Military coup d'etat in Turkey

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by ineffableone » Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:50 pm

Here is a preview of what is going to be a bigger report from the Real News Network

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Stercutus » Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:53 pm

The Twizzler wrote:
Stercutus wrote:Things are getting hectic.

Some crowds are cheering on the army, some are protesting.

Some soldiers being led around in handcuffs by police. There is a bit of kissing, hugging and combined patrols between police and soldiers.

This is looking more and more like a poorly planned and executed coup. You would think that the military would be experts at it by now.

Rutroh, bombs hitting the Parliament.

So there is a coup and then all the military guys and police just start kissing and hugging each other?
"Mustaffa! I want to save our country, but I just noticed how sexy your mustache is.

You haven't lived until a big Arab man grabs your hand and walks you down the street.

Sort of a strange side bar on Middle Eastern culture. Every Arab Muslim I ever met (even the bisexual ones) were very homophobic. But kissing and holding hands with another man was quite normal.

Here is a preview of what is going to be a bigger report from the Real News Network
Fascinating false flag theory there at the end of the video. If he is burning down the Reichstag to consolidate power he will probable get caught.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by The Twizzler » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:01 pm

:shock: I knew there was a reason I had never been to the middle east.
Seriously though Turkey probably has the most capable land army in Nato outside the US. I know size wise it's only second to the US. They have a modern air force as well. It is an important story as they are the only thing that keeps Russia (when it's being belligerent) out of the Mediterranean. Also I hear a lot about oil piplelines and Turkey's big political powers. What I find interesting is the coup is taking on Ergodan and at the same time his hated rival Gullen by attacking the police forces( largely known to be supportive of Gullen). I mean Gullen lives in Pennsylvania and I haven't heard a peep from him.


Stercutus wrote:
The Twizzler wrote:
Stercutus wrote:Things are getting hectic.

Some crowds are cheering on the army, some are protesting.

Some soldiers being led around in handcuffs by police. There is a bit of kissing, hugging and combined patrols between police and soldiers.

This is looking more and more like a poorly planned and executed coup. You would think that the military would be experts at it by now.

Rutroh, bombs hitting the Parliament.

So there is a coup and then all the military guys and police just start kissing and hugging each other?
"Mustaffa! I want to save our country, but I just noticed how sexy your mustache is.

You haven't lived until a big Arab man grabs your hand and walks you down the street.

Sort of a strange side bar on Middle Eastern culture. Every Arab Muslim I ever met (even the bisexual ones) were very homophobic. But kissing and holding hands with another man was quite normal.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by norcalprep » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:10 pm

On the BBC live feed, it seems to indicate that the coup failed. It named 104 soldiers who took part in the uprising, led by a Col Muharrem Kose.

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Maeklos » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:16 pm

I don't see how only 104 soldiers would attempt a coup unless they literally had all the relevant high-value personages like Erdogan in their hands. Not to mention the stories of aircraft, tanks, etc, that are circulating now. For those 104 soldiers to include tank crews, aircrew (plus maintenance, loaders, and other ground crew) and so on just seems to be stretching belief just a bit. Unless that 104 number is simply how many have surrendered/been captured so far.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by ineffableone » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:33 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Here is a preview of what is going to be a bigger report from the Real News Network
Fascinating false flag theory there at the end of the video. If he is burning down the Reichstag to consolidate power he will probable get caught.
Yep that is part of why I posted their preview video, I thought it was an interesting thought that I haven't seen other news bring up. They weren't saying it was true, but they were keeping open minds to it being possible.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Maeklos » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:09 pm

Yeah, looks like the 104 number earlier was just how many had been arrested/captured so far. Number right now is over 120 arrested. I'm not seeing anything about fatalities, though, despite the Parliament complex being hit at least twice by bombs dropped from fast movers (21:05EST and 21:35EST).

EDIT: Updated with excerpt from Erdogan's speech a half hour ago, via Rudaw's Facebook page:
“Instead of protecting Turkish unity, they were able to penetrate the army and commit their acts. This is a betrayal of the people and the country and they will be punished severely.”

“A government that comes into power by the people’s vote can only be removed by the people’s voice.”

“The terrorists are being commanded from Pennsylvania."

“I came here to let you know that I am alive. This is the nation. We are all one homeland. If people didn’t support us, the coup would be successful. The people defeated the coup.”
Further update, via BBC:
Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim has ordered the military to shoot down any aircraft hijacked by coup plotters.

