Leather

[Mygeeto]

leather is the best thing ever made....

i think leather is an excellent defence against zombie bites
if it was used as part of armour in the ancient times against swords and arrows n shit, itll help to stop a zombie

if its used nowaday as protection for bikers travelling at high speeds for when they have an accident, then its gonna help stop a zombie

[Ranked Below]

leather is the best thing ever made....

i think leather is an excellent defence against zombie bites
if it was used as part of armour in the ancient times against swords and arrows n shit, itll help to stop a zombie

if its used nowaday as protection for bikers travelling at high speeds for when they have an accident, then its gonna help stop a zombie

I said pretty much this on OZORT.

[Mygeeto]

I said pretty much this on OZORT.

i know you said it but i still want to give my input which may be similar to your opinion or anyone's...
the guys there wernt real friendly, it was basicly tyranny. i said pretty much everything i had to over there before i was banned.
who was that guy who owned the forum? he had a big ego n was on a power trip.. made it out like this forum was the best in the world and that everyone should bow down to him and blow him.

[Ranked Below]

I said pretty much this on OZORT.

i know you said it but i still want to give my input which may be similar to your opinion or anyone's...
the guys there wernt real friendly, it was basicly tyranny. i said pretty much everything i had to over there before i was banned.
who was that guy who owned the forum? he had a big ego n was on a power trip.. made it out like this forum was the best in the world and that everyone should bow down to him and blow him.

Yes, but your idea's there weren't the same as here, so you should check to see if the person who gave you the idea is on 2 boards.

[Erik]

I have a black leather jacket I bought at a mall leather shop for $200. Just yesterday, I tried to bite through it. Absolutely no dice.

My challenge: Bite as hard as you can on your leather jacket arm and see what you can do. The answer: not much!

-Erik

[AntiZombie Corps]

Yes leather Really helps. But what if they bite and Pull?????

[Erik]

Yes leather Really helps. But what if they bite and Pull?????

Then nothing. At worst, you might end up with some slightly torn flesh, but nothing with any zombie saliva in it. Try to bite and tear leather.

-Erik

[riply]

Try it with broken jagged teeth and no pain to stop you from biting.

[Erik]

Try it with broken jagged teeth and no pain to stop you from biting.

Well, that's a little hard for me to try, since I don't have broken teeth.

I'd still take a leather jacket over a t-shirt. Besides, if their teeth were broken and fracturing, I don't think they'd be strong enough to get through a leather jacket. Also, I can bite down on leather as hard as my jaw strength will let me with no pain. Do you have pain when you bite down that hard?

-Erik

[mrdbeau]

Try it with broken jagged teeth and no pain to stop you from biting.

There's really no way to get "broken jagged teeth" in the amount of time a zombie would be alive.

Now if we're talking some weird undead zombie thing, then yeah, they may have "broken jagged teeth," BUT, chances are by the time their teeth deteriorated to that point, they would be rotten and falling out. Without proper dental care, teeth decay fairly rapidly and if any of the enamel was degraded to the point where the teeth are broken, decay occurs even faster as the bugs in your mouth have easy access to your roots and your teeth would begin to fall out.

As far as "pain from biting," there is very little additional force that can be brought about regardless of pain or conscious thought. The TMJ (temporamandibular joint - the hinge joint where your jaw attaches to your head) can only exert a limited force, which declines fairly rapidly as you age. So a zombie over, say, 50, is going to have much less biting force than a zombie of like 20-25 years. The only additional force that could be mustered if pain was not a factor would be from the teeth fracturing. Under normal circumstances, you will not bite hard enough to break your teeth, there is a reflex mechanism which prevents it under normal circumstances. On the other hand, if a zombie exerted that much force, they would likely break their teeth, which would go back to the initial point that once their teeth were broken, they would very rapidly decay.

Sorry if I'm getting off-track, we had some lectures about the TMJ this past week and so it's on my mind.

Edit: Well, Erik more or less said it while I was posting.

[mr.trooper]

Id just like to point out that you can break the skin underneath a fabric without actually "biting" through it, or damaging it in any way.

I just ran my knee into the corner of my desk while wearing some pretty heavy blue jeans. The Jeans are fine, but by knee has a cut in it.

Blunt force trauma FTW.

[Erik]

Id just like to point out that you can break the skin underneath a fabric without actually "biting" through it, or damaging it in any way.

I just ran my knee into the corner of my desk while wearing some pretty heavy blue jeans. The Jeans are fine, but by knee has a cut in it.

Blunt force trauma FTW.

What you say is true, but you wouldn't have any zombie saliva in that wound, as it could not get through the barrier that is the leather, even if there was an injury under the leather.

-Erik

[TardArm]

Try it with broken jagged teeth and no pain to stop you from biting.

exactly what came to my mind, what if the teeth are broken into points and such...

[gart43]

I know teeth are able to break into points but what are teh chances that they would do this? For things to break they need to bite hard things, zombies eat human flesh more often than hard things, and every romero film has taught me that flesh is soft, so would their teeth break like that or.....

