Lots of sick kids

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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by SCBrian » Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:25 pm

/Ot - Is there a post in this thread other than browngin35's quoted post or the one still showing that we are not seeing? I see no "Thinly veiled racism" in the existing posts?

/Back on topic
As our knowledge in science and medicine increase our ability to detect one form of a virus from another increases. I cant remember where, and I'm not going to track it down, but I read that we were just recently able to start separating this virus from the main complex with precision...
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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by Mikeyboy » Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:25 pm

Old_Man wrote:http://www.cdc.gov/mmwR/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6038a1.htm

HEV68 was first recorded in 1962 in California, and has since popped up all over the world, just not in very large clusters. I would be more worried about why US kids are becoming more susceptible (since it seems most are little effected unless respiratory system is already compromised) than some theory that border kids brought it across. More likely it has been wandering quietly around the US, not causing much problem until now.

As a side note... It doesn't seem to have occurred in the border kids countries of origin...
+1

Going off topic for a second, I agree it SEEMS more kids have more issues with things like Asthma and allergies then in past generations. However I don't know if there is a direct factor like more pollution or kids do not get outside as much as in the past, or if its just a misguided perception that maybe its a combo of lack of diagnosis and treatment back in the day.

Now getting back on target, like others have mentioned EV-68 has been around for at least since 1968 and comes and goes in severity in the US. This year it hit and for most people (how don't already have immunity because they caught it before) it will fell like nothing more than a bad cold with some flu like body aches and cough. Its those that already have compromised lung issues (Asthma) and those with compromised immunity that you have to watch out for.

also for the record while I seen no mention in it in the news yet, it has definitely spread outside the boundaries of the US Midwest and is now hitting the Northeast. It ran thru my kids' school in PA and hospitalized at least one kid so far.

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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by NamelessStain » Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:36 pm

There could be tons of factors for increased infections from environmental to changes in eating habits.

It's the mutation of viruses which is the biggest cause or else the common cold would have been eliminated years ago imo.
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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by crypto » Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:36 pm

NamelessStain wrote:
jnathan wrote:I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus. But I will say "The admin team apologizes for a hiccup this morning. Despite our combined 65+ years in industry from just 4 people, we do make mistakes. Our bad!"
Please don't do that, speaking down to me like I'm some inferior non-geek. I've been in the IT world since 94, that's 20 years.

Have a nice day.

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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by TacAir » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:17 pm

Twelve children in Delaware are being tested for a rare respiratory virus that has already been blamed for sickening possibly hundreds of children in the Midwest.

and

The Philadelphia Inquirer reports that 10 children in New Castle County, Del., one in Kent County and one in Sussex County are being tested for the virus.

Oddly -

The Inquirer said that though there are only 82 confirmed cases, hospitals are reporting treating hundreds of children whose symptoms match those of the virus. CDC testing can't keep up?

I find it interesting that the vast majority of stories on this "virus outbreak" are found, not on medical sites, but on third line (as best) "news" sites and blogs with an obvious axe to grind.
(shrug)

Seem to keep spreading. Or at least the reporting is spreading in the news is news department....

ETA - I'm tracking this because my Frau is working in a public school this winter. I want to be on top of the signs/symptoms - treatment, so far, is symptomatic.
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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by crypto » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:25 pm

Yeah, treatment is palliative care; it's a novel virus, which is a double whammy against being able to do anything proactive about it.

Missouri has kind of been ground zero for this spate of cases, lots of cases from KC or Columbia MO.

This article has some harder numbers in it than most, but they're all regionally based: http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/07/health/re ... s-midwest/

While CDC can in fact walk and chew gum at the same time, I suspect most of their surge capacity has been taken up helping out with Ebola. EV-D68 is, when you get down to it, just a particularly nasty summer cold.
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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by jnathan » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:42 pm

NamelessStain wrote:
Please don't do that, speaking down to me like I'm some inferior non-geek. I've been in the IT world since 94, that's 20 years.

