MOA Explained

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MOA Explained

Postby jeffrey » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:13 pm

MOA Explained

Here is a guide to understanding minutes of angle (MOA), what is truly meant when discussing accuracy in the context of MOA, and some other useful bits such as mils and estimating range. I see a lot of people throwing around the term MOA. Many times people don't understand what they are talking about and if they do, they do not understand where the term comes from.

This post is going to be similar to a PDF document I read years ago. Some of you may notice the similarity. For those that found such documents confusing, hopefully a second opinion on this topic will provide clarity.

So, what the heck are mils? What is this MOA thingy? Why is this useful information for marksmen?

Mils
The term mil is a shortened term for milliradian. This is a unit of measure for a segment of a circle. You may remember from trigonometry that a circle has 360 degrees. Milliradians are a similar measurement but much more precise. A circle, no matter how big, consists of 6,283.2 milliradians. A mil is a unit of angular measure just like a degree. It subtends an arc of the circle.

If you start with a point in the center of a circle and extend two lines to the edge of the circle, a segment or arc of the circle is created inside of the angle formed by the two lines. The length of the arc is what we are measuring whether we use degrees, mils, or minutes. You may have seen an optic reticle that has "mil dots" on it like this one:
Image
Those little dots on the crosshairs are called mil dots for good reasons that we will soon understand. They are used to estimate the distance to a target which is vertically used to calculate hold over, and used horizontally to adjust for windage or movement.

MOA
MOA or minutes of angle are similar to degrees or mils. Minutes in this context has nothing to do with time. It is another way to measure a piece or arc of a circle. It is even more precise than degrees or mils. There are 21,600 minutes in a circle. MOA is also used to discuss shot groupings although generally using the 1 inch at 100yards equals 1 MOA formula. Many people never make it beyond this definition and for good reason. It is a very close explanation and can be considered a practical measurement. Many refer to this rule of thumb as the "shooter's MOA". I like to call it fuzzy MOA and while I use it myself, many people learn this tidbit of info and then act as if they have the golden ticket. It is however, not exactly correct no matter how practical it is.

Radians and Mils in a Circle
Let's back up for a second. Some more explanation is in order to help us piece all of this together. Let's consider something called a radian. It is a unit of measure just like degrees, mils, and MOA. It is the most imprecise of all of these. If you are following this so far, that means a radian is larger than a degree thus a bigger arc or segment of the circle is inside an angle of 1 radian. If you know anything about the metric system and prefixes, you probably guessed that a radian is 1000 milliradians.

The technical definition of a radian is "the angle that subtends an arc equal in length to the radius of a circle". A picture will explain this wordy definition:
Image
You can see the radius and the arc are both labeled "1" and are equal in length. The angle that is required to form an arc the same length as the radius is 1 radian of measure. The angle is called a radian angle or just radian and the arc is called a radian arc. That picture should also show why there are the same number of radians in every circle. If the radius is bigger or smaller, so is a radian arc of that circle since both are equal in length.

So, how many radians are in a circle? Well, there are the same amount of radian angles or radians as there are radian arcs. How can we tell how many radian arcs there are? Easy, just find the circumference of the circle and divide that by the radius of the circle. It's like pieces of a pie and I know you folks like pie.

Instead of talking about pie, lets talk about pi (π) or 3.14159. The circumference of a circle is measured with this formula: C=2πr

A minute ago I stated that the number of radians always equals the number of radian arcs. This allows us to take the circumference and divide it by the radius length to find how many radians are in the circle. Since we know π = 3.14159 and every circle has the same number of radians, we can simply do 2πr/r = 2π = 2*3.14159. This equals 6.2832 radians or 6,283.2 milliradians.

Minutes in a Circle
The number of minutes in a circle is more of a loose definition. There are 60 minutes or minutes of angle in 1 degree of a circle. Since we all know there are 360 degrees in a complete circle, then there are 360*60 or 21,600 minutes of angle in every circle.

Minutes per Milliradian
You might wonder how many minutes are in 1 mil. Easy! Just take the number of minutes in a circle divided by the number of mils.

21,600/6,283.2 = 3.438 minutes per mil.

Degrees per Milliradian
Since we have done all the work this is another easy one. Take the number of degrees in a circle and divide by the number of mils.

