Have ? about equipment for handgun training

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SharkChild
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Have ? about equipment for handgun training

Post by SharkChild » Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:42 am

I should be getting a job in the near future. And instead of buying stupid shit I don't need I want to save up and get my chl and some training.
I was just checking a couple of I guess tactical schools. (not necessary all tactical schools but places that teach it).

I have a G19 and some places say prefer a full size because of sight radius. Do I need a full size? will it affect my shooting that much? What kind of holster would I need? Such as a IWB or OWB for training?

I from what I remember if I have the gun on my left side then my mags would be on my right? right. Is there a specific belt that I would need? I know some would use gun leather belt and some use a belt like this. http://www.shoebuy.com/511-tactical-ope ... one-_-none" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which one is I guess is better and when is one better to use than another?
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Re: Have ? about equipment for handgun training

Post by Lex1785 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:54 am

Hey Shark,

One of the great things about shooting is that there are a lot of "expert" opinions but when it comes right down to it. Carrying equipping your weapon is totally on whats comfortable to you. Look at what you think is comfortable for you.

If you have a local equipment dealer go try things out. Ask them if you can put on the belt and holster. fit it to your needs. I've often seen people who have set up gear according to a specific "standard" or suggestion and when it came time to actually use / need it. It failed them because it was not comfortable or accessible.

If you already own a G19, Practice with it. If its comfortable to you, and you can use it properly then dont worry about anything else.


In the end its not what you use. Its how you use it.

The belt you linked is often referred to as a riggers belt, typically used as a "pants" belt to hold your britches up. Are you looking for a tactical Load out? I.E. Web Gear, Pistol Belt, Drop Leg holster and the such? or are you going low key and looking for a concealed carry type set up?

Semper Fi and Carry on

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Re: Have ? about equipment for handgun training

Post by DannusMaximus » Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:08 am

SharkChild wrote:I have a G19 and some places say prefer a full size because of sight radius. Do I need a full size? will it affect my shooting that much? What kind of holster would I need? Such as a IWB or OWB for training?
I can't imagine a place that would frown on you training with a Glock 19. I think those pistols are widely considered top notch gear, and outstanding self-defense pistols.

As far as holsters, I say gear up according to what you're training for. If you're training strictly to improve your self defense skills, you'll want to train with whatever your every day carry gear is. If you're training for IDPA competition or something else, you'll need other gear for that.

I've got a crummy IWB that I carry a G36 in as my everyday carry. When I go to the range by myself, I always shoot several strings using that pistol and that holster. When I go to a rifle class, I use my G21 with a SERPA paddle holster, and just wear a regular web belt with it. I also wear a Fobus paddle double magazine holder using the formula you pointed out (pistol on right hip, mags on left). The holster and mag carrier probably set me back about $60 to $70 total, and that type of setup seems fairly standard for most shooting schools.

I have noticed that I am substantially more accurate at speed with my G21 than my G36.

Doc pointed out in another thread that the important thing is to practice. It doesn't really matter if you have a $5 holster and are sticking extra mags in your pants pocket. The fact that you're practicing your skills is what's really important.
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Re: Have ? about equipment for handgun training

Post by Power Fail » Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:12 am

My suggestion on the firearm would be to shoot the gun you have. Well, more importantly, shoot the gun you'll be carrying. I wouldn't worry all that much about the sight radius issue. Yes, a bigger one can help, especially when it comes to shooting at longer distances, but the G19 should be more than enough, and plenty of people have made due with smaller sight radii than that.

Regarding holsters, I would still suggest using whatever you plan on using to actually carry it. Borrow or go to a store and ask to try both IWB and OWB holsters. You may well end up with one of each eventually, especially depending on the climate where you live and how you dress. Keep in mind that certain places may limit which kind you can use for a certain class (I know Suarez does not allow IWB holsters to be worn with body armor, but it's a safety issue), but most should hopefully have the "train with what you'll carry" philosophy.

You are correct, for semi autos, you want your reloads on your support (non-dominant) side.

