Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by Chaos454 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:20 am

The last thing I heard about this was someone acting in a role similar to a warlord. Getting protection money, goods, or services from people in exchange for protection from both his crew, and others. So I am going to go with that as a premise.

I think bugging in in that situation could be dangerous. Especially if people know you prep for whatever reason you chose to start prepping; to many reasons to list. Your resources would be a hot commodity. I have also found people in large groups tend to be braver than they normally would. If I could not get out with my family before it happened I would lay low. Pay attention to the crowd and their attitudes. Are they serious, or are they just pretending to make a political point.

Once the initial craziness has died down it's time to move out. You have to be vigilant in your observations of your surroundings. The time to move could be at 2 in the afternoon or 2 in the morning. I would be ready to move as soon as an opportunity arose. Going out guns blazing doesn't seem to fit the situation as the wife and kids are with me. Long arms also might be a hindrance as I have heard they have checkpoints and they are stopping people. I imagine a lot of the checkpoint guards know each other so a slung rifle might draw unwanted attention if they realized you weren't one of them. Blending in might not be too hard as a lot of them are wearing masks anyway. Since it is only a few blocks and the rest of the world is mostly intact I would leave most of my gear behind. The less you have on you to draw attention the better. So basically blend in and walk out. If I am stopped at a check point I would do my best just to talk my way out. If I couldn't, I would make sure their attention is so focused on my they would not even notice the wife and kids leaving the area. Again, this doesn't necessarily mean a gun fight. To many people and to many stray bullets flying around to take that chance. However a man acting like a non violent lunatic draws a lot of attention.

If my family were stuck in there without me it would be a different story. I don't mind going in unarmed to pass the check points because I know what is waiting for me in my home. I'd probably bring food for the guards as a distraction, and it might help if I am recognized trying to leave. Additionally I have significant training in martial arts. This doesn't make me a superhero, or invulnerable, but I think it improves my odds. Once at the house, follow plan A.

If neither of these work and my family is stuck inside. Well the details vary, but bottom line is I am getting my family out. I have enough like minded friends this might actually be the easier of the options. It is also the least favorable. I am not going into details because I don't want to violate any rules. Provided the chance though, I choose a peaceful resolution. I am sure everyone has heard this, but you win %100 of the fights you don't get into.

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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by woodsghost » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:34 am

Serious Question:

If an autonomous zone is declared, and the city does not contest it or even cedes the territory, would any crimes committed within the zone, while under control of Zone Rulers, fall under city, state, or federal jurisdictions? Would any actions normally considered "crimes" even be prosecutable?
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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by majorhavoc » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:30 am

woodsghost wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:34 am
Serious Question:

If an autonomous zone is declared, and the city does not contest it or even cedes the territory, would any crimes committed within the zone, while under control of Zone Rulers, fall under city, state, or federal jurisdictions? Would any actions normally considered "crimes" even be prosecutable?
No, not unless they named it the Capitol Hill Purge Zone. :clownshoes:

Serious answer. That area has been given temporary autonomy, not sovereignty. It is still subject to federal, state and local jurisdiction and all laws and ordinances still apply. Authorities exercising discretion in patrolling the area or even whether to tolerate minor infractions doesn't mean a crime isn't a crime. The cop who lets you off for jaywalking on your way to rob a bank can still arrest you for robbery.

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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by NT2C » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:08 am

majorhavoc wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:30 am
woodsghost wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:34 am
Serious Question:

If an autonomous zone is declared, and the city does not contest it or even cedes the territory, would any crimes committed within the zone, while under control of Zone Rulers, fall under city, state, or federal jurisdictions? Would any actions normally considered "crimes" even be prosecutable?
No, not unless they named it the Capitol Hill Purge Zone. :clownshoes:

Serious answer. That area has been given temporary autonomy, not sovereignty. It is still subject to federal, state and local jurisdiction and all laws and ordinances still apply. Authorities exercising discretion in patrolling the area or even whether to tolerate minor infractions doesn't mean a crime isn't a crime. The cop who lets you off for jaywalking on your way to rob a bank can still arrest you for robbery.
And that jaywalking charge will likely be added on.
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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by woodsghost » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:28 am

Thanks you two! I'm still wrapping my head around what all is going on.
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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by Halfapint » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:35 am

I can see no one has read any news stories from an outside non national news source. There are plenty of reports on medium, Facebook has hundreds of first hand citizen reports from people living inside, and local media has reported on this Farley decently.