Have a nice day.
Aww, don't think we were being rude or insensitive, I make no assumptions about who I'm speaking with on the forums. That and I don't actually know how long the others have been doing what they do. We're probably closer to 80 years amongst the 4 of us. :)

Crypto explained the issue already so I'll skip that part. ;)

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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by TacAir » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:30 am

SNIP
States with Confirmed EV-D68 Infections

From mid-August to September 15, 2014, a total of 104 people from 10 states were confirmed to have respiratory illness caused by EV-D68. The 10 states are Alabama, Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri, and New York. The cases of EV-D68 infection were confirmed by the CDC or state public health laboratories that notified CDC

In the upcoming weeks, more states will have confirmed cases of EV-D68 infection. The primary reason for increases in cases is that several states are investigating clusters of people with severe respiratory illness, and specimens are still being tested for EV-D68. It can take a while to test specimens and obtain lab results. That’s because the testing is complex and slower, and can only be done by CDC and a small number of state public health laboratories. As the backlog of specimens is processed, the number of states and confirmed cases will likely increase. These increases will not necessarily reflect changes in real time, or mean that the situation is getting worse.

Some of the increase will be from new EV-D68 infections since people are more likely to get infected with enteroviruses in the summer and fall. We are currently in the middle of the enterovirus season.
As investigations progress, we will have a better understanding of the trends for EV-D68 infections.
SNIP - Up to 104 lab-confirmed cases, amongst the CDC-estimated 10-15 million annual US cases of non-polio enteroviruses.

So my question, if we have 10 million cases of non-polio enterovirus in the US annually, why is this one strain getting so much attention? What am I missing?

Edit: forgot to paste the URL between URL code tags. Whoops.[/quote]

How about it's "news"? That is to say, once a topic seems to get some public interest - more 'places' (TV, AP etc) report on the subject de jour. This in turn, generates more interest and so it feeds on itself.

I call it the green bug symptom. Once you start looking for green VW bugs, well, they seem to be everywhere.

BTW - 104 lab confirmed cases isn't all the cases, hundreds have been reported by medical workers, the CDC just hasn't confirm every single one....
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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:34 am

TacAir wrote:BTW - 104 lab confirmed cases isn't all the cases, hundreds have been reported by medical workers, the CDC just hasn't confirm every single one....
Absolutely following there, CDC's 104 is only cases reported to CDC that have been confirmed to be EV-D68 and not a different enterovirus. With the 10,000,000 enterovirus estimate, I'd easily expect several thousand cases of this particular one, but as it seems to be a mild respiratory illness, the wave of reporting in prep communities is sort of worrying. I don't watch TV news generally, but I did hear it mentioned on NPR. Feels like it's being blown out of proportion is all.
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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by crypto » Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:21 am

I think that all indications are that its a particularly nasty novel summer virus, but not anything to be really alarmed about at the present time. Hospital admissions are up, but I would expect that number to rise as worried parents see more and more news about EV-D68 and get panicked.
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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by Old_Man » Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:33 am

Mikeyboy wrote: Going off topic for a second, I agree it SEEMS more kids have more issues with things like Asthma and allergies then in past generations. However I don't know if there is a direct factor like more pollution or kids do not get outside as much as in the past, or if its just a misguided perception that maybe its a combo of lack of diagnosis and treatment back in the day.
Agreed. I does seem as if asthma, allergies, etc. are far more prevalent than in years past. Im too ignorant to know if indeed this is the case, or nature is trying to become more nasty because we keep thwarting the natural population controls.

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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by jnathan » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:08 am

It's hard to differentiate if the incidence rate is higher or if it appears higher because we're more aware of it resulting in increased surveillance. Which is to say, the incidence rate might not be higher, but checking for it may be. It's also possible the incidence rate itself is higher.

