In a legitimate zombie apocalypse..AR or AK?

[zombietacgear]

I don't think there's a definitive answer to that question. Both have strengths and weaknesses. I'm an AR guy, but I'm beginning to appreciate the simplicity and durability of the AK. In the end, I think lots of focused, efficient training is more important than what platform you choose.
There are some examples of the AR I would stay away from, however. I just got to shoot the HK MR556 (civilian version of the HK416, HK's version of the M4/AR), and it would not be my choice for surviving a legitimate zombie apocalypse. I posted a detailed review here: http://zombietacgear.com/?p=59
out of the box performance was solid, but the gun is more complicated than I would like for a survival situation where parts and tools may be hard to come by.

[JToth]

Piston AR

[squinty]

Piston AR

This post will generate many responses.

[ei8htx]

Piston AR

This post will generate many responses.

Why? I think it's a great idea. That way it doesn't shit where it eats. I mean, hell, the ruskies figured it out 67 years ago. Meanwhile over here we're trading in our battle rifles for something that can't reliably penetrate winter clothing. I guess that's what happens when the airforce contracts a toy company to make a replacement rifle for the whole military. For fucks sake, they had to put a forward assist on it just to fix the jamming. Name a single other rifle that has such a thing.

[SteamPunk]

How much cleaning/lube does an AK need compared to an AR?

AK's are built with looser tolerances in caves and huts in Pakistan while AR's are MPI tested and parkarized in state of the art facilities in America.

That's why I'd have an AR: Because I'm not in Pakistan

But a piston AR would be the best of both worlds no doubt.

[SeerSavant]

I love my SGL21, it's what I am most comfy with, it's what I'm stockpiling ammo for... It's rugged, it's well made, it's accurate to a range where I may need it (any farther and I'm hauling ass the other way) It's good enough, it's smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like it....


But It wouldn't be the only one. If I'm not limited to it, I would probably take another rifle... My Winchester pump in .22.
Also have a Marlin 60 in .22 as well.

And while I love the SGL, if I'm on foot and have to hump the rifle, the ammo, and water and food everywhere, I don't wanna keel over from heatstroke.

Comfortably I can carry a half dozen magazines of 7.62, maybe more in a backpack, but we are talking, what? 250 maybe 300 rounds?

I can carry over 2000 rounds of .22 in my jacket pockets, easily.


My 2 cents...



Oh, and the AR is an equally fantastic platform as the AK. To debate which is better is borderline retarded. Try both, and one will feel like it belongs more, you will naturally enjoy shooting it more, and spend more time with it. Pick that one.
Firing them until your handguards catch fire is beside the point, full auto is a waste of ammo (unless your part of a squad, and firing supressive fire against the line of terminators who will no doubt kill you before you finish your first magazine.... Aliens, you'd be better off sneezing at them... Bullets don't work, but we all know that boogers do.)

Hmmm, I'm either rambling again, or this sense of deja vu means I'm repeating myself...

That's all I got, gotta go find a serious thread... 9mm versus .45 sounds good, with luck it will degenerate into a Glock versus 1911 thread... whoooohoooo!

[Kutter_0311]

OK, I shall grace the OP with my thought-out, honest answer to my interpretation of his question...

-AK74 (specificly: SGL31)
-5.45
-TWS Dogleg Rail/ACOG
-Ultimak/Aimpoint Micro
-PVS-14/PEQ-2 type device
-VCAS/mash hook
-BSC AK74 Chest Rig (7-mag variant)
-Med ALICE/1606 ruck

REASONING

-AK requires minimal maintenance over the life of the weapon, even in harsh conditions, with minimal part failure.
-5.45 yeilds a flat trajectory along with lighter ammo, allowing more ammo to be carried(vs 7.62x39).
-TWS/ACOG primary optic allows target ID/headshot to 200-300m, though IDK if 5.56 BDC works well with 5.45 trajectory
-Aimpoint Micro backs up ACOG in very unlikely event of breakage/failure for minimal weight
-PVS-14/PEQ-2 allows target ID/engagement at night, as well as allowing running like a muthafucka in the dark!
-Sling works great for AK's, giving support for shooting and allowing rifle never to be set down.
-Chest rig allows ample ammo at hand w/ minimal bulk, and allows other needed gear to be added.
-Ruck carries more ammo, water, and food needed to stay alive w/o being heavy/getting in the way.