Seattle times and the police both retracted their previous statements of armed guards and extortion. They were biased in rumors from outside the zone on “fringe” sites and forums.

I mean I now understand why people all over the country are freaking out, they have no clue.

Wife’s stepmom called us and was saying we have to bug out! We sent her pictures of when we were up there and she has no concept of what to think. Stores that are allowed to open (COVID19 protocols), are open, most have donated time or money to the community. Art projects are happening, food and medical facilities are helping homeless and people in need.

The whole thing has a block party feel (In fact this is one of the secondary closed off sites for Capitol Hill Block Party. So it really isn’t unusually to see stalls set up along these streets. People walking around have actually said they feel much safer now than prior. The city mayor and the police chief were at the east precinct yesterday and took off some of the plywood used to board it up. No damages has been done other then some spray paint over a few things. They met with community leaders and have talks of reopening the station soon.

I’d post articles but I’d encourage people to look for themselves for outside the main stream sources, as well, they have blatantly lied and made things up.
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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by Horatio_Tyllis » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:42 am

Chaos454 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:20 am
The last thing I heard about this was someone acting in a role similar to a warlord. Getting protection money, goods, or services from people in exchange for protection from both his crew, and others. So I am going to go with that as a premise.

I think bugging in in that situation could be dangerous. Especially if people know you prep for whatever reason you chose to start prepping; to many reasons to list. Your resources would be a hot commodity. I have also found people in large groups tend to be braver than they normally would. If I could not get out with my family before it happened I would lay low. Pay attention to the crowd and their attitudes. Are they serious, or are they just pretending to make a political point.
This is one of the reason i like to keep some preps hidden. I have cats, so i end up with lots of those 5 gallon kitty litter pails. There's a stockpile of kitty litter in the basement, a few of the ones at the bottom, in the back, have preps in them with a bit of kitty litter (clean of course) on top to make them look convincing. I also have a dryer on a base. Normally you'd have your detergents and soaps and stuff in there, I have some preps, and i just replaced one of the bolts holding it with a longer one so it's bolted shut. If someone is trying to dig into my stuff, i can just shrug and say it's been like that since i moved it. May not be a ton but i think those coming into to extort would check the pantry and the cupboards, they're not as likley to say, go digging through those boxes in the attic.
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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by Chaos454 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:30 pm

I like the idea of hidden preps. I have a peg board set up in the garage and use the space behind it to stash a few things. I have a few other places, but it would still hurt to loose my primary preps. In the end though it's just stuff. This isn't the apocalypse so I can get more stuff later. My primary concern is life. My families, and even the lives of the people coming to take my stuff; I don't think just stuff is a reason to take a life. Sorry, got a little sidetracked.

Here is a thought. Your attic is full of duct work. Run a fake piece of it from two existing pieces and put some long term non perishable preps in it.

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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:49 pm

Chaos454 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:30 pm
Here is a thought. Your attic is full of duct work. Run a fake piece of it from two existing pieces and put some long term non perishable preps in it.
Be aware of temps & changes in temps.

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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:52 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:49 pm
Chaos454 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:30 pm
Here is a thought. Your attic is full of duct work. Run a fake piece of it from two existing pieces and put some long term non perishable preps in it.
Be aware of temps & changes in temps.
I suppose if you're hiding things that are susceptible to rusting, putting them in something like a silicone treated bag might help.

It'd also be good to check up on the items from time to time and make a note of any changes.

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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by Chaos454 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:04 pm

Don't actually connect the pipes to the ac or cooler ducts. Just a fake piece with the appearance of a real one to help keep the moisture out. In Arizona, where I am at,the temps get well over 120 degrees, but in other locations if properly sealed i think it would work. Here though I have seen the heat do strange and wondrous to plastics, and even metal over time.