As far as belts, I don't remember what they were, but I know Dave suggested some real good ones. Many people like the Wilderness Instructor type belts. Keep in mind, especially with OWB holsters, you need to make sure that the holster and belt will fit each other (i.e. - don't buy a holster for 2.5" wide belts and a 2.75" belt and expect to wear them together). I personally have been liking the Blackhawk pistol belt. Yeah, I know, a lot of people hate Blackhawk, but it works for me. I'll tell you right now, the little belt tab/keeper thing already managed to break off, but the actual belt itself is holding up quite well (been wearing it for several months), it doesn't scream "That guy's wearing a gun," and it was 15 freakin' dollars. Also, I can wear it with more formal clothing and it doesn't look ridiculous.

Basically what you're looking for is a belt that's good, stiff, and will keep your gun in place. Crappy Walmart belts will NOT be able to withstand the rigors of carrying a gun and extra mags every day. I tried it, and it snapped a month or 2 into it, while I was wearing it. Thankfully, the top and bottom thread held together, so my equipment didn't fall to the ground, but it was really close to that happening. As far as leather vs. the webbing type belts, I don't know if there's one that's far and away better. I've always looked at it as personal preference.

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Re: Have ? about equipment for handgun training

Post by Big B » Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:39 pm

SharkChild wrote:I should be getting a job in the near future. And instead of buying stupid shit I don't need I want to save up and get my chl and some training.
I was just checking a couple of I guess tactical schools. (not necessary all tactical schools but places that teach it).

I have a G19 and some places say prefer a full size because of sight radius. Do I need a full size? will it affect my shooting that much? What kind of holster would I need? Such as a IWB or OWB for training?

I from what I remember if I have the gun on my left side then my mags would be on my right? right. Is there a specific belt that I would need? I know some would use gun leather belt and some use a belt like this. http://www.shoebuy.com/511-tactical-ope ... one-_-none" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which one is I guess is better and when is one better to use than another?
Your Glock 19 should be fine, especially if you are doing training related to concealed carry. If a G19 is what you will be carrying it is what you need to be training with. It sounds to me like you should be looking for classes geared towards carrying a weapon for self defense and concealed carry. If an instructor teaching a concealed carry class tells you you need to carry something bigger than a G19 don't take their class. I work with guys that carry & shoot a G23, same size as the G19, as their LEO duty weapon. Carry what you train with, train with what you carry.

Go try out a bunch of holsters, but buy a good quality one. It kills me when people drop big money on a new gun, concealed carry license, and a class or two only to buy a cheep holster that will fall apart on them. Also realize you may need to change up you wardrobe depending on what kind of holster/where you carry your firearm. If you get an IWB you may need slightly larger pants. OWB you may need longer or baggier shirts. If you are not physically comfortable when carrying or self consious about your weapon showing your will be less likely to carry, which is not good.

It's already been said, but get a good quality belt. Bianchi makes some quality leather & nylon belts made for carrying a firearm. I have one of those 5.11 belts you linked I got for free and it seems to be pretty good. Honestly when I'm carrying off duty I usually use a Carhart belt I've had for years. It's very tough and it's held up well from carrying holster almost every day.
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Re: Have ? about equipment for handgun training

Post by Haji » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:15 pm

What are you training for? Are you looking for a class that improves your shooting and gun handling skills, or are you after something to learn concealed carry? The equipment choices are a little different for each, but not all that much. There's enough cross over to use the same for both.

Step one: no matter whether its nylon or leather, use a stiff belt that was designed to hold up a holster. Step two: for a training holster, use one that won't collapse when the gun is drawn. IWB holsters are a little harder to draw from, so using one in training may be going a bridge too far if you don't have a lot of experience with one. A good belt slide from a known company (Safariland, Blade Tech, Comp Tac, and like that) is a good carry rig for cooler days and an easy rig to use for competition, carry, and training. Step three: get a solid magazine carrier. Don't go top end on your holster and cheap out on your support gear. You don't have to spend a ton, just don't buy crap and expect it to last. It won't.

Unless you have size XXXL hands, the 19 will be fine. You'll only gain a half inch of sight radius with a 17 (as well as a half inch of grip). That's not going to make as much of a difference as a thinner front sight will. You can run a box stock 19 in any class you want to attend or any match you want to shoot, and it'll do just fine.