360/6,283.2 = 0.0573 degrees per mil.

Inches per Mil at 100 yards
Building on what we have done so far, lets calculate something more practical for marksmen and find out how many inches are in a mil at 100 yards. We know that the radius of a circle is equal to a radian of arc. Therefore a mil of arc is equal to 1/1000th of radius, right? So taking 100 yards or 3600 inches (100y = 300ft = 3600in) if we find 1/1000th of 100 yards, that gives us 1 mil of 100 yards. To find this in inches we take 3600 inches divided by 1000 milliradians.

3600/1000 = 3.6 inches per mil at 100 yards.

Imagine the line drawn through your scope to the target is the radius of your circle. The height of 1 mil in your scope is going to be 3.6 inches if your target is 100 yards away.

Inches per Minute at 100 yards
We are approaching the reason why fuzzy MOA or the definition of MOA in general can be tossed around as 1" at 100 yards. Lets find out why.

Remember before we found that there are 3.6 inches per mil. Also, we know that there are 3.438 minutes per mil. If we divide these numbers we can find the value of inches per minute.

3.6/3.438 = 1.047 inches per minute at 100 yards.

Ahh, so the exact definition of MOA is revealed. 1.047 inches at 100 yards. That extra 0.047 inches is tossed out the window when we discuss MOA in most contexts. For practical reasons, it is not enough to make a significant difference.

Range Estimation using Mil Dots
More work can be done to derive the actual math behind range estimation with mil dots. While useful knowledge, that is beyond the scope of this post (I am tired of typing). For now I will leave you with these handy formulas that you can use to estimate range if you know the size of your target and are looking through your glass that has a mil dot reticle:

(height of target in yards / mils) * 1000 = distance to target in yards
(height of target in inches / mils) * 27.78 = distance to target in yards
(height of target in inches / moa) * 100 = distance to target in yards

Summary
At this point, either you skipped this thread, your head is hurting, or you've got a light bulb floating above it. As I mentioned before, I am as guilty of using fuzzy MOA as anyone when talking about accuracy or group size. I hope this sheds some light on the real ins and outs of MOA.
Last edited by jeffrey on Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:59 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: MOA for Dummies

Postby jeffrey » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:18 pm

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Re: MOA for Dummies

Postby Mr. E. Monkey » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:30 pm

My brain hurts a little, but that's good information. I think I'm going to have to bookmark this and read it again later.
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Re: MOA for Dummies

Postby Brendan Sullivan » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:31 pm

Mils are the units of angular measure we used in the artillery, and I think they're on military compasses and such. Mil-dot reticles are a neat idea, but I will personally not be doing the sort of shooting (read: distance, wind, quickly moving target) that requires that much hold-off. They're great for snipers I'm sure, and long-range hunters who want a military-style or uncluttered reticle.

I was just explaining to a buddy today that MOA isn't exactly 1" at 100 yards, but it was close enough to not have to add up the fractions. Now I know exactly how much it is!
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Re: MOA for Dummies

Postby Dave_M » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:02 am

I've seen a clock that was in radians instead of hours. Pretty funny

Wanna confuse someone, tell them the time is, "3π/2" instead of 6pm :lol:
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Re: MOA for Dummies

Postby ista_hota » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:18 am

DavePAL84 wrote:I've seen a clock that was in radians instead of hours. Pretty funny

Wanna confuse someone, tell them the time is, "3π/2" instead of 6pm :lol:


LOL!

Want.
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Re: MOA for Dummies

Postby ErgoDelta » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:25 am

DavePAL84 wrote:I've seen a clock that was in radians instead of hours. Pretty funny

Wanna confuse someone, tell them the time is, "3π/2" instead of 6pm :lol:


Yep, gets even worse if you can spit out equivalent angels and really through someone off. :twisted:
π, 3π, 5π, 8π/2.... etc. etc.
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Re: MOA for Dummies

Postby dkhoward » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:51 am

Excellent!!!! THis is perhaps one of the most useful posts I have found yet on ZS. Thanks!

Do you mind if I borrow your work to teach some classes locally?

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Re: MOA for Dummies

Postby Leethal » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:47 am

Awesome post.

