The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by raptor2 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:52 pm

PistolPete wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:06 am

Agreed. I wasn't advocating for the approach, I was just stating the sentiment I saw on the ground to help people understand the mentality.
Sorry it was not my intent to imply you were advocating that approach. I knew you were not.

Your observations were informative.

I was simply pontificating...as usual.



We may be getting to politics but I think the logic of a no knock warrant does not violate the no politics rule. If any disagrees please say so.

As noted by Pete no knock warrants have been used increasingly beyond the original scope. That original scope was the apprehension of known violent felons with a high probability of resistance with deadly force. I think Bonnie & Clyde, John Dillinger, Osama Bin laden and Pablo Escobar as justification for a no knock warrant. I do not see where violent individuals like these can be apprehended any other way. In fact I would note that none survived their apprehension.

That need was later expanded to include instance where fragile evidence is likely to be destroyed.

The current incident did involve a no knock warrant but there were 3rd party claims that there was a knock at the door. The fact that Ms. Taylor was responding to the door also seems to substantiate that fact that there was at least a knock on the door. I am not sure the no knock warrant played a part in this incident. Since there was time to answer the door and get on the phone to 911 as well retrieve a firearm and instigate fire.

Still I agree a no knock warrant is something that anyone should be concerned about. If someone broke down my door without warning or ID my response would likely result in problems for all concerned.

I agree "no knock" warrants should be used only in very limited situations and require significant additional supervision and documentation in its application. If for no other reason than to support the people serving the warrant on anyone who is need of such a warrant. If they are big and bad enough to need that type of attention, then there needs to be significant backup and oversight to minimize the possibility of issues.

One final thought each state laws govern the issuance of no knock warrants. Any state that does not want can simply ban them. That point in fact is lost on many. If people want no knock warrants gone they need to look in the mirror to change that...a street march is simply side show drama.
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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by williaty » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:05 pm

M813 wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:01 am
I was under the impression that most "protesters" are unemployed while all the working folks are too busy to get involved in this mess beyond watching the evening news? With historically high unemployment, there are hordes of people available to get involved.

Either way, we're staying clear of densely populated areas as much as possible.
I know way more people than I expected who have been going to the protests this year. Lots of people who have never done a political thing in their lives have been out there in facemasks and helmets for half the summer. Every single one of them works a white-collar job. Most of their jobs are letting them take PTO or Flex Time and leave work early to go to the protests so long as they make sure they're not missing a meeting or leaving a facility unstaffed. Ages of people I know personally range from 22 to 53. None of them are a minority. Most of them are women. At least here, the demographics are different this time which is another reason I don't think this one is going to settle down as quickly as it has in prior years.

Still trying to convince everyone that with so much anti-protestor violence coming from other citizens this is not the time to be out on the street but that's not getting much traction.

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by raptor2 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:01 pm

Video from Seattle last night.
The violence and people committing the violence are clearly evident in this video.

Not NWS video and the comments (like most "social" media) are toxic ... read at your own risk.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1309116728123830275
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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by tony d tiger » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:46 pm

https://tcscannernews.com/2020/09/24/12 ... -released/
Speaking of demographics Olympia,WA:
"Thirteen people were arrested in that area, five men and eight women. All but one of those arrested are age 29 or younger. One 44-year old female was among those arrested, according to arrest records."
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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by M813 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:50 am

My purpose in inquiring about the demographics of the rioters and protesters was to try to gain some insight into who I should be concerned about while moving around.

The answer seems to be "anybody."

I have opinions about the white, white collar protesters but they are political so I shan't share them here.

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by PistolPete » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:57 am

To add another bit of data- the 4 people who chose to escalate the level of violence in my area Weds night were a young black dude, a young white woman and two young white dudes. The article doesn't say whether they were currently employed or not.
https://www.kmov.com/news/2-arrested-in ... 7fb7a.html
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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by williaty » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:18 am

M813 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:50 am
My purpose in inquiring about the demographics of the rioters and protesters was to try to gain some insight into who I should be concerned about while moving around.

The answer seems to be "anybody."

I have opinions about the white, white collar protesters but they are political so I shan't share them here.
I'll definitely agree with the "anybody".

