Riots in St Louis?

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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by nolongpork » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:33 pm

crypto wrote:
nolongpork wrote: So to ZS people there, what say you about my line of thinking?
I think that you are vastly overstating the risk level of the current environment.

To be clear: What is being contested is about a half-mile of space, on West Florissant road, between Chambers road to the north and Canfield to the south. It is a commercial area. All of the major altercations and clashes with police have been on this stretch of road. Looting, when it has occurred, has been on this corridor, stretching a little further in both directions when every cop in the area is tied up with the riot.

There have been no cases of home invasions related to the riots. The background level of opportunistic burglary has risen perhaps a little, but for the most part its a lot easier to bust into a retail target than a home, because there's enough loot for everyone in the former scenario, while you never know whats in a house in the latter. 2 of my chapter members live in Ferguson, and they have families. They are not leaving, as long as you stay off W. Florissant at night, you're fine.

Ferguson is safe during the day. Shops are open and people are going about their business. People are acting like its Oakland, but it absolutely is not.

I might add that Michael Brown was the first gun-related homicide of 2014 in Ferguson. It's certainly not crime free, but it's less lethal that most places.
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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by Valarius » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:39 pm

crypto wrote:As a side note, the last 2 nights, part of the protest is against the curfew itself, which is a pretty clear infringement of 2 enumerated 1A rights only permitted because of the State of Emergency.
Alright, let's talk about that. Do you have enough food and water on hand at your place right now? If a curfew is in effect, I'd imagine most businesses would close early.
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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by KGBrick » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:40 pm

From everything I've seen on the non-network news, heard on non-network streams, and read on non-network sources, Ferguson sounds a lot like A Neighborhood. A lot like my AO. Similar to many other mixed-income areas.

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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by crypto » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:44 pm

RepoMan73 wrote:
Kilo147 wrote:Calling bullshit on the cops being shot at. Every time. They've said shots fired, they've revised their story and admitted it was fireworks.

Haven't there been several people shot and one killed during the riots? With the level of violence seen, doesn't seem unlikely that they were shot at.

On Monday night (I think) the police shot one guy who pointed a gun at them. He died later in the week. That same night someone did a drive-by and grazed a woman in the head.

Since then, there have been several non-fatal shootings, where someone in the crowd has shot someone else in the crowd. I don't have the precise number but "about 5 people since this all started" seems right.
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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by DannusMaximus » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:00 pm

crypto wrote:
nolongpork wrote: So to ZS people there, what say you about my line of thinking?
I think that you are vastly overstating the risk level of the current environment.

To be clear: What is being contested is about a half-mile of space, on West Florissant road, between Chambers road to the north and Canfield to the south. It is a commercial area. All of the major altercations and clashes with police have been on this stretch of road. Looting, when it has occurred, has been on this corridor, stretching a little further in both directions when every cop in the area is tied up with the riot.

There have been no cases of home invasions related to the riots. The background level of opportunistic burglary has risen perhaps a little, but for the most part its a lot easier to bust into a retail target than a home, because there's enough loot for everyone in the former scenario, while you never know whats in a house in the latter. 2 of my chapter members live in Ferguson, and they have families. They are not leaving, as long as you stay off W. Florissant at night, you're fine.

Ferguson is safe during the day. Shops are open and people are going about their business. People are acting like its Oakland, but it absolutely is not.

I might add that Michael Brown was the first gun-related homicide of 2014 in Ferguson. It's certainly not crime free, but it's less lethal that most places.
Great reality check from somebody who is actually in the area and does not have an agenda (e.g., higher ratings or blog hits) to push.

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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by crypto » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:36 pm

It looks like tonight's police plan is no curfew, but a designated protestor area at the intersection of W. Florissant and Chambers.


I would imagine that this plan will go over about as well as Free Speech Zones normally go over at protests.

EDIT: Here's how well the news went over at the state government offices in downtown St. Louis:

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Source: https://twitter.com/ChrisNagusKMOV/stat ... 16/photo/1


EDIT2: This is not a riot, just a protest downtown. People are mad but not 'getting arrested' mad.
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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by crypto » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:01 pm

FAA has renewed the TFR/NOTAM over Ferguson for another week:

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_4_4815.html

The idea is to keep news helos out of the airspace the police helo maneuvers in. It's a tight corridor and maneuver space is tight when the news choppers outnumber the police helo 3:1
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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by Stercutus » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:11 pm

crypto wrote:regarding the autopsy report, it cuts both ways: It shows pretty clearly that Brown was not shot in the back as per some eyewitness accounts, but it also shows no evidence of any sort of struggle or fight.
I am not sure what that means. Lots of people get in a struggle or even a fight and show no evidence of it; especially if the struggle is short. Getting shot right afterwards would certainly tend to obstruct evidence of that.
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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by Kilo147 » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:12 pm

Huh. Rumour is that Brown paid for the cigars, the manager stopped him to check his ID

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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by yossarian » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:14 pm

Kilo147 wrote:Huh. Rumour is that Brown paid for the cigars, the manager stopped him to check his ID
Source?
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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by crypto » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:15 pm

Just that no obvious struggle related abrasions or contusions or lacerations doesn't add evidence supporting the officers claims. It doesn't detract from them, just doesn't bolster them. That's all.


@Kilo: His friends say he was going to take them.


