdogan's emphasis on U.S.-Turkish counterterrorism cooperation raised the prospect of a prolonged closure of the Incirlik air base in southern Turkey if he didn't get his way. The Pentagon said it was trying to get permission to resume air operations from the base, while adjusting mission operations in the meantime.

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Maeklos » Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:18 am

If I had to guess, I'd say that if this wasn't a black flag operation in order for Erdogan to consolidate power, he's capitalizing on it for the same ends. Now all he's got to do is declare a state of crisis in his country, get the Parliament to vote him emergency powers, suspend constitutional authority and dissolve the Parliament and declare himself Emperor.

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If the coup were carried out at his orchestration, he probably used it to cull out those military officers most likely to oppose a consolidation of power. If it wasn't, then he'll use it to cull out anyone he thinks will oppose him in order to prevent another, successful coup.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Stercutus » Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:18 pm

I'd say the net effect of shutting down Incirlink would be near zero. In fact strategically the US might be in better position to take the base out of Turkey altogether given the changing dynamics of the region and put it somewhere else, or just leave...
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Maeklos » Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:48 pm

Unfortunately, if we pull out of Turkey as a source of strikes against ISIS that just leaves us....hm. Are we even operating any air bases in Iraq anymore? If not, it's a long haul from Europe or carrier-based missions in the Mediterranean.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by teotwaki » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:02 pm

another problem with Incirlik

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk ... -in-turkey

The H-Bombs in Turkey
By Eric Schlosser , July 17, 2016

among the many questions still unanswered following Friday’s coup attempt in Turkey is one that has national-security implications for the United States and for the rest of the world: How secure are the American hydrogen bombs stored at a Turkish airbase?

The Incirlik Airbase, in southeast Turkey, houses NATO’s largest nuclear-weapons storage facility. On Saturday morning, the American Embassy in Ankara issued an “Emergency Message for U.S. Citizens,” warning that power had been cut to Incirlik and that “local authorities are denying movements on to and off of” the base. Incirlik was forced to rely on backup generators; U.S. Air Force planes stationed there were prohibited from taking off or landing; and the security-threat level was raised to FPCON Delta, the highest state of alert, declared when a terrorist attack has occurred or may be imminent. On Sunday, the base commander, General Bekir Ercan Van, and nine other Turkish officers at Incirlik were detained for allegedly supporting the coup. As of this writing, American flights have resumed at the base, but the power is still cut off.

According to Hans M. Kristensen, the director of the Nuclear Information Project at the Federation of American Scientists, underground vaults at Incirlik hold about fifty B-61 hydrogen bombs—more than twenty-five per cent of the nuclear weapons in the NATO stockpile. The nuclear yield of the B-61 can be adjusted to suit a particular mission. The bomb that destroyed Hiroshima had an explosive force equivalent to about fifteen kilotons of TNT. In comparison, the “dial-a-yield” of the B-61 bombs at Incirlik can be adjusted from 0.3 kilotons to as many as a hundred and seventy kilotons.

Incirlik was built by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers in the wake of the Second World War; when Turkey joined NATO, in 1952, it became a crucial American base during the Cold War. With a flight time of about an hour to the Soviet Union, the base hosted American fighters, bombers, tankers, and U-2 spy planes. And, like many NATO bases, it stored American nuclear weapons. NATO strategy was dependent on nuclear weapons as a counterbalance to the perceived superiority of Soviet conventional forces. The threat of a nuclear attack, it was assumed, would deter Soviet tanks from rolling into NATO territory. And granting NATO countries access to nuclear weapons would strengthen the alliance, providing tangible evidence that the United States would risk a nuclear war for NATO’s defense.

By the mid-nineteen-sixties, more than seven thousand American nuclear weapons were deployed in Western Europe, Greece, and Turkey. They came in all sizes, shapes, and yields: nuclear warheads, bombs, land mines, depth charges, artillery shells, even small nuclear projectiles that could be fired from a recoilless rifle. The weapons were technically in the custody of U.S. officers, ready to be handed over for use in wartime by NATO personnel. But custody of the weapons was not the same as control of them. A delegation of U.S. senators visiting Europe in 1960 was shocked to find hydrogen bombs loaded onto German planes that were on alert and crewed by German pilots; thermonuclear warheads atop missiles manned by Italian crews; nuclear weapons guarded and transported by “non-Americans with non-American vehicles.” The theft or use of these weapons by NATO allies became a grave concern. “The prime loyalty of the guards, of course, is to their own nation, and not to the U.S.,” the Senate delegation warned in a classified report.