While this is tailored to the running gunfight of a zombpocalypse, it pretty much constitutes my ideal light-fighter setup. Head shots are needed and accounted for. The only thing I would want that is not readily available is a Red Jacket AK74SD, as they only offer a suppressed AK47 at the moment. A quieter rifle would be needed if one wants to avoid drawwing every fucking zed in earshot. While I know a suppressed '74 won't be "movie-quiet," AWC's suppressed 10/22 wasn't one of the given rifle options

Ultimate zombpocalypse rifle/sidearm combo:

AWC Ultra II Semi-Auto
AWC Amphibian S

[AK47Heaven]

OK, I shall grace the OP with my thought-out, honest answer to my interpretation of his question...

-AK74 (specificly: SGL31)
-5.45
-TWS Dogleg Rail/ACOG
-Ultimak/Aimpoint Micro
-PVS-14/PEQ-2 type device
-VCAS/mash hook
-BSC AK74 Chest Rig (7-mag variant)
-Med ALICE/1606 ruck

REASONING

-AK requires minimal maintenance over the life of the weapon, even in harsh conditions, with minimal part failure.
-5.45 yeilds a flat trajectory along with lighter ammo, allowing more ammo to be carried(vs 7.62x39).
-TWS/ACOG primary optic allows target ID/headshot to 200-300m, though IDK if 5.56 BDC works well with 5.45 trajectory
-Aimpoint Micro backs up ACOG in very unlikely event of breakage/failure for minimal weight
-PVS-14/PEQ-2 allows target ID/engagement at night, as well as allowing running like a muthafucka in the dark!
-Sling works great for AK's, giving support for shooting and allowing rifle never to be set down.
-Chest rig allows ample ammo at hand w/ minimal bulk, and allows other needed gear to be added.
-Ruck carries more ammo, water, and food needed to stay alive w/o being heavy/getting in the way.

While this is tailored to the running gunfight of a zombpocalypse, it pretty much constitutes my ideal light-fighter setup. Head shots are needed and accounted for. The only thing I would want that is not readily available is a Red Jacket AK74SD, as they only offer a suppressed AK47 at the moment. A quieter rifle would be needed if one wants to avoid drawwing every fucking zed in earshot. While I know a suppressed '74 won't be "movie-quiet," AWC's suppressed 10/22 wasn't one of the given rifle options

Ultimate zombpocalypse rifle/sidearm combo:

AWC Ultra II Semi-Auto
AWC Amphibian S

Thank you Kutter!!For fucks sake that is the first honest well thought out answer.This is all I wanted to hear but from different peoples perspectives.

[Bad Penny 08]

why...why...?

[Kutter_0311]

Thank you Kutter!!For fucks sake that is the first honest well thought out answer.This is all I wanted to hear but from different peoples perspectives.

In defense of the others, it is an AKvsAR thread. I'm just glad most of the responses were rather homorous. Some of the flame wars on AKvsAR were just hateful... Honestly, so many threads degenerate into AKvsAR, or go through that phase, that it's kinda old. I've skipped pages of crap in threads that were wholely unrelated.

Your question I thought was at least direct, and it pleasantly suspended disbelief, like The Walking Dead. Really, the benefits of either are pretty well known, even if some of it gets played up a bit. I've personally come to the conclusion that the AK74 is about the best of the bunch, and it's the next rifle I want to buy. I base that opinion on my sevice years carrying an M16A2, my current use of the SGL21, and my presumption that the SGL31 will be at least as accurate as my SGL21's. I spent an afternoon zeroing the irons on my SGL21's at a local range, and they group no worse at 100m than my .308 Rem 742 that I use for deer hunting. While the iron sights do kinda suck, I got some good practice using them, and any combat rifle really deserves a good combat optic.

