Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

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Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by Pilsung » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:49 am

http://www.debka.com/article/22724/Russ ... n-on-alert" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Syrian announcement of an Israeli air strike on a military site near Damascus Wednesday, Jan. 30, drew strong condemnation from Moscow the next day: “Such action if confirmed would amount to unacceptable military interference in the war-ravaged country,” said the statement issued by the Russian Foreign Ministry Thursday. “If this information is confirmed, then we are dealing with unprovoked attacks on targets on the territory of a sovereign country, which blatantly violate the UN Charter and is unacceptable, no matter the motives to justify it.”

Israel has made no comment on the Damascus statement which described in detail an Israeli air strike against a “military research institute” near the capital. Witnesses say it was a plant for manufacturing “unconventional weapons.” The facility was destroyed and two staff members killed.

Lebanese sources later reported a Russian Mig-31 fighter had crossed over Sinai Wednesday in the direction of Israel. It veered west over the Mediterranean after encountering an Israeli warning not to intrude into its air space and continued flying over Lebanon.

debkafile’s military sources say that the only external military force in the eastern Mediterranean region is a fleet of 18 Russian warships, which includes landing-craft – among the largest in the Russian Navy – with 2,000 marines aboard.
According to various Middle East sources, the Syrian report of an Israeli air strike has touched off high military alerts across the region. Syria has put its Golan forces on the Israel border on combat readiness and the Lebanese and Jordanian armies are on alert. So too are the Russian fleet opposite Syria and the Lebanese army.

Our military sources report that Turkish units on the Syrian border are on high preparedness although Ankara played down the reports of the Israeli air strike in Syria, uncomfortable over the fact that the Israeli Air Force was the first external power to intervene directly in the Syrian conflict.

So too are the US air force units stationed at the Turkish Incerlik air base, the US special forces deployed at the Jordanian Mafraq air facility and the American, German and Dutch Patriot missile interceptors deployed in Turkey opposite Syria. Israel has been on high alert since last week.

The prevailing estimate in military and intelligence circles in Washington and NATO capitals is that the Israeli air attack on the Syrian military site near Damascus was but the opening shot for the coming round of military blows they expect to be exchanged in the near future between Israel, Syria and Hizballah, with Iran possibly waiting in the wings for a chance to pitch in.

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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by Alpha-17 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:07 am

Gog/Magog War anybody? :?


From what I've heard, the Israeli strikes have been aimed at prevent both conventional and unconventional weapons from being acquired by Hezbollah. Makes sense to me. Supposedly a convoy was hit yesterday taking anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles to Hezbollah in Lebanon as well.
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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by phil_in_cs » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:24 pm

When I first heard of this, I thought the missiles Israel destroyed would be surface to surface missiles, such as Hezbollah commonly shoots into Israel (and was the cause the most recent war between them).

BBC is reporting they were high end $ surface to air missiles.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21281923" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by GentryMillMan » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:56 pm

phil_in_cs wrote:When I first heard of this, I thought the missiles Israel destroyed would be surface to surface missiles, such as Hezbollah commonly shoots into Israel (and was the cause the most recent war between them).

BBC is reporting they were high end $ surface to air missiles.
Yeah that makes it sound like it is preemptive for later strikes... :roll:
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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by phil_in_cs » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:01 pm

It is widely assumed that if Iran is attacked, either by Israel or the US/NATO, that their client Hezbollah will unleash a massive barrage on Israel. So, if they're going that way, getting the SAM's under control first is a good idea.
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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by raptor » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:10 pm

phil_in_cs wrote:When I first heard of this, I thought the missiles Israel destroyed would be surface to surface missiles, such as Hezbollah commonly shoots into Israel (and was the cause the most recent war between them).

BBC is reporting they were high end $ surface to air missiles.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21281923" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_r ... tures.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hezbolla acquiring SA-17 missiles would not be good since these d pose a credible threat to Israeli helicopter gun ships that are routinely used to "punish" hezbolla and kill their leaders in "surgical missile hits".


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The thing that strikes me is that SA-17's are pretty sophisticated and expensive. It is far more expensive and sophisticated than hezbolla would normally be able to afford and deploy.

These are not hand held missiles nor are they simple and easy to deploy and put in service. They require support and training to use effectively. Thus the key question that comes to mind (assuming the cover story is correct which honestly I suspect is not the case) is who is paying for these missiles and why attack them in Syria. There is a long path from Syria to hezbolla territory. It would have been simpler and less provacative to simply let them get to their destination and use artillery strikes or air strikes when they were either in transit or being setup.

