California Drought

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Re: California Drought

Post by Kommander » Sat May 30, 2015 6:34 pm

It's not the population density that's causing the problem. Agriculture use accounts for more than 75% of the fresh water used in California. This is why I find lawn watering restrictions and whatnot so laughable, as they are nothing but a bandaid on a bullet hole. Unfortunately any real solutions are, well, lets just call them politically impossible, at least until things get much worse. I really do need to get a hold of some water storage stuff, and one can not drink ammo.
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Re: California Drought

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sat May 30, 2015 6:38 pm

Do commercial lawns (golf courses, monuments, places where the grounds are maintained commercially but not for crops) counted as agricultural use? I have literally no idea and am failing at Boolean logic.
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Re: California Drought

Post by Kommander » Sat May 30, 2015 7:22 pm

I really don't think so. According to this chart I think it would most likely fall under large landscaping, which uses one percent of the water. It does warrant further digging though.
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Re: California Drought

Post by zero11010 » Sat May 30, 2015 7:26 pm

Kommander wrote:It's not the population density that's causing the problem. Agriculture use accounts for more than 75% of the fresh water used in California. This is why I find lawn watering restrictions and whatnot so laughable, as they are nothing but a bandaid on a bullet hole. Unfortunately any real solutions are, well, lets just call them politically impossible, at least until things get much worse. I really do need to get a hold of some water storage stuff, and one can not drink ammo.
Aww, don't go trying to bring facts that were included in the first page of information into this.

If the guy was going to be swayed by logic, or facts, we wouldn't be having this kind of conversation to begin with.

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Re: California Drought

Post by Supervisor42 » Sat May 30, 2015 7:49 pm

Kommander wrote:... I really do need to get a hold of some water storage stuff, and one can not drink ammo.
Now that is preparation.
I love your avatar by the way. I'm also one that has functioning radiation detectors.
On topic: I guess I should start sending my pee to California since I have been so mean and "modified" all of my 'low-flow' water devices :twisted:.
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Re: California Drought

Post by xmasons » Sun May 31, 2015 11:33 am

Supervisor42 wrote:(that may explain the abundance of 'girly-men' though)
Can you help me understand what you're trying to say here? I'd be curious what your definition is.

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Re: California Drought

Post by zero11010 » Sun May 31, 2015 1:41 pm

xmasons wrote:
Supervisor42 wrote:(that may explain the abundance of 'girly-men' though)
Can you help me understand what you're trying to say here? I'd be curious what your definition is.
Let's not side track the conversation. You're welcome to ask him in PM, though I don't think there are any surprises waiting under the surface.

Supervisor42, you may not last on these boards to your 20th post at this rate.

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Re: California Drought

Post by Supervisor42 » Sun May 31, 2015 4:37 pm

xmasons wrote:Can you help me understand what you're trying to say here? I'd be curious what your definition is.
Sure.
Radiation detectors detect radiation which cannot be seen, heard, felt, smelled, or tasted.
It's possible to go outside into a lethal environment, like your backyard, and it would be exactly like it is today.
Without a functioning radiation detector you could die needlessly.
On topic: people dying from radiation sickness look just like Zombies but are not contagious.
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Re: California Drought

Post by JerryOnly » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:43 am

San Diego's new desalination plant can produce 50 million gallons of drinking water a day. (Expensive gallons)
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Re: California Drought

Post by Wraith6761 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:40 am

JerryOnly wrote:San Diego's new desalination plant can produce 50 million gallons of drinking water a day. (Expensive gallons)
Did they ever get past all the protesting about turning those plants on? I seem to remember some activist group (Green Peace maybe?) going on last year about how these plants were going to damage the ecosystem by killing fish or something, and trying to get a court order to prevent the desalination plants from getting used.

EDIT: Found the stories.

http://www.gazettenet.com/businessmoney ... t-in-calif
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html
http://www.ibtimes.com/california-water ... 15-1795834
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Re: California Drought

Post by MacAttack » Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:28 pm

I looked into it.

The California cattle industry exports almost 50% of its cattle. Of that 80% is sent to Japan. The rest goes to China and the other US states.

Only 50% of its grain harvest is used for the cattle industry. Which only supplies 50% of what the industry needs to feed the cattle. They import the rest.