Two years later, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara worried that Turkish officers might try to fire some of NATO’s nuclear missiles at the Soviet Union without permission—and ordered American custodians to sabotage the missiles, somehow, if anyone tried to launch them. Coded switches were subsequently placed inside NATO’s hydrogen bombs. These switches, known as Permissive Action Links (PALs), were designed to hinder unauthorized use of the weapons; the bombs wouldn’t detonate if the operator didn’t enter the right code. But PALs could be circumvented by someone with the proper technical skills. When two NATO allies, Greece and Turkey, were on the cusp of war in 1974, the United States secretly removed all of NATO’s nuclear weapons from Greece and cut the arming wires of every nuclear weapon stored in Turkey, rendering them inoperable.

Thanks largely to stockpile reductions during the Administrations of President George H. W. Bush and President George W. Bush, the United States now has about a hundred and eighty nuclear weapons deployed with NATO, all of them B-61 bombs. In addition to Incirlik, the weapons are stored at bases in Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, and Italy. Today, the symbolism of these bombs is far more important than their military utility; missiles carrying nuclear warheads reach targets much faster, more reliably, and with much greater accuracy. The advocates of retaining nuclear weapons in NATO argue that the B-61 bombs demonstrate America’s enduring commitment to the alliance, intimidate Russia, and discourage NATO members from developing their own hydrogen bombs. Opponents of the weapons, like Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the German foreign minister, consider them “absolutely senseless”—and an inviting target for terrorists.

With a few hours and the right tools and training, you could open one of NATO’s nuclear-weapons storage vaults, remove a weapon, and bypass the PAL inside it. Within seconds, you could place an explosive device on top of a storage vault, destroy the weapon, and release a lethal radioactive cloud. NATO’s hydrogen bombs are still guarded by the troops of their host countries. In 2010, peace activists climbed over a fence at the Kleine Brogel Airbase, in Belgium, cut through a second fence, entered a hardened shelter containing nuclear-weapon vaults, placed anti-nuclear stickers on the walls, wandered the base for an hour, and posted a video of the intrusion on YouTube. The video showed that the Belgian soldier who finally confronted them was carrying an unloaded rifle.

Security concerns at Incirlik Airbase recently prompted a major upgrade of the perimeter fence that surrounds its nuclear-weapons storage area. Incirlik is about seventy miles from the Syrian border, and since last October American aircraft and drones based there have been attacking ISIS forces. Its proximity to rebel-controlled areas in Syria and the rash of terrorist acts in Turkey led the Pentagon, a few months ago, to issue an “ordered departure” of all the family members of American troops at Incirlik. They were asked to leave immediately. About two thousand U.S. military personnel remain stationed there. Although Incirlik probably has more nuclear weapons than any other NATO base, it does not have any American or Turkish aircraft equipped to deliver them. The bombs simply sit at the base, underground, waiting to be used or misused.

Eric Schlosser is the author of “Fast Food Nation” and “Command and Control: Nuclear Weapons, the Damascus Accident, and the Illusion of Safety.”
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Halfapint » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:17 pm

Maybe it's me, but this coup seemed.... Odd maybe I'm being a conspiracy nut (usually I'm not I swear). But usually coups don't happen with that small of a number. It also seems like odd timing. Erdogen has been consolidating power and moving toward an Islamic state. Many in the military have questioned and been vocal about the shift, many of those that were vocal are the ones being rounded up. This seems like a purge to make way for more power to Erdogen.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by LowKey » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:30 pm

Maeklos wrote:Unfortunately, if we pull out of Turkey as a source of strikes against ISIS that just leaves us....hm. Are we even operating any air bases in Iraq anymore? If not, it's a long haul from Europe or carrier-based missions in the Mediterranean.
We have other options, and other bases in the region much closer then Europe. I drive by one every morning on my way to work.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by LowKey » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:35 pm

Halfapint wrote:Maybe it's me, but this coup seemed.... Odd maybe I'm being a conspiracy nut (usually I'm not I swear). But usually coups don't happen with that small of a number. It also seems like odd timing. Erdogen has been consolidating power and moving toward an Islamic state. Many in the military have questioned and been vocal about the shift, many of those that were vocal are the ones being rounded up. This seems like a purge to make way for more power to Erdogen.
You are not the only one with such suspicions.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Stercutus » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:40 am

LowKey wrote:
Halfapint wrote:Maybe it's me, but this coup seemed.... Odd maybe I'm being a conspiracy nut (usually I'm not I swear). But usually coups don't happen with that small of a number. It also seems like odd timing. Erdogen has been consolidating power and moving toward an Islamic state. Many in the military have questioned and been vocal about the shift, many of those that were vocal are the ones being rounded up. This seems like a purge to make way for more power to Erdogen.
You are not the only one with such suspicions.