I suspect that a critical difference in protestor demographic has been the rise of the video recording cell phone. 20 years ago, we heard about interactions where potentially someone was abused or killed by the authorities when maybe it wasn't justified but hearing isn't all that compelling for most people and it was easy to accept that the police knew what they were doing and were right to do it. 10 years ago, we started to see videos where it looked like someone had been killed or abused when maybe it wasn't justified and seeing is a hell of a lot more convincing for most people but it wasn't that many videos and it wasn't that often so outrage had time to die down between incidents. Now, everyone has a video camera in their pocket, it seems, and the flood of videos of people being abused and shot just never seems to end and that's getting the attention of just about everyone, regardless of demographics, so a few non-typical protestors started showing up. Couple that with pandemic stress and you had the protests early this summer. Then those million cameras started catching the interactions between police and protestors and suddenly even the non-minority, working white collar demographic is seeing people who look just like them being shot with wooden bullets, hit with billy clubs, and sprayed with chemical weapons. That really hits home, which drives more people out to the protests because it's not longer a matter of defending someone else's rights, it's about you.

Anyway, that's based off talking to more protestors than I thought I'd ever know. All of them talk about seeing something, and it's not the same thing for any two of them mostly, and that motivating them to go to the protests for the first time. Maybe that's unique to my location but I doubt it.

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by M813 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:23 am

I don't put credence in any cell phone video coverage I see. The camera has always started rolling *after* the cause of confrontation and we're always missing that crucial datapoint that explains *why* someone is getting shot or getting the beat-down.

Too many times recently, the "previous 10 minutes of footage" that explains everything has been aired weeks or months after the incident and riots are well underway by then. It's too late.

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by PistolPete » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:53 am

M813 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:23 am
I don't put credence in any cell phone video coverage I see. The camera has always started rolling *after* the cause of confrontation and we're always missing that crucial datapoint that explains *why* someone is getting shot or getting the beat-down.
It's good to be skeptical of video for sure. Whether it's FB Live, Youtube, the local news channel or CNN, clips are often edited to promote a certain point of view. We see this over and over.

A great example was a friend of mine, who last year absolutely knew St Louis was a Mad Max hellscape because of the clips shown on the news. Then she attended a rally with me and realized it was nothing like what was being shown on the tele. Heck, during the Ferguson demonstrations / riots, my boss (who lived on the east coast) was under the assumption that the entire city was in flames because of national news coverage. He asked if I needed to take time off of work because of it. I laughed and said that's a tiny area of the city and didn't put my safety during my commute in danger.

So always be skeptical! If you talk to some people it's always the protesters initiating violence. If you talk to some people it's always the cops initiating violence. From my personal experience, neither is is remotely true, but there are tons of videos to try to convince people it's one or the other- videos that are edited to make a point, not edited to show the full truth. Beware the ideological zealot, no matter what they are pushing on you.
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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by raptor2 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:55 am

PistolPete wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:53 am
M813 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:23 am
I don't put credence in any cell phone video coverage I see. The camera has always started rolling *after* the cause of confrontation and we're always missing that crucial datapoint that explains *why* someone is getting shot or getting the beat-down.
It's good to be skeptical of video for sure. Whether it's FB Live, Youtube, the local news channel or CNN, clips are often edited to promote a certain point of view. We see this over and over.
Very true the incident in Wisconsin is a prime example of this. The cell phone video that was pushed by the MSM was a single snip of the action.

This video (put together by the kid's attorney) tells a very different story by using several videos. An argument can be made that this video is biased but because of this fact it makes a great example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4dhPM9 ... 3FightBack
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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by PistolPete » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:43 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:55 am
Very true the incident in Wisconsin is a prime example of this. The cell phone video that was pushed by the MSM was a single snip of the action.

This video (put together by the kid's attorney) tells a very different story by using several videos. An argument can be made that this video is biased but because of this fact it makes a great example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4dhPM9 ... 3FightBack
Lol, that video in your link has already been pulled by YouTube censors. A few times, every time it's posted it's getting flagged. May I recommend Bitchute as a more reliable source of footage? (in general, any source but YouTube is more likely to have uncensored videos- Bitchute, DTube, Full30 are some alternative that seem to be gaining traction) The video is there.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/sHRuSPCppHvN/

[Edited for commentary]
The whole Kyle Rittenhouse issue is a great example of what can happen if you execute your right to self defense. Because Kyle put himself in a position where he felt his life was in danger and reacted with deadly force, he was arrested, charged and that moment will flavor his life moving forward. It comes with a heavy cost.
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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by boskone » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:27 pm

The YouTube link still works for me, just has a bunch of warnings.

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:18 pm

The latest video from City Prepping:



What is the herd/hive mind opinion of the info here? It seems solid to me, but, as always, crowd source & collate.

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by boskone » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:48 pm

I don't think most of it applies to me, but that probably goes without saying as the channel is "city prepping", and I don't live in one.

But I have been seeing a lot of articles comparing current conditions to the Great Depression; the 1-2 punch of an incipient recession plus COVID's done a number, and Wall Street is as nutty as ever...though in this case, I actually think it's less Wall Street itself and more "hobbiest investors" with too much time on their hands. (People invested heavily in Hertz, for god's sake.)