DavePAL84 wrote:I've seen a clock that was in radians instead of hours. Pretty funny

Wanna confuse someone, tell them the time is, "3π/2" instead of 6pm :lol:


Now I have to find one.
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Re: MOA for Dummies

Postby phil_in_cs » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:09 am

Brendan Sullivan wrote:Mils are the units of angular measure we used in the artillery, and I think they're on military compasses and such. Mil-dot reticles are a neat idea, but I will personally not be doing the sort of shooting (read: distance, wind, quickly moving target) that requires that much hold-off. They're great for snipers I'm sure, and long-range hunters who want a military-style or uncluttered reticle.


"Distance" in this is a relative term - relative to not only how far you expect to shoot, but what sort of rifle and ammo you are using. With my AR and a 200 yard zero, I have little hold over to shoot at 300 yards; aim upper chest / neck to hit mid chest. At 600 yards, though, I have 100 inches of drop, and that's too much to estimate without some sort of hold over helper.

Windage in my area can be a big deal in spring and fall; it is often 20+mph. Again, at 300 yards that's 'side of the chest' for an aiming point, but beyond that you have to hold off the side of your target, and seeing how far off 12" or 15" is can be hard to do without the mil-dot helpers.

I can't see myself shooting at what I consider long range, but at 600 yards and in a rifleman should be able to hit what they can see.

Jeffery; that's a very good presentation of some difficult material. I've seen and heard this presented so that I am thinking "wtf is this guy talking about" even though I already know about MOA and Mil-dots....

Good job, and thank you.
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Re: MOA for Dummies

Postby jeffrey » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:56 pm

dkhoward wrote:Excellent!!!! THis is perhaps one of the most useful posts I have found yet on ZS. Thanks!

Do you mind if I borrow your work to teach some classes locally?

DKH


You are welcome to do with it as you please. I posted this in the spirit of sharing what I have learned so I am happy to know that it may benefit others.
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Re: MOA Explained

Postby S.R. Stryker » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:03 pm

damn my brain hurts : /
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Re: MOA for Dummies

Postby nimdabew » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:22 pm

Leethal wrote:Awesome post.

DavePAL84 wrote:I've seen a clock that was in radians instead of hours. Pretty funny

Wanna confuse someone, tell them the time is, "3π/2" instead of 6pm :lol:


Now I have to find one.


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Re: MOA for Dummies

Postby Molon Labe » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:30 pm

nimdabew wrote:
Leethal wrote:Awesome post.

DavePAL84 wrote:I've seen a clock that was in radians instead of hours. Pretty funny

Wanna confuse someone, tell them the time is, "3π/2" instead of 6pm :lol:


Now I have to find one.


http://vision-signs-graphics-inc2.amazo ... ce=froogle

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Re: MOA for Dummies

Postby nimdabew » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:31 pm

Molon Labe wrote:
nimdabew wrote:
Leethal wrote:Awesome post.

DavePAL84 wrote:I've seen a clock that was in radians instead of hours. Pretty funny

Wanna confuse someone, tell them the time is, "3π/2" instead of 6pm :lol:


Now I have to find one.


http://vision-signs-graphics-inc2.amazo ... ce=froogle

Come this paycheck, that bastard is on order.


I don't like thinking that much when it comes to time so I will leave you to the uber math clock ok? That was the cheapest one I could find in a 1 minute google search BTW.
Thanks Anianna!
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12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:I say when Wee Drop visits the US, we make her ride a goat. You know, like those little monkey cowboys they have at some rodeos. :lol:
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Re: MOA Explained

Postby Molon Labe » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:34 pm

Gonna look for it in wrist watch form. 8)

[edit] I suck at this internet shit. Couldn't find one.[/edit]
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Re: MOA Explained

Postby Vladimir » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:07 am

The information is great .Correct. Informative . But not of much use for most people . Explaining this is like telling folks in Kentucky that Versailles is not prononced Ver-sales . And folks here in St Louis that Gravois is actualy supposed to be prononce Grav-wa and not Grav-oys . :mrgreen: . So I think minute of angle will still stand at 1' at 100 even though your effort is great . :D
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Re: MOA Explained

