Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protests

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Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protests

Post by Murphman » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:21 am

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/ ... 8H20141009

Let's try to keep this thread civil folks. Please.
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by Stercutus » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:53 am

Here we go again:
"He had a sandwich in his hand, and they thought it was a gun. It's like Michael Brown all over again," she told the paper. Police have not named the teenager.
Police said the 18-year-old was armed and fired three shots while he was being chased by the officer, and they had recovered a gun at the scene.
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by SCBrian » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:00 am

The full quote from above:
Teyonna Myers, 23, told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch newspaper that she was the cousin of the suspect and that he was unarmed when he was killed.
"He had a sandwich in his hand, and they thought it was a gun. It's like Michael Brown all over again," she told the paper. Police have not named the teenager.
Not saying outright it was a biased source, but...

I'm gonna chalk it up to "play stupid games, win stupid prizes"
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by RepoMan73 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:14 am

And here's the rest of the rest of the quote (from https://gma.yahoo.com/unrest-st-louis-p ... ories.html)
Wednesday's shooting happened at about 7:30 p.m. in the city's Shaw Neighborhood, and involved an officer working a department-approved secondary job for a private security company, Police Chief Sam Dotson said at an early-morning news conference.


The officer approached a group of men. One of the men took off running, Dotson said, so the officer pursued. Dotson said the suspect approached the officer in an "aggressive" manner, with a physical altercation occurring. The man then turned and fired three rounds at the officer before his gun jammed, Dotson said.

The officer, who was not injured, returned fire, shooting 17 times and fatally wounding the man, Dotson said.
They can protest all they want but when you shoot at an officer, the officer will defend himself. Every time. No amount of riots will change that.
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by SCBrian » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:15 am

Digging: Fox has these snippets:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/10/09/po ... e-on-him/
Lt. Col. Alfred Adkins said. "The officer approached, they got into a struggle, they ended up into a gangway, at which time the young man pulled a weapon and shots were fired. The officer returned fire and unfortunately the young man was killed."

Ballistic evidence recovered from the scene indicates that the man fired three rounds at the officer before his weapon jammed, Dotson said, adding that the gun was also recovered.
St Louis Dispatch:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 26f7e.html
The teen had a gun and fired at least three shots at the officer, who returned fire, the chief said. The teenager attempted to fire more but his gun jammed, Dotson said.

The officer was unhurt. The officer fired 17 times, Dotson said. It is unclear how many times the teenager was struck.

Police said they recovered a 9mm Ruger.
And this snippet (Facepalm)
Myers was scheduled to stand trial in November for unlawful use of a weapon and resisting arrest. According to court documents, the incident happened June 27 in St. Louis. In early July, Myers was released on bail after posting $1,000 cash bond. His bail originally was set at $30,000 but was dropped to $10,000 after a judge agreed it was excessive. She allowed Myers to post 10 percent of that in cash. As a condition of bail, Myers was supposed to be under house arrest and wear an electronic ankle monitor.

A private monitoring firm, Eastern Missouri Alternative Sentencing Services, Inc., was supposed to monitor Myers' movements and contact the court if he violated the rules. Nothing in the court file indicates any violations.
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by SCBrian » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:16 am

Saw that one Repoman, good quote. Facts seem pretty laid out... Shoot at officers and they are not going to toss daises at you..
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by Stercutus » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:37 am

But his gun was jammed! They should have waited till he had time to clear the malfunction.
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by SCBrian » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:41 am

Stercutus wrote:But his gun was jammed! They should have waited till he had time to clear the malfunction.
True, I thought Rugers were better than that though... :lol:
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by Wraith6761 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:50 am

Sigh...another one? Just what that area needed, another reason for people to act like complete morons...
news article wrote:At one point, about a dozen people punched and kicked two occupied police vehicles, one that was marked and another that was unmarked. Demonstrators then broke the back window of a marked police vehicle.

None of the protesters, some of whom were from Ferguson, had been arrested by the early hours of Thursday, police chief Dotson told a news conference.

"I think the department showed a tremendous amount of restraint," Dotson said.
I have to agree that there was a lot of restraint shown, usually breaking out a window is enough to get at least a citation if not a full-blown trip to jail...wonder if it was due to not having the manpower there to "safely" deal with the number of protesters, or if they just decided to let it slide in hopes that the crowd wouldn't do anything worse...I'm assuming the former, but if it's the latter that PD should remember that appeasement is almost always a potentially very dangerous tactic and shouldn't be depended on for long.
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by WutsFrequencyKeneth » Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:35 pm

The posts about whether or not the shoot was 'good' are completely irrelevant, folks.

The threat is real. There were violent, angry, protesters blocking major roads through the area, police setting up barricades, and reports all over the damn place of gunshots. Officer vehicles were vandalized. I saw unconfirmed (key word) reports of officers getting into physical altercations with protesters.