Since Russia is pissed and Turkey is concerned over this I have look at this and say this is not what it is reported to be...there is a new one for you ...the press gets the story wrong, lies or other wise does not have the information. :wink:

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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by GentryMillMan » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:17 pm

raptor wrote: Since Russia is pissed and Turkey is concerned over this I have look at this and say this is not what it is reported to be...there is a new one for you ...the press gets the story wrong, lies or other wise does not have the information. :wink:
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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by raptor » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:34 pm

GentryMillMan wrote: Haven't you heard? "They can't put anything on the internet that isn't true.."
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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by phil_in_cs » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:11 pm

It's worth noting the US and Israel say, off the record only, that a convoy of missiles was hit in the border area. Syria and Russia say publicly it was a military research facility in suburban Damascus.

With the the civil war going on there independent verification isn't likely possible.
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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by phil_in_cs » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:56 pm

White House warns Syria over 'weapons to Hezbollah'
The White House has warned Syria not to transfer weapons to Hezbollah in neighbouring Lebanon.

The warning came amid contradictory claims of an Israeli strike in Syria.

Syria says Israeli war planes bombed a military research centre north-west of Damascus, but the US and others say lorries carrying weapons bound for Lebanon were hit.

Israel has maintained silence about the incident, but Syria has made a formal complaint to the UN.

Damascus says it reserves the right to defend itself, while its allies Russia and Iran have strongly denounced the attack.

Continue reading the main story
Possible targets

Jamraya Centre: Reported scientific research centre responsible for developing chemical weapons
Weapons convoy: Lorries carrying Russian-made SA-17 anti-aircraft missiles to Hezbollah bases in Lebanon
Q&A: Israeli 'strike' on Syria
Analysis: Strike adds complexity to tense region
The Syrian army statement about the incident, carried on state media, said Israeli fighter jets had carried out a direct strike on a scientific research centre in Jamraya, killing two people and wounding five.

But a US official told the BBC the target was a convoy carrying SA-17 surface-to-air missiles. Some rebel groups have said they targeted the Jamraya centre.

Israel has declined to comment.
More at the link. A bit odd since Syria has been supplying arms to Hezbollah for decades.

edit: oops, forgot the link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21281923" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:38 pm

I have reason to believe that Raptor's (and some of the more thoughful media's) first take on the events is correct. Israel did hit a convoy carrying weapons for Hizbizzle.

The SA-17 is a big step up for the Party Animals of God. It would give them excellent coverage against both attack helicopters and and fast movers using laser guided or other types of percision weapons. That would in turn put a huge dent is Israel's ability to strike into the Gaza strip short of a costly and bloody ground campaign.
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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by phil_in_cs » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:44 pm

Evan the Diplomat wrote:I have reason to believe that Raptor's (and some of the more thoughful media's) first take on the events is correct. Israel did hit a convoy carrying weapons for Hizbizzle.
Not impossible they did both. Lebanon reported a couple waves of planes crossing them, and the Syrian report was planes crossing the Golan Heights, which are quite close to Damascus.
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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by Keith B » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:11 pm

phil_in_cs wrote:
Evan the Diplomat wrote:I have reason to believe that Raptor's (and some of the more thoughful media's) first take on the events is correct. Israel did hit a convoy carrying weapons for Hizbizzle.
Not impossible they did both. Lebanon reported a couple waves of planes crossing them, and the Syrian report was planes crossing the Golan Heights, which are quite close to Damascus.
When you think about it, it's a great cover up. Just like a magicians slight of hand, look we hit these weapons being moved! While with the hand you're not looking at, they hit the plant.
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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by GentryMillMan » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:42 pm

sigboy40 wrote: When you think about it, it's a great cover up. Just like a magicians slight of hand, look we hit these weapons being moved! While with the hand you're not looking at, they hit the plant.
Yeah with having, for the most part a media blackout in Syria, planes in the sky already who is to say what exactly the mission entailed?
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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by Pilsung » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:46 am

http://www.debka.com/article/22734/Obam ... tary-links" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The plot thickens.

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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by itzybitzyspyder » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:02 am

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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by Stercutus » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:38 pm

The Iranian Nuke Talks have officially failed.

I am going to start an egg timer. Someone let me know when a smoking crater suddenly opens up somewhere in the desert South West of Tehran.


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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by Ten Eight » Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:43 pm

That sucks. What will suck more is if we are suddenly involved in NK and Iran at the same time.
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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by crypto » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:52 pm

I think we'd likely stay out of iran, Israel is chomping at the bit to flatten them. All the State Dept has to do is give them a wink and they'll be on it like white on rice.
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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by Megalith » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:09 am

crypto wrote:I think we'd likely stay out of iran, Israel is chomping at the bit to flatten them. All the State Dept has to do is give them a wink and they'll be on it like white on rice.
Don't be too sure of that.

