Here's my problem with fighting Zombies

[sharpie44]

Ok with the hypothetical Zombie you have to destroy the brain. Well here's my problem with that scenario.

I've seen pictures and news reports of people getting stabbed, shot with arrows and even shot in the head and living threw it. Granted the gun shot wound guy was a vegetable after the fact but the others were just fine.

And on top of that I would think that most of the brain function would be in the lower reptilian brain judging by the lack of cognition and higher thought. So just hitting the dome probably wouldn't work.

I really don't see a knife or any small weapon even a hatchet doing the job.

Your going to need a sledge or a full axe to do the job of caving in the head. Then you have to worry about the arms getting in the way of your swing and them grabbing you because your only 4 feet away at the most.

I have a bayonet on a a number of my guns and I only see that maybe holding them in place wile someone beats the thing to death.

Normal hand to hand combat is useless even with a weapon be cause most forms of combat and weapons are designed to just hurting them bad enough to get them out of the fight. Thats not going to work.

Your even going to have to watch the round you use because if it over penetrates it might not do the job or just blow of a chunk of skull. .45 acp, .38 special, .357, 45 long colt could all do it but other calibers like the .17, 7.62x25(normally one of my favorites) and even the .223 rifle cartage get most of there inertia from velocity and would pass right threw the skull. It might do enough damage it might not.

I could be over thinking this.

[The Punisher]

In my experience, head shots 99% of time meant the person died (right away or soon thereafter). If the brain is what controls a zombie then damaging it also effects its functions. I don't think you need to destroy it completely to put it down. Doing to it what would put a person into a coma should also put the zombie into one.

I read a zombie book where blunt force or otherwise damaging the brain put it down but didn't kill it. I like that theory. But then the question is, should the brain heal and bring the Zombie back up, or is he out for good?

But regardless... hitting a person in the brain usually does the job in my street experience (from seeing those kinds of wounds). There are those odd nailgun, knife, etc in the head that defy the theory.

Like:



But most of the time those freak attacks miss the brain completely or don't cause much damage. A bullet ripping through a Zombies brain is likely to cause massive damage as it tumbles through or around inside the skull.

I'm a firm believer that if we had to contend with conventional Zombies that they could be put down with a shot to the brain. Unfortunately there are off chances you could miss or graze the skull as well.

Just remember though... "Aim small, miss small".

[Molon Labe]

For a zombie, it's not just the brain in general that one should aim for; but the brain "stem". Right between the eyes, right behind the ears' upper lobes, or right where the spine meets the skull. That general area is what controls the involuntary actions such as breathing, seeing, smelling, blah, blah, blah. It's also the electrical output center of the body. The "main junction/transfer box" if you will. Destroy that and they're down for good. A rifle shot may not need to hit it directly due to hydrostactic shock and the resulting "soup effect or cavatation" though. The end result will more than likely be a killing blow as long as the shot is a good solid thru and thru of the brain case and not a glance. It may not destroy the brain stem, but the damage will be done.

[Trent]

Could a zed still move abit after being decapitated? I've seen snakes that were killed hours ago bite at sticks and smash their bloody stump of a neck against people trying to skin them. I hope snakes are unique in that respect.

Another freaky non-lethal headshot incident happened at a hospital a friend worked at in the 1990s. An ambulance was called to the scene of a truck crash, and found the naked driver comatose behind the wheel.
Oddly enough, he had a chunk of wood and a bloody towel in the seat next to him, and a bullet hole out the top of his head.

The police investigators went to his house and found a bathtub full of bloody water and a handgun on a shelf in the next room. After interviewing his family members and reviewing the evidence, they decided that he was depressed after his wife left him and tried to commit suicide.
From what they could tell, he had sat in the bathtub and stuck either a 9mm or .38 in his mouth and shot himself. For a few seconds, he sank under the water, but then got out of the bath, put the towel against the wound in his skull, and dropped the gun on the shelf.
He then apparently stumbled toward his truck, picked up the plank of wood, and tried to drive to the hospital.
Needless to say, it didn't work.

He fired a handgun at point blank range through his skull, and was able to do all of that before being rendered immobile.
Now, imagine what a creature that has no requirements for higher brain function might be able to sustain.

[Molon Labe]

He fired a handgun at point blank range through his skull, and was able to do all of that before being rendered immobile.
Now, imagine what a creature that has no requirements for higher brain function might be able to sustain.

Like I said. The brain stem is the insta-kill zone.