I feel the 5.56 M16 family and the 5.45 AK74 family are ultimately roughly equivalent ballisticly, but the M16 is still a weapon requiring a support system(replacement parts), and that is it's fatal flaw as a survival-type rifle. The M16 requires a bit of basic care to function, and that's fine, it has other strengths as a service rifle. Parts can readily be swapped, you can turn an 11" M4 CQB gun with a dedicated optic into a 20" DMR/mountain rifle with dedicated optic by swapping uppers. It's an adaptable platform, if the organization employing it chooses to adapt it properly to each scenario.

The AK74 is less adaptable, but is a good middle-ground gun: Like the ACOG, it does most things pretty well, and doesn't totally suck at any required task. It is a little big for CQB, it's a bit tough to mount an optic, but there are also pretty good ways to make those work, too. It's not a 20" DMR, but it can reach a good ways. It's simplicity is it's strength: it does what it does, and with minimal maintenance will continue to do it with predictable results for a good, long tome. Most AK's functional lifespan is longer than their barrel life, but that may all last longer if the operator bothers to clean and lube it once a week or so. A simple boresnake, lube/solvent/used motor oil, and a snot rag and old toothbrush are about all you need. Because it fills all needs good enough without failing any, all in one package, with excellent reliability and part life, I dub the AK74 my #1 survival-type rifle, followed closely by the AK47.

[LowKey]

That's all I got, gotta go find a serious thread... 9mm versus .45 sounds good, with luck it will degenerate into a Glock versus 1911 thread... whoooohoooo!

How about a 9mm Glock vs a .45ACP M1911A1 thread? Surely it could be educational and would be discussed calmly with logic and impartiality.

[Bad Penny 08]

Ha
I'm going CZ-75 in .41 Action Express just to be contrary.

[SeerSavant]

That's all I got, gotta go find a serious thread... 9mm versus .45 sounds good, with luck it will degenerate into a Glock versus 1911 thread... whoooohoooo!

How about a 9mm Glock vs a .45ACP M1911A1 thread? Surely it could be educational and would be discussed calmly with logic and impartiality.

I agree, but I just hope avoid bringing in other choices (as if...) because I'm just not sure if either could stack up against the Taurus Judge... Quality firearms, those Tauruses... Tauruses? Tauri???



OT; I actually like hearing the reasoning behind the choices, with a bit of tongue in cheek, I cast my choice on the SGL, but I think I said that sometimes the platform chooses the shooter, rather than the other way around...


Hey, Kutter, how are you liking the Beez? I have been kinda wishing for a light weight chest rig, and the Beez 7.62 and the Attack Rack from Palm seem to be two at the top of my wish list.

Ha
I'm going CZ-75 in .41 Action Express just to be contrary.

Bren 10, Jackass shoulder rig in havana brown, pastel tee shirt, casual jacket and slacks.... Loafers, no socks... Just because it's the right thing to do....

Actually, I've been looking hard on the CZ-75... If I get one, it might just have to replace the 1911... I know, blasphemy, but...





Came into this thread thinking it might end up somewhere between and but gotta say its actually kinda ....

[LowKey]

Came into this thread thinking it might end up somewhere between and but gotta say its actually kinda ....

Well, for once the OP gave us better parameters on which to base our opinions.

"Which is better for <specific scenario> ? " is quite a bit different that "Which is better?"

Plus most of us posting in this thread are just more cool and mature and stuff in comparison to everyone else....

[Bad Penny 08]

I'll see you a Galco Miami Classic.

[Kutter_0311]

Hey, Kutter, how are you liking the Beez? I have been kinda wishing for a light weight chest rig, and the Beez 7.62 and the Attack Rack from Palm seem to be two at the top of my wish list.