He says military jets have taken off from an air base in Eskisehir, east of Ankara.
Looks like there might be some fireworks over Ankara tonight.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by ineffableone » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:42 pm

Real News released the full video

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Stercutus » Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:47 am

Looks like this one is all sewn up with the rebels going down in flames.

Should be a crisis for the PM to exploit and consolidate power.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by sheddi » Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:08 am

Looks as though it's pretty much over. The remainder of the military, plus all the civil players, have decided they don't want a coup after all.

Turkey: Military says coup attempt has been quashed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36813924
BBC wrote:An attempted coup by a faction of the armed forces has been quashed, Turkey's acting military chief of staff says. Umit Dundar said 104 coup plotters had been killed and 1,563 arrested in a night of gunfire and explosions in Ankara, Istanbul and elsewhere.

A further 90 people died and 1,154 people were injured as thousands of Turks heeded President Erdogan's call to rise up against the coup-plotters. It is not known who was behind the attempted putsch.

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan blamed a "parallel structure", in a clear reference to Fethullah Gulen, a powerful but reclusive US-based Muslim cleric he accuses of fomenting unrest. However, in a statement, Mr Gulen rejected any suggestion he had links to the events, saying he condemned "in the strongest terms, the attempted military coup in Turkey".
Much more at the link.

Erdogan's attempt to blame Gulen is something we've seen before in similar situations; when you don't really know who to blame, pick on the usual suspects. You might be right plus (at least in the critical first few hours) it gives your supporters someone to oppose and makes you look like you know what you're doing.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by sheddi » Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:39 am

Here's some fascinating footage from the CNN Turkey offices showing the police and unarmed civilians (journalists?) overpowering the soldiers who had taken control.
https://twitter.com/ismailsaymaz/status ... 2282569736

It's notable that despite all the rifles present no-one makes any move to use them. The soldiers get a little roughed up and the police seem to spend as much time protecting the soldiers from the other civilians as they do trying to take them into custody.

My guess is that the senior officers willl end up being jailed for treason but the junior officers and other ranks will succeed in claiming they were just obeying orders.

Edit to add:
More video from the CNN studio here:
http://www.cnnturk.com/video/turkiye/cn ... i-kamerada
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by absinthe beginner » Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:11 am

Pretty unenviable position for ordinary foot-soldiers trained and conditioned to follow orders when they get caught up in political games not of their own making that brings them into conflict with their own countrymen.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... reets.html

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by raptor » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:06 am

A quote from Capt. Obvious comes to mind.

If you participate in a coup d'etat don't be on the losing side. If you are; be prepared to pay for your participation
with your life.

Losers in a coup are rarely granted much mercy.

Turkey abolished the death penalty but it will be interesting to see what winners do with the losers.

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by duodecima » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:21 am

Death toll at 181 most recently. Now the reactions (from a leader who, while democratically elected, already had a habit of cracking down hard on his opposition) - remove judges who support opposition.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 40661.html

Also, I ran across a discussion of why military coups are a thing in Turkey - apparently the head of the armed forces is neither the president nor the prime minister, and this is on purpose. The military's duty (apparently officially & legally) is to protect the republic & its people, including from a government that is a threat to Turkey's constitution.

So, while this is not at all the way we in the US are used to having a system of checks&balances structured, and clearly there are strengths & weaknesses in any system - this is not as completely illegal as it would have been in the US.

Also, in discussing the size/skill of the Turkish army, keep in mind there is compulsory male military service - this is not a 100%-volunteer professional force, which may account for some of the things that seem different.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by raptor » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

I received an email from a Turkish friend in Istanbul now. The following is strictly her opinion and I am passing it along not as fact but rather simply because she is on the ground there now.

She said a lot people in her circle of friends say "this is a false flag operation and will be used by the winners for their own purposes".

She also said a lot of other political things which I will not share. The note was rather in keeping with the video posted earlier in the thread.

What I will share was that she was outside when events got loud and scary. She had trouble getting home so she spent the night at a friend's place. The friend and his family were quite unset over the whole thing.

She said the internet connection and cell phones went dead so they were without news until this morning.

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:39 pm

The best post-game analysis that I have heard was that this was an analog coup in a digital world.

They've pointed out that the coup leaders took over the national TV station and read a statement that they were "in charge".