This isn't justice squad, nor a subsection of the forum dedicated to armchair lawyering the facts (which are not available to us) of the case to decide guilt or innocence, so please, cut the shit out.

Also, can we not shit on a persons death and make jokes of his demise? Pretty fucking rude, if you ask me.

Let's try to focus on keeping abreast of the current events, keeping chatter about getting by in the area, and suggestions for avoiding the harmful end of these events. I'm betting that this doesn't end so quickly. There's a large portion of the people of St Louis who do not have any trust in the police force in general- not just Ferguson PD. This might be a re-ignition of riotous urges.

If this event doesn't affect you, if you don't live near it, or in general have no stake in the event, maybe you could leave this thread for those who do have a vested interest in the topic, and are actually in a situation where they're nearly dodging bullets being shot because of the event. Ok?

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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by manowar1313 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:49 pm

I'd still like to see this investigated and the "Facts" proven. I can also see the family's point, why did the patrolman approach and how was it not profiling? I'm also curious that since the officer was not working in an official capacity did he have the authority? When does assaulting someone (ripping off their jacket) become stand your ground? I think if it has to be determined the officer had probable cause to stop him otherwise everything else is a joke...
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by Woods Walker » Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:45 pm

WutsFrequencyKeneth wrote:
If this event doesn't affect you, if you don't live near it, or in general have no stake in the event, maybe you could leave this thread for those who do have a vested interest in the topic, and are actually in a situation where they're nearly dodging bullets being shot because of the event. Ok?
People are free to comment on this or any thread so long as they comply with the rules.
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by Jeriah » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:16 pm

Do I understand DICE accurately, in that the part we should be talking about is the part where this situation poses a risk to our survival? And to that end, the topic consists of the following two parts:

1. The risk of being shot or otherwise harmed by Law Enforcement Officers, and strategies for avoiding this. I would divide this into three sub-categories:

1a: Don't be a criminal. This will drastically reduce your risk of being shot by LEOs.
1b: Don't be mistaken for a criminal, and don't do anything that LEOs could interpret as a threat, e.g. sudden movements.
1c: Be aware of the possibility of police misconduct/brutality/bad shoots, while giving good cops the benefit of the doubt.

2. The risk of being harmed in various ways by rioters, or having one's routine disrupted by protestors, even if peaceful. This discussion would consist of:

2a: Status report on the protests/riots/etc.
2b: Discussion of precautions and responses to the above.

Discussions of whether, in a particular case, a police shooting was justified, may not be relevant to preparation for or response to civil unrest in the wake of said shooting.

The issues in Part 1 are pretty universal. We don't have a lot of death-by-cop here in Flagstaff, though there was recently a case of a mentally disturbed individual dying in police custody a couple of days ago. There are a lot of issues pertaining to that case, and the main one seems to be a mental health issue, i.e. if you act crazy the cops might kill you, even, as in this case, unintentionally; it was a Tazer-related fatality I believe.

In other areas, though, it's common enough to be worth talking about. Chicago has a pretty serious history of cops basically torturing people into making false confessions, beating people up and "hiding behind the badge" afterwards, drunkenly pulling a gun on a cabbie to skip out on a fare, etc. Interaction with Chicago cops could almost be a discussion unto itself, probably worthy of ZS:20. And bearing in mind of course that most cops, even in Chicago, are good cops, at least I'd like to think so, and some of our members in that area may be LEO's themselves.

Albuquerque NM is going through a lot of issues right now re: police violence. I'm not exposed to it directly but a few of my friends are. In almost any area, and it's shitty that this is the case but I must admit: To a large extent I am sheltered from the consequences of police violence (whether justified, accidental, or malicious) by virtue of the fact that I am a.) white, and b.) relatively doin' okay on the ol' socio-economic ladder.

Here in Flagstaff, cops tend to give me the benefit of the doubt, except when driving near downtown at night, when they assume everyone is driving drunk. To be fair, an absurd percentage of people ARE driving drunk in this town. So they'll pull you over on the slightest pretense, but once they see that you are not, in fact, drunk, they tend to let you go with a mild warning (for the tiny traffic infraction that isn't worth ticketing, but gave them the PC to pull you over to see if you were drunk). Flag doesn't have a lot of racial tension; the big social issue here are Native people suffering from alcoholism, and the cops here tend to be pretty compassionate towards them. I don't tend to see cops hassling the drunks, and reading the police scanner feeds, interactions tend to be with a.) drunk drivers, b.) drunks requiring medical assistance, and c.) drunks fighting. These drunks include Natives, college students, and "college-age" non-students drinking at the bars. Again, in all cases, it seems the cops here take a "let's help these people" attitude, busting the drunk drivers, getting the passed-out drunks medical attention, and breaking up the fights.