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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by Mikeyboy » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:39 am

TacAir wrote:Twelve children in Delaware are being tested for a rare respiratory virus that has already been blamed for sickening possibly hundreds of children in the Midwest.

and

The Philadelphia Inquirer reports that 10 children in New Castle County, Del., one in Kent County and one in Sussex County are being tested for the virus.

Oddly -

The Inquirer said that though there are only 82 confirmed cases, hospitals are reporting treating hundreds of children whose symptoms match those of the virus. CDC testing can't keep up?

I find it interesting that the vast majority of stories on this "virus outbreak" are found, not on medical sites, but on third line (as best) "news" sites and blogs with an obvious axe to grind.
(shrug)

Seem to keep spreading. Or at least the reporting is spreading in the news is news department....

ETA - I'm tracking this because my Frau is working in a public school this winter. I want to be on top of the signs/symptoms - treatment, so far, is symptomatic.
Yep, I am right between Philadelphia and border between PA and DE and its definitely here. Its just a matter of time that it will run up and down the entire East Coast.

The funny thing is my kids both mentioned that a lot of kids are in school "sick" with cold/flu like symptoms (which is odd for this early in the school year). I'm thinking that if you don't have asthma, and are relatively healthy this virus is nothing more than a bad cold. If a healthily non asthmatic gets it they may be out for a day or two, but then they are back in school spreading it around. I think they are probably only testing those kids that are going to the hospital in serious condition.

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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by Kathy in FL » Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:53 am

Please remember when comparing the recent influx of unaccompanied minors to current minor populations you are basically dealing with apples and oranges. None of the following is a political statement. It is a statement on how you cannot compare statistics published on this issue due to an intentional lack of transparency.

First off, there is documented evidence that the holding facilities for the recent influx were pools of infection. The numbers and statistics for types of infections however have been refused to other agencies/the public for examination. What we do know is that people who worked with this population suffered an increased rate of infections not normally seen in a US population such as scabies, TB, and several other illnesses. We also know that workers in these facilities/agencies have been legally silenced due to a privacy requirement in their contracts that can be enforced with arrest. We also know that politicians that have sought access to these facilities and/or the documentation to inspect/review them have been denied access.

Secondly, trying to lump all of the recent influx under one population heading is a failure to understand that the people are from very diverse geographic locations in central and south America. They congregate based on national, ethnic, and culture groups the same as people already here in the US do. Each one unique and each one potentially a different vector (or not). Trying to deny the recent influx doesn't have anything to do with the recent rise in infections of a rare virus is illogical if all you are using is the argument that the recent influx aren't reporting said infection in their population in your area.

Next, in most school districts here in the US, the administrators have said that the minors arriving from the recent influx are not to be labeled as "illegal immigrants". They are being statistically labeled as "homeless." The reason behind this is many fold. Some of the reasons are that being labeled "homeless" means that the district does not have to apply residency requirements, does not have to apply requirements for identity documents such as birth certificate or shot records, does not have to apply health screening requirements, can get extra money for each "homeless" student, etc. I know this for a fact as I know a lot of teachers in three separate school districts around me and they've all stated this is how any new "unaccompanied minor" students are being handled. They are also telling me that the vast majority of these students at all grade levels exhibit health and hygiene issues that other students of the same age do not.

We also know that many, if not most, of the unaccompanied minor populations that have been released to adult caregivers have already "disappeared" and are not showing up for immigration status meetings and/or do not and/or no longer reside at the addresses that were given when they were initially turned over and there are no forwarding addresses for them. This has been discussed in the mainstream media as one of the problems associated with the huge backlog of cases before immigration officials. This is slowly changing as the legitimately minor children under the age of 16 are forced to register for school but that flips back to the other problem of how the school districts are labeling them.

We have the widespread dispersal of this rare virus that corresponds with geographic locations that have noted the need for increased funding due to the recent influx. That does not automatically state that the origin of the original cases of the virus has been because of the recent influx but you'd have to be blind as a bat not to be willing to at least have it on your radar ... unless there was some other type of motivation. If you are investigating a potentially infectious agent you look at ALL possibilities, especially those that have a greater possibility than others based on known factors.