On a funny cache note I had a friend who liked to bury stuff in the desert. Random locations in the middle of no where. I told him he needed to gps them, but he said he would remember where they were. A year or so later I went with him to check on some and he couldn't find them. So you might not find gold in the Superstitions Mountains, but there is "treasure" out there.

So I have an addition to the original question. You are stuck in the zone, and the military have announced they are coming in. Now how would you proceed? Lock down, and wait or get out as soon as possible? There are probably other options, and I would like to hear what other think.

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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by RoneKiln » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:12 pm

I'm chiming in to back up what Halfapint has reported, and copying what I posted in the "civil war" thread.
I have 3 friends/acquaintances that live in that neighborhood. I have another dozen plus that have been in there several times the last few days. They all consistently say the only thing that's happened is it feels like a street fair has been set up. Despite what the media is portraying, there's no monitoring of who comes and goes. Nobody seems to know why the police left. Apparently the police station is unlocked and the community has volunteers watching it to keep it from being looted or damaged. The stores that can be legally open with the pandemic going on are open. Nobody has seen any weapons or anything scary.

Other than the street fair vibe and part of a park getting dug up for a garden, life is completely normal for them at the moment.

Apparently there was one big jerk with two lesser jerks walking around and some locals told them to cut it out and they did.

Their understanding is the whole "autonomous zone" thing started as a joke that is now mostly regretted. The neighborhood is concerned all the media attention on it makes them sound like they're trying to rebel against the government. They're mostly just bewildered at how the situation evolved the way it did and why the media makes it sound like they drove the police out and are barricading the place off. They say it feels the same as if it was Memorial Day Weekend and Folklife Festival and Camp Jitterbug (which used to be huge and used venues in that area) were happening.

So circling back to prepping; how do we gather usable and reliable intel on an area we may need to pass through during periods of unrest? To me, it sounded like the police had been violently driven out and the place was in chaos till I got back on social media and checked with people I know. Even the POTUS is ranting about it. But to those living there, this is irrelevant at the moment. Their lives aren't impacted at all.
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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by tony d tiger » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:09 am

RoneKiln wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:12 pm
I'm chiming in to back up what Halfapint has reported, and copying what I posted in the "civil war" thread.
I have 3 friends/acquaintances that live in that neighborhood. I have another dozen plus that have been in there several times the last few days. They all consistently say the only thing that's happened is it feels like a street fair has been set up. Despite what the media is portraying, there's no monitoring of who comes and goes. Nobody seems to know why the police left. Apparently the police station is unlocked and the community has volunteers watching it to keep it from being looted or damaged. The stores that can be legally open with the pandemic going on are open. Nobody has seen any weapons or anything scary.

Other than the street fair vibe and part of a park getting dug up for a garden, life is completely normal for them at the moment.

Apparently there was one big jerk with two lesser jerks walking around and some locals told them to cut it out and they did.

Their understanding is the whole "autonomous zone" thing started as a joke that is now mostly regretted. The neighborhood is concerned all the media attention on it makes them sound like they're trying to rebel against the government. They're mostly just bewildered at how the situation evolved the way it did and why the media makes it sound like they drove the police out and are barricading the place off. They say it feels the same as if it was Memorial Day Weekend and Folklife Festival and Camp Jitterbug (which used to be huge and used venues in that area) were happening.

So circling back to prepping; how do we gather usable and reliable intel on an area we may need to pass through during periods of unrest? To me, it sounded like the police had been violently driven out and the place was in chaos till I got back on social media and checked with people I know. Even the POTUS is ranting about it. But to those living there, this is irrelevant at the moment. Their lives aren't impacted at all.
On gathering intel, I would trust what I see with my own eyes, and even then, question the validity of what I'm seeing - is it a ruse? Do they know I'm observing?

Anything seen on television, question the source - does it have an agenda? Can it be independently verified? Is it local coverage or national news agency?