Postby Hoppy » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:17 am

Vladimir wrote:The information is great .Correct. Informative . But not of much use for most people . Explaining this is like telling folks in Kentucky that Versailles is not prononced Ver-sales . And folks here in St Louis that Gravois is actualy supposed to be prononce Grav-wa and not Grav-oys . :mrgreen: . So I think minute of angle will still stand at 1' at 100 even though your effort is great . :D



and a magazine is the same as a clip.... arrogance is no excuse for ignorance
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Re: MOA Explained

Postby Vladimir » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:31 am

Hoppy wrote:
Vladimir wrote:The information is great .Correct. Informative . But not of much use for most people . Explaining this is like telling folks in Kentucky that Versailles is not prononced Ver-sales . And folks here in St Louis that Gravois is actualy supposed to be prononce Grav-wa and not Grav-oys . :mrgreen: . So I think minute of angle will still stand at 1' at 100 even though your effort is great . :D



And a magazine is the same as a clip.... arrogance is no excuse for ignorance
And denying and calling everyone on every slip is showing arrogance and that your just an asshole . Not everyone is so correct but you know what they mean and out of decency you continue helping them with their issue . A mag is not a clip and a rifle not a gun . but a snooty snob is a snooty snob. And folks in kentucky will continue to call the town of Versailles , ver-sales. You can get yourself a soap box and start yelling at the top of your lungs otherwise ,but people there will just think your stupid ,allthough your correct. Here I will do this one just for you Hoppy .....romanian dragunov ...romanian dragunov ....romanian dragunov... my m16 is a nice gun . gotta get a cilp for my colt 45 . I gotta pull the charging handle on my mosin nagant . :lol: I was in Arkansas recently on a buisness deal and was asked if I wanted a coke ...then was followed by the question of what kind ...a pepsi or a sprite ...LOL .I am merly stating the facts of the human condition .Not being a stiff collared snooty, better than thou jerk .
Last edited by Vladimir on Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy." And the Lord did grin and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats
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Re: MOA Explained

Postby AmirMortal » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:37 am

Great post! Made perfect sense.

FAKE EDIT: Don't get this awesome thread locked just 'cause you have something to say, personally, about another person here Vlad. This is a great post, and doesn't need that. Start your own thread if you want to pick a fight.
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Re: MOA Explained

Postby Hoppy » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:40 am

Vladimir wrote:
And a magazine is the same as a clip....


doesnt mater to me.i can walk into a gunshop and have a conversation with out people thinking im a tool bag.


hey, we each have our priorities. to me its live, learn and adapt to you its just live, ignore and exist.
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Re: MOA Explained

Postby Vladimir » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:50 am

AmirMortal wrote:Great post! Made perfect sense.

FAKE EDIT: Don't get this awesome thread locked just 'cause you have something to say, personally, about another person here Vlad. This is a great post, and doesn't need that. Start your own thread if you want to pick a fight.
The minute of angle as explained is correct. I said that .And I praised the poster for the information . But I was trying to say its a Colloquialism that will not change . Try calling a southerner ignorant or stupid for saying Y'all instead of you all .Its correct but untasteful to correct them when you certainly know what they are saying . Hoppy saying arrogant or ignorant was his deal . Now you want to villify me for explaining what I ment . Now you react to me with the very same rudness . nice ..Thanks ..The minute of angle is wrong but almost a kind of Colloquialism we understand when people post here or even talk at a shooting match .And I do match shoot and do know how Minute of angle works in real and feild terms .
And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy." And the Lord did grin and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats
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Re: MOA Explained

Postby Vladimir » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:59 am

Hoppy wrote:
Vladimir wrote:
And a magazine is the same as a clip....


doesnt mater to me.i can walk into a gunshop and have a conversation with out people thinking im a tool bag.


hey, we each have our priorities. to me its live, learn and adapt to you its just live, ignore and exist.

I appoligise to you . But its simply not nice to pick on every single thing when we well know the intent . Thats my point .Its not arrogant or ignorant or an excuse for either . If I took this information to the range .People will show interst .but it wont change the fact that they will still use the 1' equals 1MOA at 100 yards . Folks here will still call gravois , grav oys instead of grav wa . You are the one that stated I am arrogant or maybe ignorant . No ,I am maybe more forgiving to others little mistakes .
And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy." And the Lord did grin and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats
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Re: MOA Explained

Postby AmirMortal » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:00 am

I'm from the south, I say y'all, and start your own thread.
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