[Tetra Grammaton Cleric]

I know Mrdbeau has some dentistry behind him so I'm not gonna refute any of his science. Rather, I'll add this...

Being involved in the "riots and civil violence" that seems to proceed any outbreak in any movie means punches/hits/trauma to the facials potentially causing dental jagged pointyness;

Trying to Gnaw on people after infection has set in is going to attract more punches/hits/trauma to the facials from the gnawee potentially causing dental jagged pointyness;

Gnawing on people (bones/hard items in clothing or pockets) after infection has set in will also potentially cause more dental jagged pointyness.

Thus by extension it can be argued that a successful zombie (one still shambling/running/raging) in a heavily populated area after three days of an outbreak could have broken, jagged pointy teeth.

Still shouldn't be a match for a reinforced cowhide leather biker jacket with inserts though.


-

[mrdbeau]

Those are some good points I didn't really think about TGC.

I guess I've just always thought of a Zed outbreak in a more "controlled fashion," meaning that I'm not sure how many "riots" or how much "fighting back" people will be doing. Think opening of new Dawn of the Dead.

I don't think most people are going to accept that zombies are running around, even if they heard it on TV. It'd be like me believing aliens had landed on Earth if I heard it on Fox or CNN; I'd just have a tough time believing it.

But you could definitely be right.

I just want to bring up a few more dental things with regards to your main point:

1) If someone is getting punched in the face or hit in the face with a blunt object or other trauma is occuring, from what I have seen (again, only been at dental school for almost a semester, so I haven't seen a lot), most often a person will lose an entire tooth and the teeth rarely fragment with trauma.
2) People are much more likely to lose their anterior teeth when trauma occurs. These are the front incisors (first 2 teeth on each side), the canines (big pointy ones), and then the premolars will sometimes be lost but it's a little harder to knock those out (those are the two teeth between canines and molars). This is due to the roots of the teeth. Anterior teeth almost always have just a single root, which does not give them nearly as much support in the jaw as the molars, which typically have 3 or 4 roots.
3) The anterior teeth (incisors and canines) are the primary teeth that function in biting and rending food. If those were lost due to trauma or something else, it would be very difficult to effectively bite and tear your food (or for a zombie, flesh), even if you still had your premolars and molars, as they function primarily in chewing and breaking up food.
4) Due to the structure of the canines (they're already pointy among other reasons), I think it would be fairly difficult, if not impossible, to fracture them without altogether knocking them out. About the only teeth that I see getting fractured and becoming jaggedy and such are the front two teeth on each side in the top. The bottom incisors are so small that I'm not sure they could really get jagged and broken, either.

So, all in all, I can see where it could happen, but I'm still somewhat skeptical. I think in a scenario like you describe, we'd either see people altogether losing different teeth or maybe just have one or two teeth that are kind of broken with sharp edges.

[Erik]

Again, I'd rather go out equipped with leather than a t-shirt.

-Erik

[KayGee]

Human teeth > stab proof leather gloves

[gart43]

Ok im not sure I can add anymore to this discussion since its already drawn to the point where most everyone agrees that leather is the best choice for armor. But i'll try, yes your right zombies COULD get jagged pointy teeth, but as was said previously if they've come to that point in their lives they would more likely have NO teeth than pointy/jagged teeth. Just my .2 don't take it seriously please :

[L1Z4RD]

Wouldn't the gums rot quickly and cause all the teeth to fall out?

[mrdbeau]

Human teeth > stab proof leather gloves

They don't show the gloves in that video, but I highly doubt the person broke through the leather itself. More likely her skin was just lacerated in spite of the gloves.

Now, I don't know what "stab-proof leather gloves" are exactly, but I almost can guarantee you that if I stabbed someone in the hand with a quality knife, even if they had "stab-proof leather gloves" on, they would still get a very nice little cut on their hand. It might not be nearly as bad as it would be if the gloves were not on, but I am sure the wearer would still get injured, possibly even to the point of needing stitches.

[mpi]

properly made chain maile does not weigh a ton. I've worn it quite extensively and you can do calisthenics and even swim in it. i have a full set of 17th century cuirassiers armor and burgonet helm and i have spent all day wearing it while running around in the heat and sun.

that said, i would not wear most of it in a zpaw. there are threats that don't involve teeth. otoh i would be wearing my vest and plate carrier and helmet with face shield and polymer riot armor on my arms and legs. i might even wear the arms and leg harness from my plate armor. but that's a big maybe.

the armor approach is only really useful in a static defense scenario, imho. mobility on foot is gonna mean a very abbreviated gear and weapon loadout


and that's before you even think about armor.

[TardArm]

aluminum chain mail does seem like a very reasonable alternative to human teeth.

[mr.trooper]

aluminum maile wouldn't be too bad.

Id rather have a NICE biker jacket though.

i saw one a while back that had overlapping titanium plates sewn under the leather to cover the spine and the solar plexus. I think its was about $750 though.