Meanwhile the Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan was vacationing at a seaside resort, recorded a video statement on his iPhone telling everyone he was still in charge and ordering his supporters into the streets and sent it out via social media.

Not only did they go into the streets but so did the other three political parties.

So the rebels did not shutdown the telecommunications nodes to prevent the use of the Internet. Sidenote:Egypt and Syria have both done that to suppress protest.

And it looks like the rebels did not have the heart to mow down civilians. They were looking to state a bloodless coup.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by raptor » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:42 pm

That is an interesting analogy.

Evan the Diplomat wrote: They were looking to state a bloodless coup.
Considering the number of casualties I think that aspect of the plan was not very successful.

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Stercutus » Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:07 pm

The PM is trying to extradite Gulen form the US.

Weird the "coup leader" that isn't actually at the coup and condemns it in the strongest possible terms while it is going on. Incredible it is that the PM was able to put together so much evidence of his treachery before the blood was even dry in the streets.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by DarkAxel » Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:29 pm

According to CNN, The airspace over Incirlik Air Base is closed. This is important, as US warplanes have been using the base to bomb ISIS targets in Syria.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by LowKey » Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:31 pm

Stercutus wrote:The PM is trying to extradite Gulen form the US.

Weird the "coup leader" that isn't actually at the coup and condemns it in the strongest possible terms while it is going on. Incredible it is that the PM was able to put together so much evidence of his treachery before the blood was even dry in the streets.
Hmmmmmm....does sound fishy, doesn't it?
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by Stercutus » Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:01 pm

DarkAxel wrote:According to CNN, The airspace over Incirlik Air Base is closed. This is important, as US warplanes have been using the base to bomb ISIS targets in Syria.
Sort of important. I think they were down to less than one drop a day when last I checked.
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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by teotwaki » Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:21 pm

Turkey's last hope dies

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/07/ ... -dies.html

Friday night’s failed coup was Turkey’s last hope to stop the Islamization of its government and the degradation of its society. Reflexively, Western leaders rushed to condemn a coup attempt they refused to understand. Their reward will be a toxic Islamist regime at the gates of Europe.

Our leaders no longer do their basic homework.The media relies on experts-by-Wikipedia. Except for PC platitudes, our schools ignore the world beyond our shores. Deluged with unreliable information, citizens succumb to the new superstitions of the digital age.

So a great country is destroyed by Islamist hardliners before our eyes—and our president praises its “democracy.”

That tragically failed coup was a forlorn hope, not an attempt to take over a country. Turkey is not a banana republic in which the military grasps the reins for its own profit. For almost a century, the Turkish armed forces have been the guardians of the country’s secular constitution. Most recently, coups in 1960, 1971 and 1980 (with “non-coup” pressure in 1997) saw the military intervene to prevent the country’s collapse.

Erdogan will use the coup as an excuse to accelerate the Islamization of his country and to lead Turkey deeper into the darkness engulfing the Muslim world. His vision is one of a neo-Ottoman megalomaniac.


Each time, the military returned the government to civilian rule as soon as that proved practical. My own first experience of Turkey came just before the 1980 coup. Turkey was broke and broken. The economy was in such a shambles that you could not buy a cup of Turkish coffee in Istanbul. I walked because taxis and public transportation had no fuel. Murderous political violence raged. Reluctantly, the generals stepped in and saved their country.

Friday night, mid-grade officers led a desperate effort to rescue their country again. They failed. The West cheered. Soon enough, we’ll mourn.

The coup leaders made disastrous mistakes, the worst of which was to imagine that the absence of President Erdogan from Ankara, the capital, presented the perfect opportunity. Wrong. In a coup, the key is to seize the leaders you mean to overthrow (as well as control of the media). Instead of fleeing into exile, Erdogan was able to return in triumph.

So who is the man our own president rushed to support because he was “democratically elected?” Recep Tayyip Erdogan is openly Islamist and affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood, which President Obama appears to believe represents the best hope for the Middle East. But the difference between ISIS, Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood isn’t one of purpose, but merely of manners: Muslim Brothers wash the blood off their hands before they sit down to dinner with their dupes.

With barely a murmured “Tut-tut!” from Western leaders, Erdogan has dismantled Turkey’s secular constitution (which the military is duty-bound to protect). His “democracy” resembles Putin’s, not ours. Key opposition figures have been driven into exile or banned. Opposition parties have been suppressed. Recent elections have not been held so much as staged. And Erdogan has torn the fresh scab from the Kurdish wound, fostering civil war in Turkey’s southeast for his own political advantage.