Lastly when comparing the recent influx population with the indigenous population of the same age group - unaccompanied minors - you have to remember that the children getting the most ill have pre-existing health issues such as asthma. It is highly doubtful that the influx population have very many health-compromised children due to the rigorous nature of their travel. A minor with asthma is simply not going to be able to successfully accomplish that kind of dangerous trek. That population also isn't going to have access - or the habit of access - of going to the doctor or health care facilities/professionals. Children that get this virus don't automatically go to the ER or doctor and don't automatically wind up in ICU. The only ones that apparently are getting this ill are those with compromised respiratory systems ... and that would not likely include the recent influx population of minors. They may very well be getting infected, they simply are not being included in the numbers in the same way as any other indigenous minor who does not report their illness to a health care professional would not be counted.

There are multiple factors of transmission that need to be investigated, the problem is that because of the initial lack of transparency when the recent influx population entered the country there is no way to completely confirm nor completely deny if the recent influx population wasn't an initial infection vector. And now that school has started and the virus is becoming widespread in the general public we may never know "case zero" or the original geographic transmission routes. Something like measles is a lot easier to track and find the most likely "case zero" and the largest at-risk population. This virus however presents a much more complicated scenario so nothing can be ruled out ... or in ... at this time. At least not with the information that is currently available to the general public. It is neither racist nor political to state a fact that it is a possibility based on known facts and geography. The problem is when people get so crazy and concrete their feet in an opinion that cannot be formed - for or against - when there is not enough information available.

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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by cricky101 » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:02 pm

Mikeyboy wrote:
TacAir wrote:Twelve children in Delaware are being tested for a rare respiratory virus that has already been blamed for sickening possibly hundreds of children in the Midwest.

and

The Philadelphia Inquirer reports that 10 children in New Castle County, Del., one in Kent County and one in Sussex County are being tested for the virus.

Oddly -

The Inquirer said that though there are only 82 confirmed cases, hospitals are reporting treating hundreds of children whose symptoms match those of the virus. CDC testing can't keep up?

I find it interesting that the vast majority of stories on this "virus outbreak" are found, not on medical sites, but on third line (as best) "news" sites and blogs with an obvious axe to grind.
(shrug)

Seem to keep spreading. Or at least the reporting is spreading in the news is news department....

ETA - I'm tracking this because my Frau is working in a public school this winter. I want to be on top of the signs/symptoms - treatment, so far, is symptomatic.
Yep, I am right between Philadelphia and border between PA and DE and its definitely here. Its just a matter of time that it will run up and down the entire East Coast.

The funny thing is my kids both mentioned that a lot of kids are in school "sick" with cold/flu like symptoms (which is odd for this early in the school year). I'm thinking that if you don't have asthma, and are relatively healthy this virus is nothing more than a bad cold. If a healthily non asthmatic gets it they may be out for a day or two, but then they are back in school spreading it around. I think they are probably only testing those kids that are going to the hospital in serious condition.
I don't think it's been officially found in Minnesota yet, but my friend who works at a local children's hospital said there have been dozens of kids brough in with respitory conditions --- many, many more than usual. So, I imagine after the tests come back, we'll see it here too.

Children's Hospitals and Clinics of MN, where she works, has some good basic info about it on their website: http://www.childrensmn.org/services/eme ... ry-illness

Their findings agree with your thoughts that unless there's an underlying condition, symptoms are similar to a bad cold and should be treated as such by keeping kids home, extra rest, fluids, etc ...
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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by whisk.e.rebellion » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:14 pm

Kathy in FL wrote:It is neither racist nor political to state a fact that it is a possibility based on known facts and geography.
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There's no recorded outbreak of HEV 68 in Mexico or Central America. Any blame laid on immigrants is pure speculation bordering on fear mongering.
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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by shrapnel » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:17 pm

I'm splitting out most of the drama. If you have any further thoughts on the matter, please either take them to PM, or address them in another thread. Or whatever. This isn't the place for it, is really my point.
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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by jnathan » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:27 pm

Hi Kathy,

If you could provide primary sources to any of the below it would be very helpful in understanding your position. I remain open minded.