California sends almost 100% of its Duran Semolina grain overseas to Italy and Somalia.

California is running its grain mills at close to 100% capacity but only produces 50% of what the mills need. The rest is imported from other states.


The only reason California Cattle is sent to Japan is because its price is kept cheap by the abundance of almost free water available to the California ranches and farms. Japan charges far more for its water to its agriculture industry than the California does.

Add in the cheap labor of illegal immigrants.


California cattle prices will never effect the rest of the US cattle prices as much as it will effect the prices in Japan and thus the profit of California.


If California used everything it produced inside of California it might be ecologically OK but it would still need to import water soon because of its massive population expansion.

From what I can find out a huge amount of California's agricultural exports go overseas to the Orient. All for huge profits and thus taxes.

Their drought in almost no way effects us in Ohio. I can easily live without Californian fruits and nuts.




The fact is it has taken almost 20 years to get those desalination plants up and running. They have in fact sat unfinished for years because of environmental protests and only now has actual need started to exceed their pressure. They could have been working against this day for the last 20 years.

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Re: California Drought

Post by Kommander » Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:42 pm

MacAttack do us a favor and post links to where you got that info from. I always like to get data as close to the source as I can, within reason.
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Re: California Drought

Post by mark9atq » Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:17 pm

I think being geared up to be self sufficient on the day when no more water
comes out of the faucet is a worthy goal.
One idea with promise is Atmospheric Water Condensers.
Run on solar panels and you suddenly have the freedom to bug out to the wasteland.
Minimizing the chance encounter with zombies. The good thing is every home already has one.
Its called a refrigerator.
Leave the doors open with it 'on' and the freezer vanes will condense water out of the air.
Turn it off and the frost will melt off to be collected for use. Some modification to collect
the water will be needed but thirst can be the mother of invention.

A medium size Dehumidifier would do the same and be more portable.
A kilowatt or 2 of solar would probably be needed to run it.

Many people who read Frank Herbert's scifi novel Dune remember the 'stilsuit'.
Its idea was to capture water lost from breathing and sweat off the skin to keep a person
alive for weeks without the need for any external water source. Maybe someday.

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Re: California Drought

Post by zero11010 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:07 am

MacAttack wrote:I looked into it.
I'd love to see some more solid information on what you've presented above as well.

The information you're showing is also only looking at a small piece of the puzzle. I feel like I would be repeating myself to go over all of it in any kind of detail again. The food produced in California is more than any one thing. The economical hit to California from a sustained drought would go much, much farther than just food. It would be amazingly foolish to think that food product would be the only impact outside of California if there was a continued severe drought in California.

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Re: California Drought

Post by zero11010 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:16 am

Two counties in the Bay Area (including cities like Oakland and Berkeley) are increasing the cost of all water to offset the loss in revenue from reduced water consumption.

There are 12 different states with less total population than the population being impacted by the price increase for water here.

A 24% drought surcharge is being added (there is also a separate and additional 8% price increase across the board).

Any potential increases in the cost for municipal water may be on top of this increase. For example, lots of areas have been trying to find ways to increase the cost of water as a whole to deter people from using large amounts of it. Some attempts to do this have been shut down so far. Basically, the goal is to take people who are using an average amount of water (say 90 gallons per person per day) and leave their bills alone. Then have different, and higher pricing for water that goes above that.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/3 ... 317270.php

"East Bay residents will see an average 24 percent hike in their water bills, starting next month, after the East Bay Municipal Utility District on Tuesday approved a bump in rates, largely to make up for revenue lost during the drought.
The agency, which expects to generate $1.8 billion for operations over the next two years, has brought in less money recently as customers cut back their water use amid the statewide call for conservation.
At its meeting Tuesday, the agency’s governing board unanimously approved a temporary 25 percent drought surcharge on the metered portion of the bill to cover expected losses, as well as a long-planned permanent rate hike of 8 percent, on average, across the whole bill, to replace aging infrastructure and pay down debt on water projects.
The typical household, using 246 gallons of water per day, will see its monthly bill rise a little less than $12 — to $60, according to the agency.
EBMUD provides drinking water to about 1.3 million people in Alameda and Contra Costa counties."