Honestly though, given that this is a DICE thread, I'd like to shy away from discussion of the shooting and what led up to it. If y'all want another thread about that, feel free to make one if you think you can keep it open.

I'd like to keep this one about the civil unrest, if possible.
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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by 0122358 » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:16 pm

I just read somewhere that the Guard is either being brought in or is standing by to be brought in? Shit just keeps seeming to get worse depending on who you talk to.
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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by crypto » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:21 pm

Yes, I mentioned that a couple pages ago. The executive order was signed late last night, troops have been heading up there today.

The idea is to use the NG to guard the police command post, which frees up a lot of policemen to get out on the streets.
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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by DJH » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:23 pm

crypto wrote:Yes, I mentioned that a couple pages ago. The executive order was signed late last night, troops have been heading up there today.

The idea is to use the NG to guard the police command post, which frees up a lot of policemen to get out on the streets.
Best possible use of the resources, IMHO.
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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by Stercutus » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:25 pm

Kilo147 wrote:Huh. Rumour is that Brown paid for the cigars, the manager stopped him to check his ID
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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by ManInBlack316 » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:26 pm

If they're anything like the FL guard, then stuff is about to get real bad unless the people in charge of them keep a very tight leash on them. Which I read they are, so maybe it won't escalate things in a bad direction.

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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by raptor » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:45 pm

Kilo147 wrote:Huh. Rumour is that Brown paid for the cigars, the manager stopped him to check his ID

Seriously... why do you post rumors? It is not helpful.

The companion and his attorney confirmed the theft.
“My client did tell us — and told the FBI — that they went into the store,” Bosley said on MSNBC. “He told the FBI that he did take cigarillos. He told that to the DOJ and the St. Louis County Police.”
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If you look at the video of the interaction the clerk was not asking for the ID and Brown was sure not showing his ID.

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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by Stercutus » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:54 pm


Seriously... why do you post rumors? It is not helpful.
Better that than repeating the lies told by the other robber and various other "witnesses" and pretending it is truth. At least we know for certain it has no basis in fact whatsoever.
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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by Sworbeyegib » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:54 pm

yossarian wrote:
Kilo147 wrote:Huh. Rumour is that Brown paid for the cigars, the manager stopped him to check his ID
Source?
There could possibly be a small break in the footage when the cameras shift between the inward facing camera and the outwards facing one. Theoretically he could have paid, but then why would the store report the robbery.

Remember that the robbery was reported before the shooting went down, it wasn't fabricated after the fact.

The footage shows him reaching far behind the counter (remember that he is 6'4"), quickly grabbing the cigars and batting away the clerks arm, and what seems to be a slight verbal confrontation. You can see his head turning as he walks back up to the counter, that the clerk is likely moving back and away from him.

The camera cuts away and now shows him exiting. The clerk isn't grabbing him, but trying to get in front of him. He then grabs the clerk by the throat and shoves him away violently. When the clerk tries to step forward again, he aggressively steps forward in a way I've seen a thousand times by guys trying to bully and scare someone into submission.

So even if he did pay for the cigars in some "lost" footage, he still obviously took unneeded violent action against the clerk. That's all really the focus will be on anyways.
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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by Woods Walker » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:07 pm

Browning 35 wrote:Michael Brown had marijuana in his system.

http://www.examiner.com/article/report- ... his-system

What'd I tell you about those Swisher Sweets? :wink:
This is new to me. Does found in his system = high at the time of the incident or just traces? Not sure if that info is out yet.
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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by raptor » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:20 pm

Woods Walker wrote:
Browning 35 wrote:Michael Brown had marijuana in his system.

http://www.examiner.com/article/report- ... his-system

What'd I tell you about those Swisher Sweets? :wink:
This is new to me. Does found in his system = high at the time of the incident or just traces? Not sure if that info is out yet.
Until the final autopsy report is released the levels will not be known. It may have influenced the event or not.

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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by Murphman » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:23 pm

Woods Walker wrote:
Browning 35 wrote:Michael Brown had marijuana in his system.

http://www.examiner.com/article/report- ... his-system

What'd I tell you about those Swisher Sweets? :wink:
This is new to me. Does found in his system = high at the time of the incident or just traces? Not sure if that info is out yet.
Not sure that can be determined from a blood test as THC metabolites can stay in the blood for over 30 days. I only know this as there are professional fighters (boxing and MMA) who legally carry a prescription card in NV, CA, Co, etc, yet have been suspended from fighting for fighting with the metabolites in their system, yet claiming that they hadn't used in over two weeks leading up to fight night.

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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by Browning 35 » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:25 pm

Woods Walker wrote:
Browning 35 wrote:Michael Brown had marijuana in his system.

http://www.examiner.com/article/report- ... his-system

What'd I tell you about those Swisher Sweets? :wink:
This is new to me. Does found in his system = high at the time of the incident or just traces? Not sure if that info is out yet.
Not necessarily.

I looked it up and the web info I saw said 15 days to a little over a month depending on how often someone smoked it and if they were a heavy user or not. 1-6 days for a one time deal.

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Re: Riots in St Louis?

Post by Mountainsquid » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:09 pm

RepoMan73 wrote:

Wow I am completely unsurprised at that news. If the story of him charging the officer is true, I would expect him to have harder stuff in his system though.
Seriously. If there is one thing MJ is know for, it's the opposite of mellow and lethargic. I'm not too sure what it's suppose to prove. Ain't like it's PCP or something.

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