-Jef
Kathy in FL wrote:Please remember when comparing the recent influx of unaccompanied minors to current minor populations you are basically dealing with apples and oranges. None of the following is a political statement. It is a statement on how you cannot compare statistics published on this issue due to an intentional lack of transparency.

First off, there is documented evidence that the holding facilities for the recent influx were pools of infection. The numbers and statistics for types of infections however have been refused to other agencies/the public for examination. What we do know is that people who worked with this population suffered an increased rate of infections not normally seen in a US population such as scabies, TB, and several other illnesses. We also know that workers in these facilities/agencies have been legally silenced due to a privacy requirement in their contracts that can be enforced with arrest. We also know that politicians that have sought access to these facilities and/or the documentation to inspect/review them have been denied access.

Secondly, trying to lump all of the recent influx under one population heading is a failure to understand that the people are from very diverse geographic locations in central and south America. They congregate based on national, ethnic, and culture groups the same as people already here in the US do. Each one unique and each one potentially a different vector (or not). Trying to deny the recent influx doesn't have anything to do with the recent rise in infections of a rare virus is illogical if all you are using is the argument that the recent influx aren't reporting said infection in their population in your area.

Next, in most school districts here in the US, the administrators have said that the minors arriving from the recent influx are not to be labeled as "illegal immigrants". They are being statistically labeled as "homeless." The reason behind this is many fold. Some of the reasons are that being labeled "homeless" means that the district does not have to apply residency requirements, does not have to apply requirements for identity documents such as birth certificate or shot records, does not have to apply health screening requirements, can get extra money for each "homeless" student, etc. I know this for a fact as I know a lot of teachers in three separate school districts around me and they've all stated this is how any new "unaccompanied minor" students are being handled. They are also telling me that the vast majority of these students at all grade levels exhibit health and hygiene issues that other students of the same age do not.

We also know that many, if not most, of the unaccompanied minor populations that have been released to adult caregivers have already "disappeared" and are not showing up for immigration status meetings and/or do not and/or no longer reside at the addresses that were given when they were initially turned over and there are no forwarding addresses for them. This has been discussed in the mainstream media as one of the problems associated with the huge backlog of cases before immigration officials. This is slowly changing as the legitimately minor children under the age of 16 are forced to register for school but that flips back to the other problem of how the school districts are labeling them.

We have the widespread dispersal of this rare virus that corresponds with geographic locations that have noted the need for increased funding due to the recent influx. That does not automatically state that the origin of the original cases of the virus has been because of the recent influx but you'd have to be blind as a bat not to be willing to at least have it on your radar ... unless there was some other type of motivation. If you are investigating a potentially infectious agent you look at ALL possibilities, especially those that have a greater possibility than others based on known factors.

Lastly when comparing the recent influx population with the indigenous population of the same age group - unaccompanied minors - you have to remember that the children getting the most ill have pre-existing health issues such as asthma. It is highly doubtful that the influx population have very many health-compromised children due to the rigorous nature of their travel. A minor with asthma is simply not going to be able to successfully accomplish that kind of dangerous trek. That population also isn't going to have access - or the habit of access - of going to the doctor or health care facilities/professionals. Children that get this virus don't automatically go to the ER or doctor and don't automatically wind up in ICU. The only ones that apparently are getting this ill are those with compromised respiratory systems ... and that would not likely include the recent influx population of minors. They may very well be getting infected, they simply are not being included in the numbers in the same way as any other indigenous minor who does not report their illness to a health care professional would not be counted.