Erdogan has packed Turkey’s courts with Islamists. He appointed pliant, pro-Islamist generals and admirals, while staging show trials of those of whom he wished to rid the country. He has de facto, if not yet de jure, curtailed women’s freedoms. He dissolved the wall between mosque and state (Friday night, he used mosques’ loudspeakers to call his supporters into the streets). Not least, he had long allowed foreign fighters to transit Turkey to join ISIS and has aggressively backed other extremists whom he believed he could manage.

And his diplomatic extortion racket has degraded our own military efforts against ISIS.

That’s the man President Obama supports.

And the leaders of the ill-fated coup? What did they stand for? Mustafa Kemal Ataturk’s legacy and a secular constitution. One of the great men of the last century, Ataturk (an innovative general by background) pulled Turkey from the wreckage of World War One, abolished the caliphate, suppressed fanatical religious orders, gave women legal rights and social protections, banned the veil, promoted secular education for all citizens of Turkey, strongly advocated Westernization and modernization…and promoted a democratic future.

The officers who led the collapsed coup stood for all those things. President Obama and Secretary of State Kerry opposed them.

By Saturday morning, it was clear that the mullahs and mobs behind Erdogan had won. Erdogan will use the coup as an excuse to accelerate the Islamization of his country and to lead Turkey deeper into the darkness engulfing the Muslim world. His vision is one of a neo-Ottoman megalomaniac.

NATO, which operates by consensus, will find itself embracing a poisonous snake. New crises will reawaken old fears in southeastern Europe, which western European states will dismiss condescendingly, further crippling the badly limping European Union. Syria will continue to bleed. And educated, secular Turks will find themselves in a situation like unto that of German liberals in the 1930s. We may see new and unexpected wars.

A desperate, ill-planned coup has failed in Turkey. Here comes the darkness.

Fox News Strategic Analyst Ralph Peters is a retired U.S. Army officer and former enlisted man. He is the author of prize-winning fiction and non-fiction books on the Civil War and the military. His latest is "The Damned of Petersburg: A Novel" (Forge Books, June 28, 2016).

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by absinthe beginner » Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:51 pm

Islam taught in charter schools in the US: The Gulen movement. This sounds just slightly irregular.

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2011/971/

What Is the Gülen Movement?

Over the last twenty years there has been a movement in schools that has changed the way many children are educated—charter schools. Charter schools are public schools, Kindergarten through 12th grade, that receive public money, but are not subject to the same rules that apply to other public schools. In return, charter schools are accountable to achieve certain goals that are outlined in the school charter.

The goal of a charter school is to provide a better education than can be received though the normal public schools. Some of the schools specialize in certain fields; i.e., mathematics and the sciences. Attendance at charter schools is voluntary and the schools are not allowed to charge tuition. In most cases, the charter schools are doing well—59% of the schools have a waiting list to enroll.1

Within the charter school system, though, there is a danger. There is a group of charter schools that may be teaching more than ABC’s. They have innocuous names like Chicago Math and Science Academy and Pioneer Charter School of Science. Currently, they are educating as many as 35,000 students in 100 publicly funded schools and make up the largest charter school network in the United States. They promote an Islamic agenda, but receive government money, unlike other religious schools in the United States. These are the schools that are part of what is called Fethullah Gülen Community (FGC), also known as “the Gülen Movement.”

Over the past 10 years, the schools have imported thousands of Turkish educators to work in the schools, most of them with ties to a Turkish Muslim named Fethullah Gülen, who lives in a small Pennsylvania town called Saylorsburg. Gülen is described by his followers as a moderate Muslim and has been called “contemporary Islam’s Billy Graham.”2

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Re: Military coup d'etat in Turkey

Post by teotwaki » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:11 pm

absinthe beginner wrote:Islam taught in charter schools in the US: The Gulen movement.

They promote an Islamic agenda, but receive government money, unlike other religious schools in the United States. These are the schools that are part of what is called Fethullah Gülen Community (FGC), also known as “the Gülen Movement.”

I took a long look at the CMSA site and there definitely is no hint of Islam in pictures, curriculum, schedules, etc. so I guess it is a conspiracy. I dunno what this topic has to do with the coup

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