What makes a headshot a headshot?

[Jeriah]

Props to Erik for the anatomy lesson, and particularly for the insight as to what effect a hit to different parts of the brain might have on a zombie (as opposed to on a living person). I'm going to base my comments on Erik's anatomy analysis but looking towards a tactical application.

I think the basic take-away from Erik's anatomy lesson is, "Shoot a zombie anywhere from the nose up and you stand a good chance of destroying its ability to move." This seems likely based on the diagrams provided, with the caveat that there are a lot of areas that aren't necessarily used by a zombie and so a hit to those areas might have little or no effect.

What I cannot help but thinking of is a line from Return of the Living Dead: "It worked in the movie!" (Referring to NOTLD, when shooting a zombie in the head didn't work.) Obviously speculating on killing zombies is based on extrapolating from a fictional universe but as we've been doing in this thread, it can be done with some logic. Nevertheless, I think it's important to remember that it IS speculation; therefore when the time comes that one of us sees the first zombie coming at us, take nothing for granted.

I would say that, for myself, I plan on aiming at the triangular area encompassing both eyes and the nose, with the points of the triangle being at the outside corners of each eye and at the center of the upper lip. My reason for this is based on the idea of avoiding the thick, domed surface of the skull, which anecdotally I have heard often deflects low-velocity rounds. Also, I have heard this triangular zone, probably analagous to the "T-zone" described above, as the ideal target area on living humans, as well. (Can't recall where I heard this, probably some book on defensive shooting but I don't recall for sure.)

If one or two rounds to this area does not produce the desired effect, I plan on shifting my point of aim slightly higher, to the forehead. It may be for example that from my angle, the rounds are hitting the face in the correct area but passing to the right or left of the cerebellum and brainstem, or that on a zombie it turns out they don't need their cerebellum and brainstem as much as I'd thought. Hopefully if the cerebellum isn't critical the cerebrum is.

After the first engagement, of course, I'll remember what worked, and do that first, next time. Assuming, that is, I survive the first engagement.

[Oneswunk]

How about anywhere above the neck. Fuck this thread made me want to get shot in the head.

[Twitchur]

What you want to hit is behind it, as a shot with a hollow point to that area will probably take down any target.[/quote]


Hollow Points are ok for soft tissue, but if you are attempting to puncture the skull, then your best bet would be a fast moving small caliber with some type of ballistic tip. Punch through the skull and blow up in the brain. Zeds can't go with scrambled eggs for brains...

[kakidarling]

"By the same token why waste ammo when blunt objects work just fine."


******** I would much rather shoot it from afar, than wait until it was close enough for me to clonk it in the head. **********

[Mr. E. Monkey]

"By the same token why waste ammo when blunt objects work just fine."


******** I would much rather shoot it from afar, than wait until it was close enough for me to clonk it in the head. **********

Couldn't say it any better.

Welcome to Zombie Squad!

[UndeadGaming]

Just use a high caliber gun

[shastadude17]

Anatomically speaking, the only 100% sure kill shot is at the brain stem, which a general reference point of aim is the tip of the nose so long as the round penetrates without any kind of deflection. Body goes limp, lights out. A guy locally here in the Sarasota, FL area recently was robbed and knocked to the ground and "executed" with a forehead shot, full penetration out the back of the skull. He survived and identified the shooter for responding officers. Sometimes things happen =]

[GP11]

A guy locally here in the Sarasota, FL area recently was robbed and knocked to the ground and "executed" with a forehead shot, full penetration out the back of the skull. He survived and identified the shooter for responding officers. Sometimes things happen =]

Bullets, especially slow bullets, do strange things in tissue. For a guaranteed stop, even with a head shot, you need the disruption effects of a high-velocity rifle bullet entering the cranial vault.

[rmherbert]

all motor control starts in the brain zak or not.sever the spinal column at the base of the brain (m.o.), no more motor control.

seems to me i read a few years back that thomas noguchi said typically, whenever there is a rifle calibre gsw to the upper lip or above, there is no head left to id. so, i guess even 5.56mm is going to split the melon.

[MonsterZero]

I think any expanding ammo bigger than a .22 or so should work. If it doesn't totally destroy the head, the bullets passage will be nough to turn the surrounding brain tissue to mush. If all you have is a .22, you're not SOL. It will still be enough to penetrate some parts of the skull within its effective range, and will probably do a bit of bouncing around in there and liquify the brain.

[Zombland]

Assuming the target is standing, target the philtrum, with expectation that the round will penetrate/destroy the brain stem. Even a 22LR should penetrate the soft palate and enter the sensitive parts. Of course, "expectation" does not equal "guarantee", so being prepared for follow-up shots should be SOP.

[Headshot2grape]

A Headshot is when you hit the apricot /cortex it is a no reflex shot they drop if you miss it they do the dance of death some times they will run with arms flailing.