There are multiple factors of transmission that need to be investigated, the problem is that because of the initial lack of transparency when the recent influx population entered the country there is no way to completely confirm nor completely deny if the recent influx population wasn't an initial infection vector. And now that school has started and the virus is becoming widespread in the general public we may never know "case zero" or the original geographic transmission routes. Something like measles is a lot easier to track and find the most likely "case zero" and the largest at-risk population. This virus however presents a much more complicated scenario so nothing can be ruled out ... or in ... at this time. At least not with the information that is currently available to the general public. It is neither racist nor political to state a fact that it is a possibility based on known facts and geography. The problem is when people get so crazy and concrete their feet in an opinion that cannot be formed - for or against - when there is not enough information available.
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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by spanningtree » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:49 pm

Thanks for the great post Kathy! Breath of fresh air, I'm surprised the post survived.

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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:55 pm

Kathy in FL wrote:Please remember when comparing the recent influx of unaccompanied minors to current minor populations you are basically dealing with apples and oranges. None of the following is a political statement. It is a statement on how you cannot compare statistics published on this issue due to an intentional lack of transparency.

First off, there is documented evidence that the holding facilities for the recent influx were pools of infection.

I'd like to see the documentation. I've only seen it referenced thridhand from some fgringe sites. Nonetheless, when you coop up a bunch of unvaccinated people in enclosed areas, you do increase the risk of infection.

Trying to deny the recent influx doesn't have anything to do with the recent rise in infections of a rare virus is illogical if all you are using is the argument that the recent influx aren't reporting said infection in their population in your area.

False. It's illogical to allege that a virus first found in the US, and which pops up every few years in the US, and which is (at this time) localized to a the Midwest (which serves as a major travel hub) must be related to immigrants who are entering my land in the Southwest. The way the burden of proof works is that the claimant must supply direct evidence to support a claim. In other words, show me why we should assume it came from Central Americas, instead of being just another round of the annual enterovirus that happens every time we pack all of America's schoolchildren into climate-controlled buildings together where they share food, water fountains, and boogers with each other.

Show me the evidence.


Next, in most school districts here in the US, the administrators have said that the minors arriving from the recent influx are not to be labeled as "illegal immigrants". They are being statistically labeled as "homeless."

Show me the evidence. Also show me what this has to do with EV-D68.

We have the widespread dispersal of this rare virus that corresponds with geographic locations that have noted the need for increased funding due to the recent influx. That does not automatically state that the origin of the original cases of the virus has been because of the recent influx but you'd have to be blind as a bat not to be willing to at least have it on your radar ... unless there was some other type of motivation.

I'm willing to have it on my radar if there's actually a link. My issue is that "OMG sick dirty furriners" was a major political meme this election cycle, and this only seems to be getting reported because of that, with that same political persuasion doing the Glenn Beck "I can't prove it, but don't you think it's probably true?" tapdance.

It is highly doubtful that the influx population have very many health-compromised children due to the rigorous nature of their travel. A minor with asthma is simply not going to be able to successfully accomplish that kind of dangerous trek.

And yet a minor with measles, TB, or a respiratory illness will? I'm sorry but this seems entirely self-contradictory.

They may very well be getting infected, they simply are not being included in the numbers in the same way as any other indigenous minor who does not report their illness to a health care professional would not be counted.

This could also be an evil terrorist plot, or men from Mars, or it could be another case of enterovirus in the US during school season. Occam's razor casts doubt on men from Mars, and without the presence of EV-D68 in Latin America it casts doubt on that story too. It also casts doubt on the terror plot-thing.

There are multiple factors of transmission that need to be investigated, the problem is that because of the initial lack of transparency when the recent influx population entered the country there is no way to completely confirm nor completely deny if the recent influx population wasn't an initial infection vector.