If Israel could strike Iran (without Nukes) it would of.

I've heard rumors that Syria responded to the Air Strike by Attacking the Diamol Reactor, since neither side want's to escalate things further (I.E Israel admit it's 'air defence' is fundamentally flawed, and Syria not wanting to fight multiple wars at once) it wasn't really reported....

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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by crypto » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:22 am

raptor wrote:

The thing that strikes me is that SA-17's are pretty sophisticated and expensive. It is far more expensive and sophisticated than hezbolla would normally be able to afford and deploy.

These are not hand held missiles nor are they simple and easy to deploy and put in service. They require support and training to use effectively. Thus the key question that comes to mind (assuming the cover story is correct which honestly I suspect is not the case) is who is paying for these missiles and why attack them in Syria. There is a long path from Syria to hezbolla territory. It would have been simpler and less provacative to simply let them get to their destination and use artillery strikes or air strikes when they were either in transit or being setup.

Since Russia is pissed and Turkey is concerned over this I have look at this and say this is not what it is reported to be...there is a new one for you ...the press gets the story wrong, lies or other wise does not have the information. :wink:

Syria has SA-17's, as well as a completely integrated state-of-the-art Russian air-defense network. It was bought and installed several years ago, about 4-6 months before that weird Israeli air raid on the Syrian nuclear site in 2007.

The 2007 air strike caused a great deal of interest in the defense industry when it occurred, because it raises a whole lot of questions. The next-gen Russian air-defense systems were thought to be pretty effective, and the SA-17 in particular was thought of as being pretty damn good, and yet the Israelis were able to overrun it with impunity using last-generation fighters and countermeasures, with no losses.

It raises questions as to the efficacy of the whole russian system, which is a big export item for the Russians, and they were pissed that the IDF got in and out without losing single aircraft.
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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by Megalith » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:11 am

crypto wrote:
raptor wrote:

The thing that strikes me is that SA-17's are pretty sophisticated and expensive. It is far more expensive and sophisticated than hezbolla would normally be able to afford and deploy.

These are not hand held missiles nor are they simple and easy to deploy and put in service. They require support and training to use effectively. Thus the key question that comes to mind (assuming the cover story is correct which honestly I suspect is not the case) is who is paying for these missiles and why attack them in Syria. There is a long path from Syria to hezbolla territory. It would have been simpler and less provacative to simply let them get to their destination and use artillery strikes or air strikes when they were either in transit or being setup.

Since Russia is pissed and Turkey is concerned over this I have look at this and say this is not what it is reported to be...there is a new one for you ...the press gets the story wrong, lies or other wise does not have the information. :wink:

Syria has SA-17's, as well as a completely integrated state-of-the-art Russian air-defense network. It was bought and installed several years ago, about 4-6 months before that weird Israeli air raid on the Syrian nuclear site in 2007.

The 2007 air strike caused a great deal of interest in the defense industry when it occurred, because it raises a whole lot of questions. The next-gen Russian air-defense systems were thought to be pretty effective, and the SA-17 in particular was thought of as being pretty damn good, and yet the Israelis were able to overrun it with impunity using last-generation fighters and countermeasures, with no losses.

It raises questions as to the efficacy of the whole russian system, which is a big export item for the Russians, and they were pissed that the IDF got in and out without losing single aircraft.
They got in flying really low, not that the System failed.

The same would of occured if the roles were reversed.

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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by Stercutus » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:29 pm

They got in flying really low, not that the System failed.

The same would of occurred if the roles were reversed.
Not quite. There are a lot of other issues there related to training, motivation and resourcing that can make what should be a perfectly functioning system function less perfectly.


Megalith wrote:
crypto wrote:I think we'd likely stay out of iran, Israel is chomping at the bit to flatten them. All the State Dept has to do is give them a wink and they'll be on it like white on rice.
Don't be too sure of that.

If Israel could strike Iran (without Nukes) it would of.

I've heard rumors that Syria responded to the Air Strike by Attacking the Diamol Reactor, since neither side want's to escalate things further (I.E Israel admit it's 'air defence' is fundamentally flawed, and Syria not wanting to fight multiple wars at once) it wasn't really reported....
Well again if you look at capability on paper it would seem near impossible to do so. Israel has proven time and again that they can do what was thought militarily impossible.
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Re: Russia slams Israeli attack on Syria

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:14 pm

Megalith wrote: They got in flying really low, not that the System failed.

The same would of occured if the roles were reversed.
Citation required. I'd like to know how you know the altitude they came in at, the capabilities and limitations of the defense system vs Israeli aircraft, and the capabilities and limitations of Russian aircraft vs Israeli defense systems.
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