I am not normally one for conspiracy theories but; that part of the world is ripe with conspiracies. If I were a betting man I'd say 60/40 the PM rigged up a fake revolt. Back in the day I would have checked all the latest intel and made a much better guess. But that day has long passed.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by g0nz0 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:37 pm

Turkey coup: Purge widens to education sector
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36838347
More than 1,500 university deans have also been ordered to resign and the licences of 21,000 teachers working at private institutions revoked.

The army, judiciary, security and civil service have all been targeted following Friday's coup attempt:

6,000 military personnel have been arrested, with more than two dozen generals awaiting trial
Nearly 9,000 police officers have been sacked
Close to 3,000 judges have been suspended
Some 1,500 employees of Turkey's finance ministry have been dismissed
492 have been fired from the Religious Affairs Directorate
More than 250 staff in Mr Yildirim's office have been removed

Turkey's media regulation body on Tuesday also revoked the licenses of 24 radio and TV channels accused of links to Mr Gulen.

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by LowKey » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:13 pm

g0nz0 wrote:Turkey coup: Purge widens to education sector
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36838347
More than 1,500 university deans have also been ordered to resign and the licences of 21,000 teachers working at private institutions revoked.

The army, judiciary, security and civil service have all been targeted following Friday's coup attempt:

6,000 military personnel have been arrested, with more than two dozen generals awaiting trial
Nearly 9,000 police officers have been sacked
Close to 3,000 judges have been suspended
Some 1,500 employees of Turkey's finance ministry have been dismissed
492 have been fired from the Religious Affairs Directorate
More than 250 staff in Mr Yildirim's office have been removed

Turkey's media regulation body on Tuesday also revoked the licenses of 24 radio and TV channels accused of links to Mr Gulen.

Looks an awful lot like somebody is using all this as an excuse to stack the deck in favor of a particular ideology. In fact it's awfully quick for them to have connected "leaders" or a "coup" to over 20,000 persons i the educational field. This smacks more of someone having made a list of who they want to get rid of in advance of any problem. The term "purge" comes to mind.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by g0nz0 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:16 pm

Turkish naval ships & choppers reportedly missing since botched coup, Turkey Deputy PM denies

https://www.rt.com/news/352046-navy-shi ... ng-turkey/
Turkey’s navy is still unable to account for 14 ships, while two helicopters with 25 special forces troops are also missing since an unsuccessful coup plot against the government. However, Deputy PM Numan Kurtulmus has denied any naval vessels are unaccounted for.

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Stercutus » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:20 pm

He keeps it up and he might have a real coup on his hands.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Black Beard » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:18 am

A BBC correspondent on the radio suggested that the coup was a response to a proposed military re-organisation. If this is true and Erdoran was consolidating power within the Army then he can now accelerate the changes he wanted to make. He probably already has a list of people/groups he doesn’t like and now has an opportunity to make whole sale changes.

Turkey’s tourist industry is going to take a hit and inward investment is going to drop (particularly if he introduces the death penalty and EU membership is no longer viable).

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Close_enough » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:12 pm

It's up to 50,000 now fired or detained plus the 21,000 who had their teaching licenses revoked and their careers ended. The latest targeted group seems to be teachers. If I had to guess at a stratagem, I'd say he intends to revise history and doesn't want anybody to contradict his version of events.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/erd ... ar-BBuywob

As far as the missing ships go, is it feasible that they just cut and ran to avoid getting caught in his purge?

EDIT: I think that we can effectively write off tourism as a source of income. Nobody, outside of reporters and zealots, willingly travel to a country in the middle of a purge.

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by g0nz0 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:26 pm

Turkey: Work travel ban on academics after failed coup

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/07/t ... 11188.html
Turkey's higher education council has banned academics from leaving the country for academic purposes and urged those overseas to quickly return home, according to state media and a Turkish official.

"It is a temporary measure that we were compelled to take due to the flight risk of alleged accomplices of coup plotters in universities," a Turkish official, who asked to remain anonymous, told Al Jazeera on Wednesday.

"Universities have always been crucial for military juntas in Turkey, and certain individuals are believed to be in contact with cells within the military," the official said.

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Close_enough » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:50 pm

g0nz0 wrote:Turkey: Work travel ban on academics after failed coup

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/07/t ... 11188.html
Turkey's higher education council has banned academics from leaving the country for academic purposes and urged those overseas to quickly return home, according to state media and a Turkish official.

"It is a temporary measure that we were compelled to take due to the flight risk of alleged accomplices of coup plotters in universities," a Turkish official, who asked to remain anonymous, told Al Jazeera on Wednesday.