Texas will probably weather such an event better than most places, but that would be purely relative. I think I'm going to buckle down on getting this house sold and an RV and tow vehicle acquired, so that I can be more mobile if needed. Worse come to best and nothing much happens...I wanted an RV and tow vehicle for mobility anyway.

It is times like this I really wish Ford had been a bit more on the ball with a PHEV pickup. Being able to charge my vehicle--even to the tune of only 10mi on a good day--from RV-mounted solar panels could be a godsend in a depression.


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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by MPMalloy » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:32 am

More vids from City Prepping and Angry Prepper. I find that both are spot on in thir respective topics. The part about layering your defenses is exactly what I learned.




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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by aikorob » Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:25 am

PistolPete wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:43 pm


[Edited for commentary]
The whole Kyle Rittenhouse issue is a great example of what can happen if you execute your right to self defense. Because Kyle put himself in a position where he felt his life was in danger and reacted with deadly force, he was arrested, charged and that moment will flavor his life moving forward. It comes with a heavy cost.

In the incident here in GA earlier in the year. The defendants are claiming self defense because Arbury grabbed for the gun. Ga law says that self defense would be a valid claim....................except that you can't put yourself in the situation where you need self defense. In other words--- had the defendant confronted Arbury when he exited the construction site; he might have a claim----but because he followed Arbury and then confronted him, there is no valid self defense.
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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by NT2C » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:28 am

aikorob wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:25 am
PistolPete wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:43 pm


[Edited for commentary]
The whole Kyle Rittenhouse issue is a great example of what can happen if you execute your right to self defense. Because Kyle put himself in a position where he felt his life was in danger and reacted with deadly force, he was arrested, charged and that moment will flavor his life moving forward. It comes with a heavy cost.

In the incident here in GA earlier in the year. The defendants are claiming self defense because Arbury grabbed for the gun. Ga law says that self defense would be a valid claim....................except that you can't put yourself in the situation where you need self defense. In other words--- had the defendant confronted Arbury when he exited the construction site; he might have a claim----but because he followed Arbury and then confronted him, there is no valid self defense.
Wisconsin law says differently. Wisconsin Updated Statutes 2019 939.48(2)
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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by M813 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:04 am

The "Choose your Fate" video by City Prepper seems to contain no new revelations. It's not "wrong" there's just nothing new in it that we haven't already discussed.

I am purchasing additional propane and tanks for my home and boat. Additional jugs for fuel and water. I have shifted my boat to a new position that allows for an even speedier departure if necessary.

I am turning to stockpiling repair supplies to fix things at home and on the boat because I expect stores to be shuttered or at least out of inventory during a period of unrest. (Plumbing fittings, plywood, nails, screws, various hardware, spare pumps, service kits and solar array controllers)

As election day nears, we will top off our food supplies. I've been stockpiling dry goods for months now, rice being my preferred staple. Our fall garden is producing but winter will be along soon, and the garden will be done and of no help. We have many suburban deer running around the neighborhood and nearby parks. I hope it doesn't come to that but I'll do it if necessary. Fishing is still a possibility for fall and much of winter.

A bugout by boat will be an interesting situation- Temperatures be getting cold near and after election day. At best, I would be uncomfortable. At worst, it could be downright dangerous but the most of the powerboats in my area will be laid up for the winter and inaccessible so I shouldn't be facing a "Waterworld" situation. My local waters should be empty except for fishing and possibly commercial traffic. All I know is, I'd rather freeze my a$$ off and avoid conflict by hiding out on the water than being killed or thrown out of my warm home by thugs.

In the event that I can safely remain in my home over the winter the solar panels and backup battery will drive my pellet stove and during periods where there simply isn't enough sun to keep up with demand, there is propane backup...in the event that public utilities go offline.

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by raptor2 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:39 am

M813 wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:04 am
A bugout by boat will be an interesting situation- Temperatures be getting cold near and after election day. At best, I would be uncomfortable. At worst, it could be downright dangerous but the most of the powerboats in my area will be laid up for the winter and inaccessible so I shouldn't be facing a "Waterworld" situation. My local waters should be empty except for fishing and possibly commercial traffic. All I know is, I'd rather freeze my a$$ off and avoid conflict by hiding out on the water than being killed or thrown out of my warm home by thugs.
What you should now to plan for a boat bug out is review your chart for areas were you can simply find a sheltered anchorage.