But again, this is from the perspective of a white male, not dealing with mental illness, homelessness, or other problems. People in those positions might have a different perspective. As, of course, might the cops.

All of this is going to be different in St. Louis, of course, and it seems like "Be careful, especially if you're Black" would be good advice when interacting with LEOs there. I'm not saying "...because the cops are racist murderers," so please don't read that in there. But it may be (okay, definitely is) that ethnic minorities get less of a benefit of the doubt in some situations.

If we had some St. Louis LEOs on here it would be great to hear their perspectives, too.
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by WutsFrequencyKeneth » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:22 pm

Woods Walker wrote:
WutsFrequencyKeneth wrote:
If this event doesn't affect you, if you don't live near it, or in general have no stake in the event, maybe you could leave this thread for those who do have a vested interest in the topic, and are actually in a situation where they're nearly dodging bullets being shot because of the event. Ok?
People are free to comment on this or any thread so long as they comply with the rules.
Like staying on topic? Is that a rule? I can't tell.



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SCBrian: I didn't mean to say it's only relevant to people in the geographical vicinity. The "or" in the statement was unclear apparently, sorry. I meant to say that any one of the three things were the more pertinent. People making jokes or BS'ing in this thread only serve to water-down and dilute any USEFUL conversation. I hate that I'm continuing this thread of conversation, but it apparently merited clarification.

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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by SCBrian » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:31 pm

WutsFrequencyKeneth wrote:
Woods Walker wrote:
WutsFrequencyKeneth wrote:
If this event doesn't affect you, if you don't live near it, or in general have no stake in the event, maybe you could leave this thread for those who do have a vested interest in the topic, and are actually in a situation where they're nearly dodging bullets being shot because of the event. Ok?
People are free to comment on this or any thread so long as they comply with the rules.
Like staying on topic? Is that a rule? I can't tell.



Jeriah: Thank you.


SCBrian: I didn't mean to say it's only relevant to people in the geographical vicinity. The "or" in the statement was unclear apparently, sorry. I meant to say that any one of the three things were the more pertinent. People making jokes or BS'ing in this thread only serve to water-down and dilute any USEFUL conversation. I hate that I'm continuing this thread of conversation, but it apparently merited clarification.
I have no problem with you hitting the jokes, he removed them, case closed. The statement however was pretty clear, otherwise a mod wouldn't have stepped in to clarify.
What I'm interested in is how a statement of "He only had a sandwich (Said the cousin)" has more validity than "Ballistic evidence recovered from the scene indicates that the man fired three rounds at the officer before his weapon jammed, Dotson said, adding that the gun was also recovered. (Said the investigator)" And I'm taking a strong dislike to the LEO bashing. Especially since it's against the core rules here...
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by crypto » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:33 pm

The police have recovered a (stolen) 9mm that the dead guy was allegedly using to shoot at the cop, as well as the shell casings that allegedly came out of the gun, and have dug 3 bullets out of the ground and a nearby car that allegedly came from the gun.

Strictly as background info, the dead man was under house arrest for a felony gun violation earlier in the year. The police have said, however, that leaving the house to get food is permissible, and he was confirmed to have bought the sandwich at a local shop.



In relation to the protests: I hopped on a livestream to follow them, and fired up the scanner as this was happening about a mile from my house and the shooting took place across the street from a friend's house.

Many of the protestors were Saint Louis University college kids who live in the area. Some of them are out of towners who had already travelled to St. Louis to participate in large #ferguson protests this weekend.

The protests, while loud, were almost entirely peaceful, with one cop car suffering rock damage and a few more that got dented or lights kicked out. Protestors were solely angry at police and didn't light anything on fire this time. Outside of the actual protest, there was an uptick in local random gunfire last night, several of my friends in the area called the police because they heard shots near their homes. Again though, shots were not coming from a crowd of people, just more than usual amounts of the usual south city gunfire.
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by crypto » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:35 pm

Stercutus wrote:But his gun was jammed! They should have waited till he had time to clear the malfunction.
Thats hard to do when you're carrying a sandwich, apparently. No word on whether the sandwich caused the jam though.
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by Phoenix David » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:01 pm

The officer, who was not injured, returned fire, shooting 17 times and fatally wounding the man, Dotson said.
17 times? That seems a bit excessive to me. How many hit?
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by manowar1313 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:09 pm

SCBrian wrote: What I'm interested in is how a statement of "He only had a sandwich (Said the cousin)" has more validity than "Ballistic evidence recovered from the scene indicates that the man fired three rounds at the officer before his weapon jammed, Dotson said, adding that the gun was also recovered. (Said the investigator)" And I'm taking a strong dislike to the LEO bashing. Especially since it's against the core rules here...
So you what, want them to stop the investigation before it even begins? How about swabbing his hand for GSR, since I've known dirty cops to carry a recovered gun to plant... just in case. The police need to investigate because there's only one side of the story because the other person is dead. I'm not saying this guy was innocent or that the police are guilty but that this guy is dead and all murders whether justified or not deserve an thorough investigation.