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Re: California Drought

Post by bc99 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:33 am

MacAttack wrote:I looked into it.

The California cattle industry exports almost 50% of its cattle. Of that 80% is sent to Japan. The rest goes to China and the other US states.

Only 50% of its grain harvest is used for the cattle industry. Which only supplies 50% of what the industry needs to feed the cattle. They import the rest.

California sends almost 100% of its Duran Semolina grain overseas to Italy and Somalia.

California is running its grain mills at close to 100% capacity but only produces 50% of what the mills need. The rest is imported from other states.


The only reason California Cattle is sent to Japan is because its price is kept cheap by the abundance of almost free water available to the California ranches and farms. Japan charges far more for its water to its agriculture industry than the California does.

Add in the cheap labor of illegal immigrants.


California cattle prices will never effect the rest of the US cattle prices as much as it will effect the prices in Japan and thus the profit of California.


If California used everything it produced inside of California it might be ecologically OK but it would still need to import water soon because of its massive population expansion.

From what I can find out a huge amount of California's agricultural exports go overseas to the Orient. All for huge profits and thus taxes.

Their drought in almost no way effects us in Ohio. I can easily live without Californian fruits and nuts.




The fact is it has taken almost 20 years to get those desalination plants up and running. They have in fact sat unfinished for years because of environmental protests and only now has actual need started to exceed their pressure. They could have been working against this day for the last 20 years.
Unfortunately just check the following link:

http://www.nass.usda.gov/Statistics_by_ ... as-all.pdf

California is the leading producer of a staggering amount of agricultural commodities, and makes up a healthy portion of many more. I fear a continued drought will impact more than fruit and nuts, although it doesn't surprise me that most of the cattle and grain crops leave the state for big asian profits.

I live in this state and we're facing a local water crisis (like the majority of California counties). There is big money in the local agriculture (grapes/strawberries) and water is becoming very political. New water districts are being drawn up, and it will affect the small farmer, the homestead, etc. But that's politics everywhere now adays. Money talks... water walks?

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Re: California Drought

Post by procyon » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:51 am

Nice link.

I didn't realize we (Iowa) were #2 in the nation in agriculture ($) receipts.

And I wouldn't have known that CA represents 21% of milk production.
If that takes a hit, my house will likely feel it. With our pack of kids, we go through a lot of milk.
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Re: California Drought

Post by sheddi » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:16 pm

A polite reminder to keep this thread civil, on-topic and free of politics (amongst other things).

There have been several posts on this thread reported to the mods. So far you've all managed to keep it on the rails so I'm going to close these reports without issuing any warnings or even naming names. Try to keep it so.

Thank you for your attention.
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Re: California Drought

Post by Asymetryczna » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:31 pm

I truly hope I do not see this thread continuously updated over the next few years. The drought really does affect all of us whether we can see it or not.
Dune was something that popped into my head recently, as well, reading about the drought.

It makes me wonder if some of the livestock would be able to graze on property that is unaffected by the drought:
http://pagesix.com/2015/05/09/3941513/
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Re: California Drought

Post by Kommander » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:59 am

Asymetryczna I know that looks bad, but honestly the water use there is negligible. We could do away with all lawn watering in the state and it would not even begin to cover the shortfall.
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Re: California Drought

Post by raistlin » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:01 pm

Asymetryczna wrote:I truly hope I do not see this thread continuously updated over the next few years. The drought really does affect all of us whether we can see it or not.
Dune was something that popped into my head recently, as well, reading about the drought.
Maybe everyone in CA could start wearing stillsuits and drink the water reclaimed from their own processed sweat and urine. :)
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Re: California Drought

Post by Boondock » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:55 pm

In somewhat related water/drought news:
ROME (Thomson Reuters Foundation) - Human water use is sucking dry around a third of the world's largest underground water basins at an alarming rate, with potentially risky consequences for farmers and other consumers, researchers said.
Full article: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/ ... B220150617

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Re: California Drought

Post by Valarius » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:32 pm

Good news!

A lot of California cities are saving more water than they were ordered to. People are listening and conserving.

http://ca.gov/drought/topstory/top-story-41.html
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Re: California Drought

Post by BadLands_Shooter » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:05 am

40% of California water goes to saving bait fish'. Thanks, liberals.
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