I don't have a Beez... Yet. All I have is my black Eagle 3-mag, which is solid, but the flaps have started to irritate me. A lot. Like the general blackness of it always did. I snatched the Eagle at SKD because I needed it for Milcopp, but it's far from the rig of my dreams. It works well, but it's kinda old-school, and I want something a bit more up-to-date. The Beez looks like the Knees, to me, and they seem really open to adding any crazy shit you can think of. Next buy, totally.

The bungie retention looks like what I thought an AK mag would need, a corner catch, and it's simple. The mags sit a bit deep to get the right 'mag clit' grip, but I think I can work around it. I'm tempted to get the 7-mag job just to have plenty of real estate to add things in a low-pro way. I may even have PALS put on the shoulder straps because I like how it works on the Eagle... AND I CAN GET IT IN MULTICAM! GOOD-BYE BLACK!

[SeerSavant]

I'll see you a Galco Miami Classic.

Formerly the Jackass Leather company... Same exact thing, I had one years ago for a Ruger, and loved it... Sold it with the Ruger, didn't love the pistol quite as much as the shoulder holster. Gotta get another...

The Beez looks like the Knees, to me, and they seem really open to adding any crazy shit you can think of. Next buy, totally.

The bungie retention looks like what I thought an AK mag would need, a corner catch, and it's simple. The mags sit a bit deep to get the right 'mag clit' grip, but I think I can work around it. I'm tempted to get the 7-mag job just to have plenty of real estate to add things in a low-pro way. I may even have PALS put on the shoulder straps because I like how it works on the Eagle... AND I CAN GET IT IN MULTICAM! GOOD-BYE BLACK!

I think I'm gonna get the AK47 version with 5 mag pouch, and the X straps with the pull forwards... The price is just too good.

I'm thinking Olive or Ranger Green...

Oh, man.... I'm a gear whore! .....

[Kutter_0311]

I think I'm gonna get the AK47 version with 5 mag pouch, and the X straps with the pull forwards... The price is just too good.

I'm thinking Olive or Ranger Green...

Oh, man.... I'm a gear whore! .....

Hey, everyone needs gear that works, and I think this is the best bet, by far. Don't feel shy about it.

I've used too much gear that was only marginally functional. Time for the good stuff!

[ancient_serpent]

I chose the AR series of rifles for my primary "go-to" guns. I have two D.I. and one gas piston AR at this time. My brothers have AR rifles as their primary guns as well. We're all current or prior military and are trained on the use/maintenance of that type of rifle. I have a small stock of spare parts for any forseeable maintenance. The AR made sense for us because of the years of training/experience, we all use 5.56/.223 ammunition and standard AR magazines. In my experience I have seen many different types of rifles fail or require maintenance, as all machine eventually do. The AR is very reliable and rugged, requires minumal maintenance and is very easy to use. The ability to quickly change the rifle for different situations is a big plus, as well. Ammunition is common and easy to find.

[Czechnology]

*Looks at 6.8 AR with 400 rounds...Looks at 7.62 VEPR with 500 rounds...Looks at Super Enforcer with 300 rounds...Looks at Eberlestock Gunslinger II...*

Why choose one, right? Now I've got two long-arms and a sidearm! Who needs food right?

I have more 9mm than you have rifle carts combined. I am disappoint.

OT: I have 1 AR and 3 AKs. I'd probably take the AR and the Type-84S. Both are 5.56, both are accurate, reliable weapons.

[ei8htx]

Oh, I forgot to add, the AR was designed to wound

[LowKey]

Oh, I forgot to add, the AR was designed to wound

...and they have ammo for the AK that will shoot through a tank.

[AK47Heaven]

If you're talkign about an endless zombie rampage, then you have Done It Wrong from the beginning, and neither gun will suffice. What you need is a belt-fed weapon with spare barrels. In the scenario revision given, neither system will boast a great edge over the other.

[YouTube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W4WT0zFV2Q&feature=related[/YouTube] Like this?

[sgt zombie]

sgt has both ak's and ar's....if he has only these to choose from, he will go with the ak.