The act of striking, when it comes to vipers atleast, is a reaction that is hard wired into the snakes physiology. Touch a certain part in it's mouth (as long as the brain is still holding a charge) and the mouth will clamp down. Same goes for gators. The brain automatically sends the signal to clamp shut on whatever is in the mouth/maw.

[Finch]

Be afraid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

[darkangel98s]

so, instead of a head shot, we are aiming at the brain stem/ throat/ spinal area. The back of the neck is a good melee hit area. Hmmmm.

[Tuukka]

I suppose it really depends on where you aim. I took a defensive shooting class two years ago, and the instructor said that if you're behind the threat, the best shot possible to keep them down is to the medulla oblongata. I believe a show was on the History channel that also backed up that point. It's such a narrow shot, and it is somewhat hard to practice at ranges past 7 yards and expecting to be hitting it consistently without considering the stress you'd be under in the situation.

To be honest, I'd instinctivly put a double tap into the zombies chest. Why? Cause that's how I was trained. When the zombie gets up, I'll probably be saying "what the fuck? oh yeah, headshots! thanks Zombie Squad!". Just my .02

Edit; it's scary to read something like what Trent posted. It does make me question that "what if the threat gets back up AFTER the headshot?". Than again that does relate to the whole 'smash the head or burn the body' idea. I guess if and when that happens, I'll kick myself in the ass for not buying a 12ga/500 S&W.

[Greatestsin]

I suppose it really depends on where you aim. I took a defensive shooting class two years ago, and the instructor said that if you're behind the threat, the best shot possible to keep them down is to the medulla oblongata. I believe a show was on the History channel that also backed up that point. It's such a narrow shot, and it is somewhat hard to practice at ranges past 7 yards and expecting to be hitting it consistently without considering the stress you'd be under in the situation.

To be honest, I'd instinctivly put a double tap into the zombies chest. Why? Cause that's how I was trained. When the zombie gets up, I'll probably be saying "what the fuck? oh yeah, headshots! thanks Zombie Squad!". Just my .02

Edit; it's scary to read something like what Trent posted. It does make me question that "what if the threat gets back up AFTER the headshot?". Than again that does relate to the whole 'smash the head or burn the body' idea. I guess if and when that happens, I'll kick myself in the ass for not buying a 12ga/500 S&W.

I would be asking you why you weren't getting the eff out of dodge the moment it dropped. I for one don't care as much if it kills it as long as it slows it down enough to get it out of my way. I know i'm not a trained shooting professional and i'll be looking to disable and maneuver around quick as can be. all the practice shooting in a static environment at unmoving silhouettes with no stress won't guarantee headshots in the PAW. only attempt what you know you can do, wasting lots of precious time and ammo on headshots if you are not trained professionally can be detrimental to your health

[Tuukka]

I would be asking you why you weren't getting the eff out of dodge the moment it dropped. I for one don't care as much if it kills it as long as it slows it down enough to get it out of my way. I know i'm not a trained shooting professional and i'll be looking to disable and maneuver around quick as can be. all the practice shooting in a static environment at unmoving silhouettes with no stress won't guarantee headshots in the PAW. only attempt what you know you can do, wasting lots of precious time and ammo on headshots if you are not trained professionally can be detrimental to your health

I can see where you're coming from. I sure as hell don't plan to dig in. That's a last resort, and I'll never depend/resort on it. Only way I can see not being prepared for a threat would be at night or while at work. Slowing down the threat is one thing, but I can see a couple of sitations where killing the threat may become the only option. Getting out will definetly remain at the top of my list.

[Greatestsin]

I would be asking you why you weren't getting the eff out of dodge the moment it dropped. I for one don't care as much if it kills it as long as it slows it down enough to get it out of my way. I know i'm not a trained shooting professional and i'll be looking to disable and maneuver around quick as can be. all the practice shooting in a static environment at unmoving silhouettes with no stress won't guarantee headshots in the PAW. only attempt what you know you can do, wasting lots of precious time and ammo on headshots if you are not trained professionally can be detrimental to your health

I can see where you're coming from. I sure as hell don't plan to dig in. That's a last resort, and I'll never depend/resort on it. Only way I can see not being prepared for a threat would be at night or while at work. Slowing down the threat is one thing, but I can see a couple of sitations where killing the threat may become the only option. Getting out will definetly remain at the top of my list.

should killing it be the case, surely stopping it with a double tap to the chest or a non-lethal headshot will give you another second to calm down, breathe, and blow the fuckers control nodule right off. or maybe another person to swing with the axe. lots of options here still and i think we shouldn't be so hung up on just getting headshots. i agree that making dead things better is good but there are realistic, logical ways to do it and there is the way we all talk about doing it on internet forums.