We don't need to completely deny it...we need to show a reasonable suspicion that there's a causal link between the two to begin with. I can't prove that there's not an invisible Pink Unicorn rubbing his ghostly bollocks on my bed when i'm not home, but it would be ludicrous to start hunting for an invisible pink unicorn if I didn't smell horses, see hoofprints, or smell pony-junk on my bedding. It's Russell's Teapot in action.

It is neither racist nor political to state a fact that it is a possibility based on known facts and geography.

What facts? You've said a bunch of things, but with no primary sources for the claims. Has there even been a reported case of EV-D68 in Central or Latin America? HAs a single case been reported in an unaccompanied minor? All I'm hearing is "ewwww foreigners are dirty and sick so this must be their fault" and it's a little disturbing.

The problem is when people get so crazy and concrete their feet in an opinion that cannot be formed - for or against - when there is not enough information available.
I absolutely agree. The main problem is that peopel get their opinion locked in and start hunting for information to support that opinion. The solution is to apply the sharp scalpel of skepticism. Find first-line sources, verifiable information, and don't rely on assumptions or make claims just because you think they might be true. I have a Psych professor who's particularly bad about repeating anecdotes or misrepeating scientific results to support some very nonscientific ideas. Skepticism is the easiest way to cut through the BS, cut through the political talking points, and get to the bottom of the mess. That starts with actual data, and none of the data in this thread actually points to a causal link between EV-D68 and illegal immigration.
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SCBrian
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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by SCBrian » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:58 pm

whisk.e.rebellion wrote:

There's no recorded outbreak of HEV 68 in Mexico or Central America. Any blame laid on immigrants is pure speculation bordering on fear mongering.
Can I use the "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" argument? My grammar skills are not what they should be, so I'm uncertain?
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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by Boondock » Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:11 pm

For what it's worth, my three year old caught a runny nose at pre-school two weeks ago. Same time this illness started popping up.

The runny nose turned into a cough. I admit to being a bit worried, but that's the guy I am. Lots of food, fluids and rest, and a little medicine at bedtime. My little guy's on the mend.

Today, half his classmates showed up with a cough and snotty noses. Yup. Welcome to a new school year. Unless my son starts acting lethargic, runs a fever or can't breathe, I'm gonna treat this as any other cold.

No need to hit the panic button.

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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by spanningtree » Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:21 pm

SCBrian wrote:
whisk.e.rebellion wrote:

There's no recorded outbreak of HEV 68 in Mexico or Central America. Any blame laid on immigrants is pure speculation bordering on fear mongering.
Can I use the "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" argument? My grammar skills are not what they should be, so I'm uncertain?
These links both point to the same non-polarized article. Pretty easy, > 5 minute search. Make what you want out of it but be careful of getting slapped with the racist and fear mongering label.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3854537/

http://www.virologyj.com/content/10/1/305

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Re: Lots of sick kids

Post by duodecima » Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:31 pm

spanningtree wrote:
SCBrian wrote:
whisk.e.rebellion wrote:

There's no recorded outbreak of HEV 68 in Mexico or Central America. Any blame laid on immigrants is pure speculation bordering on fear mongering.
Can I use the "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" argument? My grammar skills are not what they should be, so I'm uncertain?
These links both point to the same non-polarized article. Pretty easy, > 5 minute search. Make what you want out of it but be careful of getting slapped with the racist and fear mongering label.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3854537/

http://www.virologyj.com/content/10/1/305
So, then you get to read the article. Which says, among all the many different viruses sampled
We also identified low numbers of EV-D68, which has been associated with respiratory disease by others [10], although never in the countries of our study.
Which lends credence to the fact that these viruses, which have always existed here in the US as well and not seemed to cause much illness, also existed in South/Central America as well in low numbers and not seeming to cause much illness. It fails to offer any support for the idea that this strain of that virus came from South/Central America rather than Europe, Africa, or Utah. (I pick Utah because I believe they had one of the early clusters?)

I have more to say but need to go back to work now, be back tonite.
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