You're already pointed in the right direction. Just be sure you know what you're getting into with any prospective training company you're thinking about giving your hard earned money to.
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Re: Have ? about equipment for handgun training

Post by Jeriah » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:26 pm

SharkChild wrote:I should be getting a job in the near future. And instead of buying stupid shit I don't need I want to save up and get my chl and some training.
I was just checking a couple of I guess tactical schools. (not necessary all tactical schools but places that teach it).

I have a G19 and some places say prefer a full size because of sight radius. Do I need a full size? will it affect my shooting that much? What kind of holster would I need? Such as a IWB or OWB for training?

I from what I remember if I have the gun on my left side then my mags would be on my right? right. Is there a specific belt that I would need? I know some would use gun leather belt and some use a belt like this. http://www.shoebuy.com/511-tactical-ope ... one-_-none" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which one is I guess is better and when is one better to use than another?
First, pick what you want to learn. Tactics for using your CCW? Pistol fighting tactics for LEO's? Use of the pistol as a secondary weapon for military/etc. for whom the rifle is primary? These will be different, will teach slightly different things, and require different gear. Since you mentioned getting your CHL, that's what I'll assume you're going for.

So, when looking at these schools, look for places that emphasize training for CHL holders. Odds are the places that encourage a full-size pistol are looking at training cops or military personnel who carry openly, so concealment is a non-issue and full-size would be ideal. These are probably not the right schools for you. Look for a school that teaches from a CHL perspective, and see what THEY recommend.

Since the G19 is the pistol you have, any school that discourages them is the wrong school for you. Once you find a school that likes the G19 and is teaching from a CHL perspective, see if the instructor or school has a belt and holster combo that they like. I'd go with their recommendations since they know that it works with what they teach.
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Re: Have ? about equipment for handgun training

Post by Trebor » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:29 pm

The G 19 is fine. I bet they consider that "full size" anyway. There probably refering to the smaller Glocks and little pistols like the KAHR, etc.

Btw, you gonna wind up in Michigan after all?
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Re: Have ? about equipment for handgun training

Post by SharkChild » Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:35 pm

From my understanding to get my CHL in Texas I just take a course. There are no drawing from the holster just be in class and at the end of class shoot the targets. So I don't need a belt there.
Haji wrote:What are you training for? Are you looking for a class that improves your shooting and gun handling skills, or are you after something to learn concealed carry?
I want to improve my shooting. Such as running drills for lack of a better word.
Jeriah First, pick what you want to learn. Tactics for using your CCW? Pistol fighting tactics for LEO's?
That is a good question that I did not think of. I want to learn both. The CCW would be first then and then some pistol fighting tactics would be next.
Trebor wrote:Btw, you gonna wind up in Michigan after all?
I don't know yet I should be putting in my application sometime in the near future. I also need to see what medicare plans are up there. Yes I said it Medicare. haha.


So I know what I am looking for now then. I will be looking into holsters and belts. Also pouch mags because they can be used in both.

Haji what does a beltslide have over something like a Minotaur MTAC Holster? I will need a minimum of 2 holsters for sure? one iwb and owb. Now I need to figure out the purpose. The IWB will be used when I conceal carry and the other one would be used for pistol training.
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Re: Have ? about equipment for handgun training

Post by Matt E. » Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:27 pm

"First, pick what you want to learn. Tactics for using your CCW? Pistol fighting tactics for LEO's? Use of the pistol as a secondary weapon for military/etc. for whom the rifle is primary? These will be different, will teach slightly different things, and require different gear. Since you mentioned getting your CHL, that's what I'll assume you're going for."


Don't let thes types of things trip you up. If you intend to carry a pistol, for ANY reason, you need to learn everthing you can within the limits of your capability. IE, basic marksmansip, manipulations and the like. Weather you are the most high speed warrior commando the world has ever seen, or just Joe Blow going to the store, although your mission is differnt, the requierment for the pistol is the same. Hope that makes sense.

The 19 is more then fine. Many (if not all) the best combat pistol instructors the world has ever seen either recomend it, or have one, or both.(this is not something you can say about every kind of pistol) Now, you may find you shoot other guns better, but that is more about you then about the gun, if you know what I mean.
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Re: Have ? about equipment for handgun training

Post by Haji » Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:23 am

What you'll generally find is that eventually you end up with boxes of holsters (most people have just one box. I have two and am in need of a third on account of having four carry handguns). I wouldn't say you have to have an IWB and and OWB, but it makes things easier in terms of not having to change how you dress as much. My go-to-work holster is a Safariland 529. Its so comfortable I don't bother taking it off until I go to bed. It has the easy on/easy off feature that paddles are supposed to have but its a much more stable and concealable platform.