[Knuckles 63090]

Bullets don't act like they do in hollywood.
I've made headshots with small calibers (think .222 and .223) that act like a grenade. I've made headshots with very large bullets (think .338) that made no more than a pencil sized entry/exit wound.
Just remember that it's all about the bullet you're shooting. A 40 grain nosler ballistic tip will cause more catastrophic damage than a 70gr FMJ.

I agree with the .22 statement, now I was told that if you was to make an imaginary triangle from the outer corners of the eyes down to the bottom of the chin. The area would do the max damage when a bullet hits the area. The shock caused by the bullet in this area would fracture the brain stem and cause the skull to shoot fragments into the brain. Also the damage from the loss of CSF and blood loss could add to the damage. Also while helping reduce the population of the evil squirrels for, a great dinner, I have also seen the .22 LR hollow point do an insane amount of damage to a squirrel head. When I worked at a butcher shop we would drop cattle, sheep, pork, etc, with a .22 revolver. We would aim for about 1/2 to one inch above the center of the eyes pointing to the spinal column.
With swine we would halve the animal. I would look at the "trail from the bullet" and I would see the damage. I would suggest calling around to a butcher shop and getting a skull (fresh kill) and take that and practice with. A sheep or goat head should suffice for a human analog.

[zombehboy]

far as i'm concerned as long as you take out the frontal lobe it's all gravy. or maybe a round through the eyesocket.

[TardArm]

Personally I'm a fan of a high wall and a good cinderblock on a rope. Easily accessible and replaceable, and I'm pretty sure you'd see gray matter pretty quick, and depending on your circumstance you've got all the time in the world.

[MacWa77ace]

I think any hit in the head can be called a headshot. Jeriah is right on though, the area is called the Ocular Cranial Cavity and that is what you want to hit, this shot is the only sure Zombie stopper. [for zombies that require a 'headshot'] Anything landing outside this area could result in a more enraged and determined Zed.



Just ask former US senator Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona or former White House Press Secretary James Brady how OCC targeting works, or doesn't.



Damaged but not stopped.

[REMOVED]
STOPPED

[MacWa77ace]

Hmm, instructions.

[rednekrampager]

How about this head shot, sucker twitched for 5 minutes.

[shiddymunkie]

One thing that has been overlooked here is that, because zombies have working senses (sight, hearing, smell, etc) and because they have motor functions (walking, grabbing, biting, etc) certain parts of the brain must still be active. The only exception would be some sort of supernatural force behind the reanimation, in which case you're SOL no matter what area of the brain you hit.




With this in mind, even "shallow" or non-centralized head shots can be effective against zombies, in theory. Of course, this topic is sort of pointless since there is an inherent paradox with the biology of the "living dead". The only reason a brainstem shot is a sure kill to a normal person is because that area of the brain regulates vital organs. But if those same organs are dead in a zombie, then I don't see why even a brainstem shot would be effective, you know? Basically your stereotypical zombie is able to do things the defy biological explanation, as well as the law of conservation of energy. Accepting those possibilities as viable premises (which is what we are all doing by having this discussion) basically throws all reasonable theories of "where to shoot" out the window.

Sorry, but its true.

[VinnieD]

Personally I' say anywhere that influences gross motor control will do the job. Or in general strip away the wrinkly bits to the "reptile brain" and that's what you need to hit. Anywhere along the center should get the job done. A grazng hit might not do it with a low velocity round, but most anything high velocity like a magnum handgun round or a rifle round should wreck th entire brain due to hydrostatic shock. Alternately a shotgun can wreck so much area as to make accuracy a non-issue.

So maybe .22lr isn't the ideal anti-zombie round. Zombie snipng round maybe if they're totally unaware of you and you're safe up on a roof and planning to pick the off when you have plenty of time to zoom in and aim. Or maybe the zombie virus can't persist in the presence of oxygen and ventilating the skull in general will do the deed.

[zephyriguana]

Here is my 'understanding'.
Act like there is a line that goes around the skull, the width of the eyes, at the same level as the eyes.
From there, between the eyes, dropping down the center of the face, and roughly the width of the nose is a vertical line.
Granted, this depends on said Zed being obligatory and facing you straight on.
In any event. A round that travels through that line, front to back, will in theory, find the structures that relay instructions from the brain to the rest of the body. Sever that link, the zombie is kaput.
In principle, that is why the best angle to attack a zombie is from the rear aspect, and at the base of the skull. Working on the separation of spine and brain.
I doubt that just any head shot would have the desired effects, since people, not zeds, have lived with bits of their brain removed. This leads me to believe that just shooting haphazardly, and opening a zombie's skull like a can of peas will not have the desired effect of eliminating the zombie. Granted, if you vacate the zombie's skull of said brain matter, using a big enough gun, it is conceivable that you would have the desired results. However, depending on the sort of zombie, you may have just conceivably contaminated several bystanders with zombie goo, resulting in infection spreading, an undesirable event.