There are likely many areas within an hour's dingy ride of civilization where you can simply anchor out. This would save fuel, energy and wear and tear on the vessel. It would also be safer for you than heading out to sea.
What you are looking for is an area with enough water depth to allow your boat to stay there preferably some trees to hide the mast and no road way access within a qtr of a mile. Ideally mud flats, not sand banks surrounding it. Sand is easy to traverse mud much less so. Be sure to black out the vessel at night. Simple tin foil covering inside the window will work niceley. Obviously deck, spreader, anchor and/or navigation lights use should be minimized.

If you are near the ICW you may have several such coves and typically barge companies may tie up in those coves so be aware of that complication. I would not plan in using those sites long term. Though if you get permission to tie up to a barge in such a cove that would not be bad short term.

Another alternative is to find a marina that is far enough away from likely trouble spots and move the boat there. You then have a BOL in another area for the cost of slip rent.
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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by MPMalloy » Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:28 am

M813 wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:04 am
The "Choose your Fate" video by City Prepper seems to contain no new revelations. It's not "wrong" there's just nothing new in it that we haven't already discussed.
Agreed. Out of the prep chans I sub to on YT, City is one of the most reasonable ones.
M813 wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:04 am
All I know is, I'd rather freeze my a$$ off and avoid conflict by hiding out on the water than being killed or thrown out of my warm home by thugs.
If I still had Lucy the Van, I wouldn't be half as worried as I am.

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by PistolPete » Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:50 am

Well, the chance for a contested election just jumped with the release of the Project Veritas video. People on both sides aren't going to trust the results, which increases the chance there will be widespread violence.

It's a real shame we haven't invested in real election security in the US. It opens the door to voter fraud allegations, even when it doesn't happen. Man, it's an interesting year. I think I'm gonna take November 4th off in case things go off the rails.
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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by M813 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:23 pm

@Raptor- Yeah, I plan on trying to hide in the uninhabited coves and creeks rather than heading out to open water first. If I find myself being harassed, then I will consider options further afield. I have paper charts of the whole area in case GPS access becomes a problem. I have a sextant but I'm not great with it.

I have a few marina options that are far off the beaten path. I considered these but I'm unsure how we'd be received during times of unrest. Perhaps welcome, perhaps an untrusted burden.

@PistolPete Election security has been discouraged under the guise of disenfranchisement and/or bigotry...but I guess you know that already.

When you say "Take November 4th off" I think street violence will occur a week or 3 after election day. There will be delays in reporting the results due to mail in ballots and absentee ballots. "Certified" will start trickling in and then the cries of "foul" will start, followed by the violence. I've decided that I'm not saying anything to my employer. I have gobs and gobs of vacation time. If things get heated, I'm simply going to send my boss an email telling him that I'm out "indefinitely" until things calm down.

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Re: The Coming Civil War - (Warning: No Politics)

Post by raptor2 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:49 pm

M813 wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:23 pm
@Raptor- Yeah, I plan on trying to hide in the uninhabited coves and creeks rather than heading out to open water first. If I find myself being harassed, then I will consider options further afield. I have paper charts of the whole area in case GPS access becomes a problem. I have a sextant but I'm not great with it.

I have a few marina options that are far off the beaten path. I considered these but I'm unsure how we'd be received during times of unrest. Perhaps welcome, perhaps an untrusted burden.
Plan with the alternate marina now. If nothing else it may not be needed and it will cost you only a reservation fee.

My celestial navigation is rusty from disuse. That said I have 40 years of practice with it and will say it has not been difficult for me to regain the skills. Learning from scratch is much more difficult. The good news is that mariners for centuries navigated with just a noon site and knowing the latitude. That is an easy to master DIY skill. I would concentrate on that skill for now.

The other thing is the ancient ( at least in modern times) art of using an RDF. This is more useful close to land it is likely that broadcast radio will remain operative. The antenna positions are marked on charts. A little DF skill can be very useful. The problem will be finding a decent RDF.

Finally for coastal use a good handheld compass and chart skills are really all that is needed. Davis makes a good one for $25 to $35 and marine binocs frequently have a built in compass. I recommend that for coastal work. The binocs make the item ranged very easy to see and relate to the chart. This along with a dividers and a parallel ruler is all your really need for coastal work. Yes GPS is a lot easier and more precise but you use what you got.

PistolPete wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:50 am
Well, the chance for a contested election just jumped with the release of the Project Veritas video. People on both sides aren't going to trust the results, which increases the chance there will be widespread violence.
I do not think this will spur any additional violence.
In fact I would be shocked if anyone is surprised by this revelation. There has been open bragging and crowing about the success of such programs for years. The producer of these films simply takes facts which most people know is true and prove it is true with video.

https://www.news-journal.com/news/polic ... 54634.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/20/poli ... index.html

IMO the opposition will not be surprised and the supporters will justify the actions as "necessary" for whatever reason is convenient at the time.
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