Also "LEO bashing" as you put it is not against the forum rules. Ask honest questions about the workings of our police departments, voicing opinions of concern and making statements against police abuse are all allowed on this forum.
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by woodsghost » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:00 pm

I too think anti-LEO sentiment has increased, both on this site and in society. As to reasons why, that gets a bit political.

Honestly, I think LEOs have actually got better over the last 40 years. Cameras, litigation, and the internet are probably responsible for that, much as I hate to sat "litigation" accomplished anything good. You have to give credit where credit is due.

Really, the majority of the individual men and women are decent enough folk.

More so today than 10 years ago, I believe in holding those with power accountable. That has less to do with the number of abuses of power by LEOs (which have probably gone down) and more to do with changes in how I see the world. Changes in my outlook and experiences.
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by Woods Walker » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:17 pm

WutsFrequencyKeneth wrote:
Woods Walker wrote:
WutsFrequencyKeneth wrote:
If this event doesn't affect you, if you don't live near it, or in general have no stake in the event, maybe you could leave this thread for those who do have a vested interest in the topic, and are actually in a situation where they're nearly dodging bullets being shot because of the event. Ok?
People are free to comment on this or any thread so long as they comply with the rules.
Like staying on topic? Is that a rule? I can't tell.
Off topic posts would be against the rules however you didn't specify that in your statement. My advice is to report any posts you feel are off-topic.
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by SCBrian » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:26 pm

manowar1313 wrote:
SCBrian wrote: What I'm interested in is how a statement of "He only had a sandwich (Said the cousin)" has more validity than "Ballistic evidence recovered from the scene indicates that the man fired three rounds at the officer before his weapon jammed, Dotson said, adding that the gun was also recovered. (Said the investigator)" And I'm taking a strong dislike to the LEO bashing. Especially since it's against the core rules here...
So you what, want them to stop the investigation before it even begins? How about swabbing his hand for GSR, since I've known dirty cops to carry a recovered gun to plant... just in case. The police need to investigate because there's only one side of the story because the other person is dead. I'm not saying this guy was innocent or that the police are guilty but that this guy is dead and all murders whether justified or not deserve an thorough investigation.
No, I'm saying there was a preliminary investigation already, with a found gun & casings. By all means, continue the investigation, but your statements from before seem to lead to a mind that's already made up:
manowar1313 wrote: I'd still like to see this investigated and the "Facts" proven. I can also see the family's point, why did the patrolman approach and how was it not profiling? I'm also curious that since the officer was not working in an official capacity did he have the authority? When does assaulting someone (ripping off their jacket) become stand your ground? I think if it has to be determined the officer had probable cause to stop him otherwise everything else is a joke...
manowar1313 wrote: Also "LEO bashing" as you put it is not against the forum rules. Ask honest questions about the workings of our police departments, voicing opinions of concern and making statements against police abuse are all allowed on this forum.
Uhhh, Actually it is, You did stop by and read the forum rules, didn't you?
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19895#p2233283
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ZS is a not for profit entity dedicated to helping all interested people and communities prepare for disasters. Accordingly statements disparaging people, religions, communities, cultures and countries as well as any statements that are, in the opinion of the ZS moderators, contrary to that stated mission are not permitted on the forum.

ZS does not support or permit any form of xenophobic philosophy and/or overtly hateful statements which disparage people, cultures, communities and countries. This prohibition against such hateful and/or xenophobic statements include but are not limited to statements against: ZS forum members, racism, sexism, ageism, anti-Semitism, homophobia, and/or one based on someone's occupation, origins, culture/personal beliefs.

To be clear this extends to bashing countries, LEOs, military personnel and other ZS forum members.
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by SCBrian » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:40 pm

I think the biggest issue is you have a culture (read: this extends beyond race) there that will use any excuse as an attempt to riot/steal/destroy. The cop just gives them a convenient cause du jour. They are rioting before any investigation is done, before any facts are laid out, solely on the fact that a white cop shot a black kid.
Here is a convenient map of the 'homicides' in STL in 2014
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 6191e.html

I count 6(?) light blue "Officer involved shootings", but there is the proverbial Sh!t ton of other colors...
Last edited by SCBrian on Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Another Police Shooting in St. Louis Triggers New Protes

Post by Woods Walker » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:45 pm

I removed some posts which were IMO off-topic. Please remain on topic and leave the moderation to the moderators. If you feel a violation of the rules has occurred use the report function.

Thanks.

Kevin.
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"There's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing"
"Do not mess with the forces of Nature, for thou art small and biodegradable!"

Best of Woods Walker's posts.

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