"Universities have always been crucial for military juntas in Turkey, and certain individuals are believed to be in contact with cells within the military," the official said.
Now ALL university deans are being asked to resign. If I had relatives in the education field, I would be on my way to the nearest semi-friendly country with my extended family in tow.
https://gma.yahoo.com/turkey-demands-re ... ories.html
Turkey's Board of Higher Education demanded the resignation of 1,577 deans from every university in the country, according to state-run Turkish media, the latest purge following the aftermath of a failed military coup to remove President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by sheddi » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:56 pm

Close_enough wrote:EDIT: I think that we can effectively write off tourism as a source of income. Nobody, outside of reporters and zealots, willingly travel to a country in the middle of a purge.
Although my neighbour flew out on Sunday for a week in the sun, and he's neither a reporter nor a zealot :shock:
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by g0nz0 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:57 pm

Turkey coup sparks state of emergency

https://www.rt.com/news/352361-turkey-s ... y-erdogan/
A state of emergency will be introduced in Turkey for three months following a coup attempt last week, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced on Wednesday.

Speaking in a live broadcast address following a meeting with the National Security Council in the capital of Ankara, the Turkish leader said the decision was not against the rule of law, and did not violate any democratic freedoms.

Erdogan claimed the coup attempt might not have ended and there could be “more plans” to forcefully seize power in the country, AFP reported.

He added that European states have no right to criticize the decision to declare a state of emergency.

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by sheddi » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:05 pm

There's a good (longish) article here on the BBC regarding who has been targeted, and some speculation on why. In very broad terms I'm reminded of the anti-Communist purges of the 50s.

Turkey coup attempt: Who's the target of Erdogan's purge?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36835340
So who is being targeted and why?

As soon as it became clear that the coup had failed, the crackdown began - first with the security forces, then spreading to Turkey's entire civilian infrastructure. In the words of one Turkish columnist it was a "counter-coup" - a cleansing of the system, in the style of a coup, that had taken place in the past.

The express aim of the president is to "cleanse all state institutions". And the target is what he calls "the parallel state" - a movement headed by an arch-rival in self-imposed exile in the US, accused of plotting the coup.

No-one really knows how extensive that movement is, but followers of exiled cleric Fethullah Gulen are suspected of infiltrating some of the posts closest to the president, including chief military aide Ali Yazici and air force adviser Lt Col Erkan Kivrak,

A "Gulenist clique" in the army was behind the coup, officials say. And they came so close, says the president, that they were within 10 or 15 minutes of assassinating or kidnapping him. More on the Gulenists later.
More at the link.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by raptor » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:13 pm

Any sign of the 14 missing Navy Vessels?

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Close_enough » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:33 pm

sheddi wrote:There's a good (longish) article here on the BBC regarding who has been targeted, and some speculation on why. In very broad terms I'm reminded of the anti-Communist purges of the 50s.
I was thinking about the purges that seem to accompany an authoritarian/facist/dictatorship rise to power. The new government is scare witless of possible internal dissent, they eliminate anybody who holds some degree of influence and isn't a loyal party member in good standing (translate: raving fanatic). Intellesia, entertainers, and academics are popular targets since they can influence popular culture and the upcoming generations, and lack the economic and political resources to protect themselves.

Though, I will admit, McCarthyism isn't a bad comparison.
Last edited by Close_enough on Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by g0nz0 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:40 pm

I haven't seen any updates regarding the missing ships from any of the major outlets

The Google aggregation lords have provided a bunch of related articles at the link below:
https://news.google.co.in/news/story?cf ... &scoring=n

Turkey Denies Its Warships Vanished
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ished.html

Rumors/comments flying around say:
the coup is still in progress

that the commanders of these ships were leaders/conspirators (possibly defecting)

Turkey will use these "missing rebel" ships to attack Russia Syrian bases / staged act to force a "incident" as an excuse for some plan Turkey and NATO have going

^^The above are comments I have seen and not meant to start any chaos ^^

Detection via satellite imagery is one thing, but is it possible for this many ships to disable any and all transponders/beacons/etc. to make them undetectable by anything other than visual observation?

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Close_enough » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:47 pm

g0nz0 wrote: Detection via satellite imagery is one thing, but is it possible for this many ships to disable any and all transponders/beacons/etc. to make them undetectable by anything other than visual observation?
No reason why they couldn't. I mean, what good is a warship if it's constantly broadcasting "here I am" messages on a number of different frequencies. Any missile with an anti-radiation guidance package will just waltz right in guided by those beacons.

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