Anything in written form is of lesser value unless from a trusted friend or family member - and even then, I would question the timeliness and accuracy of it.
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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by NT2C » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:50 am

tony d tiger wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:09 am
RoneKiln wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:12 pm
I'm chiming in to back up what Halfapint has reported, and copying what I posted in the "civil war" thread.
I have 3 friends/acquaintances that live in that neighborhood. I have another dozen plus that have been in there several times the last few days. They all consistently say the only thing that's happened is it feels like a street fair has been set up. Despite what the media is portraying, there's no monitoring of who comes and goes. Nobody seems to know why the police left. Apparently the police station is unlocked and the community has volunteers watching it to keep it from being looted or damaged. The stores that can be legally open with the pandemic going on are open. Nobody has seen any weapons or anything scary.

Other than the street fair vibe and part of a park getting dug up for a garden, life is completely normal for them at the moment.

Apparently there was one big jerk with two lesser jerks walking around and some locals told them to cut it out and they did.

Their understanding is the whole "autonomous zone" thing started as a joke that is now mostly regretted. The neighborhood is concerned all the media attention on it makes them sound like they're trying to rebel against the government. They're mostly just bewildered at how the situation evolved the way it did and why the media makes it sound like they drove the police out and are barricading the place off. They say it feels the same as if it was Memorial Day Weekend and Folklife Festival and Camp Jitterbug (which used to be huge and used venues in that area) were happening.

So circling back to prepping; how do we gather usable and reliable intel on an area we may need to pass through during periods of unrest? To me, it sounded like the police had been violently driven out and the place was in chaos till I got back on social media and checked with people I know. Even the POTUS is ranting about it. But to those living there, this is irrelevant at the moment. Their lives aren't impacted at all.
On gathering intel, I would trust what I see with my own eyes, and even then, question the validity of what I'm seeing - is it a ruse? Do they know I'm observing?

Anything seen on television, question the source - does it have an agenda? Can it be independently verified? Is it local coverage or national news agency?

Anything in written form is of lesser value unless from a trusted friend or family member - and even then, I would question the timeliness and accuracy of it.
This here is the crux of the issue as we look at conflicting reports from many different sources and the ZS staff tries to moderate this thread. We have members of this site who have friends or family in the area saying one thing, news reports from major media saying (and showing footage) something different, and friends/family in nearby areas saying something different again. Which to believe, or which combination to believe in making up your own viewpoint, is exceedingly difficult. We are not there, and even if we were each of us would get a viewpoint that was a little different. But we're not there, so we have to decide, "Believe the media, with their propensity to skew things for ratings" or, "Believe non-media reports from others who may have their own agenda or their own skewed viewpoint", some middle ground mashup of "all of the above"? We don't know, but we (read "I" since I'm the only admin here) are leaning a little more towards the mainstream media side of the fence because of video footage and on-camera interviews. That's the closest we can get to seeing it with our own eyes, and no, we don't really trust that it's not edited to look bad and back what the talking heads are preaching. Six of one, half a dozen of another. We just ask that you folks understand we're trying and doing our best with a difficult task.
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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by woodsghost » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:18 am

I'm glad this platform does not decide "what is Truth and what is not," unlike other platforms out there. I think this place is more like the "digital commons" or "digital town square" that was envisioned for the internet.

On prepping: this is a fantastic example of "what may be a disaster for someone is not a disaster for everyone." As rioters got closer to my apartment building (never closer than 1.5 miles) I got ready to leave but many did not. I expect most did not have a place to go, and that is a hint to get a bugout location found now, rather than waiting for "the event" to figure it out. And most people I know who refuse to figure out a bugout location are either physically disabled, have a lot of stuff, or don't have much money and stuff and therefore feel they don't have many options. It might be worth having a discussion about getting bugout locations squared away. Such a location can be a patch of ground in the hills or the couch of a friend outside the affected area.

On the other hand, maybe my neighborhood felt the rioters were no big deal and so what was a disaster for me getting closer was not a disaster for them? Maybe some felt that way, but other neighbors let me know they were gunning up to be ready when the rioters got close, so I KNOW it bothered some people.

Now, the other thing this illustrates is the confusion of information on the ground. Good information is critical to making good decisions in a disaster area. We have many resources for information, and not all are high quality. And as pointed out above, some information is HIGHLY local. We see that in flooding situations too where the experience can be highly localized.

So make sure you have good information gathering skills and make use of those information gathering methods in a disaster!