In the summer, though, I do occasionally have need of deep concealment while wearing shorts and t-shirts. For that, I use a Hold Fast from Peters Custom Holsters.

Training and competition use other holsters still. Its about matching the equipment to the job to get the most out of what I'm doing. In terms of training, the most important part of that is learning the manipulation of the weapon. Having to fight a deep cover holster might not be the best course of action. You'll find that once you have learned the necessary skills to run the gun, carrying it becomes easier and clearer.

Another thing you'll find is that concealment doesn't mean as much as it seemed to. Basically, if they can't see the actual gun, most people won't notice how much it prints. Sad but true.
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Re: Have ? about equipment for handgun training

Post by Jeriah » Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:33 pm

Matt E. wrote:"First, pick what you want to learn. Tactics for using your CCW? Pistol fighting tactics for LEO's? Use of the pistol as a secondary weapon for military/etc. for whom the rifle is primary? These will be different, will teach slightly different things, and require different gear. Since you mentioned getting your CHL, that's what I'll assume you're going for."


Don't let thes types of things trip you up. If you intend to carry a pistol, for ANY reason, you need to learn everthing you can within the limits of your capability. IE, basic marksmansip, manipulations and the like. Weather you are the most high speed warrior commando the world has ever seen, or just Joe Blow going to the store, although your mission is differnt, the requierment for the pistol is the same. Hope that makes sense.
Sure, I'm just saying that if ones interest is in going into the military, you don't need to know US civilian legalities for lethal force, and if you're only interested in CCW situations, you don't need to know how to transition from a long gun to a sidearm.

Obvioulsy it doesn't hurt to know these things, so if you end up training for some things you don't use, there's no harm in that, as long as you DO get the stuff that's most relevant to your situation.
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Re: Have ? about equipment for handgun training

Post by painiac » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:33 am

SharkChild wrote:I will need a minimum of 2 holsters for sure? one iwb and owb. Now I need to figure out the purpose. The IWB will be used when I conceal carry and the other one would be used for pistol training.
It all comes down to comfort and personal preference. Personally, *I* find IWB and paddle holsters to be extremely uncomfortable. But that doesn't mean I'd recommend you not try them for yourself.

I wear a SERPA holster on a Spec-Ops "Better BDU Belt", and I've been extremely happy with that setup. The belt is stiff enough that the gun doesn't droop, and it's pretty durable. I throw a loose button-up shirt over it, and it's concealed. I never get second looks for it, because the general public is fucking clueless. People are in their own little world, buzzing around in condition white, and they're really not paying much attention to you. Sadly, it is so far off normal people's radar that a non-policeman would be carrying a gun in their presence that it does not even occur to them to look for one.

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Re: Have ? about equipment for handgun training

Post by oldsoldier » Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:42 pm

Haji wrote:SNIP

Another thing you'll find is that concealment doesn't mean as much as it seemed to. Basically, if they can't see the actual gun, most people won't notice how much it prints. Sad but true.
This is gospel, right here. My buddy just got his LTC in MA, about a month ago. He bought specially designed clothing for carrying ( he has a S&W M&P 9, in a IWB Comptac). He was so concerned about printing. I told him that 99% of people (we live in MA, where guns kill people, but people dont...) have no idea-you could wear almost anything over it, and no one would know. I normally wear a T shirt, and either a polo shirt, or a button down shirt, over that-concealed or not. The clothing is a little big, and may, or may not, print. I have carried this way for a couple years now, and never once was questioned. You may have to change your wardrobe slightly, as has been stated, but dont get wrapped up on printing. The only other people who may even notice are other people carrying, or, possibly, LEOs. The majority of the populace are simply too wrapped in their own world to look.
That being said...I buy most of my button downs from the salvation army. Cheap, already worn in, and, usually, in a good state. I make some minor mods, and am done. One last note on clothing-you want it to COMPLETELY disappear, wear loud Hawaiian shirts. I do that a lot. I look like a tourist, even in my home town :). The are of concealment is hiding in plain sight :D
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