[Juggernaut 0504]

something to consider though is the brain, tissue and maby the bones are degrading, and are weaker on a old zombie. you could always shoot for the leg, or knee cap, to disable a zombie for a easy head shot

[Jonathan]

This is why in the past I have advocated removing / disabling a zombie's means of attack and or locomotion. A headshot may or may not put it down for good, but a severed arm is going to have a hard time grabbing you.

Against a single zombie, maybe even a small group, taking off arms and legs allows you some opportunity to work out a more permanent solution. I still say chop 'em apart and light 'em up.

If dealing with a mob, I wouldn't even focus on permanent destruction. Hit whatever is in reach with something that will knock it down, and get out of there before it can get back up. I think Greatestsin there has the right idea.

[AZMedic]

From training and case reports most people aim to vertical when placing the gun in their mouth. This just gives them a lobotomy. Doesn't kill all of 'em.

Now a pistol and a shotglass will make stew out of the insides......

[Mr. E. Monkey]

From training and case reports most people aim to vertical when placing the gun in their mouth. This just gives them a lobotomy. Doesn't kill all of 'em.

Now a pistol and a shotglass will make stew out of the insides......

Hmm. Copper coated medicine AND glass shards! Yummy!

On the subject of slowing down/immobilizing zombies for the easier rekill, how about doing something like this?

[AZMedic]

Thats a great idea monkey.

Maybe mix some bob wire in there and you have a nasty trap.

[Molon Labe]

Or just dig a lot of shallow, thin, trenches. Save the tires for something that'll need poly-synthetics. Or hell, even signaling. Black smoke is very easily spotted and carries quite high before disappating. Also good for producing a smoke-pot effect to blind enemy air support from seeing the ground, if burned in piles and kept spread evenly.

[Mr. E. Monkey]

Or just dig a lot of shallow, thin, trenches. Save the tires for something that'll need poly-synthetics. Or hell, even signaling. Black smoke is very easily spotted and carries quite high before disappating. Also good for producing a smoke-pot effect to blind enemy air support from seeing the ground, if burned in piles and kept spread evenly.

Oh, definitely, especially if you're not in a hurry. Heck, you could even string out some 550 cord or something around mid-shin height or so. I was just thinking of something that might be quick and fairly easy to deploy, and doesn't really require fixed fortifications. All you need is a choke point.

(But if it comes down to laying out tires to trip up zombies, I'm all for Getting The F Out of Dodge, with some purpose and motivation!)

[Jonathan]

The tire idea is quite clever, I wouldn't be surprised to see it stolen for a film in the future.

[AZMedic]

Copyright that idea.

The anti zombie tire trip device!!!

[Mr. E. Monkey]

Copyright that idea.

The anti zombie tire trip device!!!

If you're attacked by zombies, use this technique, and actually survive, I charge a low per-tire rate.

[Wolfe4086]

That why I use reactive mass ammo.

[Shadow_Man]

Hmmmm perhaps taking after the Mobs use of the venerable .22lr at close range might be another consideration. Several pops to the gourd and the .22 round penetrates and then bounces around inside the brain housing group pretty much turning everything to mush. Add a "Can" (suppressor) to the end of your .22 pistol and you've got a pretty quiet Zombie dispatcher. An added plus is that the ammunition is cheap, light and you can carry a heck of a lot of it.

I've seen some pretty sweet Ruger 10-22's at a local gun show that featured a synthetic rubber coated stock, a bull barrel and a huge flash suppressor on the end of the barrel which actually turned out to be an attached shroud for screwing "IN" an actual suppressor (silencer) inside of the flash suppressor. Pretty cool idea. It gave you a standard length barrel and was very quiet. Add a red dot scope or even a laser and you should be able to dispense Zombies with ease and in rapid routine.

As for close up work...I would think a machete would be the trick. A quick blow to the back of the neck would severe the spinal cord and that should drop the Zombie flat out. No signals going to the rest of the body...even if it's not dead it's been rendered harmless. Well it probably could still bite you if you stuck your foot in its mouth.

[K9Crew]

It does seem like bullets would be mostly ineffective against zombies unless you are an expert marksman that is why my preferred method for killing zombies especially in groups will be just plain old fire. Just find a way to coat them in gasoline and watch em burn. It would take a few minutes but I think you'll destroy the entire brain before long.