For me? I have largely abandoned Facebook and have not logged on in months, almost a year. So I need to figure out other methods.
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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by tony d tiger » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:18 am

Amen, Brother.
I would add Fb can be useful for live streaming; but again, be aware the content may be skewed to fit an agenda. Can't beat the real-time window into a situation though.
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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by MPMalloy » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:42 pm

The YT channels I follow are all over this. Here is FerFAL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xum2z1MstqM. I hope this is conforming w/the new rules(?)

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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by jor-el » Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:11 pm

My son, you will travel far, but never be alone, for I am with you, my M14 and battle axe comfort you.

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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by tony d tiger » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:14 am

https://q13fox.com/2020/06/14/marine-ve ... -could-do/

SEATTLE – A Marine veteran working security for a Q13 News crew during what began as a peaceful protest in downtown Seattle has been hailed a hero for his quick action to disarm two rioters of stolen police-issued rifles.

The guard, who has asked not to be named, said his training and experience took over when he saw the AR-15s pulled from two Seattle Police Department SUVs that were vandalized and eventually set on fire.

edit: +deleted link+ sorry about that!

Hopefully, the embed works. It was a local news station video associated with the above story.

I watched this on live broadcast when it happened, glad the newsies circled back to tell the story. That day, I couldn't believe SPD would leave two vehicles unprotected with weapons stored inside. Demonstrates the officers were not thinking the situation through.
Last edited by tony d tiger on Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by boskone » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:56 am

I've seen a few vids of the police gun locks, and they're generally shit. One of the more common types has 3 locking options, 1 electronic and 2 keyed.

One of the keys is an easily-raked wafer core, the kind of thing someone can pick with basically no training. The other key is a handcuff key. The electronic version is bypassable with a rare-earth magnet (a common problem with electronic locks, it seems).

Since part of their job is dealing with criminals and at least questionable activity, police need to step up the security a bit. Let a locksmith loose on your gear, if they can pick or bypass it faster than you can dig out your keys and open it correctly, it shouldn't pass muster.

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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by NT2C » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:02 pm

tony d tiger wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:14 am
https://q13fox.com/2020/06/14/marine-ve ... -could-do/

SEATTLE – A Marine veteran working security for a Q13 News crew during what began as a peaceful protest in downtown Seattle has been hailed a hero for his quick action to disarm two rioters of stolen police-issued rifles.

The guard, who has asked not to be named, said his training and experience took over when he saw the AR-15s pulled from two Seattle Police Department SUVs that were vandalized and eventually set on fire.
<iframe width='640' height='480' frameborder='0' allowfullscreen src='//cdn2.trb.tv/iframe.html?ec=NzYWJpajE6yMgQREclWufnAladfmndzg&pbid=c8cff4cec9d94ae0896f6443af7ee837&pcode=VqYjUyOkWkUw5ULayoUpHorxtcBB'></iframe>

Hopefully, the embed works.
I watched this on live broadcast when it happened, glad the newsies circled back to tell the story. That day, I couldn't believe SPD would leave two vehicles unprotected with weapons stored inside. Demonstrates the officers were not thinking the situation through.
HTML embeds are not allowed on the system. Too insecure.
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Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by RickOShea » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:37 pm

Sounds like one of the patrol rifles was in a bag in the back of the Police SUV.

Garand Thumb talks to Seattle security guard who disarmed two rioters....


NSFW: some spicy language.



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SCBrian
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Posts: 1280
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:56 pm
Location: Charleston, SC

Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by SCBrian » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:21 pm

<Off Topic>
Arguably one of the best things to come out of this is the MEME's about it :rofl:
I tilt at Windmills
BattleVersion wrote:For my Family?...Burn down the world, sure... But, I'm also willing to carry it on my shoulders.
raptor wrote:...I am allergic to bullets;I break out in blood.
jnathan wrote:... you can choke on my Hebrew National.

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Dabster
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Posts: 822
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:20 am

Re: Seattle: The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Post by Dabster » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:30 pm

Can't see where this has been posted yet but it really shows the mayhem and insanity in CHAZ as witnessed by someone much like any of us...

[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q6Jp4CX_kw[/YouTube]
I am not a 'gray man'. I am a brown man, coyote brown. With FDE highlights, of course.

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